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Questions about our Defense/Coaching staff


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Hey everyone, my first post here and I have a few questions. It looks like Jenkins is going to be a beast and with the signing of Pace and the drafting of Gholston we have the potential to have a special defense. I just don't know if our coaching staff is going to use them properly. Here are my concerns.

I was just reading some old posts at the Cards forum on Footballs Future when the Pace signing was imminent. Both Jet and Fin fans were questioning Paces talents/fit with their respective teams and the general consensus was that he is best suited for OLB/ pass rusher. The word beast was used frequently when describing him and the Card fans figured he only got 6.5 sacks because he was frequently double teamed.

Now on to Gholston. He got 14.5 sacks at OSU, one of the best conferences in the Nation. Yet all I hear based on the training camp reports is that he is "lost" or "swimming". In the first preseason game he was lost and only slightly better against Washington. The guy is a thoroughbred and it seems like we are turning him into a plow horse.

It seems to me that we have the personnel to destroy/terrorize opposing QB's with a Blitz happy defense, but I dont feel the coaching staff has the balls to bring it all the time. Why are we confusing Gholston with Gap concerns (I'm only kidding here, just a little) we drafted this guy to get after the QB, I say turn him and Pace loose. Let opposing teams worry about us rather than react to what they do. I want us to be feared, and I think we have the people to do it.

I also say put Lowery opposite Revis. Teams have no history on Lowery but they have a years worth of tape on Revis. If the QB is getting sick pressure he will avoid Revis and throw on Lowery, and that kid has sick hands and seems to have game speed.

In closing, let me just say that our defense on paper seems like we could give opposing DC's fits, but I think Mangini and Co wont use them this way. Thoughts and comments are welcomed.

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Hey everyone, my first post here and I have a few questions. It looks like Jenkins is going to be a beast and with the signing of Pace and the drafting of Gholston we have the potential to have a special defense. I just don't know if our coaching staff is going to use them properly. Here are my concerns.

I was just reading some old posts at the Cards forum on Footballs Future when the Pace signing was imminent. Both Jet and Fin fans were questioning Paces talents/fit with their respective teams and the general consensus was that he is best suited for OLB/ pass rusher. The word beast was used frequently when describing him and the Card fans figured he only got 6.5 sacks because he was frequently double teamed.

Now on to Gholston. He got 14.5 sacks at OSU, one of the best conferences in the Nation. Yet all I hear based on the training camp reports is that he is "lost" or "swimming". In the first preseason game he was lost and only slightly better against Washington. The guy is a thoroughbred and it seems like we are turning him into a plow horse.

It seems to me that we have the personnel to destroy/terrorize opposing QB's with a Blitz happy defense, but I dont feel the coaching staff has the balls to bring it all the time. Why are we confusing Gholston with Gap concerns (I'm only kidding here, just a little) we drafted this guy to get after the QB, I say turn him and Pace loose. Let opposing teams worry about us rather than react to what they do. I want us to be feared, and I think we have the people to do it.

I also say put Lowery opposite Revis. Teams have no history on Lowery but they have a years worth of tape on Revis. If the QB is getting sick pressure he will avoid Revis and throw on Lowery, and that kid has sick hands and seems to have game speed.

In closing, let me just say that our defense on paper seems like we could give opposing DC's fits, but I think Mangini and Co wont use them this way. Thoughts and comments are welcomed.

Being an eternal optimist, I hate you.

Just kidding. This is an outstanding first post. This is a very real concern. Sutton does not appear to have what it takes to drive this racecar defense Mr. T has bought him. The question is, does Mangini have the guts/ability to jump in the driver's seat when it doesn't perform as expected?

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Being an eternal optimist, I hate you.

Just kidding. This is an outstanding first post. This is a very real concern. Sutton does not appear to have what it takes to drive this racecar defense Mr. T has bought him. The question is, does Mangini have the guts/ability to jump in the driver's seat when it doesn't perform as expected?

We must be waiting for Ryan. Twice now in the past two years Mangini has had to jump in at the bye week and transform the defense. Hopefully they have learned from this. The passive approach does not work. Offenses are too sophisticated.

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Being an eternal optimist, I hate you.

Just kidding. This is an outstanding first post. This is a very real concern. Sutton does not appear to have what it takes to drive this racecar defense Mr. T has bought him. The question is, does Mangini have the guts/ability to jump in the driver's seat when it doesn't perform as expected?

