Gainzo Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 The guy is probably the best manager of pitchers in MLB. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I'll put Posada against him any day. That's not saying Varitek is not good. He is, much as I hate him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted May 22, 2008 Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 I'll put Posada against him any day. That's not saying Varitek is not good. He is, much as I hate him. Posada is clearly better on offense. No argument with that. I feel Varitek is better as a catcher. Cashman was asked which Red Sox player he wished wasn't on the team. He said Varitek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 He's caught four no hitters. Can't argue with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Catchers don't have much to do with a pitcher's success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted May 22, 2008 Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 Catchers don't have much to do with a pitcher's success. Are you serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 He really is an amazing catcher. He does alot of things that throw off the hitter right before the pitch comes and his game calling is probably 2nd to none. And I hate the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEJet Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I hate the guy, but when is all and said and done, you'll remember Varitek and Fisk as the best Sawx catchers ever Posada had really worked on his defense....I like him alot, but defensively Tek is better, and Posada has the better stick Posada will be up there with the Yankee greats...but Munson was just the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haggis Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Tek is immense. When I go see the Sox play anytime I like to go see both starters warmup in the bully. For the Sox it is not just to see how the Boston pitcher looks, it is to see Varitek. You watch this guy and he reeks professionalism in everything he does. He wants to win so bad. He rocks back and forth during the national anthem as you can tell he is itching to get back to the job at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEJet Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 He's still a puszy And that's how Yankee fans will remember him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I have no respect for him for going after ARod with his freakin' mask on.. what could ARod possibly do to his already screwed up looking face? Other than that, he's a great player and knows how to call a ball game. That being said, I think its 95% pitcher. A pitcher can always blow off the catchers request unless he's young and the manager forces him to listen to the veteran behind the plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kidhuman Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Catchers don't have much to do with a pitcher's success. I have read alot of comments on many different forums today and that by far is the stupidest thing I read today. How the hell does a catcher not have an effect on a pitchers success? I hate Varitek and I would take him on a team if I started one today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebers Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Catchers don't have much to do with a pitcher's success. I think you just lost your right to post on the baseball forum. Roflz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I have no respect for him for going after ARod with his freakin' mask on.. what could ARod possibly do to his already screwed up looking face? Right. He could be the greatest catcher, ever (he's not) and he would still always be Vaginatek because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I think you just lost your right to post on the baseball forum. Roflz ZOMG ROFLZ 2!!!!!! Thank you for telling me my right not to have an opinion. I'm not going to bother arguing with you guys about this because you'll call me a homer and bash me and it'll just be a huge waste of time. So, yes, a catcher has everything to do with a pitcher's success. You guys seriously have to be kidding me. This guy has had some of the best pitchers ever to grace a major league mound, you really think he made them better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Gainzo this is from a SOX fan on the SOSH forums. IMO Varitek's game calling is the single most overrated phenomenon in baseball. I know the guy is well preparted every game and I'm sure he has a plan. I just don't see that that plan always leads to results. In the end it is about the pitcher making the pitch. ^^What I'm trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor99 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I have a friend who was a reliever with the Sox, and I asked him how much a catcher can affect a pitchers game. He told me that the catcher is very important. Not only in pitch selection, but mostly in confidence. Any of you who have played a sport knows how important confidence can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor99 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I have no respect for him for going after ARod with his freakin' mask on.. what could ARod possibly do to his already screwed up looking face? Did you lose any respect when Posada did the same exact thing against the D-Rays a couple of years before