gg Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 they kept him covered wonderfully the whole game.. double teaming him and pretty much taking him out of the game.. yet with 8 seconds left .. he only had one defender on him.,,. did sutton just call that last minute poorly? that prevent defense kills me every time. I realize they were keeping them in bounds .. but shessh! and oh year.. other then a holding call.. what did Ty Law do? OY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetophile Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 I miss his fro popping out of his helmet like a marshmallow on drugs. I had to pee. Did I miss it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 they kept him covered wonderfully the whole game.. double teaming him and pretty much taking him out of the game.. yet with 8 seconds left .. he only had one defender on him.,,. did sutton just call that last minute poorly? that prevent defense kills me every time. I realize they were keeping them in bounds .. but shessh! and oh year.. other then a holding call.. what did Ty Law do? OY! yes, I hate the prevent, so sutton did a poor job in my mind. 4 deep ? man, I don't think you go 4 deep except in hail mary situations. law was basically assigned to bump moss at the line, and rhodes had his back deep. he played OK, I was impressed he didn't puke out there, he played a LOT of snaps lowery got picked on again, that is an area of concern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
war ensemble Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Gaffney was owning Lowery, while Law did a good job covering Moss with help overneath. Managed to frustrate him for most of the game, which is key. Our secondary's real weakness is in covering three and four wide sets, where Lowery and Pace (or any linebacker, for that matter) have been getting picked on by athletic TE's (Watson) and slot receivers (Gaffney). Hopefully as time goes on we can sort out our D and get Lowery better at covering those slot guys as he should have a bit more help when we're not playing Moss and Welker. Someone has to step up as a dominant coverage linebacker and either pressure with more guys on passing downs or drop an extra linebacker in there as a spy. No point rushing three when Cassel has all the time in the world and the pocket never collapses. If no one opens, he stepped up all game and just ran for big gains, which is unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Well, generally, CBs are doing a good job when you don't see them do anything because they aren't getting thrown at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMaynard Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 It was very bizzare (and dumb) of Sutton to change the strategy on the last play of regulation. But in the final analysis, I don't think it really made a difference on that play. For most of the game, they had Law up tight on Moss at the LOS with Rhodes taking him on top. It worked like a charm. Then on that last play, they had Law drop off and not bump Moss. This allowed Moss to run his route and you know what happened. But Cassel bought a lot of extra time by escaping out of the pocket and throwing on the run. So even if Law had slowed up Moss at the LOS, there was still plenty of time for Moss to run that route. And there is no DB in the NFL that could have prevented that pass and catch. Now, the fact that the Jets played a soft, prevent defense that allowed the Pats to march down the field and get in that position to make that play is another issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Gaffney was owning Lowery, while Law did a good job covering Moss with help overneath. Managed to frustrate him for most of the game, which is key. Our secondary's real weakness is in covering three and four wide sets, where Lowery and Pace (or any linebacker, for that matter) have been getting picked on by athletic TE's (Watson) and slot receivers (Gaffney). Hopefully as time goes on we can sort out our D and get Lowery better at covering those slot guys as he should have a bit more help when we're not playing Moss and Welker. Someone has to step up as a dominant coverage linebacker and either pressure with more guys on passing downs or drop an extra linebacker in there as a spy. No point rushing three when Cassel has all the time in the world and the pocket never collapses. If no one opens, he stepped up all game and just ran for big gains, which is unacceptable. When they let Law maul guys he can be pretty effective. He is smart and he will get some picks before the year is out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 they kept him covered wonderfully the whole game.. double teaming him and pretty much taking him out of the game.. yet with 8 seconds left .. he only had one defender on him.,,. did sutton just call that last minute poorly? that prevent defense kills me every time. I realize they were keeping them in bounds .. but shessh! and oh year.. other then a holding call.. what did Ty Law do? OY! In my opinion GG - Ty Law could not have done a better job of covering Moss. It was a perfest pass thrown to the only place he could have to complete it and Moss made an unbelievable catch. Laws only other option was to get in front of Moss and that would have made the throw much easier for Cassel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatic Bus Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 they kept him covered wonderfully the whole game.. double teaming him and pretty much taking him out of the game.. yet with 8 seconds left .. he only had one defender on him.,,. did sutton just call that last minute poorly? that prevent defense kills me every time. I realize they were keeping them in bounds .. but shessh! and oh year.. other