Jetlag Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 This defense has played better without David Harris. I'm not sure whether there is an actual connection or just that it took some time for the defense to look complete. But there is no denying that the past 2 weeks is the best games of the season for this defense. If anything I feel like Bowens has earned some time. This is not a Harris bashing thread. I still think he is a phenomenal young talent but I felt I needed to point this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 This defense has played better without David Harris. I'm not sure whether there is an actual connection or just that it took some time for the defense to look complete. But there is no denying that the past 2 weeks is the best games of the season for this defense. If anything I feel like Bowens has earned some time. This is not a Harris bashing thread. I still think he is a phenomenal young talent but I felt I needed to point this out. Harris vs Bowens isn't even close. The second that Harris can take the field, he will. Bowens is still learning a new position. Thanks for saying it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 This team has played well all year on the defensive side and the last 2 weeks they looked great. But thinking Harris is the reason why we didn't do better is completly ridiculous. This team has A LOT of depht, that's a big reason why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyFunnayJet Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I noticed this also, dont think this has anything to do with Harris's play but im glad somebody pointed this out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlag Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share Posted November 12, 2008 Harris vs Bowens isn't even close. The second that Harris can take the field, he will. Bowens is still learning a new position. Thanks for saying it though. I don't think Bowens is as bad as you make it. He has looked good to me. He has been a good example of how this team has finally acquired quality depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.E.T.S. JETS JETS JETS Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I noticed it too but it is a coincidence harris is better than bowens but he has played well in harris absents there is no denying that but the D will be even better with harris back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 This defense has played better without David Harris. I'm not sure whether there is an actual connection or just that it took some time for the defense to look complete. But there is no denying that the past 2 weeks is the best games of the season for this defense. If anything I feel like Bowens has earned some time. This is not a Harris bashing thread. I still think he is a phenomenal young talent but I felt I needed to point this out. I disagree bowens is a liability in coverage, which will be very obvious thursday night when the pats pick him apart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlag Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share Posted November 12, 2008 I disagree bowens is a liability in coverage, which will be very obvious thursday night when the pats pick him apart How so? Just out of curiosity can you give me some examples? I'm not being a smart ass, I honestly haven't see that big of a fall off. In fact I kind of feel the middle in the pass game has been a little less exploited lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 How so? Just out of curiosity can you give me some examples? I'm not being a smart ass, I honestly haven't see that big of a fall off. In fact I kind of feel the middle in the pass game has been a little less exploited lately. Bowens cant cover a running back or tight end, just look at how the Bills picked him apart. And then this past week didnt Cody Spencer take away most of his playing time in the 2nd half vs the Rams? Not being a smart a## either, but I think he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicBizkit87 Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 David Bowens is kind of like to the New York Yankees, Jose Molina. He's the player who you would love to have on your team as a backup. He is a player who shouldn't start, but makes some great plays as a backup that makes you think, wow, this guy is pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I was thinking this... who is calling the plays on the D now? Is it Barton? Who had the green sticker? I was thinking that maybe Harris shouldnt get his green sticker back... Im sure he is a better player than Bowens but if he was relaying the calls before maybe whoever is now should keep doing it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicBizkit87 Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I was thinking this... who is calling the plays on the D now? Is it Barton? Who had the green sticker? I was thinking that maybe Harris shouldnt get his green sticker back... Im sure he is a better player than Bowens but if he was relaying the calls before maybe whoever is now should keep doing it.. I would think either Barton, or Rhodes are the captains of the defense right now. So one of them would be calling the plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I would think either Barton, or Rhodes are the captains of the defense right now. So one of them would be calling the plays. It should stay that way too... if there is anything to connect the D getting better and Harris being out that would be it... def not Bowens being better than him... maybe bigger... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenReaper Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I like Bowens. And he's doing a decent job filling in for Harris. But I think his best role is that of a situational pass rusher. IMO, Harris has been hurt since the start of TC. Whether it was a hamstring or groin, it seems to me that it never healed. He just never looked the same as last year. He was never as quick, or hit with the same explosive force as he did before. Harris has looked sluggish and slower. Sometimes a groin-hamstring problem will just linger on the whole season. And you have to hope that you can play with it thru the year, without further damage or aggravation. Harris had some kind of groin operation. Given the whole set of circumstances and possibilities, I'd be surprised if he can play very effectively the rest of this season. Hope they don't rush Harris back too soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Harris has been non existent the entire season as Eric Barton and Calvin Pace have taken over the role of leading the Linebackers. Opponents are running more straight at Harris this season so that has also knocked down his numbers. I still think he's a pretty good LB, but he's not the next coming of Ray Lewis like some were making him out to be last season. David Bowens has stepped in and played really, really well but once Harris is back the D might look even better. