NY Times Article - Walsh has submitted tapes

[Ten]

The taping occurred. The taping was used for scouting purposes. The league determined that it violated the rules. The Patriots were punished.

BB doesn't deny the taping.

Now let move to the real issues and address them logically.

Did BB think what he was doing was legal? Probably or at the very most thought that the rule was ambiguous enough that if he was "caught" the league would clarify the rule.

EM knew the Patriots did this type of taping. BB knew Eric knew. BB knew Eric didn't like him. If BB was worried about being caught (which he would have been worried about if he thought it was against the rules) he would not have continued to do it against the Jets. The fact he taped the Jets, knowing Eric knew of his taping is proof he thought it was legal.

Did the use the tapes during the games and not just for scouting purposes? BB says he they didn't. So far BB has not said anything factually untruthful. Nobody has actually claimed that the Pats did use them during the game. The only thing is people have speculated that they must have. If the Patriots used the tapes during the games. Plenty of people would know. Not only Matt Walsh, but also Eric Mangini. Given that BB has repeated said that they were not used in the game. If Eric knew that to be false would he not only have motive but a responsibility to tell RG that BB is lying?

Did the Patriots tape the Rams walk through? There is no evidence this occurred. If this had occurred and was used by the Pats coaching staff to prepare for the Rams game. Once again EM would know. And would be obligated to tell RG.

And I am not just picking on EM. Jeff Davidson, now oc of the Carolina Panthers would also know. As would Rob Ryan DC of the Raiders. And a host of college head coaches all of whom would have an obligation to come forward if BB was lying.

BB has enough enemies that if anything he has said is false. It would have publicly contradicted.

He taped from an illegal location. He was punished. There is nothing more to it.

How is recording the coaches as they send in the plays scouting?

[124]

Love it when people justy spew stuff because they want to beleive it so bad.

The tapes that were just handed to the NFL by that loser Walsh shows that teh tape was spliced - meaning it was edited - meaning it was done after the orginal material was recorded - meaning it was used for future scouting reports on an upcoming opponenet. You see, every team does this - and they do it now - just not from teh sidelines as arrogant Bill did. However, don't let those facts get inthe way of your sorry agenda!

Your logic is flawed. Yeah it was edited for future games but that does not mean you cannot use the information during the game. Its edited for easier viewing purposes down the line, but you're going to try to sit there and say the Patriots are a bunch of idiots and need everything edited before they can use it?

Every team does this? Really. Okay Garb, you're right. Every single NFL coach from the mid 90's to now has used this, since thats when Belichick probably started doing it in Cleveland. I have heard every one of those coaches said it was done. Yep.

Great guys, the scumbag Jimmy Johnson said he did it so **** everyone must have done it! Jimmy Johnson is a f'ing legend! Yeah! Well aside from his stupid little bull**** sayings, he blew dick. Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith, Jay Novacheck, Michael Irvin and that freakin' offense won Super Bowls not Jimmy f'ing Johnson.

Talk about having an agenda.

[124]

Which coaching staff are you on again?

Which team are you a fan of again? No Patriots fan can be found credible arguing this. Sorry.

[RSJ]

Which team are you a fan of again? No Patriots fan can be found credible arguing this. Sorry.

I agree, every Pats fan who touches this issue sounds like a homer. This helped you win anything your pathetic franchise has ever won. Every other teams fans can see this.

[Garb]

I agree, every Pats fan who touches this issue sounds like a homer. This helped you win anything your pathetic franchise has ever won. Every other teams fans can see this.

....and every Jets fan that posts in this thread is NOT a homer? Dear Lord, get over yourselves. If any franchise is pathetic - it would be the Jets.

Why did this little tidbit get swept under the rug? Oh, I know!!!!! Pick me! Pick me!!! It did not fit the bash the Pats agenda!!!

Jimmy Johnson thinks Spygate is overblown We originally posted this WFAN interview as having been conducted during Super Bowl week. It actually dates back to September. Regardless, it

[RSJ]

....and every Jets fan that posts in this thread is NOT a homer? Dear Lord, get over yourselves. If any franchise is pathetic - it would be the Jets.

