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Are Mangini and Herm equally crappy?


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I asked this I think after the loss to Oakland, and I am just wondering if these two really are equally idiots.

I always defend Mangini that he's no way worse then Herm Edwards, but now I don't even know anymore.

Why do you give a s*** ? Didn't you declare last night that you were no longer a fan ?

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No.

Herm wants to rebuild his team with youth for the future, so he trades away a 26 year old 3 time pro bowl Defensive End for a couple of draft picks. This gives him a built in excuse for losing so he doesn't have to spend time doing any type of gameplanning or coaching.

Mangini decides he wants to win now, brings in a HOF QB and LG, a pro bowl NT, a great pass-catching TE, a good RT, and some good depth at LB. The defense yesterday sucked, and you can put that on Mangini if you want. But if the game had mattered in the end, we would have had all 3 timeouts, a good run-stuffing defense, and a HOF QB behind center. We could never say that about a Herm Edwards coached team. Ever.

Its really not even close.

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This season absolutely proves Mangini is worse then Herm. Herm would not be choking like Mangini is late in the year with Brett Favre as the quarterback. Bottom line, Mangini needs to be fired regardless of how this season ends up. Division winners, or not.

With Herm we NEVER go on that 6 game streak though. We are probably 7-6 or 6-7 with Herm at the helm, and we'd need to win out to even have a shot at a Wild Card. Now if we win out we win the AFCE and play a home game in the first round of the playoffs.

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No.

Herm wants to rebuild his team with youth for the future, so he trades away a 26 year old 3 time pro bowl Defensive End for a couple of draft picks. This gives him a built in excuse for losing so he doesn't have to spend time doing any type of gameplanning or coaching.

Mangini decides he wants to win now, brings in a HOF QB and LG, a pro bowl NT, a great pass-catching TE, a good RT, and some good depth at LB. The defense yesterday sucked, and you can put that on Mangini if you want. But if the game had mattered in the end, we would have had all 3 timeouts, a good run-stuffing defense, and a HOF QB behind center. We could never say that about a Herm Edwards coached team. Ever.

Its really not even close.

Yeah, Mangini has all those things here in New York, but he never wins, Herman did not, and he still won about 10 games every other year. Now I am not defending Herm, but i seriously am starting to believe Herm is way better then this clown we have now.

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Yeah, Mangini has all those things here in New York, but he never wins, Herman did not, and he still won about 10 games every other year. Now I am not defending Herm, but i seriously am starting to believe Herm is way better then this clown we have now.

Mangini won 10 games his first season, and there's a good chance he wins another 10 or 11 this year. With Herm we never really beat a good team. We feasted on easy schedules and never really beat a playoff caliber team, even in our good years with him. This year we've beaten a 10-0 team in the Titans, and two division rivals who are very much in the playoff hunt in Miami and New England. Yes, we have played down to the competition a lot this year in losses to Oakland, San Diego, and San Francisco, but guess what? Thats right. Once we win these next 3 games against PLAYOFF CALIBER OPPONENTS, we will be set to go in the playoffs. Oh, and guess what? Once we're in the playoffs, we won't have to worry about playing down to the competition.

I still believe.

LETS GO JETS!!!

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This season absolutely proves Mangini is worse then Herm. Herm would not be choking like Mangini is late in the year with Brett Favre as the quarterback. Bottom line, Mangini needs to be fired regardless of how this season ends up. Division winners, or not.

Please spare us this dribble. Besides I thought you were "no longer a fan"

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Mangini won 10 games his first season, and there's a good chance he wins another 10 or 11 this year. With Herm we never really beat a good team. We feasted on easy schedules and never really beat a playoff caliber team, even in our good years with him. This year we've beaten a 10-0 team in the Titans, and two division rivals who are very much in the playoff hunt in Miami and New England. Yes, we have played down to the competition a lot this year in losses to Oakland, San Diego, and San Francisco, but guess what? Thats right. Once we win these next 3 games against PLAYOFF CALIBER OPPONENTS, we will be set to go in the playoffs. Oh, and guess what? Once we're in the playoffs, we won't have to worry about playing down to the competition.

I still believe.

LETS GO JETS!!!

I'm with you. Enough of this negative garbage, GO JETS !!!

