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System quarterback


BigOrangeJetFan

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OK, so Cassell has learned the Pats system and has performed increasingly well.

Why couldn't Clemens/Ratliff do the same with us?

Clemens had his shot last year with a terrible OL. Safe throws, with the threat of a home run throw could work.

What I'm saying, is: if Brett F doesn't return next year, we could still be very competitive.

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OK, so Cassell has learned the Pats system and has performed increasingly well.

Why couldn't Clemens/Ratliff do the same with us?

Clemens had his shot last year with a terrible OL. Safe throws, with the threat of a home run throw could work.

What I'm saying, is: if Brett F doesn't return next year, we could still be very competitive.

Cassel is accurate on short passses.

Clemens is NOT. Not even CLOSE.

Ratliff I can't speak of. I'd want to see it in the regular season before Im convinced, but he looks to be more accurate than Clemens, but then again I think Helen Keller is more accurate than Clemens.

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OK, so Cassell has learned the Pats system and has performed increasingly well.

Why couldn't Clemens/Ratliff do the same with us?

Clemens had his shot last year with a terrible OL. Safe throws, with the threat of a home run throw could work.

What I'm saying, is: if Brett F doesn't return next year, we could still be very competitive.

In order to have a system QB, you first need a "system."

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First of all there is no guarantee that we even have a successful system. We hav no track record to say we do. Secondly Clemens is hideous. His football is all over the field and for some strange reason all our receivers drop the ball when it actually hits them in the hands. If Favre was to retire Id think there is a better chance we see Ratliff than KC.

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The Pats have a better system.

Rather than give Brady or Cassell any credit the haters say that they are "system QB's" I agree that they are QB's in the Patriots system.

So no other teams have a system? Is that why the Patriots are so good every year?

When do you think other NFL teams will understand that they need a system?

The Steelers have no system? The Colts? Giants?

You people kill me.

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Rather than give Brady or Cassell any credit the haters say that they are "system QB's" I agree that they are QB's in the Patriots system.

So no other teams have a system? Is that why the Patriots are so good every year?

When do you think other NFL teams will understand that they need a system?

The Steelers have no system? The Colts? Giants?

You people kill me.

You look for teams where there is no drop in performance between Qbs. There is a significant difference between Romo and Brad Johnson. Clemens/Chad and Favre. Roethlisberger and Charlie Batch.

A team like Tampa sees very little difference between a Brian Griese or a Jeff Garcia. Houston with Matt Schaub and Sage Rosenfels. I think the Packers thought there would be no drop between Aaron Rodgers and Favre. I dont think that Brady is a product of the system, but I dont think you can deny that the dropoff has not been anywhere near as bad as people thought it would be. Usually that is the sign where the system is often greater than the player.

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+1

No Moss and Casell would look horrible.

And yes, Kellen Clemens would look good with a motivated Moss..

But Brady was a "system QB" long before Moss and Welker came along.

Perhaps someone could explain this system QB thing to me :rolleyes: ????????????

I see it throw around a lot when talking about Patriots QB'S but no other NFL QB's.

I know I will not get an answer to this because the whole "system QB" is an attempt to take something away from the Patriots.

System QB = bu!! sh!t

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You look for teams where there is no drop in performance between Qbs. There is a significant difference between Romo and Brad Johnson. Clemens/Chad and Favre. Roethlisberger and Charlie Batch.

A team like Tampa sees very little difference between a Brian Griese or a Jeff Garcia. Houston with Matt Schaub and Sage Rosenfels. I think the Packers thought there would be no drop between Aaron Rodgers and Favre. I dont think that Brady is a product of the system, but I dont think you can deny that the dropoff has not been anywhere near as bad as people thought it would be. Usually that is the sign where the system is often greater than the player.

I said this in another thread. If the Pats system is so great why don't other teams run it?

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You look for teams where there is no drop in performance between Qbs. There is a significant difference between Romo and Brad Johnson. Clemens/Chad and Favre. Roethlisberger and Charlie Batch.

A team like Tampa sees very little difference between a Brian Griese or a Jeff Garcia. Houston with Matt Schaub and Sage Rosenfels. I think the Packers thought there would be no drop between Aaron Rodgers and Favre. I dont think that Brady is a product of the system, but I dont think you can deny that the dropoff has not been anywhere near as bad as people thought it would be. Usually that is the sign where the system is often greater than the player.

So if we stick any QB in the Patriots system and give him time to learn it he will make himself a millionaire?

Sorry Jason, I respect your opinion but you and I know this is bullcrap.

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But Brady was a "system QB" long before Moss and Welker came along.

Perhaps someone could explain this system QB thing to me :rolleyes: ????????????

I see it throw around a lot when talking about Patriots QB'S but no other NFL QB's.

I know I will not get an answer to this because the whole "system QB" is an attempt to take something away from the Patriots.

System QB = bu!! sh!t

Brady's an all time great..

