Herm Edwards Press Conference - 11/25

[BP]

HERM EDWARDS:

[NJ]

Q: Your alma mater, San Diego State, has a head coaching opening and your name pops up. Do you have any comment?

EDWARDS: “I’ve got a college team right now and I’m coaching it.”

Oh my.

With every day that goes by, Herm reminds me more of Ice Cube's dog catcher dad in the movie Friday.

"You catch a dog ....... and you choke'em ... like this"

[DMaynard]

EDWARDS:

[Ghost]

Oh my.

With every day that goes by, Herm reminds me more of Ice Cube's dog catcher dad in the movie Friday.

"You catch a dog ....... and you choke'em ... like this"

:rl::rl:

"Help me pleee, help me pleee"

[Sperm Edwards]

HERM EDWARDS: “This is the first time this year for our young players we have played a team twice. Every team has been new to them as an opponent but this is the second time we’ve played (the Raiders) and I think they have to realize that this is a division opponent.

Dumbass, division opponents are only significant when you're in the playoff hunt. And it's a situation every team, whether young or not, goes through every season. Herm sees this as some sort of rite of passage that his team must go through. If it creates an additional challenge for your team more than it does for the opponent, Herm, then you're not much of a coach.

“They came in here and did a good job against us the last time they were here. It was a 6-0 ballgame at the half and from there they hit some big runs on us and pulled away. They are still doing the same thing. They’ve got two big punishing backs and their offensive line is very good. They run their scheme very well. They’ve got some good receivers but their game is run the ball. They’re going to try to pound you that way. They ran it against Denver something like 41 times and only threw 11 passes. The quarterback is still growing but he can throw the ball down the field when he wants to.

Herm has been doing this since as far back as I can remember. Spouts off stats that he looked up because he thinks it shows off his knowledge & therefore his upcoming wisdom. Memorizing a team's past stats doesn't mean you're going to be able to gameplan against it any better.

He's also big on predicting, to the press, what his upcoming opponent will do. He should paint one of his training camp signs that says, "We're going to stack the box & leave your receivers in single coverage all day. It's there if you want it." Dumbass.

“Defensively their front four is very good. They can put pressure on the quarterback with four guys and can cover well. They play a lot of man-to-man – that’s the problem they present more than most teams. They play a lot of man-to-man coverage and put their corners in tight coverage on wideouts. They haven’t given up a lot of points the last couple of weeks and when you go into Denver and win that’s a big game for them.”

They don't give up a lot of passing yards because they DO give up a lot of rushing yards. Not because they can't be passed on. For a guy who loves to show off the stats he looks up, does he not realize that every game that Oakland gave up low passing yards was accompanied by that opponent getting gobs of rushing yards? I naturally mean every opponent except the Chiefs, who got neither rushing nor passing yards against them.

Q: You had a couple of games where you held people down on defense and then this past week you had a fallback. Are you prepared to face this type of offense?

EDWARDS: “Well we’d better because they’re going to run it. There is no doubt about it. I think they ran it on us 47 times (the first game) or something like that. We know what’s going to happen. They don’t try and trick you with their runs.”

What a softball question. "This type of offense"??? What type is that - the type that has scored in the teens or lower in 8 of their 10 non-Chiefs games?

Q: As you look at film from last week did you see a difference from the previous weeks as far as defending the run is concerned?

EDWARDS: “Gap responsibilities – it always boils down to that. Not playing your gaps quite correctly. The thing that’s hurt us some now the last couple of weeks is we had some new linebackers playing. Now, DJ (Derrick Johnson) was back but Rocky had to play ‘Mike’ and Demorrio had to play ‘Sam.’”

He loves that term "gaps" - he never used it once for the first few years with the Jets, then he must have heard 1 or 2 other people say it & thought they sounded intelligent in doing so. Now he inserts that term at every possible opportunity.

Q: Not to beat dead horse, but now that you have had some time since the Jared Allen trade would you still make it given your problems sacking the quarterback?

EDWARDS: “Yeah, yeah, because of what you’re trying to do. You can’t lose sight of what you’re trying to do. You’re trying to build a football team and if you look at the guys that are playing we dress like 18 rookies every week out of the 45-man roster. I think most of them have played – some of them a lot — and the only two guys who haven’t are Barry (Richardson) and Michael (Merritt). Some of the draft choices are starting. I think we have six or seven rookies starting now.

Yes he would still trade away Jared Allen who has more sacks, in a down-season for him, than the entire Chiefs roster combined? Trying to build a team but a 26 year-old sack demon is not something good to have in place when building a team? And with all the cap money saved by letting Allen go to Minnesota, they used just about none of it & let the season play out some $30M under the salary cap. Good Lord.

“When you do something like that you know it’s going to affect you one way but it’s going to help you other ways. It really helped us in the draft to do some things we needed to do. We’ve got some guys who have a lot of experience now and are gaining more experience. With Brandon Carr he’s already played 770 snaps with special teams and defense. For a rookie corner that’s a lot of snaps.

“When you are trying to build something you understand you take a step back somewhere else, but we’ve added some more players and that’s what we had to do.”

Jared Allen already has experience. So it's better to draft an unknown and get that unknown experience than to have a young stud who already has experience?

That's like being happy the stock market is down because you can realize a greater percentage gain as it eventually goes back up over the next couple of years. I want Herm in charge of my portfolio.

Q: But wouldn’t you like to have a guy like Allen given the troubles you have rushing the quarterback?

EDWARDS: “Oh sure. But when you do this you know you’re not going to get everything when you try to rebuild. You know that. You’re not to get all the pieces right away. But I think we’re closer now than we’ve ever been. There are still some pieces we have to get but it’s a lot better when you look at our team. When you look at the starters on both sides of the ball right now the two veteran guys are Tony (Gonzalez) and Brian Waters. The rest of the guys are four years or less.

They're closer to where he wants to be (a cover-2 base defense that is predicated on relentless pressure on the QB) without Jared Allen than with him. Mmm-kay.

