Giaints announce PSL fee structure today

[Maxman]

make no mistake people have the right to complain all they want - but I also have a right to say "get a life."

People talk about price gouging, about what's fair.

Here's the truth, you can't price gouge for a non-essential item. Milk, Gas, Bread - these are staples. When a disaster takes out the town and refugees head to the town next door to find they are charging 5 dollars for a roll of toilet paper, that's price gouging.

Jets tickets are not essential items they are luxury items. There is no fair in luxury. There's no price point at which certain people should be able to afford another others shouldn't. These are entertainment expendures, these are optional luxury items, Woody Johnson owns the team, he can and will be able to charge whatever he wants.

also why is this such a surprise to everyone? We knew this would happen for years, no one saved money for it, everyone hoped for the best and here we are.

ya know there are some people in this world who can't pay 1 dollar a ticket and 50 cents for a PSL, no one cries for those poor souls. But we should be outraged that some yet-to-be-determined segment of the middle class is getting priced out ? Why? Why are current season ticket holders worthwhile? Is it because they cheered Chad when he went down in week 1? Is the knife fights that break out when the team is terrible? The current season ticket holders have no rights, nor do they deserve any.

the way i see it people have always been priced out from the beginning, no one cried for the super poor who were priced out the year after 1968. Or those who couldn't afford paying the tolls to see the team in NJ in 1980.

Just because it affects you it is unfair? Believe that if you must but what's fair for one is fair for all. Life is not fair.

Meanwhile we ask what is the benefit? A new stadium is in fact a benefit. It might not seem that way right now on paper but when you go in 2009 on janky escalators and then in 2010 on new escalators it will be just one of hundreds of huge differences that benefit the consumer.

I don't know about you but I hate our current building. It sucks. I am embarassed by the current crowd. I can't wait for change. And if PSL is part of that change I say great.

I am not claiming they are price gouging. When there is a blackout in NYC and they charge insane prices for flashlights, that is price gouging.

The prices on the survey that was sent out are just good old fashioned stupidity. Good luck getting the corporate crowd to go on game day when you are 4 and 11.

[JETSFAN5180]

bitonti wrote:

I don't know about you but I hate our current building. It sucks. I am embarassed by the current crowd. I can't wait for change. And if PSL is part of that change I say great.

__________________

Trade in the Jets jersey and get out your dockers, polo shirt and loafers without them you will look like WHITE TRASH on gameday.Have fun........

[bitonti]

WE should be real happy that the teams will bring in a stream of revenues for naming rights over a period of years- Oh I forgot that is not going to help the average fan that are supporting the team for all these years.

this is another peeve of mine - the idea of the 'average' fan

walk around Giants Stadium parking lot you won't find alot of old used beat up cars.

seems to me the 'average' fan is already well above average - by any metric.

this isn't a case where 'average' fans are tossed aside for super rich fans

it's a case where rich fans are being tossed aside for richer ones.

Granted this comment is in NY where people can be making 300k a year and still feel pinched - but I stand by the statement.

No one was ever average in the NYJ season ticket holder pool. Anyone who can afford several thousand dollars per year in entertainment tickets is, by definition, above average.

Now the line is going to move from above average to more above average, this is not some kind of crime against humanity.

It's a re-pricing of a luxury non-essential item. These things happen from time to time.

You can either cry about it or make more money but that's life in the big city. If you don't like it i hear Tennnesse titans PSLs are very affordable.

[Lil Bit Special]

make no mistake people have the right to complain all they want - but I also have a right to say "get a life."

People talk about price gouging, about what's fair.

Here's the truth, you can't price gouge for a non-essential item. Milk, Gas, Bread - these are staples. When a disaster takes out the town and refugees head to the town next door to find they are charging 5 dollars for a roll of toilet paper, that's price gouging.

Jets tickets are not essential items they are luxury items. There is no fair in luxury. There's no price point at which certain people should be able to afford another others shouldn't. These are entertainment expendures, these are optional luxury items, Woody Johnson owns the team, he can and will be able to charge whatever he wants.

also why is this such a surprise to everyone? We knew this would happen for years, no one saved money for it, everyone hoped for the best and here we are.

ya know there are some people in this world who can't pay 1 dollar a ticket and 50 cents for a PSL, no one cries for those poor souls. But we should be outraged that some yet-to-be-determined segment of the middle class is getting priced out ? Why? Why are current season ticket holders worthwhile? Is it because they cheered Chad when he went down in week 1? Is the knife fights that break out when the team is terrible? The current season ticket holders have no rights, nor do they deserve any.

the way i see it people have always been priced out from the beginning, no one cried for the super poor who were priced out the year after 1968. Or those who couldn't afford paying the tolls to see the team in NJ in 1980.