Why did this little tidbit get swept under the rug? Oh, I know!!!!! Pick me! Pick me!!! It did not fit the bash the Pats agenda!!!

Jimmy Johnson thinks Spygate is overblown We originally posted this WFAN interview as having been conducted during Super Bowl week. It actually dates back to September. Regardless, it

[124]

For every Jimmy Johnson you bring up I can bring up two Jeff Fishers that are digusted with your teams actions. This is really meaningless as the Pats would not have done it if they didn't gain a competitive advantage. They especially wouldn't have done it AFTER a memo was sent out to stop doing it. And to sit there and say everyone does it when your team was the only one caught is pathetic.

Realtalk

So true, it hurts to see someone owned and smashed down like that so hard.

That is the famous Patriot fan argument you know though. Jimmy Johnson, there new god, did it so ****, everyone did and you know he's the man and Jimmy's never wrong. Hey, **** you Jimmy and **** you Belichick because they're both lieing, cheating scumbags.

And thats exactly it RSJ. For every Belichick and Johnson there are Fisher's, Cowher's, Shanahan's, Bill Walsh's, Holmgren's, etc. I'd say maybe a third of the league is doing things like this, and I'd like to believe its less. Is everyone stealing signals someway? Maybe, but not to the degree New England and obviously the Cowboys of the 90's while Johnson was in town were.

[Garb]

For every Jimmy Johnson you bring up I can bring up two Jeff Fishers that are digusted with your teams actions. This is really meaningless as the Pats would not have done it if they didn't gain a competitive advantage. They especially wouldn't have done it AFTER a memo was sent out to stop doing it. And to sit there and say everyone does it when your team was the only one caught is pathetic.

Yup, that Jeff Fisher - same guy that ordered other players maimed?? Good, credible guy right there.

I've stated before, and I will say so again, it's BB's arrogance that got him in hot water. Once the commissioner sent the memo out to all teh teams saying, essentially "cut it out" - BB continued to do so. He was punished harshly and swiftly. What else do you people want? His left nut? This has become a witch hunt of epic proportions.

[Alk]

Which team are you a fan of again? No Patriots fan can be found credible arguing this. Sorry.

Then maybe you can explain why current and former coaches have come out and said that it didn't have much of an effect on the outcome either.

[Ten]

Realtalk

So true, it hurts to see someone owned and smashed down like that so hard.

That is the famous Patriot fan argument you know though. Jimmy Johnson, there new god, did it so ****, everyone did and you know he's the man and Jimmy's never wrong. Hey, **** you Jimmy and **** you Belichick because they're both lieing, cheating scumbags.

And thats exactly it RSJ. For every Belichick and Johnson there are Fisher's, Cowher's, Shanahan's, Bill Walsh's, Holmgren's, etc. I'd say maybe a third of the league is doing things like this, and I'd like to believe its less. Is everyone stealing signals someway? Maybe, but not to the degree New England and obviously the Cowboys of the 90's while Johnson was in town were.

Th funny thing is that one of these coaches who did steal signals also confirmed that you use the information in game.Funny how pat fans use one point to support their argument but will ignore it for an argument against them.

[Alk]

I agree, every Pats fan who touches this issue sounds like a homer. This helped you win anything your pathetic franchise has ever won. Every other teams fans can see this.

They can "see" this because they are insanely jealous. There's two sides to the coin. Sure, we may be homers but on the other hand, you guys have so much freakin' pent up hatred for this team that there is no way you can possibly be objective on the matter either.

[124]

Th funny thing is that one of these coaches who did steal signals also confirmed that you use the information in game.Funny how pat fans use one point to support their argument but will ignore it for an argument against them.

-Birds & crickets chirping-

Oh Garby, Oh Alky, Oh Reginy.

[124]

Then maybe you can explain why current and former coaches have come out and said that it didn't have much of an effect on the outcome either.

You can't be serious, can you? You always cover your ass to make yourself look good. Sure you admitted to doing it, but you never admit that it helped and that if it did help it helped minimally. Jesus Alk I thought you were smarter than that. I thought you had some street sense.

[Alk]

You can't be serious, can you? You always cover your ass to make yourself look good. Sure you admitted to doing it, but you never admit that it helped and that if it did help it helped minimally. Jesus Alk I thought you were smarter than that. I thought you had some street sense.

