It's Not Just Us; Jet Players Question Game Plan As Well

[SMC]

This is a passage from Canizzarro's article today:

It was as if Schottenheimer woke up in a cold sweat this morning and thought he saw Dick Butkus, Jack Lambert and Jack Ham playing linebacker for the Chiefs and abandoned the running game. Jones was coming off of a 159-yard rushing day last Sunday against the Raiders, his career-high as a Jet, and was second in the AFC in rushing yards. Yet there he was with only five carries in the first half.

***

When several players on offense were asked about this freaky strategy, the question was met with a lot of eye rolling and shrugged shoulders.

"Believe me, we're thinking the same thing you're thinking,'' one player said.

"I know the stats,'' New York Jets RT Damien Woody said. "We look at them just like you guys do.''

Apparently, Schottenheimer, who isn't permitted to talk to reporters after games, doesn't look at them.

When Eric Mangini was asked about the lack of commitment to the running game, he said vaguely, "We looked at different things we liked and went with those things. We thought we had real good opportunities in the passing game.''

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10262008/sports/jets/jets_survive_lowly_chiefs_135415.htm?page=2

It's apparent to me that Mini-Schott and Mangini don't have a clue right now. I hope they find one for the rest of the season.

[CTM]

This is a passage from Canizzarro's article today:

It's apparent to me that Mini-Schott and Mangini don't have a clue right now. I hope they find one for the rest of the season.

Actually imo what's clear is that Mangini caved to the tremendous amount of media pressure (local and national) about misusing Favre after the NE game. All the talking heads were talking about taking the reigns off of Favre and it seems Manigni has responded by going too far in the opposite direction.

Can't we have some fricken balance? Run the ball, let Favre use play action which he does very well.. Let him throw it short to set up deep plays. Just run a balanced offense.

[ZachEY]

I'm sure the following is wrong, I mean, it just has to be, right?

It looks (sounds?) to me like EM and BS are just spitting in the face of conventional wisdom for the sake of saying 'you can't tell us what to do, we'll call the game however we want'.

I mean, it seems so obvious what should be done, and then it isn't. Worst run defense in the league... let's spread it out, 5 WR sets, empty backfields... not so much as a draw, a playaction to be found...

It's almost like they're saying F-U to everyone.

[Thai Jet]

This is a passage from Canizzarro's article today:

It's apparent to me that Mini-Schott and Mangini don't have a clue right now. I hope they find one for the rest of the season.

Thanks for the info SMC. I just hope the CS get there **** together. In next weeks game against Buffalo they're gonna need it.

[afosomf]

Thanks for the info SMC. I just hope the CS get there **** together. In next weeks game against Buffalo they're gonna need it.

i thought next weeks game was arkansas St:D

[Thai Jet]

I'm sure the following is wrong, I mean, it just has to be, right?

It looks (sounds?) to me like EM and BS are just spitting in the face of conventional wisdom for the sake of saying 'you can't tell us what to do, we'll call the game however we want'.

I mean, it seems so obvious what should be done, and then it isn't. Worst run defense in the league... let's spread it out, 5 WR sets, empty backfields... not so much as a draw, a playaction to be found...

It's almost like they're saying F-U to everyone.

They'll be saying FU to there jobs soon if they don't pull it together.

[Green DNA]

It's almost like they're saying F-U to everyone.

Including us fans, unfortunately.

[Thai Jet]

i thought next weeks game was arkansas St:D

Shhhhhhh (it is )

[SouthernJet]

Worst offensive game plan I can ever recall..

The Chiefs have lost 15 or 16 by teams running on them and then passing by killin tgem via run..

But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

we pass pass pass and then on 1/2 yard line we go into shotgun with no RB in backfield further letting defense know we are not running..........

[joewilly]

Actually imo what's clear is that Mangini caved to the tremendous amount of media pressure (local and national) about misusing Favre after the NE game. All the talking heads were talking about taking the reigns off of Favre and it seems Manigni has responded by going too far in the opposite direction.