that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebers Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 ZOMG ROFLZ 2!!!!!! Thank you for telling me my right not to have an opinion. I'm not going to bother arguing with you guys about this because you'll call me a homer and bash me and it'll just be a huge waste of time. So, yes, a catcher has everything to do with a pitcher's success. You guys seriously have to be kidding me. This guy has had some of the best pitchers ever to grace a major league mound, you really think he made them better? I have no problems with anyone expressing their opinion in an open forum. But when opinions are really baseless, it gets ridiculed. I think its pretty much proven, that catchers have a great deal to do with a pitcher's success. This is not to say that talent is not the most important factor. It obviously is. I just look at this way, that certain star pitchers will not pitch to certain catchers. I remember, Randy Johnson refused to pitch to Posada, and I think Posada's great and I love to have him on the Mets. Johnson much preferred to pitch to a scrub catcher who calls a good game. I think Clemens did the same thing. I remember, Greg Maddux refusing to pitch to Javy Lopez. There has to be a reason to this. The obvious thing is certain catchers have a pitcher's confidence that they can call a great game, and they're in good hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted May 22, 2008 Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 Gainzo this is from a SOX fan on the SOSH forums. ^^What I'm trying to say. Congrats on finding a post by a clueless Sox fan to back up your argument. I tend to believe what players, GM's and others involved in baseball have said about the importance of having a good catcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I have no problems with anyone expressing their opinion in an open forum. But when opinions are really baseless, it gets ridiculed. I think its pretty much proven, that catchers have a great deal to do with a pitcher's success. This is not to say that talent is not the most important factor. It obviously is. I just look at this way, that certain star pitchers will not pitch to certain catchers. I remember, Randy Johnson refused to pitch to Posada, and I think Posada's great and I love to have him on the Mets. Johnson much preferred to pitch to a scrub catcher who calls a good game. I think Clemens did the same thing. I remember, Greg Maddux refusing to pitch to Javy Lopez. There has to be a reason to this. The obvious thing is certain catchers have a pitcher's confidence that they can call a great game, and they're in good hands. You're wrong. It's not proven at all. Yeah, Randy Johnson refused to pitch to Posada. How'd that work out? He still bombed more than half the time he pitched for Christ's sake, and the Yankees got screwed because they had to make their star more "comfortable" and lose a hell of a lot of offense in the process. How can you really sit there and tell me that Varitek has made Pedro Martinez, Curt Schilling, Josh Beckett, and others like them better when he obviously hasn't as the stats suggest? Oh and by the way, don't trust everything out of players' mouths. Players and managers also believe grit and hustle wins games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted May 22, 2008 Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 You're wrong. It's not proven at all. Yeah, Randy Johnson refused to pitch to Posada. How'd that work out? He still bombed more than half the time he pitched for Christ's sake, and the Yankees got screwed because they had to make their star more "comfortable" and lose a hell of a lot of offense in the process. How can you really sit there and tell me that Varitek has made Pedro Martinez, Curt Schilling, Josh Beckett, and others like them better when he obviously hasn't as the stats suggest? Oh and by the way, don't trust everything out of players' mouths. Players and managers also believe grit and hustle wins games. Here is quote from Curt Schillings blog. He seems to hold Varitek in high esteem. About a year ago Dustin Pedroia, soon to be rookie of the year, saves Clay Bucholz’s no-hitter with an incredible play. Yesterday Jacoby does the same for Jon Lester. That group of 4 players is like the Mount Rushmore of why the Red Sox have put themselves in a position to win, a lot, over the next decade. All of that done with the “rock” behind the plate that is Jason Varitek. It’s no coincidence that he’s now caught a record 4 no-hitters, trust me. I would BET, BIG MONEY, that I’d have been the 4th if I hadn’t shaken him off….. http://38pitches.com/ If you don't know Schilling had a no hitter going in Oakland last year with 2 outs in the 9th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiLMiCKMANTLE Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Veritek is a great player but as a yankee i cant stand the guy.. i wish A-rod woulda whooped his ass that one day insted of slaping like a biatch.