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT STALKER Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 The difference maker the last two games...our defense is creating turnovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMJ Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Guys, Our defense hasn't been on the field for nearly as many plays this season as they were last season. And when Harris was healthy, he was leading the team in tackles. And no, his tackles were not a Jonathan Vilma-like - 8 yards down the field. He was making tackles at the LOS. The defense hasn't looked any better against the run believe it or not. We were 4th in the NFL against the run when Harris was playing ... we are 5th now. If David Harris was the leading tackler on the #4 defense in all the NFL against the run ... I think it is safe to say he was doing his job and doing it very well. Bowens is playing well (outside of blowing 2 coverages against Buffalo - one for a 40+ yard reception to Marshawn Lynch - the other a TD pass to their TE), but when Harris comes back, the position is his and all his and the coaches can't wait for him to be back. It is not like Bowens has had anything (individually) to do with all the turnovers we've gotten the past 3 weeks. He's doing his job, but he is not super-exceeding what he is supposed to be doing (or what David Harris does/can do) in anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I disagree bowens is a liability in coverage, which will be very obvious thursday night when the pats pick him apart Harris is a liability in coverage as well.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Guys, Our defense hasn't been on the field for nearly as many plays this season as they were last season. And when Harris was healthy, he was leading the team in tackles. And no, his tackles were not a Jonathan Vilma-like - 8 yards down the field. He was making tackles at the LOS. The defense hasn't looked any better against the run believe it or not. We were 4th in the NFL against the run when Harris was playing ... we are 5th now. If David Harris was the leading tackler on the #4 defense in all the NFL against the run ... I think it is safe to say he was doing his job and doing it very well. Bowens is playing well (outside of blowing 2 coverages against Buffalo - one for a 40+ yard reception to Marshawn Lynch - the other a TD pass to their TE), but when Harris comes back, the position is his and all his and the coaches can't wait for him to be back. It is not like Bowens has had anything (individually) to do with all the turnovers we've gotten the past 3 weeks. He's doing his job, but he is not super-exceeding what he is supposed to be doing (or what David Harris does/can do) in anyway. So last year our defense was as good at stopping the run with Harris as it is this year? Wow! Crazy stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 with Harris out Kerry Rhodes has been calling the defenses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMaynard Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I like Bowens. And he's doing a decent job filling in for Harris. But I think his best role is that of a situational pass rusher. IMO, Harris has been hurt since the start of TC. Whether it was a hamstring or groin, it seems to me that it never healed. He just never looked the same as last year. He was never as quick, or hit with the same explosive force as he did before. Harris has looked sluggish and slower. Sometimes a groin-hamstring problem will just linger on the whole season. And you have to hope that you can play with it thru the year, without further damage or aggravation. Harris had some kind of groin operation. Given the whole set of circumstances and possibilities, I'd be surprised if he can play very effectively the rest of this season. Hope they don't rush Harris back too soon. I think you nailed it. Harris was a terror last year. Playing behind Jenkins this year, he should have been at an All Pro level. Of course, we have to guess at this stuff because Captain Mangini thinks playing these games with injury disclosure actually is some kind of advantage. The idea that Harris just had a flukey rookie season and has come down to earth is ridiculous. The guy has too much talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 50% of the reason the defense has looked so dominant the past 2 weeks: St. Louis Rams. That team did absolutely everything possible to create turnovers. Throw that game out when evaluating the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 with Harris out Kerry Rhodes has been calling the defenses and that's when Rhodes snapped out of his slump. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlag Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share Posted November 12, 2008 David Harris has yet to have those flashes like he did last year. Last year when he blitzed the quarterback felt it. I'm not sure whether it's now that we actually have a legit D-Line that Sutton has been more reluctant to send Harris or just that hasn't been getting there. BTW what's the deal with Thursday, is Harris starting/playing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 So last year our defense was as good at stopping the run with Harris as it is this year? Wow! Crazy stat. I think he was saying that, during this season when Harris was playing, the Jets were ranked #4 against the run and that they haven't improved with him out of the lineup. Also, JMJ was suggesting that since Harris was leading the defense in tackles, that he must not have been playing as poorly as some suggested. I'm not saying that I agree that Harris has been playing well, because frankly, I think he has looked very slow... I was just helping you comprehend his post, cretin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boozer76 Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Bowens AND Harris are both liabilities in covg. Bowens may be a hair better in covg, but it's really negligable. Harris is far and away better in run stopping which is why he should always get the nod over Bowens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Bowens AND Harris are both liabilities in covg. Bowens may be a hair better in covg, but it's really negligable. Harris is far and away better in run stopping which is why he should always get the nod over Bowens. Harris may be a liability in coverage, but Bowens completely blew his coverage on at least two plays against the Bills. The Jets D gave up 10 points to the Bills. Seven were a direct result of Bowens blowing his coverage. I'm not talking about getting beaten by a more athletic player, I'm talking about completely flubbing his assignment. Hopefully he's settled down, but if he hasn't they have made some pretty good adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 ks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbon Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Bowens AND Harris are both liabilities in covg. Bowens may be a hair better in covg, but it's really negligable. Harris is far and away better in run stopping which is why he should always get the nod over Bowens. Egads, the vast majority of LBs are liabilities in coverage. Even good cover LBs like Urhlacher (who was a safety in college) only affect 10-15 passes a year. For the most part ILBs drop back in zone coverage to force QBs to throw over them and to stop YAC on passes thrown underneath. Most RBs and TEs and every WR should be able to beat them in one on one coverage. Teams that make LB decisions based on their coverage ability struggle to stop the run and teams that cant stop the run lose. Bowens is not a natural ILB, but he's looked better than Kassell ever did. He's exactly what a good back up should be. Solid, better than you expect, but not spectacular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 David Harris has yet to have those flashes like he did last year. Last year when he blitzed the quarterback felt it. I'm not sure whether it's now that we actually have a legit D-Line that Sutton has been more reluctant to send Harris or just that hasn't been getting there. BTW what's the deal with Thursday, is Harris starting/playing? Out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 I disagree PACE is a liability in coverage, which will be very obvious thursday night when the pats pick him apart fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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