NAMATH: "There's an overall-concept problem with the team"

[Darth Vader]

On Air Response to question given to him in the Announcer's Box about the product he sees on the field (where FAVRE had just thrown again into double coverage on third down and missed badly, getting hit HARD in the process):

"It's not just the QB. There is an overall-concept problem with this team."

LOL. He doesn't give a sh!t. He knows it just needs to be said. Live, and on-air.

[J.E.T.S. JETS JETS JETS]

concept = coaching and it is a coaching problem joe is right.

[CTM]

This team just seems off overall. I can't disagree with Joe. We have specifc problems, like pass defense in offense, but the team is disjointed on offense, and as much as Favre has sucked, a big part of that falls on Mangini and Schott.

[Gyno-Tony]

heh, whateva, have another one Joe.

[Klecko73isGod]

This team just seems off overall. I can't disagree with Joe. We have specifc problems, like pass defense in offense, but the team is disjointed on offense, and as much as Favre has sucked, a big part of that falls on Mangini and Schott.

Does it?

I'm not so sure. Favre's picks can't be blamed on Mangini and they were the primary reasons this game was a close as it was.

If you didn't see this game but saw the stats, you'd think the Jets offense was dominant: 420 total yards, 135 rushing, 285 passing, 5.6 yards per carry, 54% third down conversion, 22 total first downs, 28 points.

Only the Jets can play this good and look this bad, it's bizarre.

[Darth Vader]

Does it?

I'm not so sure. Favre's picks can't be blamed on Mangini and they were the primary reasons this game was a close as it was.

If you didn't see this game but saw the stats, you'd think the Jets offense was dominant: 420 total yards, 135 rushing, 285 passing, 5.6 yards per carry, 54% third down conversion, 22 total first downs, 28 points.

Only the Jets can play this good and look this bad, it's bizarre.

It is bizarre. But I wouldn't say the Jets played good and looked bad.

I'd say played bad, looked bad - almost evil bad - and somehow found a way to come away 2-1 versus three of the worst teams in the NFL.

There was nothing good about the game but the result in the W column. Maybe Leon Washington, Cotch, Coles, Keller, Ellis, Keller, Bowens, if you want to give plumes for hats.

[Klecko73isGod]

It is bizarre. But I wouldn't say the Jets played good and looked bad.

I'd say played bad, looked bad - almost evil bad - and somehow found a way to come away 2-1 versus three of the worst teams in the NFL.

There was nothing good about the game but the result in the W column.

No, you don't put up those kind of numbers if you play bad. It's not possible.

Favre was the main problem today. He made some terrible decisions. The defense sacked Thigpen four times and held the Chiefs to 17 points.

Take away Favre's awful pick six and the Jets win this game 28-17 or 31-17 and we're all singing a different tune.

[serphnx]

Don't let the final yardage fool you. Most of that rush yardage was Leon's big TD run. And most of that pass yardage was really late in the game, I didn't think we'd crack 200 again for most of the game.

[CTM]

No, you don't put up those kind of numbers if you play bad. It's not possible.

Favre was the main problem today. He made some terrible decisions. The defense sacked Thigpen four times and held the Chiefs to 17 points.

Take away Favre's awful pick six and the Jets win this game 28-17 or 31-17 and we're all singing a different tune.

Giving props to the defense when the gave up nearly a perfect game to Thigpen is borderline stoopid

[Darth Vader]

No, you don't put up those kind of numbers if you play bad. It's not possible.

Favre was the main problem today. He made some terrible decisions. The defense sacked Thigpen four times and held the Chiefs to 17 points.

Take away Favre's awful pick six and the Jets win this game 28-17 or 31-17 and we're all singing a different tune.

It is possible.

For example, your quoting of statistics is flawed. let's take the running game today.

it appears you think we had one, quoting something like 5.something ypc. Take away leon washington's one big play - 60 yard run and what do you have?

22 rushes for 76 yards 3.45 ypc

Leon 2 for 7 yards

Jones 14 for 54 yards

Chatman 4 for 8

Coles 1 for 6

Smith 1 for 1

all against the #32 ranked rushing defense in the league.

the Jets didn't play good today.

[Klecko73isGod]

Giving props to the defense when the gave up nearly a perfect game to Thigpen is borderline stoopid

As far as I'm concerned, defenses are judged primarily on points allowed. They allowed 17 points. They did their job.