Can't we have some fricken balance? Run the ball, let Favre use play action which he does very well.. Let him throw it short to set up deep plays. Just run a balanced offense.

I agree here. I don't fault the jets for tryin to pass as everyone was expecting a dose of thomas jones.

there was just no rythum or balance to it. what ever happened to the friggin slant pass & yac.

yesterday screamed for the play action pass. I can't believe how unused Jones was. chatman?????????????? wtf?

[JohnnyHector]

Use running plays and short, quick routes (ie. slants) to setup going deep using play-action. It's something that has worked for the QB's 15+ year HOF career.

The talent is there. The gameplan is not.

[faba]

KC gave up 330 yards rushing the week before-lets at least try to see if they can stop us running the ball- it seems to be logical?

[ZachEY]

Use running plays and short, quick routes (ie. slants) to setup going deep using play-action. It's something that has worked for the QB's 15+ year HOF career.

The talent is there. The gameplan is not.

Was thinking the same thing as far as the quick slants go. They've worked well this year in the few times we've used them.

I don't get it, it seems so counter intuitive that things that work well for us, never seem to be built upon, and that which doesn't work, is recycled constantly.

[DMaynard]

You expect to hear statements like that in the Cowboys or Bengals lockerrooms. Teams who historically cultivate malcontents. To hear a couple of Jets not toeing the politically correct line shows the Jets coaching staff is really as clueless as we think. Especially to hear that right after a win. This is like high ranking officials in Cuba making fun of Castro's beard.

Things are very bad. Mangini and his coordinators are all in over their heads and it is showing this year. This team has real talent, have not really had any critical injuries like so many teams and are playing a weak schedule. Put 80% of the coaching staffs in charge of this team, and the Jets are easily 6-1 at this point. Maybe 7-0. Call me a homer, but I truly believe that.

I see it all of the time in the business world. There are so many people that rise to positions above their competence level and cause so many problems. Mangini should still be a DB coach. He wasn't even ready to be a DC his last year with the Pats. Shotty should still be a QB coach. Sutton should still be a LB coach, and in a 4-3 defense, no less.

All are over their heads and this team and us fans are suffering because of it. If you are happy with a 4-3 record, then let's see if you will be thrilled with the 8-8 or 9-7 record this team ends up with. These three are not going to suddenly "get it" the remainder of this year.

[CTM]

You expect to hear statements like that in the Cowboys or Bengals lockerrooms. Teams who historically cultivate malcontents. To hear a couple of Jets not toeing the politically correct line shows the Jets coaching staff is really as clueless as we think. Especially to hear that right after a win. This is like high ranking officials in Cuba making fun of Castro's beard.

Things are very bad. Mangini and his coordinators are all in over their heads and it is showing this year. This team has real talent, have not really had any critical injuries like so many teams and are playing a weak schedule. Put 80% of the coaching staffs in charge of this team, and the Jets are easily 6-1 at this point. Maybe 7-0. Call me a homer, but I truly believe that.

I see it all of the time in the business world. There are so many people that rise to positions above their competence level and cause so many problems. Mangini should still be a DB coach. He wasn't even ready to be a DC his last year with the Pats. Shotty should still be a QB coach. Sutton should still be a LB coach, and in a 4-3 defense, no less.

All are over their heads and this team and us fans are suffering because of it. If you are happy with a 4-3 record, then let's see if you will be thrilled with the 8-8 or 9-7 record this team ends up with. These three are not going to suddenly "get it" the remainder of this year.

The Peter Principle.. Thought similiar before in regards to Mangini..

Great post. Depressing, but great.

[DoubleDown]

Was thinking the same thing as far as the quick slants go. They've worked well this year in the few times we've used them.

I don't get it, it seems so counter intuitive that things that work well for us, never seem to be built upon, and that which doesn't work, is recycled constantly.

+1.