Jared Allen, in his prime (assuming he even reached his ceiling at age 25)? Let him go.

Tony Gonzalez? On the downside of his career (by his own admission) at age 32 and publicly announced he wants out? Don't trade him for draft picks. Keep him & forgo draft picks.

“On defense, really the only starter who is a four year player is DJ (Johnson). You’re building a football team that is going to be together for a long, long time. A lot of rookies and first year guys are getting a lot of playing time. That’s what you’ve got to look at in the long run.

My name is Herm Edwards. I assume that when all these rookie contracts come up at the same time that we'll be able to re-sign every one of them who's worth a damn. They couldn't possibly want to go anywhere else or play for anyone else when that opportunity arises.

“Would we like more wins? Absolutely. But we’re going to continue to try and win football games. When you look at what you’ve got it’s in the right direction. You’re not that far away.”

Never missing from any Herm Edwards interview: ask a question to himself and then answer it.

Q: What were your expectations as far as the pass rush was concerned after that trade of Allen was made?

EDWARDS: “We had some veteran linebackers who were in place. But the linebackers have been nicked and some of them aren’t here anymore. We felt that when we lose a Jared Allen we might have to blitz a little bit more but that hasn’t worked out so far. We’ve blitzed some and haven’t gotten there. You just keep working on it and I think we’re getting better. We’ve got more pressure but we haven’t gotten him down. You think about having six sacks that’s not very good for anybody. We’ve got to continue to improve with the guys that we have and from there as this thing keeps going you might have to get a guy. That’s okay. But you can’t make it happen. You’ve got to use the guys you have now.”

Six sacks is "not very good for anybody"? It is outright the lowest total in NFL history. The record is the 1982 Indianapolis Colts who finished the season with 11. Of course, that was in a 9-game strike season.

That question would be better-answered by Jim Mora (Sr.): "It sucks."

Q: Is it more personnel than schematic?

EDWARDS: “I just think it’s a bunch of young guys and when you’re in a rut you’re in a rut. We’ve been in a rut not sacking the quarterback. Now, I think the last couple of weeks we’ve put more pressure on him. We’ve hit him more and that’s a good sign. But we’ve got to get him down.”

Translation of Herm's answer: it's the players' fault, not mine.

Q: If you had been able to know that by Thanksgiving that you would have had only six sacks would you have still gone ahead and blessed the Jared Allen trade?

EDWARDS: “No doubt, because it was the right thing to do for the football team. You’re trying to build a football team. How do you do that? You have to get players and we’re in a situation where we knew what we were going to do. We were going to go young and we were going to draft players who were going to play. We’re going to find out what they are and that’s what we’ve done.

Jared Allen IS a player. And he IS young. What, 26 years old is not young enough? If you're building a team you can't have any of those young building blocks older than 22? What an imbecile.

“The only way we got those draft choices was through the Jared Allen trade. We got more picks but not only have we got picks but those guys have become starters. Now, are they gaining experience? Yeah, they’re rookie starters. Long time ago Jared Allen was a rookie starter too. Jared Allen wasn’t Jared Allen until he became the player that he’s become through experience and hard work. Is he a very good player? Yeah, he is, but you couldn’t say that his first year. You saw some flashes but as he grew at the position he became the player that he is. It’s the same with some of these guys. They’re getting better; they’ll get better. The problem is they’re so young and there are so many of them that you don’t see the fruits of their labor yet. But you will. That’s what we’re counting on.”

Draft choices don't make your team better. Better players make your team better. Hopefully you get that in the draft. But trading one of your own draftees, who has not only panned out but who is still very young & fits your defensive scheme in unbelievably perfect fashion, is not a player you let go of. Not when you're $30M under the salary cap before it goes up the following year.

Q: As you look around the league do you see another defense that you would like to emulate?

EDWARDS: “When you look at them the great thing about these guys is they’re going to be together for the next four or five years. I think they have to take on their own personality. I don’t think they have a personality yet. They don’t have an identity. They just don’t. That’s okay; that’ll come.

They absolutely DO have an identity: they stink on ice & everyone wishes the Chiefs were on their schedule 16x.

“The key is they’re going to play together. All of a sudden we are starting three rookie corners – two drafted and one a free agent – and two safeties who are three-year guys and one rookie, and your oldest guy on the defensive line is Tamba (Hali). The rest of them are two year players and a rookie.

The key is they're going to play together? That's only important if they're any good to begin with.

And using a team's lack of experience as an excuse, when that was what you wanted to do, is just friggin' cowardly. Any fool knows that you can't have a whole team full of non-veterans. Any fool except for the singular fool that is Herman Edwards.

“They’ve got to form their own identity. Now, we’ll add some pieces to that obviously. It’s the same thing on offense. There are a bunch of young guys over there too. I just think that the more this team goes through they are going to grow together and play together a long time.”

"Identity" seems to be another one of his buzz-words that he repeats & thinks it means something.

Q: When Allen was gone one of the plusses was getting rookie Glenn Dorsey who could provide a rush up the middle. Has he provided that?

EDWARDS: “We knew in drafting him that he wasn’t going to come in and light it up as a pass rusher right away because that’s not what he was asked to do in college. The thing that you don’t realize some times is in college he was a dominant player. You’ve got to understand in college he’s playing against guys, a lot of time, that are going to be lawyers, doctors, politicians. They’re life’s work is not going to be professional football. They’re good college players. He just happened to be one of the better players. He was playing against those kinds of guys.

We drafted a guy with a top-5 pick to do a certain job, knowing full-well that he has no measurable record of success at doing that job. Good God, he just drafted DRob again.

“He comes into this league and he’s playing against professional football players – guards who have played that position for four or five and some 10 years. He’s going against those guys and he has no experience playing against those guys and he’s getting it every game he plays.