Just because it affects you it is unfair? Believe that if you must but what's fair for one is fair for all. Life is not fair.

Meanwhile we ask what is the benefit? A new stadium is in fact a benefit. It might not seem that way right now on paper but when you go in 2009 on janky escalators and then in 2010 on new escalators it will be just one of hundreds of huge differences that benefit the consumer.

I don't know about you but I hate our current building. It sucks. I am embarassed by the current crowd. I can't wait for change. And if PSL is part of that change I say great.

The price of a ticket is based on the fact they have demand for it. If you piss off the fan base too much they wont be there to buy tickets. Its not like milk or bread. If the jets piss me off too much with this, I am never going to consume their product again, I dont need it.

Thats why fans are mad... we see that the owners are just trying to profit as much as they can at our expense. Does it really matter to Woody if he makes 20 million this year instead of 35 million? Sure he has every right to charge us what he wants. But at some point he will go over the edge and there will no longer be the demand needed to sustain the profitability of his ball club.

Gouging is just a buzzword to make it sound worse than it is. In reality its an owner trying to profit off his investment while there is demand. Unfortunately he may push the profit issue too far and lose everything he has gained. Us fans are what built this profit for him- we just wish he had loyalty to us, and he doesnt. he wants to make money, and that pisses the common man off more than anything else- a rich guy wanting more more more.

And wow.. escalators. Yeah.. those 20 times a year I ride them.. yup. sure is worth it. For me there is nothing in the new stadium that is worth it. nothing.

[Lil Bit Special]

this is another peeve of mine - the idea of the 'average' fan

walk around Giants Stadium parking lot you won't find alot of old used beat up cars.

seems to me the 'average' fan is already well above average - by any metric.

this isn't a case where 'average' fans are tossed aside for super rich fans

it's a case where rich fans are being tossed aside for richer ones.

Granted this comment is in NY where people can be making 300k a year and still feel pinched - but I stand by the statement.

No one was ever average in the NYJ season ticket holder pool. Anyone who can afford several thousand dollars per year in entertainment tickets is, by definition, above average.

Now the line is going to move from above average to more above average, this is not some kind of crime against humanity.

It's a re-pricing of a luxury non-essential item. These things happen from time to time.

You can either cry about it or make more money but that's life in the big city. If you don't like it i hear Tennnesse titans PSLs are very affordable.

you obviously never walked past my car.

and yep. its a luxury non essential item. Woody will see that very shortly.

[bitonti]

I am not claiming they are price gouging. When there is a blackout in NYC and they charge insane prices for flashlights, that is price gouging.

The prices on the survey that was sent out are just good old fashioned stupidity. Good luck getting the corporate crowd to go on game day when you are 4 and 11.

Max i've been there when it's 4-11 and cold - many season ticket holders aren't going either.

[faba]

Bit I really doubt that you can call the majority of Jet fans rich - most are middle class that love sports like I consider myself.

[bitonti]

Us fans are what built this profit for him- we just wish he had loyalty to us, and he doesnt. he wants to make money, and that pisses the common man off more than anything else- a rich guy wanting more more more.

It's not a perfect system but the alternative is communism. If very rich men decided enough was enough there would be no stock market.

And wow.. escalators. Yeah.. those 20 times a year I ride them.. yup. sure is worth it. For me there is nothing in the new stadium that is worth it. nothing.

Do you pee in the stadium? Get food? get a beer? Sit in a seat? everything will change and everything will be better. That costs money.

[Lil Bit Special]

Max i've been there when it's 4-11 and cold - many season ticket holders aren't going either.

that might be the only good i see out of this. finally we get rid of the people who just sell tickets instead of going. maybe people will feel some sort of ownership of the team.

If Im paying for the right to buy tickets, Id be more likely to go no matter how bad they are.

of course i do go to every game already... Im talking the average fan.

there's one positive i see. the other is the new training facility. other than that, its all fluff.

[bitonti]

Bit I really doubt that you can call the majority of Jet fans rich - most are middle class that love sports like I consider myself.

It's an issue of perception. The idea of middle class has alot of definitions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class

Let's use current prices and say 1 lower level ticket is about 1000 bucks - a person has two tickets who pays 2000 of their 40000 a year salary (after taxes) is spending 5% of their income on Jets tickets. Not including, gas, tolls, parking or food. 4 tickets is 10%. This is a pretty huge number for a member of the true middle class.