We used slants frequently for the past couple of years when Chad was under center. Now that Favre is here, we have abandoned those routes even though he has a good history of using them effectively in GB. We have the QB and WR's to make them effective, and we aren't using them. It makes no sense.

[JiFtheOracle]

I'm sure the following is wrong, I mean, it just has to be, right?

It looks (sounds?) to me like EM and BS are just spitting in the face of conventional wisdom for the sake of saying 'you can't tell us what to do, we'll call the game however we want'.

I mean, it seems so obvious what should be done, and then it isn't. Worst run defense in the league... let's spread it out, 5 WR sets, empty backfields... not so much as a draw, a playaction to be found...

It's almost like they're saying F-U to everyone.

Agreed. Mangini is totally that type of guy. The prove my point type, I'll show you. He proved with his stubbournness with an out of place defense and a failing QB. He proved against NE trying to run it in 3 times against one of the best front 7's in the game.

He came out in this game and said, "yeah, I know we can run it down your throat, but I am going to prove to you will throw all over you."

[glenn212]

Lets label this the "Clueless thread"..

[DoubleDown]

The players have every right to be questioning the offensive play calling. Oakland and KC are two of the worst run defenses in the league. Using a pass happy offensive strategy against them is baffling.

The play calling has been too "fancy" IMO. Just line up and impose your will on the other team. That kind of confidence in your players breeds a winning attitude.

[StillerPaul]

Man, if this is true and you guys actually have players second guessing the CS then you may just have more offensive woes than my team. Hold on, gonna check every Pittsburgh paper again just to make sure.....

[StillerPaul]

OK checked again and i got nothing. Ben took all the blame on his shoulders as usual....

[SMC]

Lets label this the "Clueless thread"..

So which one is clueless? Chris Baker? Woody? Or the annonymous player?

[Vudu]

Mangini's nonchalant attitude pisses me off. he seems to think that what the JETS are doing right now works, and it doesnt. Im so sick of hearing "things looked good and we went with it", its almost as if he doesnt care that we're being outplayed every freaking Sunday.

We need a coach with FIRE! A coach who isnt afraid to get the team fired up. He needs to watch Mike Singletery's rant yesterday; that is how you get a team fired up.

Mangini is softer than a baby's ass. Why won't they fire him?

[afosomf]

Mangini's nonchalant attitude pisses me off. he seems to think that what the JETS are doing right now works, and it doesnt. Im so sick of hearing "things looked good and we went with it", its almost as if he doesnt care that we're being outplayed every freaking Sunday.

We need a coach with FIRE! A coach who isnt afraid to get the team fired up. He needs to watch Mike Singletery's rant yesterday; that is how you get a team fired up.

Mangini is softer than a baby's ass. Why won't they fire him?

from your lips to gawd's ears!!!!

[124]

To come out and throw the ball 40 times against the worst run defense in the NFL when Jones and Washington were not struggling to run the ball is just sad and pathetic. The Jets always run when they should throw and throw when they should run. When they should be conservative, they're balls crazy. When they should air it out they pull a Herm and go Run, Run, Short pass.

[#27TheDominator]

They scored 28 points. That's a pretty fair output and they should have had at least three more. I'm not that fond of the gameplan, but you guys are killing them like they got shutout.

[Vicious89x]

They scored 28 points. That's a pretty fair output and they should have had at least three more. I'm not that fond of the gameplan, but you guys are killing them like they got shutout.

I think my issue is the fact that yes you're right, we're putting points up BUT we're not controlling the pace of the game. When a good team plays a bad team, the good team usually dictates the pace of the game. The one stat they flashed on the screen that made me sit back and think "wow" was that we gave the chiefs their first lead since week 4? If we play a more balanced offense and control the ball some more I think we win more comfortably.