No, I'm one of those uptight old farts who don't think shirts with stupid catchphrases on them are funny. Remember? I'm not talking about Patriots coaches here.

[Garb]

-Birds & crickets chirping-

Oh Garby, Oh Alky, Oh Reginy.

[124]

Exactly Garb. Only when it works in your favor do you make a comment otherwise its a stupid little smiley face or wise ass remark. Nothing ever changes.

And Alk, I know you're old fart.

[Garb]

Exactly Garb. Only when it works in your favor do you make a comment otherwise its a stupid little smiley face or wise ass remark. Nothing ever changes.

And Alk, I know you're old fart.

That woudl be incorrect. However, what is the point in arguing with a 19 year old who knows everything.

That said, the "okay Garby, Okay Alky, Okay Reign" retort was insightful at hell. Shoot! You're wicked smaht.

[124]

That woudl be incorrect. However, what is the point in arguing with a 19 year old who knows everything.

That said, the "okay Garby, Okay Alky, Okay Reign" retort was insightful at hell. Shoot! You're wicked smaht.

Its pretty sad that such an older person such as yourself has to pull out the age card. It amazes me when older people are not liking what they hear always have to pull out the age card. Yeah well if it makes you feel cool and bad, go for it.

By the way, lets agree to start talking to the language we all agreed on here in the United States. Smart.

[Garb]

Its pretty sad that such an older person such as yourself has to pull out the age card. It amazes me when older people are not liking what they hear always have to pull out the age card. Yeah well if it makes you feel cool and bad, go for it.

By the way, lets agree to start talking to the language we all agreed on here in the United States. Smart.

Yes, I'm ready for my AARP membership. I do, however, trust the opinion of people who have lived over thirty years than those who are still wet behind the ears. Call me crazy.

Sincerely,

Cool, Bad and Smaht.

LOL!

[Arsis]

That woudl be incorrect. However, what is the point in arguing with a 19 year old who knows everything.

That said, the "okay Garby, Okay Alky, Okay Reign" retort was insightful at hell. Shoot! You're wicked smaht.

attacking the person rather than the arguments is a sure fire way to make it seem like you have been bested in the debate.

[Cyberjet]

Yup, that Jeff Fisher - same guy that ordered other players maimed?? Good, credible guy right there.

I've stated before, and I will say so again, it's BB's arrogance that got him in hot water. Once the commissioner sent the memo out to all teh teams saying, essentially "cut it out" - BB continued to do so. He was punished harshly and swiftly. What else do you people want? His left nut? QUOTE]

Ahh,mmm... yes actually that would be nice, but I think he gave it to Goodell for burning the tapes.

[KSJets]

My buddy's a pats fan. i'm gonna go punch him in the face. Be back later. LOL

Well, it's a good start anyway

[KSJets]

Yup, that Jeff Fisher - same guy that ordered other players maimed?? Good, credible guy right there.

I've stated before, and I will say so again, it's BB's arrogance that got him in hot water. Once the commissioner sent the memo out to all teh teams saying, essentially "cut it out" - BB continued to do so. He was punished harshly and swiftly. What else do you people want? His left nut? This has become a witch hunt of epic proportions.

With you essentially massaging his right one, no thanks. You can keep both.

[Ghost]

"Don't worry Tom we have all of their defensive calls. You are going to look like a legend out there"

POTW nom!

[Garb]

With you essentially massaging his right one, no thanks. You can keep both.

I hate BB for cheating on his wife. I think he's a great coach. A piece of dirt as a person. If you are prone to cheat on your wife/sig other - get out of your marriage/relationship. Get that straight. I'm just keeping the personal and the football separate.

There is no Rams walk-thru - all of you hoped it to be so. It isn't. So, you all start crying...per usual.

One thing I know for sure, success breeds contempt.

As far as the destroyed tapes go - one of them was leaked to the press. You all saw it. What else do you all want? Tips for Mangini? Honestly, this is a whitch hunt of epic proportions.

[Ten]

I hate BB for cheating on his wife. I think he's a great coach. A piece of dirt as a person. If you are prone to cheat on your wife/sig other - get out of your marriage/relationship. Get that straight. I'm just keeping the personal and the football separate.