[Darth Vader]

As far as I'm concerned, defenses are judged primarily on points allowed. They allowed 17 points. They did their job.

consider the context kleck.

Tyler Thigpen, #3 QB in depth chart. 2007 7th round draft pick.

What? first start? Second start?

Larry Johnson? Not playing.

The Jets had a cake walk today and turned it into a food fight.

[CTM]

As far as I'm concerned, defenses are judged primarily on points allowed. They allowed 17 points. They did their job.

Yes, but too bad for them they were playing a team averaging 12 points a game and starting a third string Qb and backup RB..

Try and look it things a little below the surface..

If P. Manning was 25/36, 280 yards and 2TD, that's one thing. When Tyler ****ing Thigpen does it to you it's another..

[Klecko73isGod]

It is possible.

For example, your quoting of statistics is flawed. let's take the running game today.

it appears you think we had one, quoting something like 5.something ypc. Take away leon washington's one big play - 60 yard run and what do you have?

22 rushes for 76 yards 3.45 ypc

Leon 2 for 7 yards

Jones 14 for 54 yards

Chatman 4 for 8

Coles 1 for 6

Smith 1 for 1

all against the #32 ranked rushing defense in the league.

the Jets didn't play good today.

This is the weakest argument in the world. You can't take it away, it actually happened, therefore your premise is false.

Our primary rusher averaged just under 4 YPC. I have seen people complaining that he should have had at least 20 carries as if six more carries at that pace would have had some enormous impact on this game.

The Jets won the game because of and in spite of Brett Favre. Wrap your head around that for a while.

[Klecko73isGod]

Yes, but too bad for them they were playing a team averaging 12 points a game and starting a third string Qb and backup RB..

Try and look it things a little below the surface..

If P. Manning was 25/36, 280 yards and 2TD, that's one thing. When Tyler ****ing Thigpen does it to you it's another..

The D only allowed three points in the second half Chan. It's not like the Chiefs were rolling up and down the field all day.

[CTM]

The D only allowed three points in the second half Chan. It's not like the Chiefs were rolling up and down the field all day.

It's the chiefs. THE CHIEFS!

Understand?

[Klecko73isGod]

It's the chiefs. THE CHIEFS!

Understand?

Uhh yeah, and they held them to three points in the second half. Sorry, I can't blame the defense for Favre throwing a potentially game-killing pick six.

Favre doesn't throw that one and you're not bitching about the defense because the Jets win by at least 14, get it?

[CTM]

Uhh yeah, and they held them to three points in the second half. Sorry, I can't blame the defense for Favre throwing a potentially game-killing pick six.

Favre doesn't throw that one and you're not bitching about the defense because the Jets win by at least 14, get it?

Actually I've been bitching about the pass defense since the NE game and made numerous posts today about it..

Again, when your defense makes Tyler Thigpen look like Peyton Manning it's an issue.

[floridajet]

Does anyone here think we can beat the Bills, Pats, Denver, and the Rams playing like we did the last two games???

I certainly hope this staff wakes up and set up a better gameplan than we had the last 2 weeks.

[steJMike]

As far as I'm concerned, defenses are judged primarily on points allowed. They allowed 17 points. They did their job.

Tyler Thigpen looked like a hall of famer out there. that can't happen.

[Darth Vader]

This is the weakest argument in the world. You can't take it away, it actually happened, therefore your premise is false.

Our primary rusher averaged just under 4 YPC. I have seen people complaining that he should have had at least 20 carries as if six more carries at that pace would have had some enormous impact on this game.

The Jets won the game because of and in spite of Brett Favre. Wrap your head around that for a while.

stop, just stop. the point is that the stats are skewed. for 95% of carries the Jets had a very pedestrian running game.

against the worst run defense in the league.

you are placing too much weight on one carry.

[dbatesman]

Yes, but too bad for them they were playing a team averaging 12 points a game and starting a third string Qb and backup RB.

This is a terrific stat, and a consistent one. Stole this from Jason423 at JI:

The Patsies average about 17 a game. We let them get 19.

The Chargers average around 28 we gave up 48

The Cards average near 30 we gave up 35

Cincy scores 14 we allowed 14

Oakland scores 16 we gave up 16

Now you can add the Chiefs to the list.

You can give me whatever stats you want. To me, this is the stat that matters--it means we're playing down to the level of our competition, or just plain getting beat.

It's even more maddening because this defense now has the horses to be special, and it's not. It's merely above average, if that.

