The Debate is over! Concrete reason why Clemens will be starter!

[villain_the_foe]

This is a comment that I quoted from "Dirtstar" from Jetsinsider.com. This is the most compelling and thought out "logical" reason why Clemens will be starting this year.

Here you go.

You wanted a legit debate, so here it is: Chad and Clemens both played under the same set of horrible circumstances in 2007 -- why is that those horrible conditions can excuse Chad's poor play as an 8-year veteran, but not Kellen's as a first-time starter? why is it unfair to criticize Chad for his horrible decision-making, but it's OK to pass judgement on Clemens after only 7 games? why can you criticize Clemens' pocket presence, even when you acknowledge he was running for his life, but fail to mention how poised he looked in the 4th quarter against the Ravens or throughout the Redskins game?

then you go on to say that Clemens' 3 wins should be dismissed on the assertion that the "defense actually won those games." while i will grant you that the defense improved after the Bye week, you also have to admit that Clemens never played with a healthy Coles/Cotchery tandem -- and you have said repeatedly how important offensive playmakers are to a QB's success, so i'm assuming that applies to Clemens as well as Chad.

back to the Jets' 3 wins with Clemens: NOT ONE POINT in those games was scored by the defense/special teams. in fact, the ONLY time that the Jets scored a non-offensive TD with Clemens as the QB was a kickoff return by Leon against the Redskins, a game which the Jets lost. so yeah, the defense may have improved, but someone still had to go out and put the points on the board. Kellen Clemens lead the Jets' offense to more victories and more points per game than Chad, despite the lack of the abovementioned playmakers (which, again, you say are very important to a QBs success).

Chad, on the other hand received very valuable contributions from the special teams/defense. the Jets' lone victory with Chad at the helm came against the Juggernaut Miami Dolphins, and he can thank a Leon Washington kickoff return for that one. Chad's offense also got help in the game against the Giants, from Kerry Rhodes (fumble return) and Leon again (kickoff return). alas, Chad also tossed TWO fourth-quarter interceptions, one of which was returned for a TD, that essentially put the game away. speaking of which, Chad also threw game-ending INTs against Buffalo and against the Bengals, and generally looked dreadful when running the 2-minute drill.

i find it curious that in this regard, the young inexperienced QB with a "lack of pocket presence" showed far more poise and success than the veteran Captain Intangibles. Clemens, however, lead two last-minute, game-tying drives against top-10 defenses (Wash, Pitt), and two OT game-winning drives. and that's without going into the Baltimore game or OT of the Washington game, because i'm trying to steer clear of the "what ifs."

so there you have it. you wanted a debate? the above is why i think that, given that they played under the same horrible QB conditions, and given that Clemens produced more wins, more PPG, and played better in clutch situations, there is a compelling case as to why Kellen Clemens should be the Jets starting QB in '08.

[BroadwayJoe12]

I don't mean to rain on your post, becuase i like it..a lot. However, you are assuming of course that you are writing to a sensible crowd. There will be two types of answers that you will get; A) right on, screw noodle arm captain intangibles etc. Chad is our boy, our defense played so much better..followed by stats that are skewed to make him look like he's the more qualified qb etc. There's really nothing to say but we'll just have to wait and see. Everyone seems pretty firmly entrenched on who they stand behind, however it seems the pennington supporters would rather pennington be the starting QB than the jets actually succeed.

[lancemehl]

This is a comment that I quoted from "Dirtstar" from Jetsinsider.com. This is the most compelling and thought out "logical" reason why Clemens will be starting this year.

Here you go.

