afosomf Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 So you want to penalize Mangini for having a talented team? He built this team from the ground up. Who did he inherit? Moore, Baker, Coles, Cotchery, Ellis, Barton and Rhodes. Herm took over a 9-7 team and slowly ran it into the ground. He's done the same in KC, only faster. Worse, if it were simply a youth movement to build a team I'd be okay with it, but Herm literally likes to have an excuse ready for his failure. what about decision to give Penne to Phins for rien who does that fall on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason423 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 So you want to penalize Mangini for having a talented team? He built this team from the ground up. Who did he inherit? Moore, Baker, Coles, Cotchery, Ellis, Barton and Rhodes. Herm took over a 9-7 team and slowly ran it into the ground. He's done the same in KC, only faster. Worse, if it were simply a youth movement to build a team I'd be okay with it, but Herm literally likes to have an excuse ready for his failure. I want to penalize Mangini for having a talented team and not getting to the playoffs. Herm had a somewhat talented team in 2004 made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs and people wanted to run him out of town becuase of how blatantly bad a coach he was. Why should it be any different for this guy? And I totally dispute that the team was built from the ground up. They tried to do that and ended up 4-12 again. They built the team up by paying a boatload of money to lure Faneca, Jenkins, Favre, Pace, Woody, Richardson, etc...here. Thats called getting a coach players to win now and right now they are not winning. If the Jets do not win this year or next you will see the bottom completely fall out of the team because it is based on older highly compensated players brought in for this genius coach to win with right now. Unfortunately teams like the Oakland Raiders and the San francisco 49ers have stood in his way. The combined records of the teams who beat the Jets this season? 24-35 taking out their games against NY. The Jets record as a favorite 5-4. That is pathetic. Good coaches dont lose games they are favored to win the way this team does. They find a way to win those games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 As bad as Herm was, it is possible Mangini is worse. I will say this and that is Herm would win these last three games. Regardless of anything, the Jets won under Herm down the stretch when they needed to and for the most part they beat teams they were supposed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 mangini couldn't motivate a lemming to jump off a cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 No. Herm wants to rebuild his team with youth for the future, so he trades away a 26 year old 3 time pro bowl Defensive End for a couple of draft picks. This gives him a built in excuse for losing so he doesn't have to spend time doing any type of gameplanning or coaching. Mangini decides he wants to win now, brings in a HOF QB and LG, a pro bowl NT, a great pass-catching TE, a good RT, and some good depth at LB. The defense yesterday sucked, and you can put that on Mangini if you want. But if the game had mattered in the end, we would have had all 3 timeouts, a good run-stuffing defense, and a HOF QB behind center. We could never say that about a Herm Edwards coached team. Ever. Its really not even close. You just made a poitn against your own... lol Mangini didnt get all of that Tanny did... and Mangini is ****ing it up... Herm almost beat Mangini with a ****ty team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 what about decision to give Penne to Phins for rien who does that fall on? Can you rephrase that so that I can understand it and respond? I want to penalize Mangini for having a talented team and not getting to the playoffs. Herm had a somewhat talented team in 2004 made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs and people wanted to run him out of town becuase of how blatantly bad a coach he was. Why should it be any different for this guy? And I totally dispute that the team was built from the ground up. They tried to do that and ended up 4-12 again. They built the team up by paying a boatload of money to lure Faneca, Jenkins, Favre, Pace, Woody, Richardson, etc...here. Thats called getting a coach players to win now and right now they are not winning. If the Jets do not win this year or next you will see the bottom completely fall out of the team because it is based on older highly compensated players brought in for this genius coach to win with right now. Unfortunately teams like the Oakland Raiders and the San francisco 49ers have stood in his way. The combined records of the teams who beat the Jets this season? 24-35 taking out their games against NY. The Jets record as a favorite 5-4. That is pathetic. Good coaches dont lose games they are favored to win the way this team does. They find a way to win those games. Maybe I'm missing something. Did the Jets miss the playoffs in '08? Are they not in a tie for first place? You dispute that the team was built from the ground up? Maybe you have a different idea of ground up. I didn't say that it was built with young players or the draft. I said all the players are different and that's because there were mostly ****ty players left. JAbe was the only special player. Robertson was given a disgracefully large contract. As was Martin. There were very few useful parts left on that team. You want to penalize him for having talent (which he selected) but not Herm for having ****ty talent (which he selected). Then you want to penalize him for losing to ****ty teams, but not give him props for dominating good ones. Seems fair. The record is 8-5, not 2-11 and that's the number that matters to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Belichick was a HORRIBLE coach his first years at Cleveland as well. The reason I think Mangini will be good.... We've seen that he is capable of gameplanning. We saw it against NE in '06, we saw it against Pitt in '07, we saw it against Tennessee in '08... We know that Mangini doesn't have to get incredibly lucky to beat a team with a .500 or above record the way Herm did. . Belichick was a wildly successful DC before being a HC, Mangini's biggest claim to fame was being Belichicks gopher.. And Herm beat a few good teams not to mention more often then not he beat the bad teams.