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Brett has a better feel as OC than Schott..let him call game


SouthernJet
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IMO the 3rd down efficiency was the biggest problem. They gained enough yards to win, but did not score for ****.

Obviously I would agree that 3rd down is the issue, but I think, the real problem was 2nd down.

We didn't end up in many 3rd and shorts because the game seemed to go, and this is off memory and not research, but:

1-10: Decent Gain

2-5: No Gain

3-5: Incomplete pass

I said it to my dad while watching it, seems to me like we're never getting anything on 2nd down, which killed us on 3rds.

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Obviously I would agree that 3rd down is the issue, but I think, the real problem was 2nd down.

We didn't end up in many 3rd and shorts because the game seemed to go, and this is off memory and not research, but:

1-10: Decent Gain

2-5: No Gain

3-5: Incomplete pass

I said it to my dad while watching it, seems to me like we're never getting anything on 2nd down, which killed us on 3rds.

Link? ;)

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Obviously I would agree that 3rd down is the issue, but I think, the real problem was 2nd down.

We didn't end up in many 3rd and shorts because the game seemed to go, and this is off memory and not research, but:

1-10: Decent Gain

2-5: No Gain

3-5: Incomplete pass

I said it to my dad while watching it, seems to me like we're never getting anything on 2nd down, which killed us on 3rds.

I'll agree with that. 3rd down efficiency is usually a result of what happens on 1st and 2nd. They obviously "adjusted" because our mediocre back got 150+, but it didn't correlate to points because they were hit and miss. 10 yard gain, 2 yard loss rather than the steady 4.5 you want. It wasn't particularly effective, but I don't feel that they didn't try or should be strung up over it.

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Everyone is frustrated with what is going on, but to presume that Favre can be the OC is silly. He was the main reason the Jets lost on Sunday. Not the only reason, but the main one.

I guarantee you a QB of Favre's stature has the ability to change the play at the LOS, and does. This thing about blaming the OC for the lack of a long ball is silly.

On every passing play receivers run different routes. Different depths. Some long, some short. There is a prime receiver, but a good QB goes through his reads, and takes what is given him.

A QB like Favre, with his strong arm, and gunslinger mentality, if his deep receiver is open is going to check off and toss the ball long. A QB like Pennington is going to stay with the short route, that is what he is best suited to do. Lil Schot certainly has responsibility for staying in the spread after the Raiders countered it, but Favre was horrible

No he doesn't actually, I remember seeing this mentioned earlier and both he and Schotty said he isn't allowed to call out of a play.

Chad mentioned it before too when he was here, and Schott claimed Chad was given several choices and he's the one who kept calling the dink and dunk stuff, although Schott didn't use those words, it was clearly the gist. So that is why I figured it was all Chad's fault.

Now I see that Favre is doing the exact same things, while Chad, even with his ****ty limited arm, is not doing the same thing. Judging by the track records, I don't think I'm going out on a limb here saying that Schott has full reign over his QBs.

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No he doesn't actually, I remember seeing this mentioned earlier and both he and Schotty said he isn't allowed to call out of a play.

Chad mentioned it before too when he was here, and Schott claimed Chad was given several choices and he's the one who kept calling the dink and dunk stuff, although Schott didn't use those words, it was clearly the gist. So that is why I figured it was all Chad's fault.

Now I see that Favre is doing the exact same things, while Chad, even with his ****ty limited arm, is not doing the same thing. Judging by the track records, I don't think I'm going out on a limb here saying that Schott has full reign over his QBs.

I'm assuming this is the article you were referring to. As I read it, he is unable to audible only in the jumbo package. Later in the article it is clear he did change calls with a different package in.

In a passing situation it is always the QB's decision which receiver to throw to. The prime receiver might be covered, and a QB can always go long if it is open.

This no audible situation is in a very limited situation. With the "Jumbo" goal line package in.

Brett Favre calls an audible, hints he can't always change the Jets' play

BY RICH CIMINI

DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Wednesday, September 17th 2008, 9:25 PM

amd_favre.jpg McIsaac/Getty Brett Favre watches as the Pats run out the clock in Sunday's loss.

