OMG Help the car makers

[anskyruben]

http://cbs2.com/video/?id=83828@kcbs.dayport.com

How come the CEO's are still flying around in their private jets.

[ECURB]

http://cbs2.com/video/?id=83828@kcbs.dayport.com

How come the CEO's are still flying around in their private jets.

Cause they dont give a ****, would you? Why should they live down their lifestyle? They are going to suck the company dry.

[anskyruben]

It's a lot easier to blame the average worker making 40 an hour. Why don't we ask the executives who are NON union how much they are making ?

[rillo]

It's a lot easier to blame the average worker making 40 an hour. Why don't we ask the executives who are NON union how much they are making ?

Seriously, this pisses me off. I can't believe they want to blame the workers for this crap. Has nothing to do with a failed business plan and horribly made cars. It's disgusting IMO.....

[Jet Moses]

god save the sex pistols they're a bunch of wholesome blokes

they just like wearing filthy clothes and swapping filthy jokes

god save television keep the programs pure

god save william grundy from falling in manure

ronnie biggs was doing time until he done a bunk

now he says he's seen the light and he sold his soul to punk

god save martin boorman and nasis on the run

they wasn't being wicked god that was their idea of fun

god save myra hindley god save ian brady

even though he's horrible and she ain't what you call a lady

ronnie biggs was doing time until he done a bunk

now he says he's seen the light and he sold his soul to punk

god save politicians god save our friends the pigs

god save idi amin and god save ronald biggs

god save all us sinners god save your blackest sheep

god save the good samaritan and god save the worthless creep

[afosomf]

god save the sex pistols they're a bunch of wholesome blokes

they just like wearing filthy clothes and swapping filthy jokes

god save television keep the programs pure

god save william grundy from falling in manure

ronnie biggs was doing time until he done a bunk

now he says he's seen the light and he sold his soul to punk

god save martin boorman and nasis on the run

they wasn't being wicked god that was their idea of fun

god save myra hindley god save ian brady

even though he's horrible and she ain't what you call a lady

ronnie biggs was doing time until he done a bunk

now he says he's seen the light and he sold his soul to punk

god save politicians god save our friends the pigs

god save idi amin and god save ronald biggs

god save all us sinners god save your blackest sheep

god save the good samaritan and god save the worthless creep

I'm expected a redistributed mercedes for XMAS;)

[Jet Moses]

I'm expected a redistributed mercedes for XMAS;)

You'll get a Trabant and like it.

[Fishooked]

Seriously, this pisses me off. I can't believe they want to blame the workers for this crap. Has nothing to do with a failed business plan and horribly made cars. It's disgusting IMO.....

+ eleventy billion

[Jet Moses]

Seriously, this pisses me off. I can't believe they want to blame the workers for this crap. Has nothing to do with a failed business plan and horribly made cars. It's disgusting IMO.....

Have you ever been to Detroit? It's like North Korea at night, except for the UAW building. It's lit up like a Xmas tree.

[shawn306]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/19/autos.ceo.jets/index.html

By Josh Levs

CNN

(CNN) -- Some lawmakers lashed out at the CEOs of the Big Three auto companies Wednesday for flying private jets to Washington to request taxpayer bailout money.

Chrysler CEO Robert Nardelli, left, and Ford CEO Alan Mulally testify on Capitol Hill on Wednesday.

"There is a delicious irony in seeing private luxury jets flying into Washington, D.C., and people coming off of them with tin cups in their hand, saying that they're going to be trimming down and streamlining their businesses," Rep. Gary Ackerman, D-New York, told the chief executive officers of Ford, Chrysler and General Motors at a hearing of the House Financial Services Committee.

"It's almost like seeing a guy show up at the soup kitchen in high hat and tuxedo. It kind of makes you a little bit suspicious."

He added, "couldn't you all have downgraded to first class or jet-pooled or something to get here? It would have at least sent a message that you do get it."

The executives -- Alan Mulally of Ford, Robert Nardelli of Chrysler and Richard Wagoner of GM -- were seeking support for a $25 billion loan package. Later Wednesday, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid reversed plans to hold a test vote on the measure.

An aide told CNN that Reid decided to cancel the test vote when it became clear the measure would fall well short of the 60 votes needed. Reid did, however, make a procedural move that could allow a vote on a compromise, which several senators from auto-producing states were feverishly trying to craft.

At Wednesday's hearing, Rep. Brad Sherman, D-California, pressed the private-jet issue, asking the three CEOs to "raise their hand if they flew here commercial."

"Let the record show, no hands went up," Sherman said. "Second, I'm going to ask you to raise your hand if you are planning to sell your jet in place now and fly back commercial. Let the record show, no hands went up."

