2009 Yanks: 2 Guys I'm Not Sure What To Do With......

[JonEJet]

Bobby Abreu

Mike Mussina

These two guys I'm on the fence with. With Bobby you get consistent play, you know you have solid defense (besides being scared to death with the wall) great arm, and a guy that will drive in 100 runs

Moose is possibly having his best season...oiutside shot at winning 20 games

Our MVP this year

What to do, what to do?

Think we have to keep them both

[MagicBizkit87]

My personal opinion on those 2.

Mussina we have to keep. We choose Mussina over Andy Pettitte next year, because Andy Pettitte in my opinion doesn't want to be here anymore. It seems he's tired of baseball, and just doesn't care anymore.

Bobby Abreu in my opinion other then Derek Jeter, has tried his best all season. He may make a couple bonehead decisions here and there, but who doesn't? I wouldn't be pissed if we brought him back, and he seems to like New York, so I say bring those 2 back.

Everyone else, Giambi, Pettitte, Pavano, etc., need to go away, or retire.

[Maxman]

You have to let them both go. Moose is a tougher call. If he would sign a year deal (unlikely) or a two year with it being a club option or mutual option for the 2nd year I would do it. But as good a year as he had -- he is near the end.

Bobby? See ya. Nice guy I am sure. Makes too much money. Plays a terrible right field and doesn't hit as many home runs these days. They need Nady in RF next year because they are most likely stuck with Damon in LF (not a bad thing).

They must have a new CF next year. Someone that can run and is strong defensively.

I have no problem letting Moose, Giambi, Bobby, Pavano and a few others go. If they can trade Cano that is fine. This team needs an overhaul.

[JonEJet]

I don't know Max

This team needs a kick in the rear, but if Wang plays the entire year...we probably make the playoffs

Just saying

[MagicBizkit87]

You have to let them both go. Moose is a tougher call. If he would sign a year deal (unlikely) or a two year with it being a club option or mutual option for the 2nd year I would do it. But as good a year as he had -- he is near the end.

Bobby? See ya. Nice guy I am sure. Makes too much money. Plays a terrible right field and doesn't hit as many home runs these days. They need Nady in RF next year because they are most likely stuck with Damon in LF (not a bad thing).

They must have a new CF next year. Someone that can run and is strong defensively.

I have no problem letting Moose, Giambi, Bobby, Pavano and a few others go. If they can trade Cano that is fine. This team needs an overhaul.

I view Moose as a must bring back, I will not be happy if they don't bring him back next year. Bobby I could care less, it won't really have any sort of affect on me either way. The thing about Mussina, he won't be in the same amount of pressure he was this year. We'll sign C.C., then we'll have Wang. So basically he'd have to be the #3 for the time being, until Joba is ready to be a starter. To have Mussina as your 3/4 is a good thing to have.

The thing that may make you want to keep Abreu, is Hideki Matsui hasn't been close to healthy the last couple of seasons. Austin Jackson is not even close to MLB ready yet. Johnny Damon has the worst outfield arm in probably all the major leagues, Melky Cabrera sucks, Brett Gardner is young, and new, and all he is right now is speed, and finally Nady is good. Which is why it may be a good idea to keep Abreu for at least another season.

You figure this is what it may look like at the beginning of the 2009 seasons with the possible outfielders:

Hideki Matsui DH/LF

Brett Gardner CF

Melky Cabrera CF/LF

Xavier Nady LF/RF

Johnny Damon LF/CF

And of course Austin Jackson (CF), in Scranton.

Really as much as I like Matsui, he needs to be the one on the way out because of his injury issues, instead of Abreu.

[Bugg]

Seems the Yanks are very comfortable with Gardner having a role. Damon and Matsui are under contract, and they supposedly expect Austin Jackson to be part of the mix no later than ASB 2009. Nady is probably a lock for 1 corner OF spot no matter what. Which means unless Abreu can morph into 35 HR power or turn back the hands of time and become a 25 year old defensive asset in the OF, he's gone. There's no way he comes back.Bad enough we'll be seeing Damon and Matsui make a mess in the other corner OF spot(and clogging the DH spot), they cannot afford another year of having RF be a defensive liability too.

Mussina is a tough call. Between him and Pettitte, a decision has to be made, because you cannot bring back both. Given Pettitte's hsitry of injuries, think Mussina is a better bet, but may be just 1 year and a club option with a serious option buyout ofr 2010.And given his house in Penn. is a big thing, don't see Mussina signing anywhere but the Yankees or the Phillies.