I think it is evident based on the fact the Jets flirted with both Ryan brothers that Mangini does not totally trust Sutton. How short of a leash is there with Sutton is the big question

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Keep in mind that preseason football is mostly vanilla - no one really has any idea what Sutton (who I think is in over his head as a DC) or Mangini is going to actually do with the defense this year. On paper, it would seem that the Jets D should be bringing pressure from anywhere (the defensive secondary included) on the field - the personnel is in place. Whether or not that's what will happen - I guess we'll find out on 9/7. One could only hope that we'll see a more active and imposing defense this season.

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There is no excuse for this defense no performing week in and week out. I think its obvious that Sutton should have been fired, and Mangini MUST have him a a short leash this year (BYE WEEK). If its not working, he needs to step up like he did towards the end of last year and do it himself.

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Our defense does have great pass rushing potential, but we won't really be able to judge whether or not they're misuing it until the season starts. Obviously preseason defenses are very vanilla. Also, in terms of Gholston, he should be effective in getting to the QB but the goal is to make him an every down player not just situational. Why not have him work in coverage to sure up his weaknesses, especially when the games don't count? Once the season starts and he's still mostly in coverage then there's a legitamate beef. Eventually, he's gonna have to learn how to do more than just pass rush. As for Pace, to me he's looked fairly good in coverage and seems to be a solid all around player so I don't see anything wrong with giving him lots of different responsibilities.

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Hey everyone, my first post here and I have a few questions. It looks like Jenkins is going to be a beast and with the signing of Pace and the drafting of Gholston we have the potential to have a special defense. I just don't know if our coaching staff is going to use them properly. Here are my concerns.

I was just reading some old posts at the Cards forum on Footballs Future when the Pace signing was imminent. Both Jet and Fin fans were questioning Paces talents/fit with their respective teams and the general consensus was that he is best suited for OLB/ pass rusher. The word beast was used frequently when describing him and the Card fans figured he only got 6.5 sacks because he was frequently double teamed.

Now on to Gholston. He got 14.5 sacks at OSU, one of the best conferences in the Nation. Yet all I hear based on the training camp reports is that he is "lost" or "swimming". In the first preseason game he was lost and only slightly better against Washington. The guy is a thoroughbred and it seems like we are turning him into a plow horse.

It seems to me that we have the personnel to destroy/terrorize opposing QB's with a Blitz happy defense, but I dont feel the coaching staff has the balls to bring it all the time. Why are we confusing Gholston with Gap concerns (I'm only kidding here, just a little) we drafted this guy to get after the QB, I say turn him and Pace loose. Let opposing teams worry about us rather than react to what they do. I want us to be feared, and I think we have the people to do it.

I also say put Lowery opposite Revis. Teams have no history on Lowery but they have a years worth of tape on Revis. If the QB is getting sick pressure he will avoid Revis and throw on Lowery, and that kid has sick hands and seems to have game speed.

In closing, let me just say that our defense on paper seems like we could give opposing DC's fits, but I think Mangini and Co wont use them this way. Thoughts and comments are welcomed.

Great first post. Thanks for signing up and we look forward to many more posts like that.

What you said about Gholston blitzing? That might be his role. I don't think he will be on the field other than passing downs. I don't think they are going to give him too many responsibilities other than get the QB.

Sure in camp they have to throw everything at him. He has to understand the bigger picture. But when the games count if everyone in front of him stays healthy they can really use him to get the QB.

I think that is what you will see and hopefully he produces.

Pace? He was an interesting signing. Really good year in his contract year. Before that he didn't fit the system. Time will tell on him. Hopefully it isn't a case of having money to spend in free agency and spending it just for the sake of spending it.

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This defense is built to perform right from the first play from scrimmage. Bob Sutton in my opinion is one of the worsr defensive coordinators in the league.We need a pass rush for the secondary to be effective.But we must also be able to stop the run something that concerns me.

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hopefully with all the additions if one player gets double teamed someone else who wouldnt be double teamed should be able to steup up...Our LB's all have good pass rushing abilities and kris jenkins should be able to open up things for the rest of the D. Like i said in an earlier post, it is kenyon coleman and shaun ellis that make me a little nervous at the DE spots. But yes Bob sutton also makes me nervous about using this potentially great defense very conservatively (like mike heimerdinger used to do by running up the middle on 1st and 2nd and throwing on 3rd EVERY SINGLE TIME)

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Hopefully, Sutton's a$$ in on the line and he knows it. He just seems very conservative to me. Like Herm. Desperation often leads people to do what they would not normally do. Like a drowning man grabbing a snake.

Blitz!!!! Damnit.

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I never liked a passive defense -attacking at the line of scrimmage is what I would like to see from this group.