The executives did not specifically respond to those remarks. In their testimony, they said they are streamlining business operations in general. Watch Nardelli ask for help

[Jet Moses]

Shawn, there isn't a non-scumbag involved:

The CEO's, the UAW or the Politicians.

We had a good thing--- this country--- and we blew it. It's done, stick a fork in it. It's over.

[The Gun Of Bavaria]

***** THE U.A.W.

Let's get something straight here fellas, the UAW is the EXACT reason they're in this mess. *****ing janitors making $70,000 a year, line workers who go to work dressed for an Ozzy concert making $80-$90K, sometimes 6 figures with overtime. The infamous UAW "Jobs Bank" where workers get paid Not To Work. I have a neighbor that has been laid off for over a year making 95% of his wages. Yes, he's laid off for christ's sake. They have medical, dental, optical and retirement benefits that most Americans would only dream of.

The UAW is a parasite, sucking the lifeblood out of the Big 3.

Boo Freaking Hoo..... the poor UAW types, driving their "A Plan" vehicles, can't afford their cottages up North anymore because the mortgage payment on their 2500 sq ft home is too high. Ohhhhh how tragic.

Let the "Big 3" go into bankruptcy, reorganize, and retool the labor situation. They're are plenty of people who would gladly work for 1/2 of what these guys make.

[faba]

***** THE U.A.W.

Let's get something straight here fellas, the UAW is the EXACT reason they're in this mess. *****ing janitors making $70,000 a year, line workers who go to work dressed for an Ozzy concert making $80-$90K, sometimes 6 figures with overtime. The infamous UAW "Jobs Bank" where workers get paid Not To Work. I have a neighbor that has been laid off for over a year making 95% of his wages. Yes, he's laid off for christ's sake. They have medical, dental, optical and retirement benefits that most Americans would only dream of.

The UAW is a parasite, sucking the lifeblood out of the Big 3.

Boo Freaking Hoo..... the poor UAW types, driving their "A Plan" vehicles, can't afford their cottages up North anymore because the mortgage payment on their 2500 sq ft home is too high. Ohhhhh how tragic.

Let the "Big 3" go into bankruptcy, reorganize, and retool the labor situation. They're are plenty of people who would gladly work for 1/2 of what these guys make.

GOB we need to let these cos to file Chapter 11 so they can break the contracts with these unions. Start fresh with realistic wages and benefits that are in line with actually making cars.

[Jet Moses]

Let the "Big 3" go into bankruptcy, reorganize, and retool the labor situation. They're are plenty of people who would gladly work for 1/2 of what these guys make.

No doubt. But the a certain political party needs the UAW votes and dollars. These scumbag CEO's are in congress looking for a handout, and if they get one, it will be because certain politicians CANNOT let these poorly run companies perish, because that would be the end of the UAW. And these arrogant CEO's know this and thats why they can flaunt their exceses. It's the same crap with the AIG corporate pigs, rubbing it in everyone's face.

I was a teamster for 6 years, not a day went by that I didn't witness at least one felony. If I owned a business, I wouldn't hire anybody who worked for a union.

[The Gun Of Bavaria]

No doubt. But the a certain political party needs the UAW votes and dollars. These scumbag CEO's are in congress looking for a handout, and if they get one, it will be because certain politicians CANNOT let these poorly run companies perish, because that would be the end of the UAW. And these arrogant CEO's know this and thats why they can flaunt their exegis. It's the same crap with the AIG corporate pigs, rubbing it in everyone's face.

I was a teamster for 6 years, not a day went by that I didn't witness at least one felony. If I owned a business, I wouldn't hire anybody who worked for a union.

Yeah, I agree bro.

And no one get me wrong, these arrogant CEO pricks can burn right along with them.

This country is starting to smell an awful lot like France.

[Jet Moses]

Yeah, I agree bro.

And no one get me wrong, these arrogant CEO pricks can burn right along with them.

This country is starting to smell an awful lot like France.

Oh no doubt. There simply isn't a side to take in this fight.

[PatsFanTX]

Seriously, this pisses me off. I can't believe they want to blame the workers for this crap.

Union workers getting paid $42.50 an hour to work on an assembly line?

Yea, not their fault at all.

[Jet Moses]

Union workers getting paid $42.50 an hour to work on an assembly line?

Yea, not their fault at all.

Well somebody has to check the air in the tires.

[PatsFanTX]

Well somebody has to check the air in the tires.

That's my point exactly.

That's what happens when you pay unskilled workers $60k a year with the best health benefits in the country.

In Detroit, where generations of families have made solid, middle-class livings working on the line, autoworkers worry about what they're giving up when they agree to walk away from jobs. They earn about $57,000 on average for jobs requiring little more than a high school education and a clean criminal record. They get health benefits unmatched by any other industry, paying next to nothing for medical bills. Unionized workers get paid even if they're not working.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-03-28-buyout-packages_x.htm

[rillo]

Union workers getting paid $42.50 an hour to work on an assembly line?