You wanted a legit debate, so here it is: Chad and Clemens both played under the same set of horrible circumstances in 2007 -- why is that those horrible conditions can excuse Chad's poor play as an 8-year veteran, but not Kellen's as a first-time starter? why is it unfair to criticize Chad for his horrible decision-making, but it's OK to pass judgement on Clemens after only 7 games? why can you criticize Clemens' pocket presence, even when you acknowledge he was running for his life, but fail to mention how poised he looked in the 4th quarter against the Ravens or throughout the Redskins game?

then you go on to say that Clemens' 3 wins should be dismissed on the assertion that the "defense actually won those games." while i will grant you that the defense improved after the Bye week, you also have to admit that Clemens never played with a healthy Coles/Cotchery tandem -- and you have said repeatedly how important offensive playmakers are to a QB's success, so i'm assuming that applies to Clemens as well as Chad.

back to the Jets' 3 wins with Clemens: NOT ONE POINT in those games was scored by the defense/special teams. in fact, the ONLY time that the Jets scored a non-offensive TD with Clemens as the QB was a kickoff return by Leon against the Redskins, a game which the Jets lost. so yeah, the defense may have improved, but someone still had to go out and put the points on the board. Kellen Clemens lead the Jets' offense to more victories and more points per game than Chad, despite the lack of the abovementioned playmakers (which, again, you say are very important to a QBs success).

Chad, on the other hand received very valuable contributions from the special teams/defense. the Jets' lone victory with Chad at the helm came against the Juggernaut Miami Dolphins, and he can thank a Leon Washington kickoff return for that one. Chad's offense also got help in the game against the Giants, from Kerry Rhodes (fumble return) and Leon again (kickoff return). alas, Chad also tossed TWO fourth-quarter interceptions, one of which was returned for a TD, that essentially put the game away. speaking of which, Chad also threw game-ending INTs against Buffalo and against the Bengals, and generally looked dreadful when running the 2-minute drill.

i find it curious that in this regard, the young inexperienced QB with a "lack of pocket presence" showed far more poise and success than the veteran Captain Intangibles. Clemens, however, lead two last-minute, game-tying drives against top-10 defenses (Wash, Pitt), and two OT game-winning drives. and that's without going into the Baltimore game or OT of the Washington game, because i'm trying to steer clear of the "what ifs."

so there you have it. you wanted a debate? the above is why i think that, given that they played under the same horrible QB conditions, and given that Clemens produced more wins, more PPG, and played better in clutch situations, there is a compelling case as to why Kellen Clemens should be the Jets starting QB in '08.

Good argument but the debate will be over when mangini names the starter on opening day. I think it'll be 10.but who knows, he might read that post

[jetfuel]

This is a comment that I quoted from "Dirtstar" from Jetsinsider.com. This is the most compelling and thought out "logical" reason why Clemens will be starting this year.

Here you go.

You wanted a legit debate, so here it is: Chad and Clemens both played under the same set of horrible circumstances in 2007 -- why is that those horrible conditions can excuse Chad's poor play as an 8-year veteran, but not Kellen's as a first-time starter? why is it unfair to criticize Chad for his horrible decision-making, but it's OK to pass judgement on Clemens after only 7 games? why can you criticize Clemens' pocket presence, even when you acknowledge he was running for his life, but fail to mention how poised he looked in the 4th quarter against the Ravens or throughout the Redskins game?

then you go on to say that Clemens' 3 wins should be dismissed on the assertion that the "defense actually won those games." while i will grant you that the defense improved after the Bye week, you also have to admit that Clemens never played with a healthy Coles/Cotchery tandem -- and you have said repeatedly how important offensive playmakers are to a QB's success, so i'm assuming that applies to Clemens as well as Chad.

back to the Jets' 3 wins with Clemens: NOT ONE POINT in those games was scored by the defense/special teams. in fact, the ONLY time that the Jets scored a non-offensive TD with Clemens as the QB was a kickoff return by Leon against the Redskins, a game which the Jets lost. so yeah, the defense may have improved, but someone still had to go out and put the points on the board. Kellen Clemens lead the Jets' offense to more victories and more points per game than Chad, despite the lack of the abovementioned playmakers (which, again, you say are very important to a QBs success).

