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Number 75 is reporting as eligible: Or, how our offensive is blatantly predictable.


ZachEY

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I was at the game today, and had the pleasure, interesting vantage point of sitting in section 301, which is upper deck, endzone. Essentially, the field to me looked like it would if one were playing Madden.

I'll start by saying this game was close, and almost lost because of Brett Favre, and only won because of Leon Washington. However, when I can sit, seeing the whole field, and based on the formation, know what's coming, well, that's a problem.

The Jets, as far as I could tell had 3 basic formations today.

The first, the 'big' package, with '#75 reporting as eligible', was our running formation. It was pretty much the only time we had a back directly behind Favre, and pretty much always a run. The only exception was the 3rd and 1 where we threw long, and really should have run it. I loved when we did it in Arizona, but it works because of the element of surprise. We've seen it before, and recently, so we had double coverage instead of a receiver wide open. Does anyone know if it was #75's birthday or something that we needed to have him this involved?

The second was a back split just off to the side and behind Favre. This was a pass formation. The runningback came out of the backfield as a target, and the receivers ran their routes. I believe we ran out of this formation twice. Once on a reverse. Once on a pitch out to Leon. The reverse was a success, but when we lined up in this formation, the defense basically knew we were passing.

Then, of course, the 5 reciever set, which has proven so successful for this team........ Not so much. Empty backfield, obviously no running options, so again defense knows pass.

And that's it. Basically 3 formations, all of which telegraphed what type of formation we ran. In the past, I thought the offense was unimaginative, but now I'm starting to believe that we are completely telegraphing what we do based on the way we line up. It seems to me, exceedingly predictable and that's the reason the offense (mistakes nonwithstanding) becomes wholly ineffective.

I don't sit in meetings, so I couldn't say if it's Mangini, Shottenheimer, or some combination of the two, but something has to change, and it has to change from the way we line up.

*My first thread on Jet Nation.

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The lack of formation variety-play call has been a concern for me as well. It gives the defense an advantage.

I don't mind having so few formations, but I wished they called more, different plays from these formations. Heck, if I remember correctly, the SB champion Cowboys had only 2 formations, but they called a variety of different plays out of them.

Favre has been here long enough to do that.

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The lack of formation variety-play call has been a concern for me as well. It gives the defense an advantage.

I don't mind having so few formations, but I wished they called more, different plays from these formations. Heck, if I remember correctly, the SB champion Cowboys had only 2 formations, but they called a variety of different plays out of them.

Favre has been here long enough to do that.

The problem is, not so much the # of formations, though I would like to see a few more, but rather, that the formation basically dictates the play that's coming. I sat there and was able to guess run or pass with near flawless accuracy today.

I figure I have slightly more football knowledge than Herm, but he must know something to be able to figure that out.

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The problem is, not so much the # of formations, though I would like to see a few more, but rather, that the formation basically dictates the play that's coming. I sat there and was able to guess run or pass with near flawless accuracy today.

I figure I have slightly more football knowledge than Herm, but he must know something to be able to figure that out.

That was my point as well, although I inartfully stated it.

The formations they use reveals what play they're going to use, which is not a good thing.

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That was my point as well, although I inartfully stated it.

The formations they use reveals what play they're going to use, which is not a good thing.

I'll agree that this may be a recurring theme with this staff. It seems with Brad Smith they have the perfect guy to use as a RB/WR with that spread formation. Force the other team to add a DB and then run. Isn't the purpose of having all this versatility?

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I'll agree that this may be a recurring theme with this staff. It seems with Brad Smith they have the perfect guy to use as a RB/WR with that spread formation. Force the other team to add a DB and then run. Isn't the purpose of having all this versatility?

See, my feeling is to the contrary. We don't need to get cute with Brad Smith. We don't need, we just need to line up in a way that it doesn't telegraph what we're doing. I don't want Brad Smith carrying the ball as a typical RB, as he's likely to fumble (he can't take those hits)... but I'm telling you, we don't need to trick people to win, we just need a few more formations and looks that our opponents have to prepare for a run, or a pass. Today, we really didn't have that.

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Apparently too much motion and shifting is too much for a future HOF QB to handle. :rolleyes:

I am not sure why he was panicking like that. His interceptions came on 1st down, 2nd and 7 and when they were going in for the score (pick six). All three were terrible decisions.

Strange performance from Brett today. Just glad they got out with a win.

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See, my feeling is to the contrary. We don't need to get cute with Brad Smith. We don't need, we just need to line up in a way that it doesn't telegraph what we're doing. I don't want Brad Smith carrying the ball as a typical RB, as he's likely to fumble (he can't take those hits)... but I'm telling you, we don't need to trick people to win, we just need a few more formations and looks that our opponents have to prepare for a run, or a pass. Today, we really didn't have that.