I agree, but I wouldn't expect them to go all Donnie Henderson. Remember, Mangini and Sutton are from the old BP/BB tree. A lot of bend but don't break crap. The important thing is to keep the blitz unpredictable, both in downs and where it comes from. Sutton doesn't really seem to understand that much or maybe they have the reins on him.

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I agree, but I wouldn't expect them to go all Donnie Henderson. Remember, Mangini and Sutton are from the old BP/BB tree. A lot of bend but don't break crap. The important thing is to keep the blitz unpredictable, both in downs and where it comes from. Sutton doesn't really seem to understand that much or maybe they have the reins on him.

You know things are bad when Kerry Rhodes is your leading sack man. We should have his element of surprise blitzing complement our regular guys up front pressuring the passer.

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You know things are bad when Kerry Rhodes is your leading sack man. We should have his element of surprise blitzing complement our regular guys up front pressuring the passer.

Yep. That's the whole purpose of the 3-4 and demanding smart, versatile players. Unpredictability. Zone blitzes, delayed blitzes, dropping unexpected guys into coverage, blitzing from anywhere. I don't care if Rhodes leads the team in sacks, I just care that the team ends up with a hell of a lot more than 30.

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Hey everyone, my first post here and I have a few questions. It looks like Jenkins is going to be a beast and with the signing of Pace and the drafting of Gholston we have the potential to have a special defense. I just don't know if our coaching staff is going to use them properly. Here are my concerns.

I was just reading some old posts at the Cards forum on Footballs Future when the Pace signing was imminent. Both Jet and Fin fans were questioning Paces talents/fit with their respective teams and the general consensus was that he is best suited for OLB/ pass rusher. The word beast was used frequently when describing him and the Card fans figured he only got 6.5 sacks because he was frequently double teamed.

Now on to Gholston. He got 14.5 sacks at OSU, one of the best conferences in the Nation. Yet all I hear based on the training camp reports is that he is "lost" or "swimming". In the first preseason game he was lost and only slightly better against Washington. The guy is a thoroughbred and it seems like we are turning him into a plow horse.

It seems to me that we have the personnel to destroy/terrorize opposing QB's with a Blitz happy defense, but I dont feel the coaching staff has the balls to bring it all the time. Why are we confusing Gholston with Gap concerns (I'm only kidding here, just a little) we drafted this guy to get after the QB, I say turn him and Pace loose. Let opposing teams worry about us rather than react to what they do. I want us to be feared, and I think we have the people to do it.

I also say put Lowery opposite Revis. Teams have no history on Lowery but they have a years worth of tape on Revis. If the QB is getting sick pressure he will avoid Revis and throw on Lowery, and that kid has sick hands and seems to have game speed.

In closing, let me just say that our defense on paper seems like we could give opposing DC's fits, but I think Mangini and Co wont use them this way. Thoughts and comments are welcomed.

This is a great first post but from watching Pace myself I think the reason he didn't get more than 6.5 sacks was because he's simply not that great a pass rusher. I've been trying to warn people off expecting that from him. From what I've seen of him he is exceptional vs the run and is great in coverage, I really couldn't believe that he had spent most of his career as a DE when he's much more suited to LB IMO, whether it's in a 3-4 or 4-3. He's a very good football player though, but I'd look for our pass rush to come from elsewhere (Gholston, Harris, Ellis etc.). If he had another 6.5 sack season I'd be thrilled. He's a massive upgrade over Thomas and Hobson.

I hope that Lowery can step up as much as anyone, if he cannot then I'll be very worried over the RCB spot. I have no fait in either Miller or Barrett.

I have never been a fan of Sutton and was desperately hoping we could pick up one of the Ryan Bros. in the offseason. That never came through, so were stuck with Bobby and Mangini controlling the D for another year. I'm not happy about that at all, but it's all we got and I have to hope they're good enough to get it done.

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You know things are bad when Kerry Rhodes is your leading sack man. We should have his element of surprise blitzing complement our regular guys up front pressuring the passer.

David Harris REALLY impressed me as a blitzing MLB. 5.5 sacks in 9 starts for a 3-4 MLB is absolutely ridiculous. I'd expect us to utilize him a lot more this season in pass rushing.

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David Harris REALLY impressed me as a blitzing MLB. 5.5 sacks in 9 starts for a 3-4 MLB is absolutely ridiculous. I'd expect us to utilize him a lot more this season in pass rushing.

Harris and Gholston coming up the gut opposing teams QB shaking in his cleats..............PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!!

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