How do you honestly feel about the 3-4 defense?

[Matt39]

Maybe it's just me...but after watching this team be absolutely BRUTAL again on the defensive side of the ball, I'm obviously questioning the coaching and the scheme.

There is a reason most teams in the league dont run the 3-4. I honestly believe you really cant have any weak links to run a truly effective 3-4 defense. Where as in the 4-3, things can can covered up a bit more.

Obviously, the Jets have many issues and weak links-Couple in the fact the Jets coaching staff has no clue how to adjust for sht...we have this disaster.

270lb linebackers chasing around RB's and WR's, it's embarrassing. Either attack at will or dont play the 3-4...its not a defense thats designed to be passive.

Maybe I'm off, but something sure as hell aint right here.

[serphnx]

Maybe it's just me...but after watching this team be absolutely BRUTAL again on the defensive side of the ball, I'm obviously questioning the coaching and the scheme.

There is a reason most teams in the league dont run the 3-4. I honestly believe you really cant have any weak links to run a truly effective 3-4 defense. Where as in the 4-3, things can can covered up a bit more.

Obviously, the Jets have many issues and weak links-Couple in the fact the Jets coaching staff has no clue how to adjust for sht...we have this disaster.

270lb linebackers chasing around RB's and WR's, it's embarrassing. Either attack at will or dont play the 3-4...its not a defense thats designed to be passive.

Maybe I'm off, but something sure as hell aint right here.

No it's just us. Watch the Steelers, Fins, Ravens or Cowboys on defense instead. There are a few more NFL teams that run it too, like the Chargers, but they're on down years. The Browns use the 3-4 too and are actually solid, it's just they have no offense. The Pats are way too old right now, but let's not forget this team dominated on defense for the better part of the last decade.

It's not the scheme or the personnel. We've got both in place. It's the damn coaches. Btw, the Cardinals run it too, or they did last year I think (I don't watch them play much) and we have Pace from them.

[Matt39]

No it's just us. Watch the Steelers, Fins, Ravens or Cowboys on defense instead. There are a few more NFL teams that run it too, like the Chargers, but they're on down years. The Browns use the 3-4 too and are actually solid, it's just they have no offense. The Pats are way too old right now, but let's not forget this team dominated on defense for the better part of the last decade.

It's not the scheme or the personnel. We've got both in place. It's the damn coaches. Btw, the Cardinals run it too, or they did last year I think (I don't watch them play much) and we have Pace from them.

I think the Ravens run the 4-3?

[serphnx]

I think the Ravens run the 4-3?

Do they? I'm not sure on the Steelers either, I didn't really pay attention yesterday. Either way, there are plenty of examples of the 3-4 working. The past few years most playoff teams have run the 3-4. We just suck at it. Because our coaches are idiots.

[Ghost]

Our defense is perfect, the players and the 3-4 is good IMHO.

The problem is we're not blitzing, point blank. We made Shaun Hill look like Dan Marino. We need to ****ing blitz, grow some ****ing balls and get to the QB.

[Matt39]

Do they? I'm not sure on the Steelers either, I didn't really pay attention yesterday. Either way, there are plenty of examples of the 3-4 working. The past few years most playoff teams have run the 3-4. We just suck at it. Because our coaches are idiots.

I definitely dont deny that the 3-4 can be an effective defense. I just dont understand the coaches philosophy here. Why run the 3-4 if you're going to be passive?

It doesnt help that we have zero natural pass rushers on this team...but one would think Mangini would be able to figure out how to apply some pressure consistently?

These constant 8 man backfields are maddening.

[Matt39]

Also doesnt help that the "sack specialist" we drafted is an all out stiff.

[Jetkid94]

our 3-4 works when were not rushing 3 ****ing guys.

[CTM]

I'd prefer the attacking 1 gap 3-4 that Wade phillips runs...

[NIGHT STALKER]

3-4, 4-3, etc...I would prefer anything to generate pressure on the QB...the way we rush the QB, you would think we are in some kind of delay mode.

[JohnnyHector]

I'd prefer the attacking 1 gap 3-4 that Wade phillips runs...

I was commenting to a Cowboys fan at work today that when Wade gets canned at the end of the year, I wouldn't mind Mangini's replacement bringing him onboard to run the defense.

[serphnx]

I definitely dont deny that the 3-4 can be an effective defense. I just dont understand the coaches philosophy here. Why run the 3-4 if you're going to be passive?

It doesnt help that we have zero natural pass rushers on this team...but one would think Mangini would be able to figure out how to apply some pressure consistently?

These constant 8 man backfields are maddening.

That's not a scheme problem, that's a coaching philosophy problem. Do you seriously think that this problem would disappear if they used the 4-3? You need to generate pressure to be effective in the 4-3 as well, and that usually means effective blitzing. There isn't too much difference between blocking 3 and blocking 4. Especially when it's the line and not on a blitz.

[Kerry Rhodes]

I'd prefer the attacking 1 gap 3-4 that Wade phillips runs...

+1

If we had Wade Phillips, or a Steeler DC, we would have a top 5 defense. Not only would we have more sacks, but we would apply consistant pressure throughout the game. I mean, look at our front 7--We should be able to get a ton of pressure.