Cassell benefits from having GOAT or near GOAT at WR

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So if we stick any QB in the Patriots system and give him time to learn it he will make himself a millionaire?

Sorry Jason, I respect your opinion but you and I know this is bullcrap.

You can not stick anyone in there and expect them to be a hit. The guy has to have some competence. If you put Joey Harrington in there he would still suck. Maybe he wouldn't suck as bad as he did in Detroit, Miami, and Atlanta but he would suck nonetheless.

This is just my opinion on Cassel, but I think he benefits from being in the NFL on the same team for a few years, having limited expectations thrust upon him, and never having played before. There are plenty of Qbs that come in in that time frame and have great success before fizzlining out. Chad. Bulger. Garrard. Anderson. Usually they all crap out the following year when teams have all kinds of footage on them and an entire offseason to gameplan.

If for some reason he had to start next year for New England due to Brady coming along slowly I think he would come way back down. The NE players and system would at least make him look average or a bit below. If he went to another team like San Francisco he would be atrocious.

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+1

No Moss and Casell would look horrible.

And yes, Kellen Clemens would look good with a motivated Moss..

Yep, because for 59 minutes and 52 seconds, Randy Moss was dominant against the Jets. Yet, Cassel got 392 yds without him

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Yep, because for 59 minutes and 52 seconds, Randy Moss was dominant against the Jets. Yet, Cassel got 392 yds without him

Belichick is on record saying that Moss was the Patriots MVP in that game.

Went hard every play with over the top coverage (double teamed)

As a result Cassell, Welker, Gaffney and others had a great day.

True.

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Yep, because for 59 minutes and 52 seconds, Randy Moss was dominant against the Jets. Yet, Cassel got 392 yds without him

You little turd..

If Mangini wasn't so worried about Moss there wouldn't have been so much open underneath and hours for Cassell to find it..

Get a clue..

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You little turd..

If Mangini wasn't so worried about Moss there wouldn't have been so much open underneath and hours for Cassell to find it..

Get a clue..

Well it helps that Mangini is a fool and stopped playing when we had a lead. That wasn't exactly fear of Moss alone, that was total fear of the Patriots and just very bad coaching strategy.

We do that a lot. We even did it last week against the Titans. For some reason, dominating a team and holding the ball 3 times longer than them is only a good idea for 3 quarters, it becomes a dumb idea and you're much smarter playing the percentages when you just let them score at will on you and stay on offense until Jenkins gets injury scares. We just started even earlier against the patriots.

Our CS is simultaneously genius and retarded at the same time. For 28 minutes the Patriots could do absolutely nothing on offense, and had no answers on defense. Our players didn't suddenly just forget how to execute, our CS pulled the rug out from under them.

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You look for teams where there is no drop in performance between Qbs. There is a significant difference between Romo and Brad Johnson. Clemens/Chad and Favre. Roethlisberger and Charlie Batch.

A team like Tampa sees very little difference between a Brian Griese or a Jeff Garcia. Houston with Matt Schaub and Sage Rosenfels. I think the Packers thought there would be no drop between Aaron Rodgers and Favre. I dont think that Brady is a product of the system, but I dont think you can deny that the dropoff has not been anywhere near as bad as people thought it would be. Usually that is the sign where the system is often greater than the player.

The problem is you are all acting like there is no drop in performance. They've lost 4 games. Last season they lost none. People aren't giving the Pats credit for being that good. If some other teams had a four game drop off you'd be calling for the kid's head. To put it in perspective, this big drop for the Packers has resulted in five additional losses compared to last seaon. That's one game more than the Pats drop and the '07 Pack did not finish the season so strong.

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You can not stick anyone in there and expect them to be a hit. The guy has to have some competence. If you put Joey Harrington in there he would still suck. Maybe he wouldn't suck as bad as he did in Detroit, Miami, and Atlanta but he would suck nonetheless.

This is just my opinion on Cassel, but I think he benefits from being in the NFL on the same team for a few years, having limited expectations thrust upon him, and never having played before. There are plenty of Qbs that come in in that time frame and have great success before fizzlining out. Chad. Bulger. Garrard. Anderson. Usually they all crap out the following year when teams have all kinds of footage on them and an entire offseason to gameplan.

If for some reason he had to start next year for New England due to Brady coming along slowly I think he would come way back down. The NE players and system would at least make him look average or a bit below. If he went to another team like San Francisco he would be atrocious.

That is the point. You make many valid points.

I am not saying Cassel is the second coming of Brady. Far from it. However, there must have been a reason the Patriots kept Cassel. The Patriots are a smart and well run team. there is no denying it.

They had legitimate Superbowl aspirations entering the season. Even with Brady having a long consecutive start streak, there was always a chance he could miss time. Old vet QBs came and went, but Cassel stayed.

The Patriots saw something in a QB that had no experience during USC Pro Day several years ago. Even after his forgettable preseason this past August, they kept him. Belichick and Company know more then us and kept him because they knew he was a good QB.

