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Why is our defense so soft?


Matt39

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SOft in a sense, you watch teams like the Steelers, Ravens....and you know they are out there looking for blood.

We have guys walking around looking like their picking daisies. LIke damn, were 8-3 and have a huge game in crappy conditions and you'd figure our defense would be licking their chops.

Nope. Same soft coverage with no pass rush at all. DOes this stem from Mangini? Sutton?

Where is the fire?

You see Welker get laid out? We need guys that can intimidate.

Just a rant. Sorry. I've been calling our our defense all season, people didnt want to hear it. But last game was downright disgusting to watch.

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the jets can't cover the pass because they are built to stop the run. they have 3 converted DE's playing LB and when they go to the nickel and dime they bring in 2 of the league's worst players in barret and poteat.

basically, anyone that spreads the field and throws the ball will have success. i think the philosophy is bend don't break and sutton/mangini are so concerned with the big play that they are afraid to sell out on the blitz.

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the jets can't cover the pass because they are built to stop the run. they have 3 converted DE's playing LB and when they go to the nickel and dime they bring in 2 of the league's worst players in barret and poteat.

basically, anyone that spreads the field and throws the ball will have success. i think the philosophy is bend don't break and sutton/mangini are so concerned with the big play that they are afraid to sell out on the blitz.

Hell, I'd think I'd rather give up the quick score like the throw to Royal, rather the slow death of a QB picking us apart at ease.

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What happened to Pace who had so much pass rush at the start of the year?

It is hard to rush the passer when you are told to play in pass coverage. Joey Porter might do it, but most players tend to follow their coach's directions.

Sutton has to go after this year, regardless of how far the Jets go.

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As to the OP:

-The absence of Harris means that our OLBs have to cover more TEs, meaning they can't rush

-Sutton is a moron who has no idea when or how to blitz (Mangini chews him out on the sidelines practically every week--and was ready to drop him the second Rob Ryan became available)

-We all love Pace, and Thomas had a nice start to the season, but we're not exactly talking about Demarcus Ware and Shawne Merriman here. Hopefully Gholston gets himself together, because a true pass-rushing demon (not just a linebacker who can rush the passer, which is what we have now) would absolutely change the face of this defense--honestly, the emergence of Gholston could have the same effect on our pass defense that Jenkins did on our run defense IMO.

It's very annoying--did anyone catch the MNF pregame show on ESPN last night? Trent Dilfer showed how the Jets were vulnerable to big plays when they rushed 3 and dropped 8 (even if one of the big plays he showed actually came against a well-schemed defense that just couldn't tackle). It's maddening.

I'm encouraged by the return of Harris--we were getting more pressure earlier in the season. But the lack of blitzing, especially on 3rd and long, is going to give me a stroke. Part of me thinks this is the defense Mangini wants, since it hasn't been changed--but in that case, why is he always chewing out Sutton? And why was he on the phone with Rob Ryan the second it looked like he was available? I don't get it. I wish I knew what Mangini wanted, because it would be a good barometer of him as an HC. If he's happy with this soft zone crap, we're screwed. If he's unhappy, but struggling to make changes due to Harris's absence (or anything else for that matter), maybe things will improve.

Whatever, Sutton sucks and has to go after this season. And keep in mind, Ryan's contract expires at the end of this year...

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I disagree that our defense is generally "soft."

We are built to stop the run, and we have been amongst the league's best in that category. We are generally very strong at the point of attack and hold the line of scrimmage very well. Our LB's are slow, but make up for it in size and strength. We have also put up very solid turnover numbers.

We have struggled most in getting consistent pressure on the opposing QB and covering the underneath routes especially to opposing TE's. While these are very frustrating things to witness and have been a big factor in our ineffectiveness on defense, I wouldn't characterize this defense as soft.

We are definitely weak in key areas, but generally soft is not a word I would use when you take into account all of the positives.

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Cause our HC is a giant pudge muffin...

Wait, are you finally agreeing with me that scheme is the biggest culprit?

I'd rather go down blitzing and attacking with Thomas and Pace, rather than hoping that Thomas, Pace and Barret can cover for the obligatory 8 yard reception.

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It is hard to rush the passer when you are told to play in pass coverage. Joey Porter might do it, but most players tend to follow their coach's directions.

Sutton has to go after this year, regardless of how far the Jets go.

Our linebackers are not good in coverage our defense was playing well when we had Pace & Thomas rush the passer. We cannot cover a TE we should at least blitz our LB's so maybe we can get a QB to rush these throws once in a while. Sutton defense has been unimaginative and makes little in game and half time adjustments and this is killing us.

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dbatesman, I can't see how this is anyone but mangini's fault personally. This is scheme at the most basic level - attack vs. bend but don't break .. All Mangini would have to do is demand a change in strategy and it would have to be done. He doesn't have the balls like a Johnson and LeBeau imo and would prefer a slow death to a quick strike.

Remember also that his hero made his bones as a bend but don't break guy who could confuse QB's into making a mistake. That's what it's all about, it's meek, it's CPF. Maximize the plays the opposition has to run and eventually an INT, fumble or big penalty will happen to stall the drive, all while preventing a quick score..

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Wait, are you finally agreeing with me that scheme is the biggest culprit?

I'd rather go down blitzing and attacking with Thomas and Pace, rather than hoping that Thomas, Pace and Barret can cover for the obligatory 8 yard reception.

We never disagreed???

Our LB's, and anyone in the secondary whose last name doesn't start with R suck at coverage though. Dude, I hated CPF so obviously I'd rather go down swinging..

I'd be comfortable leaving Revis on an island personally, btw, anecdotally, all to often it seems like Rhodes is on Revis's side of the field, which makes no sense..