[Barton]

This team needs to go into the season with 6 legit proven starters. I'd bring back both Moose AND Pettitte. And I would still sign Sabathia AND another starter. Its about time this 200 mill dollar team spends it on the rotation and has legit guys 1-6. Injuries and underperformances will happen - BE PREPARED, FRONT OFFICE MORONS!

Abreu busted his butt this year, but we should let him go.

[Nnamath]

This team needs to go into the season with 6 legit proven starters. I'd bring back both Moose AND Pettitte. And I would still sign Sabathia AND another starter. Its about time this 200 mill dollar team spends it on the rotation and has legit guys 1-6. Injuries and underperformances will happen - BE PREPARED, FRONT OFFICE MORONS!

Abreu busted his butt this year, but we should let him go.

confirm on every werd

[Bob]

Abreu is going to want a multi-year contract. Thanks for being one of thew few bright spots this year, Bobby, but see ya!

Mussina needs to stay. One year with a club option for more would be ideal, but I think the club should give him two and an option for three if that's what it takes to keep him.

I agree with the above statement that Pettitte just does not seem to want to do this anymore. I think the whole steroid thing and the strain on his friendship with Clemens took the heart out of him. He played this year because he felt obligated. I'll always appreciate what the guy did in his first stint with the Yanks, but it's time to retire. I think he will.

[anskyruben]

Pitching Pitching Pitching

/thread

[Scott Dierking]

This team needs a kick in the rear, but if Wang plays the entire year...we probably make the playoffs

Huh?

Wang is going to hit in the clutch too?

[Thai Jet]

I don't know Max

This team needs a kick in the rear, but if Wang plays the entire year...we probably make the playoffs

Just saying

:rl: Oh my thanks so much. I really needed a good hardy laugh today. Just sayin.....

[Thai Jet]

Huh?

Wang is going to hit in the clutch too?

He can't be any worse than AFraud.

[anskyruben]

If Wang didn't snap his gay ankle we WOULD be in the playoffs. We wouldn't of had to deal with Rasner/Ponson debacle. One more solid pitcher could've gotten us in. That being said, this team would lose in the first round. The lack of clutch hitting is an abortion .

[uart]

I'd keep both, unless their asking price was unreasonable for their age/etc.

I'm more on the fence with Pettitte. I wouldn't give him $16million to come back again, that's for sure.

[uart]

If Wang didn't snap his gay ankle we WOULD be in the playoffs. We wouldn't of had to deal with Rasner/Ponson debacle. One more solid pitcher could've gotten us in. That being said, this team would lose in the first round. The lack of clutch hitting is an abortion .

"Clutch" hitting is a myth.

What we need is CONSISTENT hitting. We need to get rid of the home-run-derby mentality and MANUFACTURE runs again. We do very little to that effect. As far as pitching was concerned: Wang would've made a huge difference to the rotation.

[Maxman]

I don't know Max

This team needs a kick in the rear, but if Wang plays the entire year...we probably make the playoffs

Just saying

I agree if Wang doesn't get hurt they probably make the postseason. But they would have gotten bounced early again. They need to be revamped.

[Maxman]

"Clutch" hitting is a myth.

What we need is CONSISTENT hitting. We need to get rid of the home-run-derby mentality and MANUFACTURE runs again. We do very little to that effect. As far as pitching was concerned: Wang would've made a huge difference to the rotation.

You know when clutch hitting wasn't a myth? When the Yankees were hitting in the clutch and winning the 1996 World Series.

[MagicBizkit87]

:rl: Oh my thanks so much. I really needed a good hardy laugh today. Just sayin.....

Oh yeah, having someone like Sidney Ponson, or Darrel Rasner pitch instead of Chien-Ming Wang doesn't really make a difference, and Yankees would have no way made it. Your so full of ****, and you know it. Chien-Ming is a back-to-back 19 game winner. They would have for sure made the playoffs if Chien-Ming was playing the whole season, no doubt about it in my mind.

[uart]

You know when clutch hitting wasn't a myth? When the Yankees were hitting in the clutch and winning the 1996 World Series.

You mean when the yankees could play a little small-ball? You manufacture runs when you need them. If you manufacture them regularly, then you get good at it.

See: Angels, Los Angeles of Anaheim.

[Scott Dierking]

It is good to see dreaming is not a lost art.