Yeah you are right. I guess I kind of look at that spread, especially with these WRs, as kind of gimmick already. If they were going to stay cute they could do the same thing by motioning Leon split too.

I am not sure why he was panicking like that. His interceptions came on 1st down, 2nd and 7 and when they were going in for the score (pick six). All three were terrible decisions.

Strange performance from Brett today. Just glad they got out with a win.

Maybe all the hits are hurting his delicate psyche.

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I was at the game today, and had the pleasure, interesting vantage point of sitting in section 301, which is upper deck, endzone. Essentially, the field to me looked like it would if one were playing Madden.

I'll start by saying this game was close, and almost lost because of Brett Favre, and only won because of Leon Washington. However, when I can sit, seeing the whole field, and based on the formation, know what's coming, well, that's a problem.

The Jets, as far as I could tell had 3 basic formations today.

The first, the 'big' package, with '#75 reporting as eligible', was our running formation. It was pretty much the only time we had a back directly behind Favre, and pretty much always a run. The only exception was the 3rd and 1 where we threw long, and really should have run it. I loved when we did it in Arizona, but it works because of the element of surprise. We've seen it before, and recently, so we had double coverage instead of a receiver wide open. Does anyone know if it was #75's birthday or something that we needed to have him this involved?

The second was a back split just off to the side and behind Favre. This was a pass formation. The runningback came out of the backfield as a target, and the receivers ran their routes. I believe we ran out of this formation twice. Once on a reverse. Once on a pitch out to Leon. The reverse was a success, but when we lined up in this formation, the defense basically knew we were passing.

Then, of course, the 5 reciever set, which has proven so successful for this team........ Not so much. Empty backfield, obviously no running options, so again defense knows pass.

And that's it. Basically 3 formations, all of which telegraphed what type of formation we ran. In the past, I thought the offense was unimaginative, but now I'm starting to believe that we are completely telegraphing what we do based on the way we line up. It seems to me, exceedingly predictable and that's the reason the offense (mistakes nonwithstanding) becomes wholly ineffective.

I don't sit in meetings, so I couldn't say if it's Mangini, Shottenheimer, or some combination of the two, but something has to change, and it has to change from the way we line up.

*My first thread on Jet Nation.

Nice first thread. I can tell already that you are gonna be welcomed addition around here. Sounds to me like you guys are having the same offensive issues that my team has. Not a good sign, man. Hopefully things start working themselves out or BOTH teams will be firing OC's.

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Nice first thread. I can tell already that you are gonna be welcomed addition around here. Sounds to me like you guys are having the same offensive issues that my team has. Not a good sign, man. Hopefully things start working themselves out or BOTH teams will be firing OC's.

Thanks.

Giants were blitzing the hell out of you guys late. Ben didn't look like he could handle it. You guys needed to complete some quick slants and get that YAC. It wasn't happening.

They're 6-1 for a reason, but proving to be vulnerable. We'll see how it shakes out w/ them come playoff time.

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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say if you watch the game over again, you'll see more than 3 formations ;), and you have to also factor in personnel packages

as far as predictability goes, everyone was predicting the jets to pound jones, and they came out passing with favre

my problem with shotty is he seems to never attack a weakness like the NFL's worst run defense

I commend him for trying to pass to get a lead, but when he had a lead, he still kept passing

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Thanks.

Giants were blitzing the hell out of you guys late. Ben didn't look like he could handle it. You guys needed to complete some quick slants and get that YAC. It wasn't happening.

They're 6-1 for a reason, but proving to be vulnerable. We'll see how it shakes out w/ them come playoff time.

Yeah, well we started a backup LT, backup RG and basically a platooner at RT today so all things considered i'm not too unhappy with the line play. Ya think ole' Bruce Arians would have definately went no-huddle and hit em' with the quick passes that worked so well in previous weeks.... Nah, he's a moron who will ultimately stand between the Steelers and a SB run this year IMO.

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I was at the game today, and had the pleasure, interesting vantage point of sitting in section 301, which is upper deck, endzone. Essentially, the field to me looked like it would if one were playing Madden.

I'll start by saying this game was close, and almost lost because of Brett Favre, and only won because of Leon Washington. However, when I can sit, seeing the whole field, and based on the formation, know what's coming, well, that's a problem.

The Jets, as far as I could tell had 3 basic formations today.

The first, the 'big' package, with '#75 reporting as eligible', was our running formation. It was pretty much the only time we had a back directly behind Favre, and pretty much always a run. The only exception was the 3rd and 1 where we threw long, and really should have run it. I loved when we did it in Arizona, but it works because of the element of surprise. We've seen it before, and recently, so we had double coverage instead of a receiver wide open. Does anyone know if it was #75's birthday or something that we needed to have him this involved?