I would argue most actual ticket holders are higher than middle class. Not that it matters. this could be a move from poverty line to middle class or a move from upper-middle to lower-upper - in the end it's an arbitrary move. The question of whether you (or I) personally are affected isn't really relevant to the picture as a whole.

And for all those who predict gloom and doom for Woody there are millions of Jets fans there are 80k seats I don't think he's gonna have a problem selling tickets.

[Lil Bit Special]

It's not a perfect system but the alternative is communism. If very rich men decided enough was enough there would be no stock market.

Do you pee in the stadium? Get food? get a beer? Sit in a seat? everything will change and everything will be better. That costs money.

why would the alternate have to be the polar opposite? Doesnt make sense. we dont have a true democracy as much as we'd like to believe it. Everybody gets handouts one way or another. all of us. We just wish our owner would give us a break.

Yes I pee, and never had any major issues...oohh I got to wait 5 minutes to pee... WAAAH.

Eat? No. overpriced and lousy. And all the modern baseball stadiums I;ve been to: overpriced and lousy. that aint going to change.

Beer? No way. Too much money.

Sit? Yep. My seat is very nice. If fact they replaced the whole section of seats a few years ago. Why would a new seat be any better than what I have currently? It will still be made of plastic. It will still flip up when I try to stand on it.

Are there problems in the stadium? Yes. Why? Because they dont care. so to fix them we need to build a new place. And in 20 years, guess what... WAAAH we need a new stadium because things are falling apart because we dont maintain them... waah.

The stadium will be real pretty with lots of bells and whistles. Im there to watch football, not look at the bells and whistles.

[OJDidIt]

You can be pro-PSL all you want. Opinions are ok. Its stupid comments like yours above that pisses people off.

Why does the PSL's have the value they have? Please answer.

PSL's have value because the market supports those values. They will all be sold.

[Lil Bit Special]

And for all those who predict gloom and doom for Woody there are millions of Jets fans there are 80k seats I don't think he's gonna have a problem selling tickets.

Million fans. 40,000 +/- season ticket account holders, 10,000 waiting list...

What are the other 950,000 doing? If there was such a demand wouldnt people be in the list already?

I dont think Woody will have any problem selling out the new place. But its no slam dunk either. Since the majority of people in NY are middle/upper middle class they are in the same situation many current ticket holders are in. Is there worth in this?

The biggest threat right now is the labor strife in the NFL. If they strike, goodbye fans.

goodbye profit.

[Lil Bit Special]

PSL's have value because the market supports those values. They will all be sold.

So PSLs have value because of the market. Who is in that market? Thats right. the common man.

What happens when the common man can no longer afford the luxury items? The market dries up. What happens when the market dries up? No one there to buy your tickets to offset your investment in the PSL's.

There arent enough rich folk to support the jets when the common man no longer can go.

And not for one moment do I think any PSL's will go unsold. There are enough suckers out there to fall for it.

By the way... obviously you didnt like my previous offer. How about you pay me $50,000 right now for the rights to my seats. When the PSL bill comes, you pay it. You get 2 seats to sell right now. In 2010 I will "sell"you the PSL for nothing and transfer everything to you.

What better than 50 yard line seats! Just think of the profit you can make on these!

[Green DNA]

Meanwhile we ask what is the benefit? A new stadium is in fact a benefit. It might not seem that way right now on paper but when you go in 2009 on janky escalators and then in 2010 on new escalators it will be just one of hundreds of huge differences that benefit the consumer.

New escalators?? I am getting a chubby just thinking about that prospect. At the end of the day, I don't give a crap about the restaurants, Xanadu, a sixty billion inch HD jumbotron, the green lights, cup holders on the seats or new escalators. I just want to see a football game, because that is the reason I drive out to Jersey 8 times a year (I boycott pre-season games). I don't need a game day experience that tixkes my ass with a feather, I want FOOTBALL. The current stadium takes care of that quite nicely.

[slats]

What I think is funny is that the Jets are treating their fans the same way they're treating Chris Baker.

Chris/the fans say, "Take care of me monetarily, or maybe I'll go somewhere else with my money/services."

The Jets say, "That's okay, we already have someone available to take your place on our terms."

Most fans seem to like that treatment... of Chris Baker.

[Lil Bit Special]

What I think is funny is that the Jets are treating their fans the same way they're treating Chris Baker.

Chris/the fans say, "Take care of me monetarily, or maybe I'll go somewhere else with my money/services."

