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With respect for Favre's arm teams dont stack the box anymore against us


SouthernJet

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Go for it, because nowhere did I say Warner > Favre or Warner < Favre, so it would be pointless.

What I did say is Warner is not this great over the top deep ball thrower either. Look at the 2 he threw last night. 1 was a pick, the other Fitzgerald caught a ball way underthrown.

What Favre is good at is hitting a slanter in perfect stride so they can keep going. I'm curious to know how he does was balls thrown OVER 30 yds in the AIR if you are going to do this comparison.

Nice to see you guys can argue your point without resorting to personal attacks, good job.:roll:

Fair enough on Warner, I haven't seen enough of him this season to truly judge and I'll admit I'm going by highlights where I'm sure I've seen some pretty good deep balls. I shouldn't have thrown his name in that category.

That's all besides my original point. I don't think Favre is up there with the likes of Manning and Brees who both throw GREAT deep balls, to the point were you almost know that it's going to be complete at the moment it leaves their hands. Favre's never been like that with the long ball, it's always a risky game with him. Yes he's had some GREAT deep throws but even from that highlight video the tard posted in an attempt to prove me wrong had a pass thrown straight to the defender that should have been picked where Freeman somehow comes up with the ball.

Favre is a good deep thrower, but not one of the all time greats. In the short game he's one of the best ever because of his ability to fit balls in the tightest of windows.

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Irish Jet you're just retarded. You're saying I'm the tard for posting that video?

I've seen Favre play since 1995. And no, the Freeman TD catch is a throw EVERY QB

would make. 1 on 1 with the best receiver in the league at the time caught it.

Why don't you call Tom Brady too risky for throwing deep balls to Randy Moss in

DOUBLE COVERAGE all of last year? And guess what, Randy still caught them. It

always seems the only thing you say on here are the same things the announcers

say during the game and you use that to try to come across as someone who actually

knows what they're talking about. Favre can be inconsistent at times with the deep ball

but most of the time they're still catchable but the majority of the time he throws

a great long pass. You're trying to compare what little you've seen this year and

say that's the way it's always been and it's not like that. Favre down the field passes

were spot on all of last year and has had tons of years where they're near flawless.

Go jump off a cliff moron.

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lol man you're too funny!

It's not just your opinion. It's that you dont know but you keep claiming you do

over and over and over again. I'm done with this thread.

So you're saying Favre is a better downfield passer than he is short passer.

Look not once did I state Favre is bad at throwing the ball downfield. I know he's good and I know he's made some GREAT throws. I just don't put him up there with the all time greats like so many do. If you disagree with me that's fine, I just don't think I'll kill myself over it like you advised.

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Nice to see you guys can argue your point without resorting to personal attacks, good job.:roll:

Fair enough on Warner, I haven't seen enough of him this season to truly judge and I'll admit I'm going by highlights where I'm sure I've seen some pretty good deep balls. I shouldn't have thrown his name in that category.

That's all besides my original point. I don't think Favre is up there with the likes of Manning and Brees who both throw GREAT deep balls, to the point were you almost know that it's going to be complete at the moment it leaves their hands. Favre's never been like that with the long ball, it's always a risky game with him. Yes he's had some GREAT deep throws but even from that highlight video the tard posted in an attempt to prove me wrong had a pass thrown straight to the defender that should have been picked where Freeman somehow comes up with the ball.

Favre is a good deep thrower, but not one of the all time greats. In the short game he's one of the best ever because of his ability to fit balls in the tightest of windows.

You threw Kurt Warner's name out and now you're backing off that (as you should), so how are you sure on Brees and Peyton?

I doubt either Brees or Peyton would claim they have a better deep ball than Favre. The reason why is nobody can definitively say they are better than Favre at any facet of the game. After some point it's just pure unprovable opinion.

Some guy earlier on posted that Romo has a better deep ball because TO had to catch up to one. Uh hello? Favre can still throw it possibly the furthest in the league. I'd say Cutler and Russell are the only two others that are in the running with him, and I'm not sure of that either. Favre can easily overthrow any pass he wants, it's just he doesn't bother, especially since we don't have the personnel. There is a reason TO has openly pined to play with Favre.

Also for my money, ironically enough, I think the best deep ball guy is McNabb. TO couldn't wait to get away from him though. McNabb gets the ball out there quickly, has the best accuracy for the deep pass I've seen, and doesn't need much of a windup.