Chad, on the other hand received very valuable contributions from the special teams/defense. the Jets' lone victory with Chad at the helm came against the Juggernaut Miami Dolphins, and he can thank a Leon Washington kickoff return for that one. Chad's offense also got help in the game against the Giants, from Kerry Rhodes (fumble return) and Leon again (kickoff return). alas, Chad also tossed TWO fourth-quarter interceptions, one of which was returned for a TD, that essentially put the game away. speaking of which, Chad also threw game-ending INTs against Buffalo and against the Bengals, and generally looked dreadful when running the 2-minute drill.

i find it curious that in this regard, the young inexperienced QB with a "lack of pocket presence" showed far more poise and success than the veteran Captain Intangibles. Clemens, however, lead two last-minute, game-tying drives against top-10 defenses (Wash, Pitt), and two OT game-winning drives. and that's without going into the Baltimore game or OT of the Washington game, because i'm trying to steer clear of the "what ifs."

so there you have it. you wanted a debate? the above is why i think that, given that they played under the same horrible QB conditions, and given that Clemens produced more wins, more PPG, and played better in clutch situations, there is a compelling case as to why Kellen Clemens should be the Jets starting QB in '08.

That's all warm and fuzzy but last time I checked the Head Coach is named Mangini, not dirtbag or dirtstar. Everyone can argue from here to the end of the Earth and none of it matters. By the way, Clemens threw a few big INT's late in the game himself. He also threw 10 on the year with 5 TD's. Blah Blah Blah! To try to pick which guy did better last year and who will be the starter from that mess is a joke. Clemens did not impress me at all personally and he certainly diod not earn anything through his play last year. This guy obviously wants Clemens to start but he is not the coach so his opinion does not matter and neither does yours or mine. They will battle it out in camp and we'll see who wins. My money is on Chad.

[Jetfan13]

:yawn:

SOS..Clemens won't even be #2 by the end of the year..face it, he blows

[#27TheDominator]

I didn't see anything in '07 that would make me lean towards either. They both sucked. The most compelling reason Clemens will be starting is the number on his birth certificate. There is no reason to think he should get the nod if he continues to suck in camp and Pennington steps back up to NFL starting caliber QB level.

[L.I.MikeBleedsGreen]

Kellen >> Chad

It's that simple Folks

[DMaynard]

They will battle it out in camp and we'll see who wins. My money is on Chad.

I hope for your sake it is disposable income. Don't do anything as silly as to borrow it.

[Sperm Edwards]

That's all warm and fuzzy but last time I checked the Head Coach is named Mangini, not dirtbag or dirtstar. Everyone can argue from here to the end of the Earth and none of it matters. By the way, Clemens threw a few big INT's late in the game himself. He also threw 10 on the year with 5 TD's. Blah Blah Blah! To try to pick which guy did better last year and who will be the starter from that mess is a joke. Clemens did not impress me at all personally and he certainly diod not earn anything through his play last year. This guy obviously wants Clemens to start but he is not the coach so his opinion does not matter and neither does yours or mine. They will battle it out in camp and we'll see who wins. My money is on Chad.

So if the crappy/injured receivers didn't drop passes that landed in their hands or chest, then Clemens is a better QB? He threw a catchable TD 3x at the end of the Baltimore game & the stat sheet only shows 0 TD's and 1 interception. An interception that went through a Jets WR's hands and into that of a defender's. Two more came when he was brought in cold off the bench at the end of the 4th quarter into must-pass situations after Chad led us to 3 points in 55+ minutes. And one of those two was a hail-mary pass at the end (hardly equal to a pick-6 in a close game).

It's not just interceptions (though that always sucks). Three of Chad's were returned for 4th quarter touchdowns. Most of his picks seemed to come in close games where we were winning or the game was within 7 points. He's a choke artist, and a veteran should be over that by now.

If the most compelling argument for Pennington is that his stats as a seasoned veteran with mostly healthy starting WR's were less awful than those Clemens put up in his first 7 games with mostly injured/backup WR's, then you win there.

They were both lousy. But the offense scored 5 points per game less with Pennington & he only had 1 win (after blowing 3 or 4 by himself) in 8 starts (9 games). His big upside is that if all goes well he might not be a liability. Well that sucks.

He will have to look like Joe Montana in camp to justify giving the starting job to.

[slats]

The coaching staff turned the page on Chad last year and it's now Kellen's job to lose. Statistically he did poorly last year, and looked rattled at times, but overall I though he did a lot more to win games than Pennington did with the same team. I though it was a respectable job from a young QB on a really bad offense.