Brett Favre tried Wednesday to douse his first New York brushfire. In the process, he may have sparked another one.

With an edge in his voice, Favre defended the coaches' conservative play calling during the infamous goal-line sequence in last Sunday's loss to the Patriots - three runs and a cloud of nothing.

"Hopefully, these questions will subside at some point," the Jets' quarterback said, expressing a hint of agitation.

The issue won't die because of the coaches' decision to take the ball out of the hands of a quarterback with 445 career touchdown passes. Favre unwittingly added another layer of intrigue to the matter, revealing that he didn't have the option of changing the play at the line of scrimmage.

"No, not on the goal line, no," Favre said. "There's nothing to check to. But I felt very confident in his decision to run the ball."

Nevertheless, it's odd that a quarterback, especially one with Favre's resume, wouldn't have the flexibility to call an audible into a different play based on the defensive look. Favre made his comments after Eric Mangini had addressed the media, and the coach wasn't available afterward.

It's quite likely that Favre wasn't allowed to audible because the Jets employed their jumbo package on all three plays - two backs and three tight ends, with backup tackle Wayne Hunter the third tight end. Some coaches are reluctant to use audibles with their big people because they believe it inhibits their aggressiveness.

Mangini apparently subscribes to that philosophy because, in a similar situation later in the game, there was an audible by Favre that resulted in a 1-yard touchdown pass to Chansi Stuckey. That came in a passing formation - three wide receivers and only one tight end.

Whether it was the personnel package or the play calls, Favre wasn't given the chance to throw. It fueled the outside theory that the coaches aren't letting Brett be Brett. Favre disagreed.

"I feel like the path we're on right now is the right path," he said.

Favre has attempted only 48passes in two games, his lowest back-to-back total in five years (not counting incomplete games). He described an open, give-and-take relationship with offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer. But he added, "Ultimately, we're judged by wins and losses. Schotty knows it, Eric knows it, on down the line."

Tight end Chris Baker scoffed at the notion that Favre was handcuffed, noting that the future Hall of Famer simply followed his reads and threw underneath the Patriots' deep coverage. They were so concerned about Favre's arm that their "safeties were 30yards away from the ball," according to Baker.

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It seems very much like they're not even watching film on the other teams. They just decide, well, this is what were going to do in this game, who cares what the defense tries?

And "BOOM" goes the dynamite. We don't run an offensive system of any kind. We just run "plays."

Super lame.

Exactly. I'm wondering throughout the last 2 games, "Is Mini-Schott paying attention to what the defense is doing?"

OT is a perfect example. The Raiders are overpursuing the run, have 8 men in the box, and the Jets run it 8 of 14 snaps in OT and not once calling a play action.

I can't remember the last time I was so angry at a play call after Jones was stuffed for a 2 yard loss on the Jets final drive. Raiders were hell bent on stopping the run on that play and any OC with a rudimentary sense of what the defense was doing would have called a playaction pass. Under those circumstances, I wouldn't have been surprised if Favre (even with a supposedly weakened arm) would have thrown a long TD to Cotchery like he did against Miami.

So, excellent observation, EY. It simply seems like the OC is not paying attention to what the defense is doing.

Thus, ultimately, it may have been just words when Mangini in his initial press conference that he was going to maximize his team's strengths and maximize the opponent's weaknesses.

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Thus, ultimately, it may have been just words when Mangini in his initial press conference that he was going to maximize his team's strengths and maximize the opponent's weaknesses.

Mangini is our biggest weakness and the fact that our opponents don't have him as their headcoach also is their biggest strength.

Funny that this offseason everyone was an apologist for Mangini and Schottenheimer since they didn't have the players to make their system work. Sutton however, under similar circumstances (not having the players) was not given any sympathy and people (fans) wanted his head.

