Blackout Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 i dont like Farnsworth against the red sox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KudosForND Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 didnt farnsworth have trouble with the tigers a few years ago and thats why they traded him? i dont understand why i read through this and people say they dont like this trade molina is batting .226 and pudge batting .295. pudge is the best fielding catcher of all time and ill even go on record to say is the best catcher all time. ok we gave up an ok pitcher in farnsworth but we have so much good bullpens and now wit getting marte we really didnt need him. pretty much the worst think about this trade is when we brawl we wont have him going crazy and killing ppl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Molina caught stealing pct: 47.3% 26cs of 55 attempts in 57 starts IRod: 36% 18cs of 50 attempts in 79 starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Yeah, this trade would be good.....5 or 6 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anskyruben Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Molina has a gun no doubt. If he could hit 260+ I would say leave him behind the plate. The guy can't hit for ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Yeah, we don't need defense right now, I'd rather have offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KudosForND Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Yeah, we don't need defense right now, I'd rather have offense. yea and its not like we are getting a bad catcher at fielding maybe stats arent as good as molina but still will have molina and also just pudges presence will hold aalot of ppl trying to steal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Pudge is one of the best defensive catchers of his era. How many runners you throw out isn't half of what a catcher is defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anskyruben Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Pudge is one of the best defensive catchers of his era. How many runners you throw out isn't half of what a catcher is defensively. No, but it is 80% of your defensive skill. Molina is a grade A defensive catcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 GREAT move. Although Farnsworthless, for the most part, was pitching better lately than he has in a long, long time, with Marte in house he is expendable and if we're going for a championship, which by making this move we clearly are, Pudge is a solid pick-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasonJet Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Yeah, this trade would be good.....5 or 6 years ago. So basically what your saying is Molina is better than Rodriguez? Pudge is past his prime but it is still way better than Molina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yisman Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 what a fleece job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 So basically what your saying is Molina is better than Rodriguez? Defensively, yes. Obviously not on offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasonJet Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Defensively, yes. Obviously not on offense. I'll take the minor difference in defense over the major difference on offense. Molina is close to an automatic out, and throwing out 47% of baserunners only makes up for that if he is a backup. I just couldn't see Molina starting in the playoffs. He has never even played 80 games in a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 offense + defense = pudge or defense = molina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anskyruben Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 We'll see how he does with the pitching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlag Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 This trade was a coup. There is nothing to dislike. We traded away our deepest position and not even our best guy. In fact he's a pitcher who has gotten hot over the past month to boost his value, which is perfect, because it was the same old Farnsworth in the first few months. This guy would eventually return to the meat head we all grew to hate and everyone including myself would have blamed Cashman for keeping his worthless butt around when they could of gotten something in return. It just so happens not only do they get a return but a HOF talent at a position the Yanks are currently deficit at. What's not to COMPLETELY LOVE about this trade? Mrs. Cashman better be going to town on him tonight for being the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Defensively, yes. Obviously not on offense. There's more to defense than throwing people out. Molina is extremely overrated defensively, probably because he can't hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Of Bavaria Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Do you know how hard it was to wait until today to chat about this because I didn't have access to the net? Max called me yesterday to break the news and the general mood in Detroit is bittersweet I guess. A lot of people, like myself, remember the last time Farnsy was in a Tigers uniform. He was average, offered a long term deal along with the role of closer, and still told Detroit to take a hike because he didn't want to be here. He's definitely an upgrade in the pen, however this year, that's not much of a bold statement. The question becomes, do the Tigers make Farnsy their closer, or throw him into the setup role while the (GULP) Fernando Rodney Experiment at Closer continues. If so, what do they do with Jones? I don't know if Farnsy is even closer material? A lot of people here are hoping the Tigers go after Fuentes or F. Rodriguez in the offseason. I understand Dave Dombrowski's move here from a pure business point of view. Pudge's contact was up after this year and he wanted crazy money to stay, something the Tigers have known they would not pay since day one of this season. DD knew it would come to him leaving, one way or another, and got something before getting nothing. That said, it's sad to see the guy who basically helped jump start the franchise turnaround by being the only guy willing to come to Detroit. Yeah sure, $ was probably his motivation, but at the time the Tigers were