[Arsis]

It is good to see dreaming is not a lost art.

how many more games do you think the yanks win if wang is pitching instead of rasner who hasn't pitched into the 7th inning at all this season. 5-10 rasner with an almost 6 era who gave up 135 hits in 110 innings. Wang consistently went late in games which helped the bullpen and won more often then not. There is no way if you switch him and rasner you don't get at least 8 more wins for the yankees. Now this is a purely theoritical and hypothetical discussion and the fact is that Wang was out and the yanks didn't make the playoffs this year. But, to suggest that the yanks don't make it with a healthy Wang is just comical.

[Maxman]

You mean when the yankees could play a little small-ball? You manufacture runs when you need them. If you manufacture them regularly, then you get good at it.

See: Angels, Los Angeles of Anaheim.

Small ball is great. And the Yankees are terrible at it. Guys like Cano especially need to be able to bunt and advance runners. But what I was referring to is a team that could (Girardi) put the ball over the centerfielders head for a hit you never thought could happen and homer (Leyritz) just when you thought they were about to go down 3 to nothing.

Those are the clutch moments that Champions have.

[uart]

Small ball is great. And the Yankees are terrible at it. Guys like Cano especially need to be able to bunt and advance runners. But what I was referring to is a team that could (Girardi) put the ball over the centerfielders head for a hit you never thought could happen and homer (Leyritz) just when you thought they were about to go down 3 to nothing.

Those are the clutch moments that Champions have.

Clutch homers don't happen because you try for them. They happen because of a good pitch and a little bit of luck. In "clutch" situations you don't swing for the fences, you try not to make an out.

THESE Yankees, especially A-Rod and Giambi, swing for the fences in those situations, because they're under immense pressure to win it all right there and be a hero.

Fundamental, logical baseball strategy: don't make an out.

Swinging for the fences in that situation is like shooting a 3-pointer when you're only behind by one point, and your center is wide open in the paint. You SHOULD take the high-percentage shot.

[Matt39]

Clutch homers don't happen because you try for them. They happen because of a good pitch and a little bit of luck. In "clutch" situations you don't swing for the fences, you try not to make an out.

THESE Yankees, especially A-Rod and Giambi, swing for the fences in those situations, because they're under immense pressure to win it all right there and be a hero.

Fundamental, logical baseball strategy: don't make an out.

Swinging for the fences in that situation is like shooting a 3-pointer when you're only behind by one point, and your center is wide open in the paint. You SHOULD take the high-percentage shot.

Somewhere, Mike's head just exploded.

[Maxman]

Clutch homers don't happen because you try for them. They happen because of a good pitch and a little bit of luck. In "clutch" situations you don't swing for the fences, you try not to make an out.

THESE Yankees, especially A-Rod and Giambi, swing for the fences in those situations, because they're under immense pressure to win it all right there and be a hero.

Fundamental, logical baseball strategy: don't make an out.

Swinging for the fences in that situation is like shooting a 3-pointer when you're only behind by one point, and your center is wide open in the paint. You SHOULD take the high-percentage shot.

Well if Leyritz doesn't homer at that very moment in '96 the Yankees lose the series, possibly without winning a game. If Leyritz tried to not make an out and walked in that spot, most likely it would not have been good enough.

Call it what you want. I am calling it a "clutch" home run. You can argue that trying to be clutch is a problem instead of being productive. i.e. players trying to do too much. I would buy into that.

But I don't know of any word to describe what Leyritz did so I am sticking with clutch.

[Arsis]

Well if Leyritz doesn't homer at that very moment in '96 the Yankees lose the series, possibly without winning a game. If Leyritz tried to not make an out and walked in that spot, most likely it would not have been good enough.

Call it what you want. I am calling it a "clutch" home run. You can argue that trying to be clutch is a problem instead of being productive. i.e. players trying to do too much. I would buy into that.

But I don't know of any word to describe what Leyritz did so I am sticking with clutch.

The point is Leyritz is sitting up there trying to hit a home run on every pitch. He went up there trying to do they best he could and make sure he didn't get out and ended up hitting a home run as opposed to guys who go up there swinging for the fences and end up striking out.

[Maxman]

The point is Leyritz is sitting up there trying to hit a home run on every pitch. He went up there trying to do they best he could and make sure he didn't get out and ended up hitting a home run as opposed to guys who go up there swinging for the fences and end up striking out.

So swinging for a home run is okay when it works?

Guys we have no idea what these guys are thinking, what their approach is. I get and agree with the premise that one man can't do everything. That is why I want the Yankees to turn this roster over as much as possible. They need more contact, more small ball. I am on board with that.

The Yankees of the late 90's were clutch. Yes they had a great approach. But when they had their backs to the wall, most times someone came up with a big hit. Call if luck if you want, again I am sticking with lunch.