He's no lock, but it's his job to lose. That's my humble opinion. The only reason to go with Chad would be because it's "safer." He's a game manager with a low ceiling who shouldn't lose too many games on his own. But with the owner already committing to Tangini thru '09, there's little reason for Eric to go the safe route. He's much better off investigating the higher ceiling that Clemens offers.

[BwanaZulia]

It think the debate ended last year when Chad lost his job to Kellen.

Kellen didn't do anything to prove he can't get better or can't progress.

BZ

[Jetfan13]

Kellen >> Chad

It's that simple Folks

Wake up Mike, that is not the case at all. You should have said:

Kellen sucks>Chad

[#27TheDominator]

Typical Jetnation Sesame Street thread:

Sucks < Suckier < Suckiest

[Sperm Edwards]

How can anyone actually want us to field a QB whose average completion is under 10 yards (including yards after the catch) and who threw for under 200 yards in 14 of his last 23 games?

The

Jets

do

not

score

points

with

Pennington

as

the

QB.

[jetfuel]

So if the crappy/injured receivers didn't drop passes that landed in their hands or chest, then Clemens is a better QB? He threw a catchable TD 3x at the end of the Baltimore game & the stat sheet only shows 0 TD's and 1 interception. An interception that went through a Jets WR's hands and into that of a defender's. Two more came when he was brought in cold off the bench at the end of the 4th quarter into must-pass situations after Chad led us to 3 points in 55+ minutes. And one of those two was a hail-mary pass at the end (hardly equal to a pick-6 in a close game).

It's not just interceptions (though that always sucks). Three of Chad's were returned for 4th quarter touchdowns. Most of his picks seemed to come in close games where we were winning or the game was within 7 points. He's a choke artist, and a veteran should be over that by now.

If the most compelling argument for Pennington is that his stats as a seasoned veteran with mostly healthy starting WR's were less awful than those Clemens put up in his first 7 games with mostly injured/backup WR's, then you win there.

They were both lousy. But the offense scored 5 points per game less with Pennington & he only had 1 win (after blowing 3 or 4 by himself) in 8 starts (9 games). His big upside is that if all goes well he might not be a liability. Well that sucks.

He will have to look like Joe Montana in camp to justify giving the starting job to.

Okay Coach Mangini - it's your call

[jetfuel]

It think the debate ended last year when Chad lost his job to Kellen.

Kellen didn't do anything to prove he can't get better or can't progress.

BZ

Is that why they went back to Pennington at the end of the year even though Mangini claims Clemens was healthy?

[Sperm Edwards]

Okay Coach Mangini - it's your call

It's not my call. I just think sticking with him is a step in the wrong direction after an off-season of so many improvements. But rest assured, when Mangini calls for my opinion I'll give it to him.

[jetfuel]

How can anyone actually want us to field a QB whose average completion is under 10 yards (including yards after the catch) and who threw for under 200 yards in 14 of his last 23 games?

The

Jets

do

not

score

points

with

Pennington

as

the

QB.

Chad 6.79 YPA

Kellen 6.12 YPA

Just showing how unimportant all that is

[bitonti]

Chad sucked in 2007 but has had better years. There were years like 2002 when Chad was great.

Kellen Clemens has not had any better years than last year. And he was mediocre at best. At worst he sucked s--t. And we can blame Adrien Clarke but the truth is amazing players excel regardless of their supporting cast, clemens isn't amazing.

so what we are left with are two manager types, neither superstar QBs, neither franchise QBs.

Chad's resume is better and the Jets are built to win now.

All this being said Kellen Clemens will get every chance to win the job, and he should win it.

But if he doesn't, I don't want to hear crap from the Clemens fan-boys. This guy embarassed the franchise on Thanksgiving national TV, he has what, 3 wins total? If he can't beat Chad out in a preseason training camp competition then he's worthless. As much as everyone hates Chad, that much must be agreed upon. If Chad is crap and Kellen can't beat out crap, what does that make Kellen?

[DMaynard]

I guess the debate isn't over. We might have to actually wait and see what happens.

[#27TheDominator]

Chad 6.79 YPA

Kellen 6.12 YPA

Just showing how unimportant all that is

How many points the offense scores is unimportant?