“I look back at Warren Sapp his first couple of years. Warren Sapp was a high-round pick. You watch his growth. You’ve got to give guys time. If you look at most of the kids that came in as defensive linemen – even the ends that came in this year like Howie Long’s son – it doesn’t happen overnight.

Herm still looking for his Warren Sapp. Warren Sapp was Warren Sapp. Just find some guys whose own talents are beneficial to your team, Herm, instead of trying to turn non-Warren Sapp players into Warren Sapp (Shawn Ellis & DRob = Sapp II and III; Jon McGraw = Lynch II; just like Herm sees himself as Tony Dungy II).

“You can’t have everything. We were able to get him (in the draft) but we lose a heck of a player. But we acquired a couple of other players too who are helping us right now: Jamaal Charles, who is helping; we got a safety in the third round - a good football player. We gave a player who was a good player away but we added a few more players who in the future will be good players for us.”

You gave away a GREAT player and in return you received prospects who may or may not ever pan out before you get fired. That is what you did.

Q: Is there any danger in losing this team’s momentum after the four good games you played and then this last game you lost, do you worry that they may have a fragile confidence?

EDWARDS: “The thing is you find out. This is another step they’re going to have to take now. You play a game where you don’t give yourself much of a chance because you turn the ball over. I think about the game last night (Green Bay at New Orleans) where someone scored 50 points. I thought, well, somebody must have turned the ball over. Well, somebody did. You turn the ball over that many times – I don’t care who you are – and you play on a short field no matter who you are you give the other team the advantage. We played on a short field most of the day and they took advantage of it.

What momentum did the Chiefs have going for them? Losing by a lesser amount than before? That's momentum?

And I always thought playing on a short field is when you have a shorter distance between where you are and the opponent's endzone. Apparently a "short field" is when you take over deep in your own territory. Thanks for clearing that up for me, Herm.

“So, I think we’re going to learn a little more about these guys. We’re going along, playing pretty good, are very competitive and the last four weeks before this week it comes down to the fourth quarter. You make the plays and you have a chance to win the game. Now we have this game. Now what’s going to happen? I think they’ll bounce back.

"Make plays" - I love it. I knew he couldn't get through an interview without saying it.

“But whatever happens they have to go through it. It’s another part of learning how to play in this league. We can’t turn the ball over that many times.”

Getting the snot beat out of you week after week is how Herm thinks you learn to play in this league. Super.

Q: Your alma mater, San Diego State, has a head coaching opening and your name pops up. Do you have any comment?

EDWARDS: “I’ve got a college team right now and I’m coaching it.”

1) What an a-hole.

2) He didn't say he's not interested in pursuing it. Chiefs fans everywhere can only dream of a day when he runs away.

Q: As an old defensive back, don’t you expect your defensive backs to be able to cover a guy one-on-one in single-coverage?

EDWARDS: “Yeah, you do. There is a statement: you live by it and you die by it. Just because you blitz doesn’t mean they can’t block you. If they block us, oh boy, now you’ve got a problem. More time for the quarterback to throw the ball. Is there a match-up problem? Do you feel your corner can cover this guy? Maybe they can. You can’t keep putting him out there and if they block you they’re going to make a big play.

And a great way to accomplish that is to trot out 3 rookie CB's. Just masterful.

“We’re not afraid to do that and we’ve got some good corners who can do that and they happen to be rookies. They’ve done a pretty good job.”

Whoa - now they've done a pretty good job? They were the object of your blame - specifically singled out by Herm - whenever an opponent moved the ball through the air in one of his many Chiefs losses.

[Sperm Edwards]

Q: Overall taking into consideration last year, are you worried at all of losing becoming a habit?

EDWARDS:

[bfett81]

If everyone is on the same page and you've lost 18 of your last 19, then you should crumple up that page & delete it from memory. Just like you did with every bit of football knowledge you gained as a player.

I used to take pleasure in the woes of the Chiefs fans who tried to rub it in our faces that they got Herm from us. I can't even wish for that, even though he gives me oodles of material every week. Because no NFL fan outside the New England area deserves this sideshow.

It's 19 of the last 20.

Your dedication to cracking on Herm is appreciated.

[BP]

Dumbass, division opponents are only significant when you're in the playoff hunt. And it's a situation every team, whether young or not, goes through every season. Herm sees this as some sort of rite of passage that his team must go through. If it creates an additional challenge for your team more than it does for the opponent, Herm, then you're not much of a coach.

Herm has been doing this since as far back as I can remember. Spouts off stats that he looked up because he thinks it shows off his knowledge & therefore his upcoming wisdom. Memorizing a team's past stats doesn't mean you're going to be able to gameplan against it any better.

He's also big on predicting, to the press, what his upcoming opponent will do. He should paint one of his training camp signs that says, "We're going to stack the box & leave your receivers in single coverage all day. It's there if you want it." Dumbass.

They don't give up a lot of passing yards because they DO give up a lot of rushing yards. Not because they can't be passed on. For a guy who loves to show off the stats he looks up, does he not realize that every game that Oakland gave up low passing yards was accompanied by that opponent getting gobs of rushing yards? I naturally mean every opponent except the Chiefs, who got neither rushing nor passing yards against them.

What a softball question. "This type of offense"??? What type is that - the type that has scored in the teens or lower in 8 of their 10 non-Chiefs games?

He loves that term "gaps" - he never used it once for the first few years with the Jets, then he must have heard 1 or 2 other people say it & thought they sounded intelligent in doing so. Now he inserts that term at every possible opportunity.

Yes he would still trade away Jared Allen who has more sacks, in a down-season for him, than the entire Chiefs roster combined? Trying to build a team but a 26 year-old sack demon is not something good to have in place when building a team? And with all the cap money saved by letting Allen go to Minnesota, they used just about none of it & let the season play out some $30M under the salary cap. Good Lord.

Jared Allen already has experience. So it's better to draft an unknown and get that unknown experience than to have a young stud who already has experience?

That's like being happy the stock market is down because you can realize a greater percentage gain as it eventually goes back up over the next couple of years. I want Herm in charge of my portfolio.