Yea, not their fault at all.

So its their fault these companies have a failed business model? Make crappy cars and don't want to adapt to different technologies? I say let them fail, but don't place the blame on workers that have no control of contracts and business plans. They make a good living wage, but I can guarantee you none of these guys/girls have yachts, mansions or personal airplanes. Unions are a must IMO.

[Panzer Division Marduk]

Union workers getting paid $42.50 an hour to work on an assembly line?

Yea, not their fault at all.

And I thought I wasn't doing too bad being in charge of a warehouse, sorting out orders, dealing with the public, and doing all the labour for $10 an hour?

Jesus.

[Jet Moses]

That's my point exactly.

That's what happens when you pay unskilled workers $60k a year with the best health benefits in the country.

In Detroit, where generations of families have made solid, middle-class livings working on the line, autoworkers worry about what they're giving up when they agree to walk away from jobs. They earn about $57,000 on average for jobs requiring little more than a high school education and a clean criminal record. They get health benefits unmatched by any other industry, paying next to nothing for medical bills. Unionized workers get paid even if they're not working.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-03-28-buyout-packages_x.htm

You're preaching to the choir. Like I said, I was a Teamster for 6 years. I was a good worker with a good work ethic, but I was told to "slow down".

After a while, you become like the scumbag who hangs out in the bog all night. Why not? You both get paid the same exact amount of money.

[freestater]

so... politics are allowed on this board?

[Jet Moses]

Unions are a must IMO.

It's funny, but I've never met anybody who worked for Honda or Toyota who wishes they were a UAW member.

[freestater]

BTW.. ALL unions are inherently Marxist.

[Bob]

BTW,, ALL big business is inherently fascist.

I think the autoworkers are overpaid, too, but this right-wing circle jerk was making me ill.

[faba]

To answer a question - I wouuld not list this under politics- this is about the US economy and the situation we are in. It is allright to discuss the economics

[freestater]

BTW,, ALL big business is inherently fascist.

I must have missed the part where they use force to make people work for them or buy their products.

[PatsFanTX]

So its their fault these companies have a failed business model? Make crappy cars and don't want to adapt to different technologies? I say let them fail, but don't place the blame on workers that have no control of contracts and business plans. They make a good living wage, but I can guarantee you none of these guys/girls have yachts, mansions or personal airplanes. Unions are a must IMO.

Unions served a purpose back in the 1930's.

They serve absolutely no purpose in a capitalistic society today.

If they automakers could free themselves of the union, they would be able to reduce expenses by 35%-40%.

[Jet Moses]

To answer a question - I wouuld not list this under politics- this is about the US economy and the situation we are in. It is allright to discuss the economics

Absolutely. All politicians are the problem. Anybody who thinks there is a side to take in this fight is pissing up a rope.

[freestater]

As long as the government plans on taking money from individuals by force and then redistribute that money to others who have failed at their particular business (regardless of the cause of that failure), it is political.

[faba]

This thread is OK as long as we don not start to label people as conservatives or liberals -stick to the point -should we give 25 billion to the auto industrry-I say no.

Let them file Chapter 11 and reorganize to get costs in line with reality and bring in new management.

[Jet Moses]

This thread is OK as long as we don not start to label people as conservatives or liberals -stick to the point -should we give 25 billion to the auto industrry-I say no.

Let them file Chapter 11 and reorganize to get costs in line with reality and bring in new management.

I'm with you, Faba. The problem though is the pandora's box has already been opened with the bailout swindle Paulson masterminded for all his homeboys on Wall Street.

Now every industry, both public (Cities, states, municipalities) and private are looking for some "free" money.

It's becoming a grab bag and who's going to pay for all this? We are, because inflation will go through the ceiling if this nonsense continues.

[PatsFanTX]

This thread is OK as long as we don not start to label people as conservatives or liberals -stick to the point -should we give 25 billion to the auto industrry-I say no.

Let them file Chapter 11 and reorganize to get costs in line with reality and bring in new management.

I disagree with that faba.

The hit on the economy would be tremendous if the Big 3 fail.

The impact would range much further (suppliers, dealers, etc.) than just the auto makers.

[freestater]

This thread is OK as long as we don not start to label people as conservatives or liberals -stick to the point -should we give 25 billion to the auto industrry-I say no.

Let them file Chapter 11 and reorganize to get costs in line with reality and bring in new management.

Seems to me the automakers would have a much better chance of survival if they didn't have the voluminous tomes of regulations to follow, doing business here in the US. Also, if the tax burden wasn't so high, maybe half the assembly would be done here in the US rather than Mexico and elsewhere. Lower taxes and reasonable industry regulations is a sure-fire method of enticing business to locate in your country. Look at what Ireland has done.