Anyway back to Brees and Peyton, their bombs are no sure things. They misfire quite often on them, especially Peyton. The think about Peyton is the arch the ball takes. It's one of the better archs in the game. I guess that makes it a good deep ball.

Btw, Warner, who you hyped for the deep ball, has probably the lowest trajectory ball I've ever seen. He loves intermediate routes, and that low trajectory is why he is good, since the ball doesn't really travel high it's tough to react to, and you can hit an outside shoulder or on a very quick break, so defenders have very little time to react. Favre is similar, on his short stuff he usually has very low trajectory and in addition he fires them all in at ridiculous speeds.

Man, you'd think a guy known for being able to put the ball in tight spots would get a LITTLE credit. A guy known to be a gunslinger as well. Yeah, his deep ball isn't very good, nobody ever heard of Favre throwing deep ever. Let's ignore common sense and visual evidence, and use crappy logic.

It's like the Chad Pennington logic. Oh, he has a crappy arm, so he MUST be smarter than other QBs and run the dink and dunk better! Hell no. He happens to have a crappy arm and not be very good period.

With Favre, since he's so great at the short stuff, apparently, obviously, he must not be great at the long ball. No. The dude is a top 5 QB of all time, he is great at everything. There is no facet that he is not arguably the best in the league currently (well, fine, he doesn't run, but that's not exactly a QB requirement).

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So you're saying Favre is a better downfield passer than he is short passer.

Look not once did I state Favre is bad at throwing the ball downfield. I know he's good and I know he's made some GREAT throws. I just don't put him up there with the all time greats like so many do. If you disagree with me that's fine, I just don't think I'll kill myself over it like you advised.

No, read my post before this one. You have been arguing repeatedly that Favre is not a great downfield thrower. Try to use your own logic and not connect two unrelated things together.

He is not even mentioning the short or intermediate game. He is simply saying that Favre is one of the better QBs in the long game. YOU are somehow building two Favres and having them compete with each other, and claiming Favre is bad at one facet, as if you can cut them apart anyway. He, and me as well, think Favre is great at both aspects. Whether he is better short or long is completely irrelevant to your argument, as the players you mentioned, like Brees and Peyton, you didn't compare them either and nullify their long game. Peyton and Brees are WAY better at the shorter and intermediate routes than the longer routes. NOBODY in the NFL, aside from the possible exception of DA who is terrible overall and especially short, is better at the longer routes as compared to the shorter routes.

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You threw Kurt Warner's name out and now you're backing off that (as you should), so how are you sure on Brees and Peyton?

I doubt either Brees or Peyton would claim they have a better deep ball than Favre. The reason why is nobody can definitively say they are better than Favre at any facet of the game. After some point it's just pure unprovable opinion.

Some guy earlier on posted that Romo has a better deep ball because TO had to catch up to one. Uh hello? Favre can still throw it possibly the furthest in the league. I'd say Cutler and Russell are the only two others that are in the running with him, and I'm not sure of that either. Favre can easily overthrow any pass he wants, it's just he doesn't bother, especially since we don't have the personnel. There is a reason TO has openly pined to play with Favre.

Also for my money, ironically enough, I think the best deep ball guy is McNabb. TO couldn't wait to get away from him though. McNabb gets the ball out there quickly, has the best accuracy for the deep pass I've seen, and doesn't need much of a windup.

Anyway back to Brees and Peyton, their bombs are no sure things. They misfire quite often on them, especially Peyton. The think about Peyton is the arch the ball takes. It's one of the better archs in the game. I guess that makes it a good deep ball.

Btw, Warner, who you hyped for the deep ball, has probably the lowest trajectory ball I've ever seen. He loves intermediate routes, and that low trajectory is why he is good, since the ball doesn't really travel high it's tough to react to, and you can hit an outside shoulder or on a very quick break, so defenders have very little time to react. Favre is similar, on his short stuff he usually has very low trajectory and in addition he fires them all in at ridiculous speeds.

Man, you'd think a guy known for being able to put the ball in tight spots would get a LITTLE credit. A guy known to be a gunslinger as well. Yeah, his deep ball isn't very good, nobody ever heard of Favre throwing deep ever. Let's ignore common sense and visual evidence, and use crappy logic.

It's like the Chad Pennington logic. Oh, he has a crappy arm, so he MUST be smarter than other QBs and run the dink and dunk better! Hell no. He happens to have a crappy arm and not be very good period.