They're closer to where he wants to be (a cover-2 base defense that is predicated on relentless pressure on the QB) without Jared Allen than with him. Mmm-kay.

Jared Allen, in his prime (assuming he even reached his ceiling at age 25)? Let him go.

Tony Gonzalez? On the downside of his career (by his own admission) at age 32 and publicly announced he wants out? Don't trade him for draft picks. Keep him & forgo draft picks.

My name is Herm Edwards. I assume that when all these rookie contracts come up at the same time that we'll be able to re-sign every one of them who's worth a damn. They couldn't possibly want to go anywhere else or play for anyone else when that opportunity arises.

Never missing from any Herm Edwards interview: ask a question to himself and then answer it.

Six sacks is "not very good for anybody"? It is outright the lowest total in NFL history. The record is the 1982 Indianapolis Colts who finished the season with 11. Of course, that was in a 9-game strike season.

That question would be better-answered by Jim Mora (Sr.): "It sucks."

Translation of Herm's answer: it's the players' fault, not mine.

Jared Allen IS a player. And he IS young. What, 26 years old is not young enough? If you're building a team you can't have any of those young building blocks older than 22? What an imbecile.

Draft choices don't make your team better. Better players make your team better. Hopefully you get that in the draft. But trading one of your own draftees, who has not only panned out but who is still very young & fits your defensive scheme in unbelievably perfect fashion, is not a player you let go of. Not when you're $30M under the salary cap before it goes up the following year.

They absolutely DO have an identity: they stink on ice & everyone wishes the Chiefs were on their schedule 16x.

The key is they're going to play together? That's only important if they're any good to begin with.

And using a team's lack of experience as an excuse, when that was what you wanted to do, is just friggin' cowardly. Any fool knows that you can't have a whole team full of non-veterans. Any fool except for the singular fool that is Herman Edwards.

"Identity" seems to be another one of his buzz-words that he repeats & thinks it means something.

We drafted a guy with a top-5 pick to do a certain job, knowing full-well that he has no measurable record of success at doing that job. Good God, he just drafted DRob again.

Herm still looking for his Warren Sapp. Warren Sapp was Warren Sapp. Just find some guys whose own talents are beneficial to your team, Herm, instead of trying to turn non-Warren Sapp players into Warren Sapp (Shawn Ellis & DRob = Sapp II and III; Jon McGraw = Lynch II; just like Herm sees himself as Tony Dungy II).

You gave away a GREAT player and in return you received prospects who may or may not ever pan out before you get fired. That is what you did.

What momentum did the Chiefs have going for them? Losing by a lesser amount than before? That's momentum?

And I always thought playing on a short field is when you have a shorter distance between where you are and the opponent's endzone. Apparently a "short field" is when you take over deep in your own territory. Thanks for clearing that up for me, Herm.

"Make plays" - I love it. I knew he couldn't get through an interview without saying it.

Getting the snot beat out of you week after week is how Herm thinks you learn to play in this league. Super.

1) What an a-hole.

2) He didn't say he's not interested in pursuing it. Chiefs fans everywhere can only dream of a day when he runs away.

And a great way to accomplish that is to trot out 3 rookie CB's. Just masterful.

Whoa - now they've done a pretty good job? They were the object of your blame - specifically singled out by Herm - whenever an opponent moved the ball through the air in one of his many Chiefs losses.

Who's the "you" that can see they're going to be a good football team - the interviewer? He just asked if he's worried about these guys knowing they're a bunch of losers with no hope in sight, so clearly he can't be that "you" Herm's referring to.

Last year is last year? Dude - you were AWFUL last year and have taken a step backwards from that.

Other teams may have gone through being unbelievably awful for 2 years (so far), but it didn't help any of them. Apparently Herm doesn't believe that success breeds success. He thinks failure breeds success.

You thought you were going to & that's why you ran away from the Jets, you filthy coward.

"I....me...I.....I....me...I...me....I. And I would be all too happy to follow up with your next question about me and the only two things I endure: successes and blameless hardships."

"What's great about this"???????

How are Chiefs fans this calm about this guy taking 1 year to dismantle the best offense the franchise has ever seen & then watch it getting even worse? And then taking a lackluster defense & making that worse at the same time.

That's two more questions that Herm asked himself. What's the total for this interview - five? There aren't enough questions asked as it is - Herm needs to ask himself even more questions & then answer them.

Your 3rd string QB is better than the guys you put ahead of him on the depth chart, dumbass. The whole country can see that. And you most definitely ARE using that as an excuse. Because the insinuation is that you'd be in a better position otherwise & you sucked ass before they got injured behind your ragamuffin offensive line. You can't anticipate they wouldn't get hurt - badly - behind that line? You'd think Herm never had a QB of his get injured before.

If everyone is on the same page and you've lost 18 of your last 19, then you should crumple up that page & delete it from memory. Just like you did with every bit of football knowledge you gained as a player.

I used to take pleasure in the woes of the Chiefs fans who tried to rub it in our faces that they got Herm from us. I can't even wish for that, even though he gives me oodles of material every week. Because no NFL fan outside the New England area deserves this sideshow.

Did Mrs. Sperm call you a loser again?

Great job!!

[talisaynon]

i've never seen anyone as bitter as you max, props.

[InstantClassic]

It makes me quiver to think the Jets almost lost to the Chiefs.

[Roger Vick]

As a Chiefs fan, I fully supported the Allen trade, primarily for the fact that we were going to have to pay him 70 million, and if he had a few too many one more time, he was going away for a year.

Compound that with the fact that the guy opened his own bar in KC and yet claimed to be fully off the sauce, and you have a disaster in waiting, unless the guy is Sam Malone.

We got a franchise LT out of the deal (Albert has given up as many sacks as Jake Long for less than half the price, and he's a more athletic player to use out in space), and the second/third best safety prospect in the draft (DaJuan Morgan) along with a guy who will be Gonzalez's eventual replacement.