throwing RECKLESS amounts of cash around to Free Agents and being told to take a hike. Pudge's arrival all but legitimized the Tigers' rebuilding effort and was probably singlehandedly responsible for a host of free agents who would later join the roster. It was a great run and I have nothing bad to say about him. He's basically a NHL style "rental" for the Yanks this year but it's a risk worth taking for you guys. As for the Tigers, even though they won a 13 inning slugfest thriller last night, I think this is sort of a signal that the machine is broken, this season is screwed, and let's set up for 2009. Never in a million years would I had thought I'd be saying that in July when this season started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Defensively, yes. Obviously not on offense. Bob, Rodriguez is a great defensive catcher who will be great with the young pitchers. he's also a very difficult out with 2 outs and runners in scoring position, something this team hasn't had in a while. a pesky pain in the ass hitter that won't be swinging for the fences. I like this trade a lot. and we get rid of Farnsworth to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Of Bavaria Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 By September, here's the main storyline in the baseball media: "Pudge's presence helps develop and mature Chamberlain into a force" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 There's more to defense than throwing people out. Molina is extremely overrated defensively, probably because he can't hit. Like game calling, right and setting up hitters? I am sure you believe in a catcher's worth for that quite a bit, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 Pudge is one of the best defensive catchers of his era. How many runners you throw out isn't half of what a catcher is defensively. Art Monk and Ronnie Lott were two of the greatest players of their era, too. Didn't mean **** by the time they got to the Jets. Don't get me wrong - it was a good move and I hope it turns out to bea GREAT move. But, let's not pretend we're getting Pudge in his prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 So basically what your saying is Molina is better than Rodriguez? Pudge is past his prime but it is still way better than Molina. Defensively, but not even close on offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 I thought pudge was having a bad year? I like that it removes an easy out from our line-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Like game calling, right and setting up hitters? I am sure you believe in a catcher's worth for that quite a bit, right? There are some situations in which game calling is important. A few select pitches in the game. I don't know how important that is, but IMO the manager calls the game or the pitcher, especially a veteran one, usually calls his own game. In the end, the pitcher has to make the pitch. But besides "game calling," a catcher must have good technique that enables them to frame pitches, get down quickly on balls thrown in the dirt, and block the plate, among other things. Molina is the best at throwing runners out, but there's more to being a good defensive catcher than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 There are some situations in which game calling is important. A few select pitches in the game. I don't know how important that is, but IMO the manager calls the game or the pitcher, especially a veteran one, usually calls his own game. In the end, the pitcher has to make the pitch. But besides "game calling," a catcher must have good technique that enables them to frame pitches, get down quickly on balls thrown in the dirt, and block the plate, among other things. Molina is the best at throwing runners out, but there's more to being a good defensive catcher than that. So a great defensive catcher does not know how to properly set up hitters, as well as understand his own pitchers abilities in certain situations? I think you give catcher's and game calling far too little credit in how a game is called. If it was as you suggested, athletic catchers would be at more of a premium than cerebral catchers. And that is not the case. Why would some of the best pitchers in the game (maddux, Carlton) have personal caddys and would not pitch to certain catchers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KudosForND Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Bob, Rodriguez is a great defensive catcher who will be great with the young pitchers. he's also a very difficult out with 2 outs and runners in scoring position, something this team hasn't had in a while. a pesky pain in the ass hitter that won't be swinging for the fences. I like this trade a lot. and we get rid of Farnsworth to boot. yankees are the best with 2 outs. they showed it during on of the orioles games. pudge is the best at calling games and thats what hughes,kennedy,joba,and rest of young pitchers need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBrick Wall Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 So a great defensive catcher does not know how to properly set up hitters, as well as understand his own pitchers abilities in certain situations? I think you give catcher's and game calling far too little credit in how a game is called. If it was as you suggested, athletic catchers would be at more of a premium than cerebral catchers. And that is not the case. Why would some of the best pitchers in the game (maddux, Carlton) have personal caddys and would not pitch to certain catchers? It might be a comfort thing. Or superstition. Maybe the pitcher has his own idea on how to set up hitters. I just think that in the end, a pitcher has to make the pitch, and if he doesn't then he fails. I don't think catchers have much to do with the pitcher executing, and they have at most just some impact on the actual selection of the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxscott Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 if you dont like this trade, you are dumb. we ned depth at catcher, so we get a vet with a great glove who will hit for average, and give up a piece of sh*t who has had a lucky hot streak. We have kids in AA who can fill the void, of a body. great deal, lets make that run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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