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Gholston Makes FoxSports.com "All-Overpaid" Team


The Gun Of Bavaria

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Congratulations Vernon on at least accomplishing something this season.

Typical for an Ohio State product.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/pgStory?contentId=8919888#sport=NFL&photo=8921164

Linebacker: Vernon Gholston, Jets

So far, Gholston is proving another reason why NFL team owners want a rookie salary cap. As the No. 6 overall pick in April's draft, Gholston received $21 million guaranteed as part of a five-year, $32 million deal. Gholston, though, has struggled badly while trying to make the transition from college defensive end to outside linebacker in New York's 3-4 scheme and isn't even a decent special-teams contributor.

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People have been worried/complaining about Vernon Gholston. For kicks I went back and looked at the careers of every recent 3-4 OLB i could think of... the results aren't surprising but I feel it's a good reminder to alll that these things take time:

the following are all high quality 3-4 OLB who took time to become good:

Mike Vrabel: took about 7 years to peak, was a ghost for first 4 seasons. (Gholston broke his all time sack record as Ohio State btw).

Adalius Thomas: drafted in 2000, hardly played at first but made the pro bowl in 2003 as a special teamer, wasn't a starter/sack master until his 5th year.

Shaun Phillips: 2 years on ST, starter/sack master in year 3.

James Harrison: first 2 years didn't play at all, part timer in year 3, starter/sack master in year 4.

Joey Porter: first year a ST'er/part timer, 2nd year 10 sacks

Lamarr Woodley: first year part timer, 2nd year 11.5 sacks and counting

Willie McGinist: first year part timer, 2nd year sack master

Roosevelt Colvin: started his career in CHI's 4-3 but still didn't perform as a starter until year 3.

of course we all know about:

Calvin Pace: year 5 was break-out year

Bryan Thomas: year 4 was break-out year

for control, recent 3-4 OLB who:

-were great right away and continue to be great: Terrell Suggs, Demarcus Ware

-were great right away but fell off such that their rookie years were the peak: Shawne Merriman, Kamerion Wimbley

-the jury is still out on: Anthony Spencer, Manny Lawson, and Vernon Gholston

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He may not have been a bad risk as a late first-rounder. Those guys only make like $2M/yr or so. Keller's, for example, is 5 years/$8.5M.

The problem is since the salaries are all slotted (more or less), the Jets had to know what kind of money they'd have to pay him as the #6 pick. And given that, it's foolish (but for dumb luck) to pick a guy who has to learn a brand new position. At least half these guys at the top of the draft never measure up to what they were supposed to WITHOUT changing positions.

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Bit that is all well and good and the jury is still out on him. Doesn't change the fact that he is overpaid THIS season.

If he goes out and gets 25 sacks next year he will be underpaid and hold out for a new contract. :) But this year he is WAY overpaid based on the results.

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Typical for an Ohio State product.

.

:rl:

Springs, Clements, Mangold, George, Hawk, Winfield, Whitner, Pace, Holmes, Ginn, Jenkins, Vrable, Gonzalez

There as good as any school at supplying NFL talent, yes they have their share of busts but that's reaching trying say the school doesn't supply NFL caliber players.

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:rl:

Springs, Clements, Mangold, George, Hawk, Winfield, Whitner, Pace, Holmes, Ginn, Jenkins, Vrable, Gonzalez

There as good as any school at supplying NFL talent, yes they have their share of busts but that's reaching trying say the school doesn't supply NFL caliber players.

The only reason they have busts is because of the success... people take risks on players from schools that churn out good players...

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The only reason they have busts is because of the success... people take risks on players from schools that churn out good players...

They have had a few but like you said, people tend to reach on their players (Ginn, Katzenmoyer, Dudley, Carpenter, and our very own boar hunter). Teams still think that big school roll players are a bigger impact than small school stars.

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People have been worried/complaining about Vernon Gholston. For kicks I went back and looked at the careers of every recent 3-4 OLB i could think of... the results aren't surprising but I feel it's a good reminder to alll that these things take time:

the following are all high quality 3-4 OLB who took time to become good:

Mike Vrabel: took about 7 years to peak, was a ghost for first 4 seasons. (Gholston broke his all time sack record as Ohio State btw).

Adalius Thomas: drafted in 2000, hardly played at first but made the pro bowl in 2003 as a special teamer, wasn't a starter/sack master until his 5th year.

Shaun Phillips: 2 years on ST, starter/sack master in year 3.

James Harrison: first 2 years didn't play at all, part timer in year 3, starter/sack master in year 4.

Joey Porter: first year a ST'er/part timer, 2nd year 10 sacks

Lamarr Woodley: first year part timer, 2nd year 11.5 sacks and counting

Willie McGinist: first year part timer, 2nd year sack master

Roosevelt Colvin: started his career in CHI's 4-3 but still didn't perform as a starter until year 3.

of course we all know about:

Calvin Pace: year 5 was break-out year

Bryan Thomas: year 4 was break-out year

for control, recent 3-4 OLB who:

-were great right away and continue to be great: Terrell Suggs, Demarcus Ware

-were great right away but fell off such that their rookie years were the peak: Shawne Merriman, Kamerion Wimbley

-the jury is still out on: Anthony Spencer, Manny Lawson, and Vernon Gholston

Problem with this is, by the time he's producing he'll be ready for an extension. We get the joy of paying him for his potential during this entire learning curve while collecting his 10 tackles this season.