We had a gun to our head. You can bash Herm for a lot of things, but the Allen trade isn't one of them. Besides, our ****e D only expedites his own departure from KC.

And DT is the hardest position on D to make an immediate impact in. Hell, Dorsey has numbers almost identical to Sapp in his first year, and he has the worst D-Line coach in the league and abysmal "talent" surrounding him.

[Bugg]

"Your 3rd string QB is better than the guys you put ahead of him on the depth chart, dumbass. The whole country can see that. And you most definitely ARE using that as an excuse. Because the insinuation is that you'd be in a better position otherwise & you sucked ass before they got injured behind your ragamuffin offensive line. You can't anticipate they wouldn't get hurt - badly - behind that line? You'd think Herm never had a QB of his get injured before."

Recall in 2001 and 2002 with a WCO OC, Coach Jerk Chicken with the archtype WCO passer on his bench, instead played classic dropback slinger Testaverde(with some luck and success in 2001), and only played Pennington when he had no choice in 2002. And remember in camp in both years he decided to show everyone how his QB find, Tory Woodbury, a total nonentity zero, his feeble attempt to ape Parcells with Ray Lucas, was somehow more of an NFL QB that Chad Pennington. Remember how Pennington was as per Edwards-"he thinks too much, he isn't ready he may never be ready" nonsense while he forcefed Woodbury practice time. And then with his job on the line in 2002 put Pennington in out of deseperation to have him lead the team into an improbable playoff berth, saving his job.

So once again, this MORON has NO IDEA that he has a decent QB riding the pine. Also, once again, he allocates no or minimal draft and FA resources to the OL, and then wonders why the offense sucks. That's akin to not putting a roof on you house and complaining about getting wet when it rains.And for all the resources he throws at the DL and DBs, the defense sucks anyway. Newsflash-you had the most disruptive pass rusher in the NFL in Jared Allen, and for reasons known only to a genius like Edwards, you dumped him.

Yes, there were cap issues, but may be if you had managed thisgs better, you'd find a way to keep him. If it's one chaneg we've seen in the Tannebaum/Mangini Era, is with a plan, you can keep your core guys. You don't start out looking to dump 2/3s of your OL and both starting CBs until you see if they fit. Which is what Edwards did here on Day 1.I fully expect that the Jets will manage a way to give Leon Washington a decent contract while keeping the core together. And as per Whitlock, the Cheifs have clsoe to $30 million in open cap space.

The man is a broken record. ANd I hope never again to hear anyone babble about gap coverage. His team sucks because he's a moron.

[Sperm Edwards]

As a Chiefs fan, I fully supported the Allen trade, primarily for the fact that we were going to have to pay him 70 million, and if he had a few too many one more time, he was going away for a year.

Compound that with the fact that the guy opened his own bar in KC and yet claimed to be fully off the sauce, and you have a disaster in waiting, unless the guy is Sam Malone.

We got a franchise LT out of the deal (Albert has given up as many sacks as Jake Long for less than half the price, and he's a more athletic player to use out in space), and the second/third best safety prospect in the draft (DaJuan Morgan) along with a guy who will be Gonzalez's eventual replacement.

We had a gun to our head. You can bash Herm for a lot of things, but the Allen trade isn't one of them. Besides, our ****e D only expedites his own departure from KC.

And DT is the hardest position on D to make an immediate impact in. Hell, Dorsey has numbers almost identical to Sapp in his first year, and he has the worst D-Line coach in the league and abysmal "talent" surrounding him.

That was my initial reaction to it anyway, seeing the compensation. But I really didn't know KC's roster from top to bottom. It is great to have youth, but a team needs some veteran guidance from good players.

What you have is a team full of inexperienced kids, and the only things they learn are from a coaching staff that should be unemployed and from the beatings they get on Sundays. There is no veteran leadership on your team or from anyone worthy of leading them.

I guess what I'm saying is...you have too many Indians, and not enough Chiefs.

[Maxman]

i've never seen anyone as bitter as you max, props.

How does this thread (that I haven't posted in before now) serve to prove that I am bitter?

I am not denying my bitterness. Just saying I don't know what I did to prove it today.

[Sperm Edwards]

How does this thread (that I haven't posted in before now) serve to prove that I am bitter?

I am not denying my bitterness. Just saying I don't know what I did to prove it today.

You did taste more bitter than usual this morning. Though to be fair I don't have proof.

[RSJ]

As a Chiefs fan, I fully supported the Allen trade, primarily for the fact that we were going to have to pay him 70 million, and if he had a few too many one more time, he was going away for a year.

Compound that with the fact that the guy opened his own bar in KC and yet claimed to be fully off the sauce, and you have a disaster in waiting, unless the guy is Sam Malone.

We got a franchise LT out of the deal (Albert has given up as many sacks as Jake Long for less than half the price, and he's a more athletic player to use out in space), and the second/third best safety prospect in the draft (DaJuan Morgan) along with a guy who will be Gonzalez's eventual replacement.

We had a gun to our head. You can bash Herm for a lot of things, but the Allen trade isn't one of them. Besides, our ****e D only expedites his own departure from KC.

And DT is the hardest position on D to make an immediate impact in. Hell, Dorsey has numbers almost identical to Sapp in his first year, and he has the worst D-Line coach in the league and abysmal "talent" surrounding him.

I don't care if Allen is one strike from a lifetime suspension. He is a franchise typ DE in a system that NEEDS a dominant DL to have a successfull defense. You can throw out all of the stats you want about who you got back in return and it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because none of the players are a blue chip as Allen. Albert isn;t giving up sacks because the rest of your OL is, therefor opponents aren't picking on him like they could be.

And please I've heard how the DL coach suck before and how stats wise a guy is on pace to be the next Sapp. You don't build a team like BBQ'd Chicken likes to. You build it by drafting talented players as using them to their strengths. Not by forcing a square peg into a round hole or by reaching for a less talented version of a former player.