Chad sucked in 2007 but has had better years. There were years like 2002 when Chad was great.

Kellen Clemens has not had any better years than last year. And he was mediocre at best. At worst he sucked s--t. And we can blame Adrien Clarke but the truth is amazing players excel regardless of their supporting cast, clemens isn't amazing.

so what we are left with are two manager types, neither superstar QBs, neither franchise QBs.

Chad's resume is better and the Jets are built to win now.

All this being said Kellen Clemens will get every chance to win the job, and he should win it.

But if he doesn't, I don't want to hear crap from the Clemens fan-boys. This guy embarassed the franchise on Thanksgiving national TV, he has what, 3 wins total? If he can't beat Chad out in a preseason training camp competition then he's worthless. As much as everyone hates Chad, that much must be agreed upon. If Chad is crap and Kellen can't beat out crap, what does that make Kellen?

Dead on. Clemens should have at least a slight nod going into the preseason, but he hasn't done anything to warrant being handed the job.

[jetfuel]

It's not my call. I just think sticking with him is a step in the wrong direction after an off-season of so many improvements. But rest assured, when Mangini calls for my opinion I'll give it to him.

I hear ya even if I disagree... I just don't think Mangini sees it the way the Clemens supporters do. He replaced him with Pennington towards the end of the year again when Kellen was supposedly able to play and I don't think the brass was all that impressed with Clemens. Whether that's fair or not doesn't matter because it's their decision. I'm all for starting Clemens IF he shows me something with the new OL and I think that will be Mangini's stance on it. Maybe I'm wrong. I just want the damn team to win. Bring Vinny back for all I care.

[jetfuel]

How many points the offense scores is unimportant?

Dead on. Clemens should have at least a slight nod going into the preseason, but he hasn't done anything to warrant being handed the job.

I was talking about YPA and YPC as being overrated stats categories. Brady has a career 7.24 YPA. Scoring does matter of course. Did Clemens light it up or something? The Offense was horrendous last year no matter who was behind Center.

I don't know if I give him a nod from what he did last year but he does deserve a fair shot to battle it out for the job.

[L.I.MikeBleedsGreen]

Wake up Mike, that is not the case at all. You should have said:

Kellen sucks>Chad

The whole team sucked last year,But kellen has shown he can get better with the right weapons placed around him AL, He has a real good upside to his game.

Typical Jetnation Sesame Street thread:

Sucks < Suckier < Suckiest

Sesame Street Rocks Dom and you know it, Chads' last three years Blew> Blew Harder > Arm Blown off

How can anyone actually want us to field a QB whose average completion is under 10 yards (including yards after the catch) and who threw for under 200 yards in 14 of his last 23 games?

The

Jets

do

not

score

points

with

Pennington

as

the

QB.

Thank

You

Sperm

When

Will

they

Learn

[#27TheDominator]

I hear ya even if I disagree... I just don't think Mangini sees it the way the Clemens supporters do. He replaced him with Pennington towards the end of the year again when Kellen was supposedly able to play and I don't think the brass was all that impressed with Clemens. Whether that's fair or not doesn't matter because it's their decision. I'm all for starting Clemens IF he shows me something with the new OL and I think that will be Mangini's stance on it. Maybe I'm wrong. I just want the damn team to win. Bring Vinny back for all I care.

That's at least the second time you've mentioned this and I dispute that claim. The only time Clemens didn't play was after he was nearly killed against New England. He threw the one pass that got picked while being crushed. Missed the rest of the game and they sat him the next week against the Titans. He may have been "ready to play" against the Tenn, but he had missed a good portion of the week's practice which is why I recall him being sat. They may not be that impressed with Clemens (I don't see how they could be) but they never benched him or sat him based upon performance.

[DMaynard]

The whole team sucked last year,But kellen has shown he can get better with the right weapons placed around him AL, He has a real good upside to his game.

