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Win Out Or Get Out


Maxman

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Couldn't agree more.

I typed this up...and then it turned into my "Did I really see..." post.

If we don't win out, sadly the franchise may be better off losing the rest of them - only possible way Mangini gets sh*tcanned. I've seen enough. He may not be worse than Herm, but as of right this moment he's not markedly better despite (probably) being smarter on paper. Besides, that’s like choosing whether you’d rather have the runs on a first date with someone you like or when you’re stuck in highway traffic with someone you don’t.

This pizza-faced mule’s main background is the secondary & the only one in our defensive backfield (not just starting, but on the entire roster) who doesn't suck is a "sure-thing" first round draft pick. So apparently Mangini can get Troy Brown to cover decently but has some difficulty with Kerry Rhodes? I'm not buying it. David Barrett was never great, but even he wasn’t so bad that having him on the field even intermittently is always a liability. And Hank Poteat, Drew Coleman, Justin Miller...these are the guys he felt worthy of bringing into camp with little/no competition & then making the final roster cutdown. The "competition" for Abram Elam was Eric Smith. The competition for Eric Smith was Abram Elam. Makes me think of the "competition" between Adrien Clarke and Jacob Bender.

Mangini’s defensive coordinator, for the 3rd straight season, is a LB coach and that crew look like they would have some difficulty covering half the geeks and fat tubs of sh** on this message board. All these pass-rushers brought (or retained) here - Thomas, Pace, Gholston, Bowens - and meanwhile our 2-gapping NT and 2-gapping DE have more sacks than our starting pass-rushing OLB'ers. Those two have a combined 1.5 sacks over the past 8 games (zero coming from Bryan Thomas); the same total as CJ Mosely over that stretch. They're either a poor judge of talent, doesn't know how to coach the talent they have at their disposal, don't know how to use the talent they have at their disposal, or all of the above.

Spare me any “oh, well he really wanted Rob Ryan” garbage. You don’t piss away another season with an incompetent DC because your buddy’s under contract with someone else for 1 more year.

Sure, this team has weaknesses. But are our weaknesses worse than on teams who beat us like the Raiders and 49ers (or the friggin’ Chiefs, who nearly beat us as well)? Does anyone seriously believe the personnel on our defense is worse than the Broncos? The 49ers (without Nate Clements mind you) can keep Favre & Jones & Leon & our zillion-dollar OL off the field but we can’t seem to prevent one Shaun Hill from completing half a dozen passes to Bustant Johnson as the 49ers – THE 49ERS – control the ball for over 40 minutes despite fumbling the ball 5x (plus a pass thrown directly to David Bowens)?

The team is plenty talented enough. If you buy a goose that lays golden eggs and chop its head off the only thing that ends up getting laid is Thor.

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I will be very disappointed with this organization if we don't win the division and end up retaining Mangini while Cowher goes somewhere else

Luckily... I think the PSL pressure should be enough to force Woody to make another bold move and bring in Cowher..

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The boo birds will be out early if things don't go well. I am hoping they get out to an early lead and it isn't an issue.

Should have been out against the Broncos with that putrid effort. Maybe it'll wake this team up.

For my part, I hope there's a "We want Cowher" chant if the Jets play the way they've been playing the past 2 weeks and are losing again as a result.

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Should have been out against the Broncos with that putrid effort. Maybe it'll wake this team up.

For my part, I hope there's a "We want Cowher" chant if the Jets play the way they've been playing the past 2 weeks and are losing again as a result.

Great idea.. Can we organize one?

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here's a question

if the Jets fire mangini

who are they gonna get who is guarunteed to be any better?

isn't that the whole reason Mangini was hired in the first place? i.e. if great head coaches with experience were just sitting around waiting to be hired, no one would hire the Mangini's of the world.

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here's a question

if the Jets fire mangini

who are they gonna get who is guarunteed to be any better?

isn't that the whole reason Mangini was hired in the first place? i.e. if great head coaches with experience were just sitting around waiting to be hired, no one would hire the Mangini's of the world.

Cowher?

And please don't go down the compare Cowher and mangini route again..

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Cowher?

And please don't go down the compare Cowher and mangini route again..

ok 1 guy that says he's done coaching and 16 teams are gonna want

meanwhile if cowher got mangini's leash he would have been fired in Pittsburgh by year 4. the guy lost how many AFC championships? at home?

yeh coaching could be better but there are no parcells or bellicheks just waiting to take the job. complaining about it doesn't make it better.

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here's a question

if the Jets fire mangini

who are they gonna get who is guarunteed to be any better?

isn't that the whole reason Mangini was hired in the first place? i.e. if great head coaches with experience were just sitting around waiting to be hired, no one would hire the Mangini's of the world.

Take every coordinator and position coach in the league and hand out raffle tickets and I bet you could assemble a better coaching staff by random drawing than what's currently installed on the Jets' sideline (and booth).