I love the 3-4, I hate this version of it. We run a robot 3-4.

[ECURB]

I like it.

I hate Sutton.

Nice sig Serphnx!

[gsnts725]

Anyone is BETTER than Sutton. Please get this bum outta here... and I thought Cotrell was pretty bad >_<

[124]

I love it when I see the Pittsburgh Steelers, Dallas Cowboys, Baltimore Ravens and New England Patriots (until this season) execute it. They have real coaches who know what the F they're doing and arn't trying to outsmart everyone. They don't get too cute, they play tough hard nosed Football and discipline their players to the extreme. If you're not disciplined in the 34 D, you will have zero success.

[ECURB]

Anyone is BETTER than Sutton. Please get this bum outta here... and I thought Cotrell was pretty bad >_<

Time for you to adapt the three stooges sig...

I would be willing to give this staff another year... without Sutton... lol

[gsnts725]

Time for you to adapt the three stooges sig...

I would be willing to give this staff another year... without Sutton... lol

i will.... if u dont mind =P

[jetscott]

the problem with it is if your big man in the middle goes down, it's over. We lose jenkins, teams will run all over us worse than now. 1 man makes or breaks you.

[MagicBizkit87]

I actually like the 3-4, it's the one thing Mangini did to the Jets that I like.

[Ghost]

Anyone is BETTER than Sutton. Please get this bum outta here... and I thought Cotrell was pretty bad >_<

I wish we still had him.

[#27TheDominator]

I don't really like the 3-4 and I don't like this 2-gap crap. However, they are running it and it is and has been successful in the league. It is, by design a little more passive/read and react than what I prefer. OTOH, If you think the problem is that they are not blitzing you are either delusional or didn't watch the game. Like Barton, you can argue the blitz package they use, but you can't say they aren't blitzing. They were sending 4 and 5 on almost every down.

[Sperm Edwards]

I wish we still had him.

He just got fired a month ago. And you do not wish we still had him.

[CoachTsurfing]

If we changed now, after Mangini took soooo long to get the "right" players to fit his system, I would be in utter shock. We gave away 2 or 3 good players that fit the 4-3. I don't think we will switch schemes. Doesn't make sense. Switching coaches does, and no I am not one of the many fans that had my lips up to Mangini's butt after we beat the titans.

[Matt39]

If we changed now, after Mangini took soooo long to get the "right" players to fit his system, I would be in utter shock. We gave away 2 or 3 good players that fit the 4-3. I don't think we will switch schemes. Doesn't make sense. Switching coaches does, and no I am not one of the many fans that had my lips up to Mangini's butt after we beat the titans.

The defense wasnt all that great vs the Titans either. We got extremely lucky with the amount of dropped passes and I called out our pass rush for being awful. No one wanted to hear it though.

The defense has had the same problems all season.

[lancemehl]

Maybe it's just me...but after watching this team be absolutely BRUTAL again on the defensive side of the ball, I'm obviously questioning the coaching and the scheme.

There is a reason most teams in the league dont run the 3-4. I honestly believe you really cant have any weak links to run a truly effective 3-4 defense. Where as in the 4-3, things can can covered up a bit more.

Obviously, the Jets have many issues and weak links-Couple in the fact the Jets coaching staff has no clue how to adjust for sht...we have this disaster.

270lb linebackers chasing around RB's and WR's, it's embarrassing. Either attack at will or dont play the 3-4...its not a defense thats designed to be passive.

Maybe I'm off, but something sure as hell aint right here.

I posted the exact same thing a thousand times and mostly people say it's a better defense, why i have no idea, but I agree with you, why do only a handful of teams run it?? Your whole defense is based on ONE MAN, usually a giant NT and when he's gone, the defense is gone, or a monster passrushing OLB like LT or derrick Thomas

if u don't have a freak on the field the defense is pitiful:

no pass rush, unbelievable running holes and if your ILB'ers can't cover TE's like, let's say, David Bowens covering Kellen Winslow,who, by the way gets no bump at the line because there are no true ends, you're dead. It's a garbage defense all the way around.

We made the excuse of the wrong personnel, we shipped off great players to fit this bum's d and what do we have after three years, a crap defense.

If you see Pouha on the field, be ASSURED they are gaining big yards EVERY TIME!!

[Matt39]

I posted the exact same thing a thousand times and mostly people say it's a better defense, why i have no idea, but I agree with you, why do only a handful of teams run it?? Your whole defense is based on ONE MAN, usually a giant NT and when he's gone, the defense is gone, or a monster passrushing OLB like LT or derrick Thomas

if u don't have a freak on the field the defense is pitiful:

no pass rush, unbelievable running holes and if your ILB'ers can't cover TE's like, let's say, David Bowens covering Kellen Winslow,who, by the way gets no bump at the line because there are no true ends, you're dead. It's a garbage defense all the way around.

We made the excuse of the wrong personnel, we shipped off great players to fit this bum's d and what do we have after three years, a crap defense.