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Mangini won 10 games his first season, and there's a good chance he wins another 10 or 11 this year. With Herm we never really beat a good team. We feasted on easy schedules and never really beat a playoff caliber team, even in our good years with him. This year we've beaten a 10-0 team in the Titans, and two division rivals who are very much in the playoff hunt in Miami and New England. Yes, we have played down to the competition a lot this year in losses to Oakland, San Diego, and San Francisco, but guess what? Thats right. Once we win these next 3 games against PLAYOFF CALIBER OPPONENTS, we will be set to go in the playoffs. Oh, and guess what? Once we're in the playoffs, we won't have to worry about playing down to the competition.

I still believe.

LETS GO JETS!!!

How is that different from what the Jets have done in the past though? The Jets as an organization have always played down to another team. I am praying every day we make the playoffs, and I hope to god I am wrong about Mangini right now.

I am also trying to reverse this curse right now. Last time I put Mangini down we went on a 5 game win streak.

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How is that different from what the Jets have done in the past though? The Jets as an organization have always played down to another team. I am praying every day we make the playoffs, and I hope to god I am wrong about Mangini right now.

I am also trying to reverse this curse right now. Last time I put Mangini down we went on a 5 game win streak.

I hope it works. ;)

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If Mangini doesn't win the divison then Herm > Mangini and I don't know how you argue otherwise...

Because I believe Mangini has serious upside. I truly think he will be considered a great coach one day. Herm, on the other hand, never had any upside. The mental capacity just wasn't there, and you could tell by his press conferences and all the excuses.

Either way, I really do think we will win the AFCE and reach far into the playoffs, as in AFCCG, if not the Super Bowl. It all starts Sunday....LETS DO IT JETS!

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Because I believe Mangini has serious upside. I truly think he will be considered a great coach one day. Herm, on the other hand, never had any upside. The mental capacity just wasn't there, and you could tell by his press conferences and all the excuses.

Either way, I really do think we will win the AFCE and reach far into the playoffs, as in AFCCG, if not the Super Bowl. It all starts Sunday....LETS DO IT JETS!

Why though?

Herm made the playoffs his first 2 seasons..

Neither had ever coordinated a good defense...

Just because EM has learned to mimic Belichick doesn't make him a good coach..

Note: I'm not saying Herm is a good coach, just that it's very possible that Mangini is worse.

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Why though?

Herm made the playoffs his first 2 seasons..

Neither had ever coordinated a good defense...

Just because EM has learned to mimic Belichick doesn't make him a good coach..

Note: I'm not saying Herm is a good coach, just that it's very possible that Mangini is worse.

Belichick was a HORRIBLE coach his first years at Cleveland as well. The reason I think Mangini will be good.... We've seen that he is capable of gameplanning. We saw it against NE in '06, we saw it against Pitt in '07, we saw it against Tennessee in '08... We know that Mangini doesn't have to get incredibly lucky to beat a team with a .500 or above record the way Herm did.

Our team has had some off games as well. Games where we didn't look prepared, where we didn't execute. Finding the right "buttons" to push to get a team motivated after those two HUUGE road wins over NE and Tenn. is a hard thing for a coach to do. Especially a young coach. Lets remember this is only Mangini's third year as a head coach, and he only spent a year as a coord. before coming here. He's pretty much out there learning by fire. He's not too good at adjusting on the fly as of yet, but we've seen that he makes several adjustments with his team and gameplans and overall strategy from year-to-year. In other words, he sees what he is able to see and differentiate between what he does wrong and what he does right, given a lot of time to analyze. This is also proven by his still undefeated (3-0) record following bye weeks.

Again, all of this is showing potential, not that he is the worlds greatest as of right now. I do think he is definitely a better coach than Herm, and will definitely have a more successful career than Herm. Will he be given enough time to really succeed with the Jets? I can only hope...

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Belichick was a HORRIBLE coach his first years at Cleveland as well. The reason I think Mangini will be good.... We've seen that he is capable of gameplanning. We saw it against NE in '06, we saw it against Pitt in '07, we saw it against Tennessee in '08... We know that Mangini doesn't have to get incredibly lucky to beat a team with a .500 or above record the way Herm did.

Our team has had some off games as well. Games where we didn't look prepared, where we didn't execute. Finding the right "buttons" to push to get a team motivated after those two HUUGE road wins over NE and Tenn. is a hard thing for a coach to do. Especially a young coach. Lets remember this is only Mangini's third year as a head coach, and he only spent a year as a coord. before coming here. He's pretty much out there learning by fire. He's not too good at adjusting on the fly as of yet, but we've seen that he makes several adjustments with his team and gameplans and overall strategy from year-to-year. In other words, he sees what he is able to see and differentiate between what he does wrong and what he does right, given a lot of time to analyze. This is also proven by his still undefeated (3-0) record following bye weeks.