With Favre, since he's so great at the short stuff, apparently, obviously, he must not be great at the long ball. No. The dude is a top 5 QB of all time, he is great at everything. There is no facet that he is not arguably the best in the league currently (well, fine, he doesn't run, but that's not exactly a QB requirement).

He likes to gauge things on stats alone. Warner has tons of 30+ yd receptions... but a large % of them are because he hit Holt or Bruce in perfect stride and they took it to the house. Your analysis of Warner is dead on.

Favre is a top QB of all time which means just about everything aspect he does at least well. I don't thin FlipFlopJet is saying Favre throws a bad deep ball, so I agree with him there, but to say Manning or Brees throws a better one is a laugh. They throw VERY GOOD ones, but for AGES Brees had the rap of having a BAD arm. Turns out for him, when he got his rotator repaired, his arm came back STRONGER. Playing in a dome out of the elements doesn't hurt either.

Brett Favre threw awesome deep balls in 20 degree temps with wind... something Brees or Manning never really had to do. Watch Manning play in the cold.. he's a mortal then. There aren't many instances of Brees in those cold conditions, but you'll see the same results.

In sum, you can't judge on stats alone. USE YOUR EYES. Watch the games. If you haven't seen a guy much, then reserve judgement until you do. Someone coming out saying Warner throws an awesome deep ball the night after he threw 2 very poor ones is just classic.

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He likes to gauge things on stats alone. Warner has tons of 30+ yd receptions... but a large % of them are because he hit Holt or Bruce in perfect stride and they took it to the house. Your analysis of Warner is dead on.

Favre is a top QB of all time which means just about everything aspect he does at least well. I don't thin FlipFlopJet is saying Favre throws a bad deep ball, so I agree with him there, but to say Manning or Brees throws a better one is a laugh. They throw VERY GOOD ones, but for AGES Brees had the rap of having a BAD arm. Turns out for him, when he got his rotator repaired, his arm came back STRONGER. Playing in a dome out of the elements doesn't hurt either.

Brett Favre threw awesome deep balls in 20 degree temps with wind... something Brees or Manning never really had to do. Watch Manning play in the cold.. he's a mortal then. There aren't many instances of Brees in those cold conditions, but you'll see the same results.

In sum, you can't judge on stats alone. USE YOUR EYES. Watch the games. If you haven't seen a guy much, then reserve judgement until you do. Someone coming out saying Warner throws an awesome deep ball the night after he threw 2 very poor ones is just classic.

You don't need a great arm to throw a great deep ball. That is one of my main points. Drew Brees throws one of the best deep balls I've ever seen, this season he's been unreal while Favre has been relatively average throwing downfield this season. You use the YAC against Warner but really, how many greatly thrown deep balls has Favre connected on this season? A few do spring to mind but nowhere to the level of a Drew Brees.

Using the YAC stat against Warner would be something you could very easily use with Favre too. His WR's have ALWAYS posted great numbers after the catch including this season, so if it works against Warner as you say it does, it works against Favre too.

Also how the **** am I basing this off of stats? Have I used one stat at all in my entire arguement? I am doing exactly what you said and using my eyes.

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Irish Jet you're just retarded. You're saying I'm the tard for posting that video?

I've seen Favre play since 1995. And no, the Freeman TD catch is a throw EVERY QB

would make. 1 on 1 with the best receiver in the league at the time caught it.

Why don't you call Tom Brady too risky for throwing deep balls to Randy Moss in

DOUBLE COVERAGE all of last year? And guess what, Randy still caught them. It

always seems the only thing you say on here are the same things the announcers

say during the game and you use that to try to come across as someone who actually

knows what they're talking about. Favre can be inconsistent at times with the deep ball

but most of the time they're still catchable but the majority of the time he throws

a great long pass. You're trying to compare what little you've seen this year and

say that's the way it's always been and it's not like that. Favre down the field passes

were spot on all of last year and has had tons of years where they're near flawless.

Go jump off a cliff moron.

Are you always this sweet or just at certain times each month?

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So you're saying Favre is a better downfield passer than he is short passer.

Look not once did I state Favre is bad at throwing the ball downfield. I know he's good and I know he's made some GREAT throws. I just don't put him up there with the all time greats like so many do. If you disagree with me that's fine, I just don't think I'll kill myself over it like you advised.

Me thinks you haven't seen enough of Favre in his career..