Woody goes shopping and brings in new toys for both sides of the ball (a future HOF QB and HOF Guard on offense, a NT and pass rusher on defense). Sutton is stepping up and super-exceeding his expectations with his new toys. He's getting the most out of them and they're playing at a high-level. Mangini and Schottenheimer however look like the same old turds regardless.

Ironic.

Edited by JMJ
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Mangini is our biggest weakness and the fact that our opponents don't have him as their headcoach also is their biggest strength.

Funny that this offseason everyone was an apologist for Mangini and Schottenheimer since they didn't have the players to make their system work. Sutton however, under similar circumstances (not having the players) was not given any sympathy and people (fans) wanted his head.

Woody goes shopping and brings in new toys for both sides of the ball (a future HOF QB and HOF Guard on offense, a NT and pass rusher on defense). Sutton is stepping up and super-exceeding his expectations with his new toys. He's getting the most out of them and they're playing at a high-level. Mangini and Schottenheimer however look like the same old turds regardless.

Ironic.

Excellent point, JMJ.

Sutton had been getting killed the last 2 years although he was handicapped by having 3 of his most important defensive positions being manned by players illsuited for the role (NT, MLB & OLB).

The defense is playing well (when they put the effort) and the offense is playing by themselves without any care about what the defense is doing. Finally, Mangini and Mini-Schott are getting the heat.

I was happy with yesterday's Daily News backpage: "Wake Up, Man!" about Mangini.

Edited by SMC
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No he doesn't actually, I remember seeing this mentioned earlier and both he and Schotty said he isn't allowed to call out of a play.

Chad mentioned it before too when he was here, and Schott claimed Chad was given several choices and he's the one who kept calling the dink and dunk stuff, although Schott didn't use those words, it was clearly the gist. So that is why I figured it was all Chad's fault.

Now I see that Favre is doing the exact same things, while Chad, even with his ****ty limited arm, is not doing the same thing. Judging by the track records, I don't think I'm going out on a limb here saying that Schott has full reign over his QBs.

Actually that's exactly what he's doing :confused:

Anyway, I think you guys are arguing about who's more at fault (Favre or Mangini/Schott) when we should be agreeing that they both were.

I don't think any reasonable person would assert that Favre wasn't terrible on Sunday or that the play calling was anything other then atrocious.

The entire offense has looked out of synch out side of a quarter here and there, and has been grossly inconsistent all season. (part of this is perception btw, we've gotten used to consistency around here with the noodle arm).

I think we all should have expected exactly what we've seen given when Favre came aboard, but what I'm concerned about is that we aren't seeing any progress and have in fact regressed in the last 3 weeks. Very troubling, particularly since I suspect Favre hurt his shoulder against Cincy.

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Actually that's exactly what he's doing :confused:

Anyway, I think you guys are arguing about who's more at fault (Favre or Mangini/Schott) when we should be agreeing that they both were.

I don't think any reasonable person would assert that Favre wasn't terrible on Sunday or that the play calling was anything other then atrocious.

The entire offense has looked out of synch out side of a quarter here and there, and has been grossly inconsistent all season. (part of this is perception btw, we've gotten used to consistency around here with the noodle arm).

I think we all should have expected exactly what we've seen given when Favre came aboard, but what I'm concerned about is that we aren't seeing any progress and have in fact regressed in the last 3 weeks. Very troubling, particularly since I suspect Favre hurt his shoulder against Cincy.

Sadly, I agree with this post. Favre has not looked good at all except for one exceptional quarter. Looks like he was the wrong man for the job.

I have defended Mangini until this Sunday. The play calling in the entire game was weak. The spread offense just wasn't working. Favre was getting killed because the Raiders were blitzing every play, and there just weren't enough people to block them in the spread.

The OT was the clincher. Jets ran on every 1st down, and on 8 of 14 plays. Inspite of the fact that the Raiders were putting 9 men in the box and challenging Favre to beat them deep. The situation screamed for a game winning play action. None

I would think that it was clear that Favre's arm was injured. Why would they throw the ball so much if he were.

Very confusing.

Edited by flgreen
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