There is no Rams walk-thru - all of you hoped it to be so. It isn't. So, you all start crying...per usual.

One thing I know for sure, success breeds contempt.

As far as the destroyed tapes go - one of them was leaked to the press. You all saw it. What else do you all want? Tips for Mangini? Honestly, this is a whitch hunt of epic proportions.

What do we want?I'd like to see pat fans stop trying to justify what the pats did.I'd like to see them acknowledge that what the patriots did was wrong.

[chris66]

Even john Clayton has a report that this is over as far as the nfl is concerned

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3386833

[BleedinGreenNC]

Even john Clayton has a report that this is over as far as the nfl is concerned

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3386833

But not Spector!

[Barton]

No walk through tape?

There must have been a second shooter.

[PatriotReign37]

For every Jimmy Johnson you bring up I can bring up two Jeff Fishers that are digusted with your teams actions. This is really meaningless as the Pats would not have done it if they didn't gain a competitive advantage. They especially wouldn't have done it AFTER a memo was sent out to stop doing it. And to sit there and say everyone does it when your team was the only one caught is pathetic.

Howie Long was quoted as saying "I guarantee NE isnt the only team taping signals"

Long had nothing to gain and his credibilty to lose as a sports commentator. People in the know are aware that it was a widespread practice.

[PatriotReign37]

-Birds & crickets chirping-

Oh Garby, Oh Alky, Oh Reginy.

Did Goodell confirm NE used any info during a game? NO.

Ratzogate is OVAH. And, no amount of moaning and crying is going to change that fact.

[gangreenman]

Did Goodell confirm NE used any info during a game? NO.

Ratzogate is OVAH. And, no amount of moaning and crying is going to change that fact.

Why, because Clayton said so?

Spygate will be over on Wednesday, regardless if Goodell demands more punishment. Walsh, the final witness to the Pats spying yet to be questioned-will be questioned on tuesday by both Goodell and Specter.

I assume the NFL will take 24 hrs or so to collect themselves and make a decision, and that decision will be announced on Wednesday.

[Cyberjet]

Bottom line - if BB was not a winning coach he would have been fired. Simple fact. Winning cures all ills and people are willing to look the other way. In the infamous words of South Park - if you cheat and are a winner you are clever and ingenious - if you cheat and are not successful you are a loser and will be punished. BB is a crap person - he deserves all the negative press. He's a delusional narcissistic a-hole in his own little world with his loyal following that can do know wrong or who make excuses for his boorish behaviour.

[Jade Green]

I wonder how much Walsh got paid to lose the Super bowl tape?

For the last 4 months he had it and now all of a sudden he doesn't.

Sounds Fishy, no wait I mean Patsy.

[Sperm Edwards]

Truth is, the league is better off with tapes that showed nothing more than those that were already submitted last season.

If there was a tape of the '02 Superbowl or definitive evidence of radio tampering (even if true), that would have been worse for the league. It may have happened and it may not have happened. Because that is a type of rule-breaking that is more cheating than taking liberty with a practice employed by most (if not all) teams. They all tape the other teams' signals. Many even did it from the sideline. BB continued to after Goodell said to stop. But they all still tape signals & will again next year. So he did it from the sideline. You're not supposed to, but I'm fairly certain that even from the press box or the stands, they use cameras with zoom lenses.

It would have been better if BB simply didn't do it after Goodell said stop, because tainted Lombardi trophies are nothing that rivals have "on" each other; everyone loses, not just the reputation of BB and/or the Patriots since he took over as HC. It's like getting into a car accident that you didn't cause: you're still going to suffer even if it wasn't you that was in the wrong.

I don't think that Goodell is in the Patriots' back pocket. Rather, he realizes it is best for the league to move on. He could have levied a heavier punishment (suspend BB for the 2007 season or whatever) but it is not "good" for the rest of the league - the Jets included - if new evidence arises.

Really, this is like knowing the speed limit is 55. Everyone drives over 55 & cops allow it if it's pretty close to the speed limit. They (almost always) won't pull you over for doing 60 but they'll pull you over for doing 80. Both are still technically speeding though.