Sesame Street Rocks Dom and you know it, Chads' last three years Blew> Blew Harder > Arm Blown off

Thank

You

Sperm

When

Will

they

Learn

N

E

V

E

R

[jetfuel]

That's at least the second time you've mentioned this and I dispute that claim. The only time Clemens didn't play was after he was nearly killed against New England. He threw the one pass that got picked while being crushed. Missed the rest of the game and they sat him the next week against the Titans. He may have been "ready to play" against the Tenn, but he had missed a good portion of the week's practice which is why I recall him being sat. They may not be that impressed with Clemens (I don't see how they could be) but they never benched him or sat him based upon performance.

He would have played that Tennessee game if they were really that impressed with him. Your starting QB doesn't sit just because he missed a few practices. Not a clear cut starter at least. You can ignore that but it is what it is. I guess the main thing is, Mangini will make the ultimate call anyway so we will all be waiting for the answer until that happens. I'll be fine with whoever they choose.

[#27TheDominator]

He would have played that Tennessee game if they were really that impressed with him. Your starting QB doesn't sit just because he missed a few practices. Not a clear cut starter at least. You can ignore that but it is what it is. I guess the main thing is, Mangini will make the ultimate call anyway so we will all be waiting for the answer until that happens. I'll be fine with whoever they choose.

Nope, he was hurt and did not practice all week. He was limited in practice the entire week (Wed, Thurs, Fri) leading up to the KC game. He obviously wasn't ready to play against Tenn. Thanks for making me look up something I already knew! Thank God rotoworld makes it extremely simple. During a lost season you do not start injured players whether they "give you a better chance to win or not". Especially not younger players that you are hoping will lead you in the future. Don't make the mistake of thinking he was "ready to play" just because he was active.

They'll have a QB competition, that's for sure. I just hope they both play better than last year. At least one had better or else this team will be tough to watch.

Kellen Clemens (ribs, questionable) was limited in practice Friday.

www.nyjets.com Dec 28

Kellen Clemens is active for the Jets in Week 16 against the Titans.A surprise given that Clemens barely practiced all week, although it remains unclear if he'll start over Chad Pennington. New York's inactives include P Ben Graham, QB Marques Tuiasosopo, WR Chris Davis, CB Andre Dyson, TE Sean Ryan, G Adrien Clarke, DT Kareem Brown and OL Jacob Bender.

www.rotoworld.com

Newsday is reporting that Kellen Clemens "looked good" during pre-game warmups Sunday and might start, or at least be active, Sunday against the Titans.

Clemens barely practiced during the week, but the Jets have said he gives him their best chance to win and figures to get the nod if he's indeed healthy enough. Every indication these past few days pointed to Chad Pennington starting, but Pennington was not on the field for pre-game warmups

Newsday Dec 23

Kellen Clemens threw longer and more fluid passes at practice Friday, but still isn't expected to start in Week 16.

The Jets are being intentionally vague about Clemens' rib injury, but he seemed to favor his left shoulder as he threw at practice, and didn't take nearly as many reps as Chad Pennington, who is expected to start

NY Post Dec 22

Kellen Clemens (ribs/left shoulder) is not expected to play in Week 16.

According to Newsday's Tom Rock, Clemens "clearly" has injuries to both his shoulder and ribs, and struggled to do anything at Wednesday's practice. Coach Eric Mangini did say Clemens hasn't lost his spot on the depth chart.

Newsday Dec 19

Though the Jets are saying Kellen Clemens suffered a rib injury on Sunday, there is some belief he hurt his shoulder as well.

Another secretive Jets injury. Clemens "favored the shoulder" after getting pounded into the turf by Patriots DT Richard Seymour, but later said "it's been called a rib" injury. Jets coach Eric Mangini, who may turn back to Chad Pennington for Week 16, added crypitcally "Right now, just rib."

Newark Star Ledger Dec 18

[slats]

That's at least the second time you've mentioned this and I dispute that claim. The only time Clemens didn't play was after he was nearly killed against New England. He threw the one pass that got picked while being crushed. Missed the rest of the game and they sat him the next week against the Titans. He may have been "ready to play" against the Tenn, but he had missed a good portion of the week's practice which is why I recall him being sat. They may not be that impressed with Clemens (I don't see how they could be) but they never benched him or sat him based upon performance.

Nice posts, Dom, and I agree completely.