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebers Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 You're wrong. It's not proven at all. Yeah, Randy Johnson refused to pitch to Posada. How'd that work out? He still bombed more than half the time he pitched for Christ's sake, and the Yankees got screwed because they had to make their star more "comfortable" and lose a hell of a lot of offense in the process. How can you really sit there and tell me that Varitek has made Pedro Martinez, Curt Schilling, Josh Beckett, and others like them better when he obviously hasn't as the stats suggest? Oh and by the way, don't trust everything out of players' mouths. Players and managers also believe grit and hustle wins games. Explain to me why some pitchers refuse to pitch to some catchers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiLMiCKMANTLE Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Explain to me why some pitchers refuse to pitch to some catchers? you just hit the nail on the head buddy!! im pretty sure veritek isnt calling the whole game by hisself but i garentee its more than half.. a good catcher knows hitters and how to pitch to them and, no the catcher isnt throwing the pitch but he is still sitting there every pitch making sure there pitcher gets that close strike call.. and posada and tek do that very well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted May 22, 2008 Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 you just hit the nail on the head buddy!! im pretty sure veritek isnt calling the whole game by hisself but i garentee its more than half.. a good catcher knows hitters and how to pitch to them and, no the catcher isnt throwing the pitch but he is still sitting there every pitch making sure there pitcher gets that close strike call.. and posada and tek do that very well DaBrick Wall is fighting a losing battle on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Explain to me why some pitchers refuse to pitch to some catchers? Explain to me why some players wear thongs to break out of a slump. It's called superstition. One good game and feeling "comfortable" doesn't mean it always works. Explain to me why Randy Johnson blew even when he was pitching to John Flaherty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Here is quote from Curt Schillings blog. He seems to hold Varitek in high esteem. http://38pitches.com/ If you don't know Schilling had a no hitter going in Oakland last year with 2 outs in the 9th. That would be useful if I believe anything that came out of Curt Schilling's mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebers Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Explain to me why some players wear thongs to break out of a slump. It's called superstition. One good game and feeling "comfortable" doesn't mean it always works. Explain to me why Randy Johnson blew even when he was pitching to John Flaherty. If you believe, comfort and confidence has nothing to do with success, than you are correct. I have no idea why the Yankees wear Giambi's gold thong. That's topic for another day. Maybe the gaybashers on this forum can have a field day with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 If you believe, comfort and confidence has nothing to do with success, than you are correct. I have no idea why the Yankees wear Giambi's gold thong. That's topic for another day. Maybe the gaybashers on this forum can have a field day with that. The point is--and this is probably the last thing I'm going to say on this topic, at least for today; it's cutting into my work--that I never said that catchers have NOTHING to do with a pitchers' success. Obviously Greg Maddux has had a great career with a personal catcher, but Randy Johnson has had his ups and downs with them. But a catcher simply can't have much to do with a pitcher's success. IN the end, it comes down to the pitcher's talent and his ability to put the pitch where he wants it and the speed at which he wants it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted May 22, 2008 Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 That would be useful if I believe anything that came out of Curt Schilling's mouth. Then how about this comment from Matt Clement a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Food for thought: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/columnist/thorne/2005-06-01-thorne_x.htm "We (Cox and Mazzone) have never called a pitch in all the years I've been here," Mazzone said. "The pitchers call the game. The signal from the catcher is just a suggestion." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Then how about this comment from Matt Clement a few years ago. http://www.jason-varitek.com/articles/2005/skyhightek.html Obviously you are not going to budge on your opinion that catchers have no impact on the game. Just thought I would give you some examples from pitchers. I never said they have no impact on the game. I think it's minimal to a pitcher's success. There are other ways they have a defensive impact, for sure. Framing pitches, throwing out runners, and even having good enough arms to make runners think twice about running on them, blocking the plate, etc. If we're going to put a percent on it though, I'd say a catcher has no more than 10% to do with a pitcher's success in a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted May 22, 2008 Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 Food for thought: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/columnist/thorne/2005-06-01-thorne_x.htm Yet, the Braves' approach in handling their pitchers is one rarely followed by other teams. How did Mazzone do when he went to the Orioles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 How did Mazzone do when he went to the Orioles? True but it's not like their pitchers had any talent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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