The bottom line is that this press conference sounds just like any one of his from the Jets. I can not believe Chiefs fans are not protesting this guy losing his job after seeing that it is the same act he pulled off in New York.

[abyzmul]

EDWARDS:

[bfett81]

Sperm, do your thing!

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2008/11/26/qa_with_herm_edwards__1126/

[Roger Vick]

That was my initial reaction to it anyway, seeing the compensation. But I really didn't know KC's roster from top to bottom. It is great to have youth, but a team needs some veteran guidance from good players.

What you have is a team full of inexperienced kids, and the only things they learn are from a coaching staff that should be unemployed and from the beatings they get on Sundays. There is no veteran leadership on your team or from anyone worthy of leading them.

I guess what I'm saying is...you have too many Indians, and not enough Chiefs.

I get that, and I buy that line of reasoning.

What I would say in defense of the FO, is that Allen was generally an ass off the field. Last offseason he showed up to a black tie banquet held immediately after the season in a tuxedo t-shirt, jeans, and cowboy boots.

We have good veteran leadership on offense with guys like Brian Waters and Tony Gonzalez, who are consummate pros and excellent players. We have not had that on defense for some time. Jared was a good rah rah guy, but he'd never be the anchor of a locker room.

He's also vastly overrated. The guy had 2 sacks last year in the second half and none in the fourth quarter. It was something that had to be seen to be believed. In the entire time he was in Kansas City, he made one play in the fourth quarter that changed the outcome of a game...in '06 we were playing the Seahawks at Arrowhead and Hasselbeck was out. Our D had given up around 30 points, but LJ had a monster day and Huard was very efficient.

Seattle gets the ball with a few minutes left, Seneca Wallace throws a pass that is deflected by Allen and then intercepted by him. Rather than just crumpling to the ground, he kicks it to the outside, trying to return it, and gets stripped of the football in the process.

FWIW, Tim Krumrie and Gunther should be given Blood Eagles in the renovated Arrowhead parking lot.

[Roger Vick]

I don't care if Allen is one strike from a lifetime suspension. He is a franchise typ DE in a system that NEEDS a dominant DL to have a successfull defense. You can throw out all of the stats you want about who you got back in return and it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because none of the players are a blue chip as Allen. Albert isn;t giving up sacks because the rest of your OL is, therefor opponents aren't picking on him like they could be.

And please I've heard how the DL coach suck before and how stats wise a guy is on pace to be the next Sapp. You don't build a team like BBQ'd Chicken likes to. You build it by drafting talented players as using them to their strengths. Not by forcing a square peg into a round hole or by reaching for a less talented version of a former player.

The bottom line is that this press conference sounds just like any one of his from the Jets. I can not believe Chiefs fans are not protesting this guy losing his job after seeing that it is the same act he pulled off in New York.

I'm gonna behave myself because I'm a guest here, but this post is just patently ignorant.

First of all, I would like you to show me one reputable, non-blog draft board that didn't have Glenn Dorsey as a top five pick in last year's draft. One. To say that Dorsey is being forced into a round hole is way off base. The only system he would be out of place in is a 3-4. He's an excellent under tackle in any 4-3 base defense.

Furthermore, and I've said this over and over to Chiefs fans, this was not a one year trade. At no point was this an "over the top" move like it was for Minnesota. This was our Herschel Walker deal in miniature. You always get worse before you get better when you actually rebuild a team.

Additionally, Herm has almost no support among the general fanbase. Over at ChiefsPlanet, he is neck and neck with Frank Gansz, a guy who lied about being a fighter pilot to get a job as HC of the Chiefs in the late 80's, in a poll over who is the worst coach in our history. This includes guys with winning percentages in the .300's.

And saying that you don't want to hear "X" when it's a valid point is just admitting that you don't have a valid counterargument.

Tim Krumrie has never developed a single defensive lineman in either Buffalo or Kansas City. Not one. He's a horrible coach.

Have you actually watched a Chiefs game this year? Seriously? To say that Albert is not giving up sacks b/c the rest of the O-Line is just reads like you wanted to throw something out as a counterargument in order to make your point look better, all the while you have no idea as to its relevence or accuracy.

He dominated Gaines Adams, roundly handled Richard Seymour, and when he missed the Carolina game, our offense had the worst output in the entire NFL this year with 8 first downs and 127 total yards.

Just as a test of logic, though:

If Willie Roaf gives up 2 sacks in a year is that because the rest of his offensive line was so terrible, or perhaps is it due to the fact that he was really good at what he did?

If you had to give me the option of a franchise LT, and two starters (TE and S) plus saving 40 million plus of cap space to pursue other players, or signing a DE who is one beer away from sitting a year out to a 70 million dollar deal, I'll take the former every time.

[RSJ]

I'm gonna behave myself because I'm a guest here, but this post is just patently ignorant.

First of all, I would like you to show me one reputable, non-blog draft board that didn't have Glenn Dorsey as a top five pick in last year's draft. One. To say that Dorsey is being forced into a round hole is way off base. The only system he would be out of place in is a 3-4. He's an excellent under tackle in any 4-3 base defense.

Furthermore, and I've said this over and over to Chiefs fans, this was not a one year trade. At no point was this an "over the top" move like it was for Minnesota. This was our Herschel Walker deal in miniature. You always get worse before you get better when you actually rebuild a team.

Additionally, Herm has almost no support among the general fanbase. Over at ChiefsPlanet, he is neck and neck with Frank Gansz, a guy who lied about being a fighter pilot to get a job as HC of the Chiefs in the late 80's, in a poll over who is the worst coach in our history. This includes guys with winning percentages in the .300's.

And saying that you don't want to hear "X" when it's a valid point is just admitting that you don't have a valid counterargument.

Tim Krumrie has never developed a single defensive lineman in either Buffalo or Kansas City. Not one. He's a horrible coach.