While it was curious for them to make Clemens active but start Pennington, it's probably more of an indictment on Tui than an endorsement of Chad. Even if Kellen could've played, it would've made little sense for the the Jets to throw him in hurt behind that OL in an already lost season. Why risk his health and his confidence?

As soon as his health returned, he returned to the starting line-up.

It's Kellen's job to lose.

[jetfuel]

Nope, he was hurt and did not practice all week. He was limited in practice the entire week (Wed, Thurs, Fri) leading up to the KC game. He obviously wasn't ready to play against Tenn. Thanks for making me look up something I already knew! Thank God rotoworld makes it extremely simple. During a lost season you do not start injured players whether they "give you a better chance to win or not". Especially not younger players that you are hoping will lead you in the future. Don't make the mistake of thinking he was "ready to play" just because he was active.

They'll have a QB competition, that's for sure. I just hope they both play better than last year. At least one had better or else this team will be tough to watch.

www.nyjets.com Dec 28

www.rotoworld.com

Newsday Dec 23

NY Post Dec 22

Newsday Dec 19

Newark Star Ledger Dec 18

Either way, none of that means anything right now. Clemens was not given the starting job for 2008 as of yet. I haven't heard any ringing endorsements either. You also need to take into account that Mangini likes to use the injury list to his advantage so there is no way of saying that that is entirely accurate. Again though, it doesn't matter right now. You're right that if neither of them play better this year is gonna blow. May the best man win the job and lead the team to as many wins as possible this year.

[jetfuel]

Nice posts, Dom, and I agree completely.

While it was curious for them to make Clemens active but start Pennington, it's probably more of an indictment on Tui than an endorsement of Chad. Even if Kellen could've played, it would've made little sense for the the Jets to throw him in hurt behind that OL in an already lost season. Why risk his health and his confidence?

As soon as his health returned, he returned to the starting line-up.

It's Kellen's job to lose.

The logic is there for sure. I'd agree it's Kellen's job to lose if he had done anything that would justify them starting him last year. Regardless of the O-Line he didn't do that ... not saying that Pennington did. Clemens deserved his shot more because of Chad's horrendous play last year than anything else but he didn't do enough to have an upper hand going into this season. I want the guy to light it up. It would be nice to have a young franchise QB.

[#27TheDominator]

Either way, none of that means anything right now. Clemens was not given the starting job for 2008 as of yet. I haven't heard any ringing endorsements either. You also need to take into account that Mangini likes to use the injury list to his advantage so there is no way of saying that that is entirely accurate. Again though, it doesn't matter right now. You're right that if neither of them play better this year is gonna blow. May the best man win the job and lead the team to as many wins as possible this year.

I agree 100%. Clemens deserves a slight nod because he's (hopefully) on the upswing and Pennington has almost certainly played his best football. Nobody should have the job outright.

Question on that meaningless subject: If Clemens was benched for Pennington due to poor play, doesn't that mean that Pennington was benched for Clemens three times? Once due to injury (week1NE&Bal) and twice due to ineffectiveness (Buf&KC)?

[drago]

it's funny that almost everyone on this board (including me) would have benched Eli manning well before their playoff run. Probably right around the time that he threw 4 picks and no TD's in week 10 or 11.

It's easy to be critical of him but he was a first year starter, if eli can turn into a game manager that takes a few shots downfield every game, then so can Kellen. Maybe i'm overly confident but i think Kellen will be a solid QB for us.

[villain_the_foe]

I didn't see anything in '07 that would make me lean towards either. They both sucked. The most compelling reason Clemens will be starting is the number on his birth certificate. There is no reason to think he should get the nod if he continues to suck in camp and Pennington steps back up to NFL starting caliber QB level.

"If he CONTINUES to suck in camp"....Is this something that you just said to make your point credible or is clemens actually sucking in camp?

I ask because there's been no reports or any threads made about clemens sucking in camp last year that I've seen. And if im correct, camp hasnt started yet this year so where did that come from?

[PeterNorth09]

I didn't see anything in '07 that would make me lean towards either. They both sucked. The most compelling reason Clemens will be starting is the number on his birth certificate. There is no reason to think he should get the nod if he continues to suck in camp and Pennington steps back up to NFL starting caliber QB level.

I agree.