Again, all of this is showing potential, not that he is the worlds greatest as of right now. I do think he is definitely a better coach than Herm, and will definitely have a more successful career than Herm. Will he be given enough time to really succeed with the Jets? I can only hope...

How long should we give him to reach his potential(which I'm not even sure what you're referring to)? cause it's year 3 and he's out coached on a weekly basis, not to mention this coaching staff has 0 ability to make half time adjustments or play with any kind of lead. We certainly don't lack the talent to beat teams like ****ing Oakland and SF, it's obviously the coaching. I mean he was out coached by Tom ****ing Cable and Mike Singaltary 2 interim head coaches with god awful teams

Edited by SayNoToDMC
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How long should we give him to reach his potential(which I'm not even sure what you're referring to)? cause it's year 3 and he's out coached on a weekly basis, not to mention this coaching staff has 0 ability to make half time adjustments or play with any kind of lead. We certainly don't lack the talent to beat teams like ****ing Oakland and SF, it's obviously the coaching. I mean he was out coached by Tom ****ing Cable and Mike Singaltary 2 interim head coaches with god awful teams

Dont know if you remember when we first hired Mangini, but the general feeling around the area was that the signing of a 35 year old coach who had never head coached before and was only a coord. for one year was an indication that we were going to go through a rebuilding era. The general consensus was that this move was made for the long haul, there may be some struggles ahead, but given enough time, he can make us a consistent winner.

It took Bill Cowher 30 years to win a SB in Pittsburgh. It took Bill Bellichick 6 years as a head coach to even make the playoffs (I believe). The point is young coaches are, for the most part, learning by fire. I cant remember any coach that his stepped in on day 1 and has won every game and has never suffered a single losing season. The point is, and if you really read my previous post, you'd see where I believe Mangini has shown potential. He knows how to gameplan for tough opponents, he knows how to adjust his strategy over time.

Again, this doesn't mean he's a great coach NOW. In fact, he's not even a GOOD coach NOW. My point is in five or six years he may be one of the top coaches in the league. I think this team needs some long term stability. This phase of hiring and firing new coaches every three or four yrs. has never worked for any franchise. Mike Tannenbaum has done an excellent job evaluating talent, drafting, and putting teams together. Reports indicated that he was pulling for Mangini big time while Woody was looking for our next Head Coach.

I know its tempting to say, F this, I want to win NOW, but if you look at any great coach that is a consistent winner across the league, you realize it didn't happen overnight.

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Dont know if you remember when we first hired Mangini, but the general feeling around the area was that the signing of a 35 year old coach who had never head coached before and was only a coord. for one year was an indication that we were going to go through a rebuilding era. The general consensus was that this move was made for the long haul, there may be some struggles ahead, but given enough time, he can make us a consistent winner.

It took Bill Cowher 30 years to win a SB in Pittsburgh. It took Bill Bellichick 6 years as a head coach to even make the playoffs (I believe). The point is young coaches are, for the most part, learning by fire. I cant remember any coach that his stepped in on day 1 and has won every game and has never suffered a single losing season. The point is, and if you really read my previous post, you'd see where I believe Mangini has shown potential. He knows how to gameplan for tough opponents, he knows how to adjust his strategy over time.

Again, this doesn't mean he's a great coach NOW. In fact, he's not even a GOOD coach NOW. My point is in five or six years he may be one of the top coaches in the league. I think this team needs some long term stability. This phase of hiring and firing new coaches every three or four yrs. has never worked for any franchise. Mike Tannenbaum has done an excellent job evaluating talent, drafting, and putting teams together. Reports indicated that he was pulling for Mangini big time while Woody was looking for our next Head Coach.

I know its tempting to say, F this, I want to win NOW, but if you look at any great coach that is a consistent winner across the league, you realize it didn't happen overnight.

Wtf, Cowher didn't coach for 30 years, let alone take 30 years to be a SB winner. It sure as hell took him less than 3 years to look like an NFL level coach though. By Cowher's third year, the Steelers were 12-4 and made an AFC Championship game appearance. Cowher only has 3 total losing seasons in his career, and none of them are as bad as Mangini's losing season. Cowher coached for 15 seasons, he won the SB in the 14th. But there is no way you can compare Cowher to Mangini and have Mangini look good at all, at these points in their career. And probably for any, unless Mangini gets a brain transplant in the near future.

BB's problem was that he can't deal with other human beings, and his GM stunk. If you gave BB this Jets team in his 3rd year, he'd easily win the division and probably win the SB.