[CTM]

This is a terrific stat, and a consistent one. Stole this from Jason423 at JI:

The Patsies average about 17 a game. We let them get 19.

The Chargers average around 28 we gave up 48

The Cards average near 30 we gave up 35

Cincy scores 14 we allowed 14

Oakland scores 16 we gave up 16

Now you can add the Chiefs to the list.

You can give me whatever stats you want. To me, this is the stat that matters--it means we're playing down to the level of our competition, or just plain getting beat.

It's even more maddening because this defense now has the horses to be special, and it's not. It's merely above average, if that.

I miss Jason and his efficiency stats. But yea, this defense is a problem, specifically pass defense.

[fastmover]

This game was like getting teeth pulled, even though we won it gave me a killer headache!!! Schotty just plain blows, he did'nt even bother to try to establish a run game on the worst run defense in the league (until late in the second half). I beleive the flat refusal to try to run in the 1st half handicapped our offense and put extra pressure on Brett to make things happen, hence the passes into double coverage that was picked off. As soon as they switched to the power I formation we started to put together drives together. Why are we not using more of the power I and shotgun's, no playactions, we just use the spread and when we want to run out of the spread we have to use an end around, woow that's pretty easy for defense's to prepare for. Also it seems to me our offensive problems were not all Chad's fault.

It seems to me, that Schotty and Mangini think they can buck the traditional ways' to call a game, like it is beneath them to use common plays. They seem to be really good at keeping the fan's off balance, but just cant seem to keep the opposing d off balance. Some times you cant always go against the grain and be successfull.

Semper fi

[Darth Vader]

Main Stream Media echoing the threads sentiments. Seems that the ears are on the ground on this one:

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/11063496

1. I'm sorry, I can't take the New York Jets seriously. They would've lost a third consecutive to the AFC West if Chiefs linebacker Derrick Johnson hadn't dropped an easy interception on a second-half touchdown drive. So they lose to San Diego and Oakland (a combined 5-10) and rally to catch hapless Kansas City. Great. "I see a problem with the overall concept of our team," Joe Namath told CBS' Greg Gumbel at halftime. I'm with you, Joe.

2. I said it before, and I'll say it again: The Jets would be better off with Chad Pennington. I don't care that he doesn't throw the ball downfield; he doesn't make needless interceptions.

(continued)...

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2008/10/26/2008-10-26_a_protest_worthy_of_1968_joe_namath_don_.html

... Joe Namath criticizes the Jets and the NFL.

While the Jets basked in the glory of their 1968 Super Bowl season, a few of those players who brought the franchise its only championship wondered about the state of the current Jets. Legendary quarterback Joe Namath questioned the Jets' offense Sunday and his wide receiver Don Maynard took a swipe at the Jets' current coach.

Namath went on the television broadcast in the third quarter of the Jets' 28-24 win over the Chiefs and said he was concerned "about the overall concept of our team, not the quarterback, right now.

"I know they are trying, but today they are making Kansas City look good," Namath continued. "A quarterback is gonna get hit, no doubt about that, but the accumulation of the bumps and bruises must have (Brett Favre) at the most fragile as at any point in his career."

Maynard, Namath's favorite receiver, was more general. Before Sunday's game at the Meadowlands, he lamented the lack of experience among coaches in the NFL, including that of Jets head coach Eric Mangini.

"You have 106 coaches in the NFC that's never played pro ball, you got 126 in the AFC that's never played pro ball," Maynard said. "You got 64 coaches that never played college football, so now you know why the knowledge of pro football has gone downhill. They don't even do what we did in offenses and defenses."

Mangini played at Wesleyan University, but not professionally. Prior NFL playing experience has not been a clear indicator of recent coaching success as three of the past five coaches to win a Super Bowl (the Giants' Tom Coughlin, the Patriots' Bill Belichick and the Buccaneers' Jon Gruden) never played pro ball.

Maynard also ripped Coughlin just before last season's Super Bowl. He was upset with Coughlin's heated reaction to Lawrence Tynes' missed field goal in the NFC Championship Game.

Maynard's main point of contention with today's NFL seemed to be the conservative play-calling.

"One situation I see a lot is that when it's third-and-10, these guys need to learn that you need (10) yards to get a first down, not one- or two- or three-yard passes," Maynard said.

Then, turning back to the spirit of the day, he put his hand on Namath's shoulder.

"This guy never once put it for less yardage than he needed for a first down. At that time, when you needed a touchdown, he went for the touchdown."