The Jets say, "That's okay, we already have someone available to take your place on our terms."

Most fans seem to like that treatment... of Chris Baker.

dick.

[Green DNA]

What I think is funny is that the Jets are treating their fans the same way they're treating Chris Baker.

Chris/the fans say, "Take care of me monetarily, or maybe I'll go somewhere else with my money/services."

The Jets say, "That's okay, we already have someone available to take your place on our terms."

Most fans seem to like that treatment... of Chris Baker.

Chris Baker is an employee of the team and is signed to a contract that he is not honoring. Fans that have supporting the team financially for up to 40 years with no title to show for it are getting squeezed. I don't see the connection.

[slats]

Chris Baker is an employee of the team and is signed to a contract that he is not honoring. Fans that have supporting the team financially for up to 40 years with no title to show for it are getting squeezed. I don't see the connection.

No?

I mean, I am being a bit of a sarcastic prick here, but the bottom line is that it's a business. There's no loyalty to the player, and there's no loyalty to the fan - not when it gets in the way of the success of that business.

[Green DNA]

No?

I mean, I am being a bit of a sarcastic prick here, but the bottom line is that it's a business. There's no loyalty to the player, and there's no loyalty to the fan - not when it gets in the way of the success of that business.

Yes it is a business and as people like to point out, every business owner is entitled to charge what he wants in order to maximize profits. From a football teams point of view, the market is somewhat limited in that you are attracting only the local fans of your team, not some world wide market like a pair of shoes or an IPod. In business the same people you see trample on the way up may be the same people you need a favor from on the way down. If Woody prices a huge segment of the fanbase out of the stadium, he better hope that he manages to get his big money ticket buyers to step up otherwise he will be backtracking and trying to woo a very bitter fanbase. Other teams (ie: Dolphins) need to resort to all types of gimmicks to fans in the seats, and I don't think the Jets fans are the limitless ATM that Woody seems to think.

[Maxman]

this is another peeve of mine - the idea of the 'average' fan

walk around Giants Stadium parking lot you won't find alot of old used beat up cars.

seems to me the 'average' fan is already well above average - by any metric.

this isn't a case where 'average' fans are tossed aside for super rich fans

it's a case where rich fans are being tossed aside for richer ones.

Granted this comment is in NY where people can be making 300k a year and still feel pinched - but I stand by the statement.

No one was ever average in the NYJ season ticket holder pool. Anyone who can afford several thousand dollars per year in entertainment tickets is, by definition, above average.

Now the line is going to move from above average to more above average, this is not some kind of crime against humanity.

It's a re-pricing of a luxury non-essential item. These things happen from time to time.

You can either cry about it or make more money but that's life in the big city. If you don't like it i hear Tennnesse titans PSLs are very affordable.

Bit that is all well and good. BUT -- I can tell you I know someone that has had tickets (12) for 25 years. They drive a tailgate vehicle that cost more than my house. They paid a PSL (yes the Jets have some sort of license now) for the front row club seats.

If you can take an extreme fan like that and get them to walk, you have gone too far. It isn't about money. Anyone who drives a Kingsley -- it definitely isn't about money.

If they price out people like that then I am scared for how quiet the stadium will be on game days.

[Maxman]

What I think is funny is that the Jets are treating their fans the same way they're treating Chris Baker.

Chris/the fans say, "Take care of me monetarily, or maybe I'll go somewhere else with my money/services."

The Jets say, "That's okay, we already have someone available to take your place on our terms."

Most fans seem to like that treatment... of Chris Baker.

Big difference. The Jets are the ones looking to renegotiate our contract in this case. I wouldn't complain if they Jets kept things the way they were.

Hell I want the contract I signed 20 years ago back. I think I paid $20 a seat back then.

[bitonti]

you guys are aware giants Stadium is falling apart right?

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2007/12/31/2007-12-31_officials_begin_inspection_of_giants_sta.html

[Maxman]

you guys are aware giants Stadium is falling apart right?

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2007/12/31/2007-12-31_officials_begin_inspection_of_giants_sta.html

LOL it is falling apart.

I know about that escalator incident. I talked to the paramedic the next day. That was a bad accident, he said the guy was going to lose a large part of his leg.

But is the stadium really "falling apart"?

[bitonti]

Bit that is all well and good. BUT -- I can tell you I know someone that has had tickets (12) for 25 years. They drive a tailgate vehicle that cost more than my house. They paid a PSL (yes the Jets have some sort of license now) for the front row club seats.