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dbatesman, I can't see how this is anyone but mangini's fault personally. This is scheme at the most basic level - attack vs. bend but don't break .. All Mangini would have to do is demand a change in strategy and it would have to be done. He doesn't have the balls like a Johnson and LeBeau imo and would prefer a slow death to a quick strike.

Remember also that his hero made his bones as a bend but don't break guy who could confuse QB's into making a mistake. That's what it's all about, it's meek, it's CPF. Maximize the plays the opposition has to run and eventually an INT, fumble or big penalty will happen to stall the drive, all while preventing a quick score..

I agree that scheme is the biggest culprit, but it's not totally responsible as I have seen many secondary and LB blitzes in recent games that have come up completely empty. It seems like when the opposing team spreads us out, it doesn't matter whether we are aggressive or passive, we fail either way.

What happened to our "no formation" defense where everyone is not set and moving around before the snap? It's a good tool to keep the offense off balance and disguise our schemes.

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I agree that scheme is the biggest culprit, but it's not totally responsible as I have seen many secondary and LB blitzes in recent games that have come up completely empty. It seems like when the opposing team spreads us out, it doesn't matter whether we are aggressive or passive, we fail either way.

What happened to our "no formation" defense where everyone is not set and moving around before the snap? It's a good tool to keep the offense off balance and disguise our schemes.

I just mentioned that in another thread, I'd like to see that dusted off again..

To your broader point, yes I agree, but notice when you watch the Steelers or Eagles, there's a lot of people around the line of scrimmage almost every play, they don't always bltiz, but they are always there pressuring an offense. The Jets seem to have everybody back further and when they do blitz it seems to come from so far away. Also we rarely send more then 5, I'd like to see some 7 man rushes as well..

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I just mentioned that in another thread, I'd like to see that dusted off again..

To your broader point, yes I agree, but notice when you watch the Steelers or Eagles, there's a lot of people around the line of scrimmage almost every play, they don't always bltiz, but they are always there pressuring an offense. The Jets seem to have everybody back further and when they do blitz it seems to come from so far away. Also we rarely send more then 5, I'd like to see some 7 man rushes as well..

They expect the D-line to slow everything down and seems like they'd rather have our LB's react to the play rather then make the play happen. The Steelers force the play onto the offense. That makes linemen uncomfortable, creates offside penalties and mental lapses which eventually leads to pressure. I think I've said it before; Mangini wants his players to be UBER-versatile. He doesn't want a "pure pass rusher" which is why I think you don't see lots of pressure generated. If you crowd the line it's that much less time that linemen have to pick up a blitz, if they're coming from 5 yards out they can read it.

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This just pisssed me off all day. They have a stud in the middle in Jenkins who was drawing double and triple teams all day, yoiu would think that would allow our blitz packages to come free from the ends. But instead we drop back into pass protection, no pressure on the QB and longer cover times on the DBs and we make Sh*t QBs look like HOFers.

The best way to make our DBs better is to rush the passer, did Sutton learn nothing form last years SB? The Giants rushed Brady and he made mistakes. When we finally got pressure on Cutler on that 3rd and 5 in Q4 he put it in the dirt.

Sutton has gotten away with the bend don't break stuff when we have a lead but we were down due to 2 turnovers and we needed to make somthing happen.

Until they learn this lesson we are going to see every team use the spread offense, can you imagine what Penny will do to us with no pressuer on him?

Someone go slap Sutton and Mangini, Please!

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They had layoffs round here so my work load ramped up. I've got it under control now and can resume posting duties. :headbang:

Better them than you, good to see you back.

I don't think we're soft per se but we're just not aggresive enough, and don't dictate enough. Same problem I have with Schotty playcalling, that he dosen't stay with what works and gets too cute. We'll drop a running play for a loss, make another big play on snd down, and rush three on 3rd and 11. Over and over again. I realize that the coaches have forgotten more football than I'll ever know but it makes no sense to me at all and I doubt it ever will. Same goes for the ill-advised reverse call last week, which I'd put in the same category as Lamont's pass in '04 and Leon's pass on '97.

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Better them than you, good to see you back.

I don't think we're soft per se but we're just not aggresive enough, and don't dictate enough. Same problem I have with Schotty playcalling, that he dosen't stay with what works and gets too cute. We'll drop a running play for a loss, make another big play on snd down, and rush three on 3rd and 11. Over and over again. I realize that the coaches have forgotten more football than I'll ever know but it makes no sense to me at all and I doubt it ever will. Same goes for the ill-advised reverse call last week, which I'd put in the same category as Lamont's pass in '04 and Leon's pass on '97.

I guess you're right in the sense we get a little too "cute" with our plays but frankly... do you think when other teams here "Jets defense" they go "oh crap"? I don't think so. That's mainly because we're not an aggressive defense. If we're comparing our D to any other D's in the league honestly I think we're more Colts then Steelers. We have a "bend don't break" mentality to our play calling rather then "We're gonna punch you in the nose as hard as we can and when you go down bloodied we're gonna step on your head." And as a fan that's the type of D I think we SHOULD have with our personnel. JMO

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Why not change things up with a 4-3 "D" with Pouha and Jenkins both at Tackle?

If Jenkins isn't doubled, he would get tremendous push up the middle...

Have the Jets used this type of defense? I haven't seen it..

He'd sooner trade away people who don't fit into a 3-4. See:

Vilma, Jon

Robertson, Dewayne

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It seems like the defense has bought into the hype of this being an "elite" defense. When in reality...we've only had two guys all season that have played at an elite level- Jenkins and Revis.

Im still waiting for Kerry Rhodes to make a play this season. Hopefully his movie career is going well, though.

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