Is Favre a great or even good downfield passer now? Absolutely not. IN fact his touch passes are usually off the mark of late.

imo though, he was a very good down the field passer in his hey day..

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Irish Jet you're just retarded. You're saying I'm the tard for posting that video?

I've seen Favre play since 1995. And no, the Freeman TD catch is a throw EVERY QB

would make. 1 on 1 with the best receiver in the league at the time caught it.

Why don't you call Tom Brady too risky for throwing deep balls to Randy Moss in

DOUBLE COVERAGE all of last year? And guess what, Randy still caught them. It

always seems the only thing you say on here are the same things the announcers

say during the game and you use that to try to come across as someone who actually

knows what they're talking about. Favre can be inconsistent at times with the deep ball

but most of the time they're still catchable but the majority of the time he throws

a great long pass. You're trying to compare what little you've seen this year and

say that's the way it's always been and it's not like that. Favre down the field passes

were spot on all of last year and has had tons of years where they're near flawless.

Go jump off a cliff moron.

:rl: pwned

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You don't need a great arm to throw a great deep ball. That is one of my main points. Drew Brees throws one of the best deep balls I've ever seen, this season he's been unreal while Favre has been relatively average throwing downfield this season. You use the YAC against Warner but really, how many greatly thrown deep balls has Favre connected on this season? A few do spring to mind but nowhere to the level of a Drew Brees.

Using the YAC stat against Warner would be something you could very easily use with Favre too. His WR's have ALWAYS posted great numbers after the catch including this season, so if it works against Warner as you say it does, it works against Favre too.

Also how the **** am I basing this off of stats? Have I used one stat at all in my entire arguement? I am doing exactly what you said and using my eyes.

This year, Drew Brees has been great. Frankly, since his rotator surgery, his deep ball has been awesome. Before then, it was not so hot.

It's knid of unfair to compare deep balls between NO and NYJ. NO has a bunch of guys who stretch the field. NYJ does not.

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Amazing how he can make both the OL and running game better. Yes the OL is significantley better, but having Favre upgrades the whole offense to the next degree.

You know what it is? Favre finally knows the playbook. Those 3 losses we took you can tell off the bat that Brett was in a transition. Look at the last 3 games, Brett is looking damn near unstoppable...and whats even more crazy is that its a surprise for anyteam that has ever played against him because this isnt the Brett that the NFL knew. Its like Looking at a Master and not having any info on how to beat him.

Its lookin special this year!

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I agree with this statement. Drew Breezie is unconscious out there right now. Best arm in the league right now no doubt. Favre is having an awesome year, however, maybe the packers werent wrong afterall about Favre because his deep ball is not the deep ball of old. Honestly, I think this is the best thing that has ever happened to both teams in the long run. I believe that Favre just so happened to actually come up lucky most of all from becoming a Jet. Think about it, the Packers playbook is very deep ball friendly. The Best two throws I've seen Brett Favre throw as a Jet was in preseason. He threw a TIGHT spiral to Cotchery in one game that was called back for a penalty, and a BULLET to Brad Smith in another game. The Brad smith one had so much heat on it that you heard the ball zipping threw the air on television. Thats sick. What I think happened was early in the season I do think Brett got hurt (We all remember earlier in the season and how Brett looked getting up from hits). None the less, I really think that Favre has realized that his body isnt capable of doing what its been doing for 270 straight games. I think that the Jets offensive system is perfect for Favre at his stage of his career and we're going to get as much out of him (season wise) as the Packers did. His ability to understand the position of a QB is still there because thats all mental, so he's still brett favre. For his transition into a "Pennington" like system allows him to use that system making "Brett Favre" decisions. Remember, when Chad used the system perfectly Pennington was doing damage in the league given he had the help around him. What does Favre have? He has one of the most young, disiplined O-lines in the league, he has Thomas Jones being one of the best RB's in the league and probably the best in the AFC, you have Leon Washington running back kickoffs, and 61yarders..with 7 TD's in the last 6 games, You have Coles catching footballs again, You have your deep threat in Cotchery and you have a monster defense to keep the other team off the field. Oh,...and I dont wanna even mention Dustin Keller.

to make my point. Favre's deep game isnt there, but we dont need it. avg 30pts a game....why fix whats not broke?

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Hey guys the personal attacks are embarrassing. Seriously.

Really?

Personal attacks are kind of fun..