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Wow, just wow!!!! Brady isn't that good of a QB. Period. I will never be convinced of that. One reason. They CHEATED. All of the superbowls, all of the dominate wins, everything. They cheated. Now that I got that off my chest, Cassell is playing very well. And it's a combination of things as to why you don't see much of a drop off. Regardless of the cheating, the Pats have great players. I don't know why their coach felt the need to cheat, he probably could have won many of those games without the cheating. The pats d line is fantastic. The o line is very good. And Moss when he wants to be is the 1st or 2nd best receiver in the league. Welker is a Wayne clone. The man is nothing but pure heart and class. Cassell should be resigned and trade Brady while you have a chance. If they do trade Brady, and he goes to another team and flops then everyone will know for sure if it's the system or Brady is that great. If he does well, I will eat my words. Like I've always done on these boards when I've been wrong.

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Wow, just wow!!!! Brady isn't that good of a QB. Period. I will never be convinced of that. One reason. They CHEATED. All of the superbowls, all of the dominate wins, everything. They cheated. Now that I got that off my chest, Cassell is playing very well. And it's a combination of things as to why you don't see much of a drop off. Regardless of the cheating, the Pats have great players. I don't know why their coach felt the need to cheat, he probably could have won many of those games without the cheating. The pats d line is fantastic. The o line is very good. And Moss when he wants to be is the 1st or 2nd best receiver in the league. Welker is a Wayne clone. The man is nothing but pure heart and class. Cassell should be resigned and trade Brady while you have a chance. If they do trade Brady, and he goes to another team and flops then everyone will know for sure if it's the system or Brady is that great. If he does well, I will eat my words. Like I've always done on these boards when I've been wrong.

Ok.

It is funny. It is a common and accepted practice to steal signals. Again, it is not what the Patriots did, but how they did it. ANyways......

Belichick was largely categorized as a better DC then Coach before Brady.

David Givens. Deon Branch. David Patten. Daniel Graham. All saw richer paydays after catching passes from Tom. None have had an impact since leaving.

Moss was obtained for a 4th rounder. If traded now, what would a team be willing to trade.

While it is obvious this is not all because of Brady, there is a common theme to the Patriots success.

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Well it helps that Mangini is a fool and stopped playing when we had a lead. That wasn't exactly fear of Moss alone, that was total fear of the Patriots and just very bad coaching strategy.

We do that a lot. We even did it last week against the Titans. For some reason, dominating a team and holding the ball 3 times longer than them is only a good idea for 3 quarters, it becomes a dumb idea and you're much smarter playing the percentages when you just let them score at will on you and stay on offense until Jenkins gets injury scares. We just started even earlier against the patriots.

Our CS is simultaneously genius and retarded at the same time. For 28 minutes the Patriots could do absolutely nothing on offense, and had no answers on defense. Our players didn't suddenly just forget how to execute, our CS pulled the rug out from under them.

well put !

It's crazy aint it ?

it's a classic example of taking your foot of the accelerator and trying to hold on....

drives me nuts

they've done such a great job scoring on opening drives, and then they turtle up at the end

when they finally decide to pressure the QB at the end of games, this team will be scary

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The problem is you are all acting like there is no drop in performance. They've lost 4 games. Last season they lost none. People aren't giving the Pats credit for being that good. If some other teams had a four game drop off you'd be calling for the kid's head. To put it in perspective, this big drop for the Packers has resulted in five additional losses compared to last seaon. That's one game more than the Pats drop and the '07 Pack did not finish the season so strong.

There was going to be a drop in performance anyway. The Patriots were not going 16-0 again. I think everyone knew that going in. 14-2, 13-3. They still might get close to that. The staff tried to win differently with Cassel earlier in the year. They were trying to follow the blueprint, IMO, from the 2001 success story. It also took Randy Moss some time to accept a new role in the offense as both a deep decoy and someone going much shorter on the field. Once that happens its tough to cover those guys no matter what.

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Ok.

It is funny. It is a common and accepted practice to steal signals. Again, it is not what the Patriots did, but how they did it. ANyways......

Belichick was largely categorized as a better DC then Coach before Brady.

David Givens. Deon Branch. David Patten. Daniel Graham. All saw richer paydays after catching passes from Tom. None have had an impact since leaving.

Moss was obtained for a 4th rounder. If traded now, what would a team be willing to trade.

While it is obvious this is not all because of Brady, there is a common theme to the Patriots success.

Those guys should be sending Brady 90% of their bonuses & weekly paychecks for life.

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There was going to be a drop in performance anyway. The Patriots were not going 16-0 again. I think everyone knew that going in. 14-2, 13-3. They still might get close to that. The staff tried to win differently with Cassel earlier in the year. They were trying to follow the blueprint, IMO, from the 2001 success story. It also took Randy Moss some time to accept a new role in the offense as both a deep decoy and someone going much shorter on the field. Once that happens its tough to cover those guys no matter what.

So, your argument is that Brady is a "system QB" but they had to change the system when he got hurt?

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