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Can you rephrase that so that I can understand it and respond? Maybe I'm missing something. Did the Jets miss the playoffs in '08? Are they not in a tie for first place? You dispute that the team was built from the ground up? Maybe you have a different idea of ground up. I didn't say that it was built with young players or the draft. I said all the players are different and that's because there were mostly ****ty players left. JAbe was the only special player. Robertson was given a disgracefully large contract. As was Martin. There were very few useful parts left on that team. You want to penalize him for having talent (which he selected) but not Herm for having ****ty talent (which he selected). Then you want to penalize him for losing to ****ty teams, but not give him props for dominating good ones. Seems fair. The record is 8-5, not 2-11 and that's the number that matters to me. Rien means Nada Zero Nothing Zilch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangreenman Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Belichick was a wildly successful DC before being a HC, Mangini's biggest claim to fame was being Belichicks gopher.. And Herm beat a few good teams not to mention more often then not he beat the bad teams.. When?? He beat the Pats in '02. the Chargers in '04. and who else? Cant remember him beating any playoff caliber teams at all...Even in his better years. And that Chargers game for sure we got incredibly lucky on numerous occasions. Again, Im not saying Mangini's a great, or even a good coach now. Im saying he's probably an average coach now that has shown some signs of potential to one day be great. I think we need to stick with him. Firing and hiring every 3 or 4 years has never worked. If we ever want to move beyond mediocrity, we may have to bite the bullet for a few years while we let Mangini gain some experience on the go. Eventually I think he'll be a consistent winning coach in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangreenman Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 You just made a poitn against your own... lol Mangini didnt get all of that Tanny did... and Mangini is ****ing it up... Herm almost beat Mangini with a ****ty team... My point is it was Herms idea to go on a "youth movement"... Remember, KC was a SB contender when Herm took over, now they're a #1 pick contender. Mangini had 1 bad season and supported all the moves we made in the offseason, he at least wants to win now. As for Serphnx's post, my bad about Cowher coaching for 30, that was a mess up. I think me comparing Mangini to BB or Cowher may be ridiculous, but its nowhere near you and others comparing Mangini to Crennel or Edwards. I think Mangini is an average coach at best right now. But i think, unlike Herm, and unlike Crennel, he has shown serious potential in a few games throughout his career where he did a great job gameplanning and preparing this team. Also, its not lie Mangini has never won more than 6 games in a season. he went 10-6 his first year with a team that was projected to win 5, 6 tops. He had a terrible year last year, and is now tied for first place in the AFCE and controls his own destiny the remaining 3 games and in the playoffs, if we get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Rien means Nada Zero Nothing Zilch! Were they offered anything? Could we afford to keep him and Favre? Would you have preferred not getting Favre because we couldn't afford him and keep Penny's contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Were they offered anything? Could we afford to keep him and Favre? Would you have preferred not getting Favre because we couldn't afford him and keep Penny's contract. you gotta believe someone would have panicked had jets kept him till end of TC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayNoToDMC Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 When?? He beat the Pats in '02. the Chargers in '04. and who else? Cant remember him beating any playoff caliber teams at all...Even in his better years. And that Chargers game for sure we got incredibly lucky on numerous occasions. Again, Im not saying Mangini's a great, or even a good coach now. Im saying he's probably an average coach now that has shown some signs of potential to one day be great. I think we need to stick with him. Firing and hiring every 3 or 4 years has never worked. If we ever want to move beyond mediocrity, we may have to bite the bullet for a few years while we let Mangini gain some experience on the go. Eventually I think he'll be a consistent winning coach in this league. what? we didn't give up a second or third round pick to bite the bullet for a few years. They traded for Favre not to mention the other off season signings. Mangini is an idiot. I thought this coaching staff had potential in year one, hell he even got a stupid ****ing cameo on the Sopranos....... but that's his claim to fame, he's an idiot. You either got it or you don't, it doesn't take 10 years and even interim head coaches are making him look silly this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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