The second was a back split just off to the side and behind Favre. This was a pass formation. The runningback came out of the backfield as a target, and the receivers ran their routes. I believe we ran out of this formation twice. Once on a reverse. Once on a pitch out to Leon. The reverse was a success, but when we lined up in this formation, the defense basically knew we were passing.

Then, of course, the 5 reciever set, which has proven so successful for this team........ Not so much. Empty backfield, obviously no running options, so again defense knows pass.

And that's it. Basically 3 formations, all of which telegraphed what type of formation we ran. In the past, I thought the offense was unimaginative, but now I'm starting to believe that we are completely telegraphing what we do based on the way we line up. It seems to me, exceedingly predictable and that's the reason the offense (mistakes nonwithstanding) becomes wholly ineffective.

I don't sit in meetings, so I couldn't say if it's Mangini, Shottenheimer, or some combination of the two, but something has to change, and it has to change from the way we line up.

*My first thread on Jet Nation.

Couldn't agree more.

Reminds me of last year the formation with Thomas Jones by himself 7 yards back. Even on the TV screen they flashed a stat that the Jets were likely to run up the middle like 95% of the time in that formation (or whatever the stat was).

If the network is aware of it, I'm fairly certain the opposing DC is aware of it.

And if fans can spot this from the stands, I don't think it's a stretch to say our opponents can spot it also.

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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say if you watch the game over again, you'll see more than 3 formations ;), and you have to also factor in personnel packages

as far as predictability goes, everyone was predicting the jets to pound jones, and they came out passing with favre

my problem with shotty is he seems to never attack a weakness like the NFL's worst run defense

I commend him for trying to pass to get a lead, but when he had a lead, he still kept passing

I am sure I would. And I thought I alluded to that in my original post. The point was, there were 3 that were used primarily, and when used, there was almost no variation in the simplest form of run/pass.

I'm not talking about pregame predictions at all. I'm talking about lining up in a formation that screams run, and running. Then, lining up in a formation that screams pass, and passing. The overall philosophy is not as important because they have all game to adjust to it.

And again, I'm not even saying we passed too much (though I believe we did), I'm saying it was painfully obvious when we were going to pass, and painfully obvious when we were going to run.

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I am sure I would. And I thought I alluded to that in my original post. The point was, there were 3 that were used primarily, and when used, there was almost no variation in the simplest form of run/pass.

I'm not talking about pregame predictions at all. I'm talking about lining up in a formation that screams run, and running. Then, lining up in a formation that screams pass, and passing. The overall philosophy is not as important because they have all game to adjust to it.

And again, I'm not even saying we passed too much (though I believe we did), I'm saying it was painfully obvious when we were going to pass, and painfully obvious when we were going to run.

Holy sh#t. You mean to tell me I can predict 99% of the time if the Jets are going to run or pass is NOT because I can read minds???

Excellent post. We are the joke of the NFL. Thank GOD we have a pretty fair amount of talent or we would be winless.

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Holy sh#t. You mean to tell me I can predict 99% of the time if the Jets are going to run or pass is NOT because I can read minds???

Excellent post. We are the joke of the NFL. Thank GOD we have a pretty fair amount of talent or we would be winless.

Unfortunately, your telepathy is based more on Brian Shottenheimer and Eric Mangini rather than any sixth sense.

Your future as a telephone psychic looks bleak. Very bleak.

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The first, the 'big' package, with '#75 reporting as eligible', was our running formation. It was pretty much the only time we had a back directly behind Favre, and pretty much always a run. The only exception was the 3rd and 1 where we threw long, and really should have run it. I loved when we did it in Arizona, but it works because of the element of surprise. We've seen it before, and recently, so we had double coverage instead of a receiver wide open. Does anyone know if it was #75's birthday or something that we needed to have him this involved?

The answer to this is as follows.

Baker injured a hip before the game, and as result the Jets needed a body to fill the gap.

But, Bubba Franks was inactive today, and Keller, I'm not sure, but the CS probably has little faith in his blocking ability or playbook knowledge in the set.

So in essence, their last minute adjustment was to stick another Tackle in there.

Enter Robert Turner, specifically game-planned into week 8 as Chris Baker in lieu of a real TE. Note, that the CS chose overtly not to have receiving option in there, eg Keller.

So, I don't think this is indicative of the CS using generic sets from game to game in the offense as a whole (although they do do this), but it was definitely an indication of the CS's tendencies in decision making. It was an obvious tell. I don't see how you don't use Keller there at ALL.

There was simply no back-up plan in place for the "regular TE" today!!!!!!!

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#75 is eligible is stuck in my head also.What about a 2 TE formation or 5 wide.

I'm pretty sure this is because both Franks and Baker did not play. They were down to Keller and Dearth, and after watching the Steelers LS go down today, I'm glad they don't play Dearth.

They kept using him because they had no other TE's.