then a holding call.. what did Ty Law do? OY! he was double covered with law underneath and rodhes over the top and law had really tight coverage but cassel just was in the zone last night. bolinger had one of those games against the dolphonys a couple years back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Gaffney was owning Lowery, while Law did a good job covering Moss with help overneath. Managed to frustrate him for most of the game, which is key. Our secondary's real weakness is in covering three and four wide sets, where Lowery and Pace (or any linebacker, for that matter) have been getting picked on by athletic TE's (Watson) and slot receivers (Gaffney). Hopefully as time goes on we can sort out our D and get Lowery better at covering those slot guys as he should have a bit more help when we're not playing Moss and Welker. Someone has to step up as a dominant coverage linebacker and either pressure with more guys on passing downs or drop an extra linebacker in there as a spy. No point rushing three when Cassel has all the time in the world and the pocket never collapses. If no one opens, he stepped up all game and just ran for big gains, which is unacceptable. Everything you said here is true. I would like to make an additional comment. Yes Lowery got owned by Gaffney. A third receiver. I believe 8 catches for 88 yards. Some at very critical times. Not acceptable. I'm about to commit a sacrilege here I think. Revis also got owned in the second half by Welker. 7 catches 107 yards. Not acceptable. The Jets have a very good defense. One of the top in the league. Top 10 against the run. Believe at the moment, before Pittsburgh, and the Giants play, are # 1 in sacks. They are not giving up many BIG plays. Their underneath stinks. Getting big YAC. If they are really going to be a top 5 D. They have to find the solution to that. That's what killed them at the end of regulation Thursday. Just to big of gains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garb Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 they kept him covered wonderfully the whole game.. double teaming him and pretty much taking him out of the game.. yet with 8 seconds left .. he only had one defender on him.,,. did sutton just call that last minute poorly? that prevent defense kills me every time. I realize they were keeping them in bounds .. but shessh! and oh year.. other then a holding call.. what did Ty Law do? OY! Law could not have covered him any better on that play. That was just an incredible pass and catch. It happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aten Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 But Cassel bought a lot of extra time by escaping out of the pocket and throwing on the run. So even if Law had slowed up Moss at the LOS, there was still plenty of time for Moss to run that route. Sixteen yards out with eight seconds and no timeouts, you know where he's going and you can't stop him from getting there, so you don't bump. That's all it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 I agree with the posters saying it wouldn't have mattered, which is why I didn't understand why Collinsworth was flipping out about it. By the time Matt makes the throw, Moss and Law had been locked up for a solid second, second and a half. If the bump occurs, it just means they aren't locked up quite as long. Law had excellent coverage (the kind that Bill Polian cries about), but Matt made a perfect throw, and Randy had a nasty catch. It happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 they kept him covered wonderfully the whole game.. double teaming him and pretty much taking him out of the game.. yet with 8 seconds left .. he only had one defender on him.,,. did sutton just call that last minute poorly? that prevent defense kills me every time. I realize they were keeping them in bounds .. but shessh! and oh year.. other then a holding call.. what did Ty Law do? OY! According to Mangini, ALL 4 receivers were doubled. He said it after the game. He said that if the QB ran, they didn't care because they'd tackle him and the game is over. He said they guarded the end zone. So, Randy was doubled. One guy was "over the top" which is why you didn't see him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PETROCK Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Sutton blew it big time!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Sutton blew it big time!! great analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbro22 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Im pretty sure he was doubled. That ball was perfectly thrown. Law was forcing him to the outside and if he cut back in there was somebody else there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Im pretty sure he was doubled. That ball was perfectly thrown. Law was forcing him to the outside and if he cut back in there was somebody else there. It was double coverage but Rhodes was late getting over to help Law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalifoniaCheez Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 It was double coverage but Rhodes was late getting over to help Law. I still think the right foot was raised before he had full control of the ball and the play was out of bounds and incomplete. That was after the Moss offensive pass interference or push off to get slightly open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 I still think the right foot was raised before he had full control of the ball and the play was out of bounds and incomplete. That was after the Moss offensive pass interference or push off to get slightly open. I guess you missed Ty Law all over Moss on that play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 It was double coverage but Rhodes was late getting