You don't suddenly get a talent increase after a few years. Either you get it or you don't. Look around the league, you got guys like Zorn and Sparano who get it their very first year. You've also got the Ravens coach, and a couple of other guys. Hell, Herm Edwards didn't need these types of excuses.

But speaking of Herm, that's what you'll get in year 5. If someone doesn't get it, they'll just regress. How do Marvin Lewis and Romeo Crennel look in Year 5 of their tenures? In the NFL, if it takes you 5 years to build a team, you will always stink. The Niners and Lions have been in a rebuilding phase forever. The Niners look like they got the coach they needed now though, so I guess they can actually rebuild.

How the hell are the Jets in a rebuilding phase? Look at our players. We are one of the oldest teams in the league. What kind of rebuilding process has a team sign Faneca, trade for Favre, and in general have guys in their early 30s or late 20s at most positions? Jenkins is 29, not 22. Coles is pretty much done. TJ is 30 and an RB. Where's the rebuilding exactly? Is it because we drafted Gholston? Every team gets a draft pick every year, does that mean they rebuild too?

Edit- And on BB, he made the playoffs his 4th year. He's also never had as bad a season as Mangini.

Edited by serphnx
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I think Mangini has more of an ability to get more out of less than Herm does when he takes his head out of his behind. Herm is better with a talented team though. If Edwards was coach of this team we certainly would not have lost to Oakland, Denver and San Francisco, but we probably would have lost to the Titans. None of us know Manginis upside. We know Herm is a one and done playoff coach.

Both suck on Sundays. Herm is awful because he just seems like he has no idea what to do on Sunday. Mangini is awful because he thinks he is smarter than everyone else in the NFL. Both make bizzare decisions and both get bent out of shape when someone says "why didnt it work". I just hope when the Jets move on in 2010 they finally bring in an experienced coach that has had some success in the NFL rather than yet another no name with no experience.

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If Mangini doesn't win the divison then Herm > Mangini and I don't know how you argue otherwise...

You're kidding, right? How many games has Herm won the last 4 years? How many division titles did he ever win? One tie at 9-7? My hero.

How long should we give him to reach his potential(which I'm not even sure what you're referring to)? cause it's year 3 and he's out coached on a weekly basis, not to mention this coaching staff has 0 ability to make half time adjustments or play with any kind of lead. We certainly don't lack the talent to beat teams like ****ing Oakland and SF, it's obviously the coaching. I mean he was out coached by Tom ****ing Cable and Mike Singaltary 2 interim head coaches with god awful teams

If that's your criteria then he also outcoached Bill Belichick and Jeff Fischer 2 excellent coaches with very good teams. Mangini has plenty he can improve on, but I never cease to be amazed at how the entire fanbase is a bunch of George Steinbrenners.

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No. Herm wants to rebuild his team with youth for the future, so he trades away a 26 year old 3 time pro bowl Defensive End for a couple of draft picks. This gives him a built in excuse for losing so he doesn't have to spend time doing any type of gameplanning or coaching.

Allen wasnt going back to the Chiefs though. He wanted a blockbuster contract after having multiple DUI's. His next offense might have been a 1 year suspension IIRC.

Good player? Yes, but a risk to keep around.

Herm will have the youngest team in the NFL next season. His plan just might work, but if he doesnt go at least 8 - 8 he should be fired on the spot.

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You're kidding, right? How many games has Herm won the last 4 years? How many division titles did he ever win? One tie at 9-7? My hero.

If that's your criteria then he also outcoached Bill Belichick and Jeff Fischer 2 excellent coaches with very good teams. Mangini has plenty he can improve on, but I never cease to be amazed at how the entire fanbase is a bunch of George Steinbrenners.

Herm never had a team this talented. If Mangini can not make the playoffs with this group Im not sure any possible way you could make an argument that Mangini is better than HErm. Equal maybe. Better no way.

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Herm never had a team this talented. If Mangini can not make the playoffs with this group Im not sure any possible way you could make an argument that Mangini is better than HErm. Equal maybe. Better no way.

So you want to penalize Mangini for having a talented team? He built this team from the ground up. Who did he inherit? Moore, Baker, Coles, Cotchery, Ellis, Barton and Rhodes. Herm took over a 9-7 team and slowly ran it into the ground. He's done the same in KC, only faster. Worse, if it were simply a youth movement to build a team I'd be okay with it, but Herm literally likes to have an excuse ready for his failure.

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