A day doesn't go by that I don't call one of my good buds something derogatory. In fact, just today I photoshopped my friends face onto the Lance Bass "I'm Gay" People cover and forward edit to all his family an friends.

We're all Jets fans, I wish we all use that commonality to browbeat each other like good friends do

:)

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FWIW, certainly no expert but just just one fans observations.

1) Farve in his GB days, could go deep as well as most QB's but his bread and butter was the slant were the rec would get the ball in full stride. He still does that better than most.

2) He still is a master of faking handoffs and passes making defenders hesitate, which can sometimes make all the difference on a play.

3) As a Jet, as well as he has played and he has been terrific, he has not looked the same when thowing deep.

I think there are multiple factors for this.

He is older and his arm may no longer be as strong. (maybe)

Our starting recievers are very good but are not burners so seperation is an issue. Also as a Jet alot of these deep attempts were under a rush causing him to throw a little premature and off balance hence his deep passes as a Jet have been picked, fell short or were battled for, for tough receptions by our recievers. No clean caught, in stride bombs since he got here that I can think of.

Personally, I think the very long pass completion is a thing of beauty but not essential to winning most football games.

Maybe he is only 90% of what he once was but that is still better than most starters in the NFL.

Again, no expert here just a long time fan.

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FWIW, certainly no expert but just just one fans observations.

1) Farve in his GB days, could go deep as well as most QB's but his bread and butter was the slant were the rec would get the ball in full stride. He still does that better than most.

2) He still is a master of faking handoffs and passes making defenders hesitate, which can sometimes make all the difference on a play.

3) As a Jet, as well as he has played and he has been terrific, he has not looked the same when thowing deep.

I think there are multiple factors for this.

He is older and his arm may no longer be as strong. (maybe)

Our starting recievers are very good but are not burners so seperation is an issue. Also as a Jet alot of these deep attempts were under a rush causing him to throw a little premature and off balance hence his deep passes as a Jet have been picked, fell short or were battled for, for tough receptions by our recievers. No clean caught, in stride bombs since he got here that I can think of.

Personally, I think the very long pass completion is a thing of beauty but not essential to winning most football games.

Maybe he is only 90% of what he once was but that is still better than most starters in the NFL.

Again, no expert here just a long time fan.

I would agree partly on that, in the situation of the WR's not getting separation, however, the reason why it may seem like that is only because Favre isnt throwing bombs ahead of his target. He's not over throwing anyone. Look at the Cothery catch against that Dolphins and Pats. Cothery was WIDE OPEN on the play against the Dolphins and the only reason why he was able to catch it for a TD is because he had that much space between him and the defender. Check out the plays on youtube. You'll see what im talking about.

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Really?

Personal attacks are kind of fun..

A day doesn't go by that I don't call one of my good buds something derogatory. In fact, just today I photoshopped my friends face onto the Lance Bass "I'm Gay" People cover and forward edit to all his family an friends.

We're all Jets fans, I wish we all use that commonality to browbeat each other like good friends do

:)

Kill yourself moron.

:winking0001:

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FWIW, certainly no expert but just just one fans observations.

1) Farve in his GB days, could go deep as well as most QB's but his bread and butter was the slant were the rec would get the ball in full stride. He still does that better than most.

2) He still is a master of faking handoffs and passes making defenders hesitate, which can sometimes make all the difference on a play.

3) As a Jet, as well as he has played and he has been terrific, he has not looked the same when thowing deep.

I think there are multiple factors for this.

He is older and his arm may no longer be as strong. (maybe)

Our starting recievers are very good but are not burners so seperation is an issue. Also as a Jet alot of these deep attempts were under a rush causing him to throw a little premature and off balance hence his deep passes as a Jet have been picked, fell short or were battled for, for tough receptions by our recievers. No clean caught, in stride bombs since he got here that I can think of.

Personally, I think the very long pass completion is a thing of beauty but not essential to winning most football games.

Maybe he is only 90% of what he once was but that is still better than most starters in the NFL.

Again, no expert here just a long time fan.

There were a couple of games were this looked painfully obvious. The Oakland game especially where the balls seemed to be floating on him big time. I'm convinced he was playing hurt though. Ron Jaworski had analyzed how his motion had changed at that point in the season and he wasn't getting nearly the same zip on his passes. He must have been dealing with an injury though.

Now though he's back to throwing lasers and although his downfield throwing might not be what it used to be, he can still throw a serious fast ball into a tight window.

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