over to help Law. I'm not even sure Rhodes was late, Law had the out side. Look at that picture, Look where Law's hand is. You just can't have better coverage then that. Just a great play by Moss. Period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 I'm not even sure Rhodes was late, Law had the out side. Look at that picture, Look where Law's hand is. You just can't have better coverage then that. Just a great play by Moss. Period Not the best quality, but these pictures show why the coverage was so tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Like I said Gainzo. Excellent coverage, the kind Bill Polian hates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gg Posted November 15, 2008 Author Share Posted November 15, 2008 Not the best quality, but these pictures show why the coverage was so tight. thanks everyone! great shots here. i am not say8ing that it wasnt a great catch.. but these shots dont show him being double teamed. and if it was rhodes that was the second defender on him.. well he was just not close. anyway.. i dont think that last 1:15 shook out very well.. they shouldnt have been able to score in that time. just sayin i am old.. dont like finishes like that .. not good for the old ticker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Lol... I guess there's a reason they called that the Ty law rule.. Btw, where the **** was Rhodes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Lol... I guess there's a reason they called that the Ty law rule.. Btw, where the **** was Rhodes? I will note that the best part of that set of pictures is that despite Ty having him in a bear hug, Randy is still all waving like, "Yo Matt! I'm totally open! For seriousness! Ignore this dude hanging on me, I swear I'm open!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 I will note that the best part of that set of pictures is that despite Ty having him in a bear hug, Randy is still all waving like, "Yo Matt! I'm totally open! For seriousness! Ignore this dude hanging on me, I swear I'm open!" It looks like post up in basketball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 It looks like post up in basketball That's exactly what it looks like! The only reason I posted those pics was because of this statement by CalifoniaCheez: That was after the Moss offensive pass interference or push off to get slightly open. As Jared stated, thats the way Ty always played and if it wasn't for Bill Polian crying like a little girl back in 2003 & 2004 that kind of play would still be perfectly legal. The only reason Ty wasn't flagged on that play was because the closest official wasn't looking. Take a look at pics 1-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Lol... I guess there's a reason they called that the Ty law rule.. Btw, where the **** was Rhodes? lol to the inside you would have him start the play on the sideline ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 lol to the inside you would have him start the play on the sideline ? There's a good 3 yards visible to the inside in shots above and he's not in them. Not to mention that law is already on the inside. Not to mention that unless Rhodes has brain damage, he had to have been fading that way cause Cassell was running in that direction cutting off the other half of the field.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 There's a good 3 yards visible to the inside in shots above and he's not in them. Not to mention that law is already on the inside. Not to mention that unless Rhodes has brain damage, he had to have been fading that way cause Cassell was running in that direction cutting off the other half of the field.. we'd have to know what defense was called and how it was coached to judge him I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it wasn't the sideline he was supposed to defend on 4th and 1 from the 8 or whatever it was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 CTM 1) there were 3 pats* on the right side of the formation. 2) I don't think it was a double team based on how he backpedals at the 57 second mark. 3) good play design, and a perfect throw oops, forgot to post youtube vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN6LPxVhpYQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 we'd have to know what defense was called and how it was coached to judge him I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it wasn't the sideline he was supposed to defend on 4th and 1 from the 8 or whatever it was It was 4th and 1 from the 16. That gives Rhodes 26 yards of real estate to defend if you include the back of the endzone. After Cassel was nearly sacked he rolled out and ran for a good 2 seconds before he threw the ball. Rhodes should have been helping out Law when he saw Cassel out of the pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatic Bus Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 rhodes was late reacting on the ball. when cassel scrambled to the right rhodhes stayed over the middle expecting moss to come inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 It was 4th and 1 from the 16. That gives Rhodes 26 yards of real estate to defend if you include the back of the endzone. After Cassel was nearly sacked he rolled out and ran for a good 2 seconds before he threw the ball. Rhodes should have been helping out Law when he saw Cassel out of the pocket. you can't say unless you can see where the slot guy goes and where the TE goes. If rhodes cheats to moss, maybe cassell just goes to the TE or the slot guy watching this vid makes me wince every time I see bowens wiff ! man, those guys look tired, moss didn't even have the energy to do a stupid celebration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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