Have you actually watched a Chiefs game this year? Seriously? To say that Albert is not giving up sacks b/c the rest of the O-Line is just reads like you wanted to throw something out as a counterargument in order to make your point look better, all the while you have no idea as to its relevence or accuracy.

He dominated Gaines Adams, roundly handled Richard Seymour, and when he missed the Carolina game, our offense had the worst output in the entire NFL this year with 8 first downs and 127 total yards.

Just as a test of logic, though:

If Willie Roaf gives up 2 sacks in a year is that because the rest of his offensive line was so terrible, or perhaps is it due to the fact that he was really good at what he did?

If you had to give me the option of a franchise LT, and two starters (TE and S) plus saving 40 million plus of cap space to pursue other players, or signing a DE who is one beer away from sitting a year out to a 70 million dollar deal, I'll take the former every time.

Look, the whole Chiefs team sucks including Dorsey and Albert. You traded away a franchise defensive end. Pass rushing defensive ends are gold compared to the crap you got in return. Allen is a franchise DE right now so to compare him to an unknown who is playing decent right now is laughable. And please don't bring up the 40 million when your team is 30 million under the cap this year because it makes it a non point. You guys got ripped off plain and simple. Herscel Walker never did jack sh!t after he was traded. Allen is performing.

[Sperm Edwards]

I get that, and I buy that line of reasoning.

What I would say in defense of the FO, is that Allen was generally an ass off the field. Last offseason he showed up to a black tie banquet held immediately after the season in a tuxedo t-shirt, jeans, and cowboy boots.

We have good veteran leadership on offense with guys like Brian Waters and Tony Gonzalez, who are consummate pros and excellent players. We have not had that on defense for some time. Jared was a good rah rah guy, but he'd never be the anchor of a locker room.

He's also vastly overrated. The guy had 2 sacks last year in the second half and none in the fourth quarter. It was something that had to be seen to be believed. In the entire time he was in Kansas City, he made one play in the fourth quarter that changed the outcome of a game...in '06 we were playing the Seahawks at Arrowhead and Hasselbeck was out. Our D had given up around 30 points, but LJ had a monster day and Huard was very efficient.

Seattle gets the ball with a few minutes left, Seneca Wallace throws a pass that is deflected by Allen and then intercepted by him. Rather than just crumpling to the ground, he kicks it to the outside, trying to return it, and gets stripped of the football in the process.

FWIW, Tim Krumrie and Gunther should be given Blood Eagles in the renovated Arrowhead parking lot.

Fair enough. I don't watch enough Chiefs games from beginning to end to make those assessments, so I'll take your word for it.

But when I step back from the minutia & look at it from afar: this is an immensely talented young man whose on-field production panned out better than anyone could have reasonably dreamed from a 4th round pick.

At the time of the trade, you didn't get a franchise left tackle, the 3rd-best safety in the draft (for whatever that's worth), or Gonzo's alleged long-term replacement. What you got was 3 draft picks, two of them on day-two of the draft. The rosy upside to any of those draft picks is to pick a player that pans out as well as Jared Allen. Except you already had Jared Allen.

When players disappear at the end of games or at the end of the season, that sounds like conditioning to me. Herm was never good at that with his players when he was here. He's just not good at maintaining order. His most talented veterans (LJ and Gonzo) seem more than aware of what a fool he is. Both would jump at the chance to get the hell out of there & it's not because of bad Chiefs fans. Allen wanted out also. Shields chose retirement over one more year with coach dumbo.

When your most talented players want to play for someone else, or would rather retire than suit up for your franchise, then you have to point your finger at the guy they don't want to play for & make adjustments. This goes for Peterson as well, as Herm didn't do this all by himself.

What can I say? I just don't like the guy. And I'm far from alone in that regard.

[bfett81]

Fair enough. I don't watch enough Chiefs games from beginning to end to make those assessments, so I'll take your word for it.

But when I step back from the minutia & look at it from afar: this is an immensely talented young man whose on-field production panned out better than anyone could have reasonably dreamed from a 4th round pick.

At the time of the trade, you didn't get a franchise left tackle, the 3rd-best safety in the draft (for whatever that's worth), or Gonzo's alleged long-term replacement. What you got was 3 draft picks, two of them on day-two of the draft. The rosy upside to any of those draft picks is to pick a player that pans out as well as Jared Allen. Except you already had Jared Allen.

When players disappear at the end of games or at the end of the season, that sounds like conditioning to me. Herm was never good at that with his players when he was here. He's just not good at maintaining order. His most talented veterans (LJ and Gonzo) seem more than aware of what a fool he is. Both would jump at the chance to get the hell out of there & it's not because of bad Chiefs fans. Allen wanted out also. Shields chose retirement over one more year with coach dumbo.

When your most talented players want to play for someone else, or would rather retire than suit up for your franchise, then you have to point your finger at the guy they don't want to play for & make adjustments. This goes for Peterson as well, as Herm didn't do this all by himself.

What can I say? I just don't like the guy. And I'm far from alone in that regard.

The real reason Allen left is Carl Peterson. They were at odds.

John Tait left for the same reason. We haven't had a decent right tackle since.

Of course it was Carl who just had to have Herm and had to give up a Leon Washington for his services. Carl is the real problem, although the problem he created (Herm) might outlast him, thereby presenting a much larger problem at the moment.

There's a belief out there that Carl will be fired or kicked upstairs after this season and Bill Kuharich will take over as GM with Herm firmly entrenched. Of course anyone can realize Herm would have the real power in that relationship. Kuharich isn't about to fire Herm.

EDIT - of course Herm wrested power from Carl this offseason according to some. Carl isn't about to fire Herm, either. They are also at odds, if you believe some people.

That's our Herm. Nice way to pay back the guy who rescued you from New York. Stab him in the back.

[jetguy32]

WHY DOES ANYONE CARE WHAT THIS MORON IS DOING. HE HAS BEEN GONE 3 YEARS NOW. ARE WE GOING TO DO THIS WITH EVERY COACH THAT LEAVES. THIS IS JUST DUMB AT THIS POINT.