If you see Pouha on the field, be ASSURED they are gaining big yards EVERY TIME!!

Nice post. When the 3-4 is ran correctly, it's probably the better defense. The Jets dont have a Demarcus Ware or a Derrick Thomas though. 90 year old David Bowens chasing around Frank Gore? Do the coaches not see this mismatch?

I still dont think we have the horses to run the 3-4, and we obviously don't have the coaching.

[#27TheDominator]

So you bunch of Buddy Ryans think that Bryan Thomas, Calvin Pace and Shaun Ellis are going to suddenly become the sack exchange if we go back to the 4-3?

[Matt39]

So you bunch of Buddy Ryans think that Bryan Thomas, Calvin Pace and Shaun Ellis are going to suddenly become the sack exchange if we go back to the 4-3?

No, smart guy.

I'm not calling for us to go back to the 4-3, that's obviously a pipe dream. But you cant deny the fact its easier to hide weaknesses when you're in the 4-3 rather than the 3-4.

We dont have the horses at LB to play an effective 3-4 defense. We don't have anyone who knows how to rush the passer from the outside. And when they drop into coverage, they're probably even worse. It's a complete disaster. Too slow to cover the middle of the field and no one with a speck of ability to get to the QB. I cant take Barton every play running into guards and being stuffed. Calvin Pace has been invisible.

Jenkins was a pretty dominant player in the 4-3, too. It's not a crazy idea.

[lancemehl]

So you bunch of Buddy Ryans think that Bryan Thomas, Calvin Pace and Shaun Ellis are going to suddenly become the sack exchange if we go back to the 4-3?

I think the post was, how do you feel about the 3-4? Well, whatta you think? Is Shaun Hill really that good?

[lancemehl]

Jenkins was a pretty dominant player in the 4-3, too. It's not a crazy idea.

Actually, he made the probowl, Shaun Ellis wasn't bad either. Just watch the 3-4 in action.Pop in that San Fran tape and watch every play. Watch a kid with 4 games under his belt and a back up running back on a 4-8 team rip it to f$#king shreds, f#$k the message board go watch this brilliant scheme in action!.

[Bugg]

Once again, LIKE EVERY OTHER FREAKING SEASON, the NY Jets are trying to make me half insane.

Crazy idea-if you're gonna rush only 3 guys, have SOME of those 8 DBs and LBs COVER TEs and RBs. The way TEs and backs are WIDE FREAKING OPEN with NO JET DEFENDER NEAR THEM is almost physically impossible.There can only be 5 receivers to account for; how the Jets, week after week, fail account for 2 of them? What the PHVCK are the DBs and LBs DOING? These guys aren't just open, they seem to running in open fields. Pass play after pass play, there's no rush, but even worse, if the idea is to cover receivers it's simply not being done AT ALL. If you're gonna let people run free and clear, you might as well blitz a whole bunch and at least have some catastrophic hits on their QB.

This defense right now SUCKS. Spare Jenkins, there isn't ANYONE on this defense doing his job. Spare the Titans game, since the 2nd half of the Pats game this could be as bad as we've ever seen any Jets defense play.

[JohnnyHector]

No, smart guy.

I'm not calling for us to go back to the 4-3, that's obviously a pipe dream. But you cant deny the fact its easier to hide weaknesses when you're in the 4-3 rather than the 3-4.

We dont have the horses at LB to play an effective 3-4 defense. We don't have anyone who knows how to rush the passer from the outside. And when they drop into coverage, they're probably even worse. It's a complete disaster. Too slow to cover the middle of the field and no one with a speck of ability to get to the QB. I cant take Barton every play running into guards and being stuffed. Calvin Pace has been invisible.

Jenkins was a pretty dominant player in the 4-3, too. It's not a crazy idea.

Pace, Bryan Thomas, and Kenyon Coleman would all be worthless if the Jets switched exclusively to a 4-3 base. I think Gholston might be the only player on the roster (aside from whomever would start at the other tackle spot) who might benefit from a switch, in the short-term at least...

[Matt39]

Pace, Bryan Thomas, and Kenyon Coleman would all be worthless if the Jets switched exclusively to a 4-3 base. I think Gholston might be the only player on the roster (aside from whomever would start at the other tackle spot) who might benefit from a switch, in the short-term at least...

Bryan Thomas and Kenyon Coleman are worthless either way, so its moot.

Gholston isnt an NFL player.

[NorthCoastJetsFan]

I don't think it's the 3-4 in and of itself. I also don't think it's the players, to a degree.

Watch the way the Steelers, Cowboys and Ravens play it. What's the difference? They are aggressive with it 95% of the time. They ALWAYS send at least 4, while we only rush 3 most of the time. To me, it looks like those teams play instinctively, while our players seem to be always thinking instead of trusting their athletic ability.

Look, I'm no Bob Sutton fan. But anyone who thinks is he the sole problem here is mistaken. He is playing it the way Mangini wants him to. Conservative. Vanilla. Just the way the offense plays too.

Until someone on this team decides to rip the opponents heart out, we will continue to be mediocre at best.

I won't even get started here on the lack of offensive playmakers. I'll save that for another thread.