At least the odds are in your favor that the HC you pick as a replacement won't be a smug, know-it-all with no sense of humility that can recognize when change is needed instead of staying the course to prove how smart he is.

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Bitonti as much as I see your point I just cannot look at things like that. The Jets took chances on both Herm and Mangini, guys that have proved next to nothing in the NFL. If the Jets tank this season basically they will be starting all over again as they will need to find a quarterback to build around. Cowher is a no brainer but at the same time why not a guy like the Giants defensive coordinator?

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why not a guy like the Giants defensive coordinator?

While I love that Spagnuolo plays an attacking defense, it's always been out of a 4-3 base... the Jets personnel isn't a good fit in a full-time 4-3 and they can ill-afford to go through another transformation that will set them back a few years at this point.

For better or worse, I think they need to bring in someone that will continue to run a 3-4 system...

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ok 1 guy that says he's done coaching and 16 teams are gonna want

meanwhile if cowher got mangini's leash he would have been fired in Pittsburgh by year 4. the guy lost how many AFC championships? at home?

yeh coaching could be better but there are no parcells or bellicheks just waiting to take the job. complaining about it doesn't make it better.

That's idiotic...

We've been through this before. If search was working on the other site, I'd just quote that post but the jist of it is that Cowher was 32-16 in his first 3 years, with 2 division championships, 3 trips to the playoffs and 1 trip to the conference championship game.

If Mangini doesn't make the playoffs he'll be at best 24-24, with 1 wild card appearance, and 0 division titles and a monumental collapse in year 3..

The fact that you compare the two is laughable....

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they are 8-5 tied for first place with 3 games to go

i think this whole conversation is a little premature

it's very possible we are sitting here a month from now talking about how mangini is great

**

besides even if there is a firing it's gonna be done on the coordinator level

lets be real woody still has PSLs to sell next year

he's not going to want to blow it all up a year before the new stadium opens.

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ok 1 guy that says he's done coaching and 16 teams are gonna want

meanwhile if cowher got mangini's leash he would have been fired in Pittsburgh by year 4. the guy lost how many AFC championships? at home?

yeh coaching could be better but there are no parcells or bellicheks just waiting to take the job. complaining about it doesn't make it better.

That's idiotic...

We've been through this before. If search was working on the other site, I'd just quote that post but the jist of it is that Cowher was 32-16 in his first 3 years, with 2 division championships, 3 trips to the playoffs and 1 trip to the conference championship game.

If Mangini doesn't make the playoffs he'll be at best 24-24, with 1 wild card appearance, and 0 division titles and a monumental collapse in year 3..

The fact that you compare the two is laughable....

Wow BIT... you just got badly owned... badly!

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ok 1 guy that says he's done coaching and 16 teams are gonna want

meanwhile if cowher got mangini's leash he would have been fired in Pittsburgh by year 4. the guy lost how many AFC championships? at home?

yeh coaching could be better but there are no parcells or bellicheks just waiting to take the job. complaining about it doesn't make it better.

How the hell did Miami, Baltimore, Atlanta and Washington all manage to get good HCs that did well their very first years? The idea is to get somebody that has the requisite experience and potential. Our last two HCs have little to no experience as coordinators. They don't have proven records on one side of the ball.

Zorn, Harbaugh, Sparano and Mike Smith are all better than Mangini. Better hires and better at using the the talent they have. I honestly think the Jets are more talented than all of those teams. In terms of pure talent, the Jets are quite possibly the best in the league. No other team has quite this much balance and such a mix of pro bowl caliber athletes. You look down our roster and virtually everyone has either gone to a pro bowl or has had serious consideration for one.

And why would Cowher get fired in year 4? Are you joking? This is what he did his first 4 years:

11-5 won division, lost playoff game

9-7 lost playoff game

12-4, wins division, got first round bye (I think), wins playoff game, loses in AFC Championship game

11-5, wins division, gets to SB

Are you kidding me??? You seriously think there is a comparison to what this guy did and Mangini? Mangini has never won the division or a playoff game, and went 4-12 last year! Yeah Maybe Cowher would get fired.....after his first decade of coaching. MAYBE. The same way Dungy and Marty got fired. But only if the guy they were bringing in was expected to win an SB, and because the guy they had just couldn't get there. But I doubt it. Look at how much it backfired against the Chargers.

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Man you guys situation is eerily similar to the 05 Steelers, no?

Seriously? I have trouble believed a Cowher coached defense could ever be as bad as the abortion we field every week. I also have trouble believed a Cowher coached offense would just ignore the run the way we do, with 2 very good RBs and a good run blocking O-line.

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im not saying Mangini is great or is terrible, what I am saying is the grass is not always greener.

also I am saying 32 teams want to win very badly and 31 teams end up losers, every year. firing the coach every year or two or four doesn't change that equation.

jets fans are like most fans, in the sense we believe we are OWED a championship.

The truth? We are owed nothing. and we should expect the same. to expect otherwise is to set yourself up for a lifetime of crap.