[#27TheDominator]

I think my issue is the fact that yes you're right, we're putting points up BUT we're not controlling the pace of the game. When a good team plays a bad team, the good team usually dictates the pace of the game. The one stat they flashed on the screen that made me sit back and think "wow" was that we gave the chiefs their first lead since week 4? If we play a more balanced offense and control the ball some more I think we win more comfortably.

Yeah, I'll agree with that. There certainly could have been a better pace and if they were pounding it things probably would have been easier. OTOH, they won, they put up decent numbers (against a **** team, but still) and people here are calling for their heads in BOLD ALL CAPS and creative fonts.

They have been blamed for not letting Brett throw, not running enough, not blitzing enough, for Kerry Rhodes bad season, at this point I half expect them to be accused for killing Kennedy.

[shawn306]

I listened to Francesa to get his take on the game and he brought up (what I though a very interesting point) that the coaching staff is scared to death of upsetting Favre.

Receivers need to run better routes

Favre is basically throwing the ball with no fear of what the CS will say.

I HOPE that is not the case. Now alot of people will be like "Francesa hates the Jets" blah blah blah, but I do respect Francesa for his football knowledge and I do think it is something to consider.

The whole friggin game plan made zero sense to me. I really have to wonder right now how Mangini went from a genius to a turd in record time.

[Vicious89x]

Yeah, I'll agree with that. There certainly could have been a better pace and if they were pounding it things probably would have been easier. OTOH, they won, they put up decent numbers (against a **** team, but still) and people here are calling for their heads in BOLD ALL CAPS and creative fonts.

They have been blamed for not letting Brett throw, not running enough, not blitzing enough, for Kerry Rhodes bad season, at this point I half expect them to be accused for killing Kennedy.

I think people are trying to find a reason as to why this team, with all its talent, still seems to play at a low level.

IMO it's simple, our philosophy and lack of leadership on this team make us the fans, and IMO the players on the field, question every move. You have that mentality and when things go wrong, you don't believe in the CS. It doesn't help that Mangini continues with his emotionless shtick. People like to bring up the Giants but there is one thing I'll point out about them:

Coughlin did change himself last year. He was still hard nosed, but he eased up a bit, he relied on his veterans to be the connection between himself and the players. It showed Coughlin trusted his team and thus the team bought into his ideas and philosophies. Perhaps Mangini can change something about him that will trigger this whole thing.

It's just irritating... knowing we're RIIIIGHT there, and we can't seem to get our **** together.

[#27TheDominator]

but I do respect Francesa for his football knowledge

I don't.

I think people are trying to find a reason as to why this team, with all its talent, still seems to play at a low level.

IMO it's simple, our philosophy and lack of leadership on this team make us the fans, and IMO the players on the field, question every move. You have that mentality and when things go wrong, you don't believe in the CS. It doesn't help that Mangini continues with his emotionless shtick. People like to bring up the Giants but there is one thing I'll point out about them:

Coughlin did change himself last year. He was still hard nosed, but he eased up a bit, he relied on his veterans to be the connection between himself and the players. It showed Coughlin trusted his team and thus the team bought into his ideas and philosophies. Perhaps Mangini can change something about him that will trigger this whole thing.

It's just irritating... knowing we're RIIIIGHT there, and we can't seem to get our **** together.

Well, they were a ****ty team and added a ton of new pieces. The o-line and QB in particular usually take time to mesh. Add the fact that Favre is elected captain after about a week on the team you can see where on field leadership may be an issue. It doesn't help the fans with Mangini's emotionless shtick, but I doubt that matters to the team. I don't need him to give a press conference screaming that Favre shouldn't heave it deep into double coverage. I saw the game, Favre, Mangini and I all know that. I'm sure he is letting people have it behind closed doors.

[rillo]

Damn, if we tank the next couple of games there could be a mutiny in the locker room it seems. If this is true.

[Matt39]

Damn, if we tank the next couple of games there could be a mutiny in the locker room it seems. If this is true.

I think it's safe to say already that most of the team doesnt really enjoy playing for Mangini.