[serphnx]

The real reason Allen left is Carl Peterson. They were at odds.

John Tait left for the same reason. We haven't had a decent right tackle since.

Of course it was Carl who just had to have Herm and had to give up a Leon Washington for his services. Carl is the real problem, although the problem he created (Herm) might outlast him, thereby presenting a much larger problem at the moment.

There's a belief out there that Carl will be fired or kicked upstairs after this season and Bill Kuharich will take over as GM with Herm firmly entrenched. Of course anyone can realize Herm would have the real power in that relationship. Kuharich isn't about to fire Herm.

EDIT - of course Herm wrested power from Carl this offseason according to some. Carl isn't about to fire Herm, either. They are also at odds, if you believe some people.

That's our Herm. Nice way to pay back the guy who rescued you from New York. Stab him in the back.

Rescued? Herm wanted to leave, so he left. Peterson had very little to do with it, if anything, Peterson almost screwed it up by offering such a ridiculously low compensation for tampering with a coach and trying to steal him. The same way he screwed up a Tony Gonzales trade.

If we didn't already want to get rid of Herm anyway, and if Herm hadn't already all but orchestrated his escape, there is no way Peterson "pulls off" his "steal."

I think Peterson is the worst GM in the league, even worse than Millen. I don't know if Millen even still has a job, but at least the Lions have always been awful. Peterson and Herm ruined a good team. Millen just has failed to turn a terrible franchise around. If he's still the GM, he also fooled the Cowboys, and Calvin Johnson is a great pick. Kevin Smith isn't a bad back by any means either. If that team ever got a legit NFL QB and defense they'd be pretty good. Hell, just a QB for now would be a huge step, atleast then they could get into shootouts.

[ECURB]

WHY DOES ANYONE CARE WHAT THIS MORON IS DOING. HE HAS BEEN GONE 3 YEARS NOW. ARE WE GOING TO DO THIS WITH EVERY COACH THAT LEAVES. THIS IS JUST DUMB AT THIS POINT.

Its the NFL forum... lots of things outside the JETS are talked about...

Relax.... seriously....

SERIOUSLY

[BP]

WHY DOES ANYONE CARE WHAT THIS MORON IS DOING. HE HAS BEEN GONE 3 YEARS NOW. ARE WE GOING TO DO THIS WITH EVERY COACH THAT LEAVES. THIS IS JUST DUMB AT THIS POINT.

I care, and so do a lot of other posters. if it's that dumb, why are you spending so much time and effort replying about it?

[Roger Vick]

Look, the whole Chiefs team sucks including Dorsey and Albert. You traded away a franchise defensive end. Pass rushing defensive ends are gold compared to the crap you got in return. Allen is a franchise DE right now so to compare him to an unknown who is playing decent right now is laughable. And please don't bring up the 40 million when your team is 30 million under the cap this year because it makes it a non point. You guys got ripped off plain and simple. Herscel Walker never did jack sh!t after he was traded. Allen is performing.

How can you say that a rookie defensive tackle sucks? It's the hardest position to learn and play on the defense, and Dorsey was by most accounts the best prospect in the draft last year.

You have absolutely no evidence to say that Albert sucks other than the fact that you want him to "suck" for the purpose of your argument. Tautology doesn't work...sorry dude.

Saying that a pass rushing DE is gold compared to a left tackle is moronic. They are positions of equal value, and I've seen Jared Allen go up against elite left tackles...it wasn't pretty. Whether it was Tarik Glenn (not exactly elite), Jonathon Ogden, or Walter Jones, he was roundly handled. Sure, he could whip a guy like Robert Gallery or a decrepit Matt Lepsis, but that's not saying much.

He's a very good player, but he's not the perennial pro bowler that people made him out to be. He's a very good, but not a great pass rusher who can be run at quite effectively.

[Sperm Edwards]

DT is not the hardest position to learn on defense. It's just not.

[bfett81]

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2008/11/27/qa_with_herm_edwards__1127/

[RSJ]

DT is not the hardest position to learn on defense. It's just not.

It's only the hardest position to learn if you play for Herm Edwards.

Let me guess the excuses that are being used:

1) The handfighting is much different at this level.

2) He is being double teamed a lot so he should be taking credit for other guys getting tackles.

3) The gap assignments are tough to learn.

When everything else fails, blame gap assignments.

[RSJ]

Saying that a pass rushing DE is gold compared to a left tackle is moronic. They are positions of equal value, and I've seen Jared Allen go up against elite left tackles...it wasn't pretty. Whether it was Tarik Glenn (not exactly elite), Jonathon Ogden, or Walter Jones, he was roundly handled. Sure, he could whip a guy like Robert Gallery or a decrepit Matt Lepsis, but that's not saying much.

Albert is far from an elite LT so lets take that off the table right now. As a matter of fact most scouts feel he is a better guard. Now that being said DE's are gold compared to any other position. It is extremly hard to find a DE that can rush the passer and stop the run which Allen can do very well. As far as his performance against elite goes, he wasn't exactly playing on the 85 Bears. I would still say Allen is a top 10 DE in the league. You don't give that up for draft picks.

[RSJ]

Bfett81 - It may seem like I'm being a jerk - but I have seen all of this before. back up five years and you sound like some Jets fans who defended letting Coles go for Dwayne Robertson. It seems like a great idea when reading the newspapers - but just remember that Herm controls the press by giving them good quotes, insight into his gameplans and lots of face time.

[NYSE]

Herms biggest problem is that KC lies in the heart of the BBQ belt....too many distractions.

[bfett81]

Bfett81 - It may seem like I'm being a jerk - but I have seen all of this before. back up five years and you sound like some Jets fans who defended letting Coles go for Dwayne Robertson. It seems like a great idea when reading the newspapers - but just remember that Herm controls the press by giving them good quotes, insight into his gameplans and lots of face time.

Do you see my avatar?