The reality most teams win a few playoff games before they win a super bowl, they have a window of opportunity - besides Farve this team still has a very large window of opportunity. it's a young team, after it's all said and done.

if we panic after every loss we are no better than Al Davis or Dan Snyder. over-controlling the team by firing the coach every few years isn't a wise course of action.

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How the hell did Miami, Baltimore, Atlanta and Washington all manage to get good HCs that did well their very first years? The idea is to get somebody that has the requisite experience and potential. Our last two HCs have little to no experience as coordinators. They don't have proven records on one side of the ball.

Zorn, Harbaugh, Sparano and Mike Smith are all better than Mangini. Better hires and better at using the the talent they have. I honestly think the Jets are more talented than all of those teams. In terms of pure talent, the Jets are quite possibly the best in the league. No other team has quite this much balance and such a mix of pro bowl caliber athletes. You look down our roster and virtually everyone has either gone to a pro bowl or has had serious consideration for one.

And why would Cowher get fired in year 4? Are you joking? This is what he did his first 4 years:

11-5 won division, lost playoff game

9-7 lost playoff game

12-4, wins division, got first round bye (I think), wins playoff game, loses in AFC Championship game

11-5, wins division, gets to SB

Are you kidding me??? You seriously think there is a comparison to what this guy did and Mangini? Mangini has never won the division or a playoff game, and went 4-12 last year! Yeah Maybe Cowher would get fired.....after his first decade of coaching. MAYBE. The same way Dungy and Marty got fired. But only if the guy they were bringing in was expected to win an SB, and because the guy they had just couldn't get there. But I doubt it. Look at how much it backfired against the Chargers.

I still think you all over-value your talent. Just sayin'.

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im not saying Mangini is great or is terrible, what I am saying is the grass is not always greener.

also I am saying 32 teams want to win very badly and 31 teams end up losers, every year. firing the coach every year or two or four doesn't change that equation.

jets fans are like most fans, in the sense we believe we are OWED a championship.

The truth? We are owed nothing. and we should expect the same. to expect otherwise is to set yourself up for a lifetime of crap.

The reality most teams win a few playoff games before they win a super bowl, they have a window of opportunity - besides Farve this team still has a very large window of opportunity. it's a young team, after it's all said and done.

if we panic after every loss we are no better than Al Davis or Dan Snyder. over-controlling the team by firing the coach every few years isn't a wise course of action.

I would disagree..there are not 31 losers..Some teams actually are improving!

Are we improving... i say no

8-5 is a reflection of playing AFC west and NFC west

Next year we are back to 6-10 with this inept CS

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I was so pissed off at the awful coaching on Sunday that I've stayed away from posting about the game.

But if I see another 3rd and 1 run with everybody bunched together, or rushing 3 lineman (even though it's a proven fact we can't cover with 8 guys back there) I will unleash hell.

We turned this thing around earlier in the season by being aggressive. we blitzed a lot against Buffalo and got turnovers. when we become passive on defense we get torn to shreds by nobodies.

Lets put the receivers in motion and do some bunch formations. and get Leon Washington the ****ing ball. if they continue to coach like they are it will become a joke.

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I was so pissed off at the awful coaching on Sunday that I've stayed away from posting about the game.

But if I see another 3rd and 1 run with everybody bunched together, or rushing 3 lineman (even though it's a proven fact we can't cover with 8 guys back there) I will unleash hell.

We turned this thing around earlier in the season by being aggressive. we blitzed a lot against Buffalo and got turnovers. when we become passive on defense we get torn to shreds by nobodies.

Lets put the receivers in motion and do some bunch formations. and get Leon Washington the ****ing ball. if they continue to coach like they are it will become a joke.

+1

Are they even watching game tape and making adjustments? or just so arrogant they do not feel the need to?

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they are 8-5 tied for first place with 3 games to go

i think this whole conversation is a little premature

it's very possible we are sitting here a month from now talking about how mangini is great

**

Bit, the thread title is "win out or get out"

We're working under the premise in this thread of Mangini not making the playoffs. There's plenty of other threads to discuss whether or not we make the playoffs ;)

So, if we complete the collapse and go from the SB favorites to out of the playoffs in 5 short weaks against mediocre competition (with no significant injuries), do you think Mangini should keep his job

besides even if there is a firing it's gonna be done on the coordinator level

lets be real woody still has PSLs to sell next year

he's not going to want to blow it all up a year before the new stadium opens.

Bringing in Cowher isn't blowing it up,it's adding a missing piece. (And will help sell PSL's) If we don't make the playoffs I'd expect Tannenbaum to do the hard sell on COwher, as directed by Woody

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Man it would not bother me at all if you guys landed Bill Cowher. Hell as long as anyone but Cleveland gets him i'll be happy! But if you guys did it would be awesome. I guarantee he'd win over even the toughest critics within year 1.

Cowher is not a good coach. sorry. he's emotional, but so was Herm. ;)

I'm not a big Cowher fan. I think we need a competent DC.

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