[uart]

Nonetheless, if you can play small ball and manufacture runs you will find yourself in less situations where you need a clutch hit/HR.

Those types of situations are memorable because they don't happen all that often. If you rely on that regularly, you will be disappointed. There are 162 games in a season, but nobody has ever hit more than 73 homeruns in a season. A MLB player averages 550 or so at-bats per season. So, even if someone broke that record with 75 HR, that means that only 14% of the player's at-bats would have resulted in a home-run.

I'd rather have a team full of .300 hitters with a good OBP, who play a little small-ball and rack up their RBIs without relying on the long-ball.

That's all.

[Arsis]

So swinging for a home run is okay when it works?

Guys we have no idea what these guys are thinking, what their approach is. I get and agree with the premise that one man can't do everything. That is why I want the Yankees to turn this roster over as much as possible. They need more contact, more small ball. I am on board with that.

The Yankees of the late 90's were clutch. Yes they had a great approach. But when they had their backs to the wall, most times someone came up with a big hit. Call if luck if you want, again I am sticking with lunch.

You've ever play baseball? There is a difference between hitting a homerun on a good swing or a great pitch and swinging for the fences and trying to hit pitches that you really can't hit out and forcing things. The difference is that if a pitcher gives you a pitch that you can drive the other way for a double chances are if you're swinging for the fences you're getting **** out of that pitch.

[Bugg]

The point is Leyritz is sitting up there trying to hit a home run on every pitch. He went up there trying to do they best he could and make sure he didn't get out and ended up hitting a home run as opposed to guys who go up there swinging for the fences and end up striking out.

But for Wade Boggs working a pinch hit walk the next inning, that moment doesn't matter much. Not that either is a bad thing, neither approach is wrong. Just another log on the fire.

[Maxman]

Nonetheless, if you can play small ball and manufacture runs you will find yourself in less situations where you need a clutch hit/HR.

Those types of situations are memorable because they don't happen all that often. If you rely on that regularly, you will be disappointed. There are 162 games in a season, but nobody has ever hit more than 73 homeruns in a season. A MLB player averages 550 or so at-bats per season. So, even if someone broke that record with 75 HR, that means that only 14% of the player's at-bats would have resulted in a home-run.

I'd rather have a team full of .300 hitters with a good OBP, who play a little small-ball and rack up their RBIs without relying on the long-ball.

That's all.

Hey I like the idea of being ahead and just watching Mo pitch the 9th with no stress along the way as well.

[Maxman]

You've ever play baseball? There is a difference between hitting a homerun on a good swing or a great pitch and swinging for the fences and trying to hit pitches that you really can't hit out and forcing things. The difference is that if a pitcher gives you a pitch that you can drive the other way for a double chances are if you're swinging for the fences you're getting **** out of that pitch.

I have either played or coached baseball each year for the past 33 years. You are saying something different though. Nobody is a bigger proponent of playing as a team than I am. At my son's travel baseball game this morning the 15 year old they were facing had a nasty curve ball. For two innings he was striking them out with it. Finally some kid kept his hands back and slapped it to right. Take what they give you.

Still not sure what any of this has to do with Girardi's shot to CF and Leyritz's home run in '96 though. Somehow this has gotten way off topic.

Back on topic -- unless Moose takes a reasonable short term contract they need to cut ties. And Bobby is gone either way.

[Arsis]

I have either played or coached baseball each year for the past 33 years. You are saying something different though. Nobody is a bigger proponent of playing as a team than I am. At my son's travel baseball game this morning the 15 year old they were facing had a nasty curve ball. For two innings he was striking them out with it. Finally some kid kept his hands back and slapped it to right. Take what they give you.

Still not sure what any of this has to do with Girardi's shot to CF and Leyritz's home run in '96 though. Somehow this has gotten way off topic.

Back on topic -- unless Moose takes a reasonable short term contract they need to cut ties. And Bobby is gone either way.

I'm saying that is the only way clutch hits happen. This Smaller ball produces more clutch sits because it has better situational hitting.

I agree on the moose thing sign him for a year or two, let him get 300 wins and be another hall of fame yankee.

[Maxman]

I'm saying that is the only way clutch hits happen. This Smaller ball produces more clutch sits because it has better situational hitting.

I agree on the moose thing sign him for a year or two, let him get 300 wins and be another hall of fame yankee.

I think we agree. Like uart said -- waiting on a miracle will leave you sad more days than not. I just wanted to plug Leyritz because he was my favorite of the baby bombers.