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So, I don't think this is indicative of the CS using generic sets from game to game in the offense as a whole (although they do do this), but it was definitely an indication of the CS's tendencies in decision making. It was an obvious tell. I don't see how you don't use Keller there at ALL.

There was simply no back-up plan in place for the "regular TE" today!!!!!!!

Nice posts EY and Blackbird -

From Mehta's article in the Ledger on Fri:

When the Jets (3-3) face the Kansas City Chiefs (1-5) Sunday at the Meadowlands, Schottenheimer's play-calling will be under the microscope again. The second-guessing, of course, isn't anything new for the offensive coordinator, who was universally shredded for his choice to run Jones three consecutive times on first-and-goal inside the 5-yard line in a Week 2 loss to the Patriots.

Asked about his offensive philosophy, Schottenheimer channeled head coach Eric Mangini.

"We're a game-plan specific team," Schottenheimer said. "This week's plan is going to be different than last week. You try to mix in personnel. You try to mix in schemes. Just to keep the defense guessing."

I think smarty threw a party and nobody came. It's all the prep and all the practice to be so prepared for the team thats last in the NFL in run D - then there's a personel change and this is the back-up plan? I think both of these guys (EM & BS) need to go back in the ranks and be assistants again - maybe forever. They're both too smart to be good head coaches and coordinators.

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The answer to this is as follows.

Baker injured a hip before the game, and as result the Jets needed a body to fill the gap.

But, Bubba Franks was inactive today, and Keller, I'm not sure, but the CS probably has little faith in his blocking ability or playbook knowledge in the set.

So in essence, their last minute adjustment was to stick another Tackle in there.

Enter Robert Turner, specifically game-planned into week 8 as Chris Baker in lieu of a real TE. Note, that the CS chose overtly not to have receiving option in there, eg Keller.

So, I don't think this is indicative of the CS using generic sets from game to game in the offense as a whole (although they do do this), but it was definitely an indication of the CS's tendencies in decision making. It was an obvious tell. I don't see how you don't use Keller there at ALL.

There was simply no back-up plan in place for the "regular TE" today!!!!!!!

Not that this doesn't make a lot of sense.

But can we not run out of a formation that doesn't include a TE, or fake TE?

Or pass out of one that isn't a shotgun, empty backfield?

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From Mehta's article in the Ledger on Fri:

When the Jets (3-3) face the Kansas City Chiefs (1-5) Sunday at the Meadowlands, Schottenheimer's play-calling will be under the microscope again. The second-guessing, of course, isn't anything new for the offensive coordinator, who was universally shredded for his choice to run Jones three consecutive times on first-and-goal inside the 5-yard line in a Week 2 loss to the Patriots.

Asked about his offensive philosophy, Schottenheimer channeled head coach Eric Mangini.

"We're a game-plan specific team," Schottenheimer said. "This week's plan is going to be different than last week. You try to mix in personnel. You try to mix in schemes. Just to keep the defense guessing."

There in lies the problem. Mini-Schott thinks he is making the defense guess, but they know exactly what's going to happen.

That was one of the big things that pissed me off about the pick 6. 3rd & 2 and Favre is in the shotgun/spread. The defense knows what's coming. If Favre was under center the Chiefs would have had to play for run and the pass.

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Depending on how you look at it, I unfortunately or Fortunately did not get to watch the game this weekend. I was happy with us getting Favre because that would mean maybe more TV time for us. But then the Jets showed who they are and will always be and the networks would be dumb to show us on TV again. Ima lso not a professional, but I know this. Mangini must go, or atleast do what Herm did and blame it on all the Coordinators first and see what happens. I liked when we hired the young OC, thought for a second he would do different things, NOT! The DC i did not like from day one. Is it me or wouldn't Westhoff be good, he looks like he wants to go out there and play , thats some passion we need. I see Mangini as being scared and just cant afford to show it. He's way over his head, and we are the ones who suffer. The players atleast, they get their multi-million dollar checks, and Thomas Jones (i actually like this guy) gets to go home and cuddle with fine ass Meagan Good. What do we get...Same ole jets.

Sorry Guys, I had to vent. And to think, I got my little nephew and neices to be Jets fans, I their uncle just gave them a lifetime of suffering just like my dad gave to me.

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Not that this doesn't make a lot of sense.

But can we not run out of a formation that doesn't include a TE, or fake TE?

Or pass out of one that isn't a shotgun, empty backfield?

yeah, i mean i don't get the "Rigidity" of "The System" which itself professes "Flexibility".

more on this to come in my next blog.

:animal0029:

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FYI Bubba was out and Baker was dressed but was hurt or something during warm ups and didn't play so an offensive linemen was used in "Big Sets" and has to report to the Ref..

And Mangini in his postgame press conference said that was the reason they didn't run more.

But you have to wonder, against such a horrible run defense, is Baker and Bubba being out that much of a factor?

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