If you can take an extreme fan like that and get them to walk, you have gone too far. It isn't about money. Anyone who drives a Kingsley -- it definitely isn't about money.

If they price out people like that then I am scared for how quiet the stadium will be on game days.

This example won't get priced out of the stadium but might get priced out of those particular seats.

That's the other thing, we don't even know what the damage will be, but everyone still wants to cry about it. How about we wait until the PSL announcement before the weeping and gnashing of teeth?

[BwanaZulia]

Good luck getting the corporate crowd to go on game day when you are 4 and 11.

Will it be as easy as it was this year when we were 4-12 and half the people didn't show up?

This whole "Corporate Crowd vs Regular Joy" fans argument is flawed from left to right, lets drop it as nobody has the facts to make the argument. The current crop of fans are certainly not blowing out the house, so who says the next group won't be any better.

BZ

[bitonti]

But is the stadium really "falling apart"?

We can split hairs but bottom line it's roughly the same design and age as the old Philly Veterans stadium and before that thing closed there were whole sections collapsing during the Army Navy game.

Im not going to say there's no selfishness here on the part of ownership - there clearly is - there is a big part of this motivated by luxury boxes etc - but we can't pretend that the building will hold up to maximum usage for another 30 years and the Jets are just ripping people off for no other reason but greed.

I tend to believe the escalator type incidents will continue to increase until the stadium is replaced. There are no easy fixes in these situations.

[BwanaZulia]

I am sorry bit, I am going to have to report you. You are using too much common sense. Really. I mean, don't know that the Middle Class is being priced out of a luxury item?

BZ

[Jet Moses]

I am sorry bit, I am going to have to report you. You are using too much common sense. Really. I mean, don't know that the Middle Class is being priced out of a luxury item?

BZ

Corzine has already committed $300 million dollars of taxpayers money. By the time this stadium is finished, it will probably be double that amount.

So Woody has the right to tell all these people in NJ to go F themselves, "his" stadium is exclusively for the Russian Tea Room/ Nobu set.

Got it.

[flgreen]

I am sorry bit, I am going to have to report you. You are using too much common sense. Really. I mean, don't know that the Middle Class is being priced out of a luxury item?

BZ

O.J. Agrees with him, and you are saying he is using to much common sense. Geeez

[124]

Giants Stadium is not falling apart. They could've just renovated it and it would've been good for at least another 10-15 years. The new stadium was not a need, it was a greedy move by both organizations to get more money. Lets not be foolish.

The real diehard fan who has been with the team with season tickets for 20+ years who now has 4-10 seats in the Lower Bowl because they've been around so long, well, they're the ones getting forced out. Yeah sure, the Uppper Level guys who have been there 5-10 years, SOME OF THEM will remain, and I'm not saying they're not diehard because they are, but most diehards are getting forced out.

[Maxman]

Will it be as easy as it was this year when we were 4-12 and half the people didn't show up?

This whole "Corporate Crowd vs Regular Joy" fans argument is flawed from left to right, lets drop it as nobody has the facts to make the argument. The current crop of fans are certainly not blowing out the house, so who says the next group won't be any better.

BZ

When the team was 4 and 12 the season was over. You might have showed up for week one of the postseason but the Jets weren't playing. That is why it was so empty.

Damn newbie.

[Maxman]

This example won't get priced out of the stadium but might get priced out of those particular seats.

That's the other thing, we don't even know what the damage will be, but everyone still wants to cry about it. How about we wait until the PSL announcement before the weeping and gnashing of teeth?

We make a stink now -- before it is too late. The Jets read this stuff every day. Every single day.

[Maxman]

Giants Stadium is not falling apart. They could've just renovated it and it would've been good for at least another 10-15 years. The new stadium was not a need, it was a greedy move by both organizations to get more money. Lets not be foolish.

The real diehard fan who has been with the team with season tickets for 20+ years who now has 4-10 seats in the Lower Bowl because they've been around so long, well, they're the ones getting forced out. Yeah sure, the Uppper Level guys who have been there 5-10 years, SOME OF THEM will remain, and I'm not saying they're not diehard because they are, but most diehards are getting forced out.

Seriously man it is falling apart!!! I think it has to do with all the Gate D flashing. No sort of structure can withstand such abuse.

LOL Bit -- the stadium is falling apart so they have to build a new one. There should be an infraction for posting such things.

[faba]

The Jets and Giants wanted a new stadium for luxury boxes revenue just like all the other stadiums that are new- not because a new stadium had to be built.