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Problem with this is, by the time he's producing he'll be ready for an extension. We get the joy of paying him for his potential during this entire learning curve while collecting his 10 tackles this season.

This staff is great at late 1st round picks... thats about it though.. lol

Mangold / Keller - both awesome selections...

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very rarely does a team take a player with 6 overall pick and then limit his snaps like the Jets have limited VG's. He's behind Pace and thomas, not dissimilar to how Bryan Thomas was behind Abe and Ellis. How can we fairly judge a guy who is getting 15 real snaps a game?

put it another way Chris Long is playing every snap for the Rams and has maybe 3 or 4 sacks, how many of those were garbage time stats? He's making almost double what Gholston is making, but he's not overpaid?

it's true for the snaps he is playing VG is overpaid. But 2 points 1) it's not my (or yours) money 2) it was the only pick that made sense at the time, anyone who says differently is participating in revisionist history.

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D Brick was an awesome selection, chuckleheads called him a bust too

Every 4th selection should be a great one... with all the tools these guys have to evaluate talent... there is no reason not to get that pick correct... thats why people are pissed about VG...

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Problem with this is, by the time he's producing he'll be ready for an extension. We get the joy of paying him for his potential during this entire learning curve while collecting his 10 tackles this season.

I have no doubts he will have a good enough contract year to give us hope....as did Shaun Ellis and many others....

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Bit that is all well and good and the jury is still out on him. Doesn't change the fact that he is overpaid THIS season.

If he goes out and gets 25 sacks next year he will be underpaid and hold out for a new contract. :) But this year he is WAY overpaid based on the results.

Well i would guess that most rookies in the first round are way overpriced their first season.

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Every 4th selection should be a great one... with all the tools these guys have to evaluate talent... there is no reason not to get that pick correct... thats why people are pissed about VG...

admit it ecurb you called Brick a bust too.

and to say every selection should be great, if it were that easy the draft wouldn't be such an exciting event. teams made good and bad picks and no one has the benefit of hindsight.

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I dont think its fair to put him on the overpaid list. It would have been pretty shocking for VG to have had a 13 sack season simply because rookies usually are not that good, but that is the expectation level for that contract. Id say David Barrett at 2.2 million is more overpaid than Gholston making 2.3 this year.

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admit it ecurb you called Brick a bust too.

and to say every selection should be great, if it were that easy the draft wouldn't be such an exciting event. teams made good and bad picks and no one has the benefit of hindsight.

I thought he wasnt getting big enough and wasnt living up to being a 4th pick... he still isnt as big as Im sure even he wants to be and hasnt been as good as Mangold IMO... therefore not living up to his spot in the draft...

Flip flop Mangold and Brick... Brick is a 1st RD LT... just not 4th overall... and Mangold is a C that could live up to 4th overall...

But looking back isnt fair... so who cares...

Right now... TODAY... VG is overpaid.

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I thought he wasnt getting big enough and wasnt living up to being a 4th pick... he still isnt as big as Im sure even he wants to be and hasnt been as good as Mangold IMO... therefore not living up to his spot in the draft...

Flip flop Mangold and Brick... Brick is a 1st RD LT... just not 4th overall... and Mangold is a C that could live up to 4th overall...

But looking back isnt fair... so who cares...

Right now... TODAY... VG is overpaid.

You are overrating Mangold by a nearly insane amount.

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But you dont spend a top 10 pick on a center. Ever. Rarely even a 1st rounder, unless the guy is great which Mangold is.

I am just comparing how they are playing compared to draft positions... not where they should have been taken...

Mangold is playing like a top 5 pick... Brick is playing like a late 1st rounder.. .

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I am just comparing how they are playing compared to draft positions... not where they should have been taken...

Mangold is playing like a top 5 pick... Brick is playing like a late 1st rounder.. .

Brick is not very far off from playing like the elite tackles drafted top 10. Im not sure if he will ever be physical enough to reach that level, but he is close. He is much much much better than the typical LT drafted outside the top 10. I dont think that is even a question.

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I honestly believe Gholston will turn out to be a great player in this league, give him another full offseason to readjust and reevaluate himself and his techniques. He has a huge upside, the talent you can't put a cap on, as they always say you can't teach speed.

This year though, he has definitely been a bust, but given a long term evaluation of him in the coming years, I think he will be found worthy of #6 type money.

I may be wrong, but for the Jet's sake, I hope I'm right.

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Problem with this is, by the time he's producing he'll be ready for an extension. We get the joy of paying him for his potential during this entire learning curve while collecting his 10 tackles this season.

And not to mention that only McGinist shared Gholston's top 10 draft slot with the accompanying outlandish rookie contract..

Or that most of those drafted from 10-20 paid immediate dividends (Merriman, Ware, Suggs)

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Or that most of those drafted from 10-20 paid immediate dividends (Merriman, Ware, Suggs)

again how can a player pay immediate dividends if he isn't getting snaps?

Pace got a huge contract. Thomas got a slightly less huge contract. but both are established starters. No way Gholston starts over those 2.

it's rare that a team would take a #6 selection at a position where they already have 2 high priced players but there it is.

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People have been worried/complaining about Vernon Gholston. For kicks I went back and looked at the careers of every recent 3-4 OLB i could think of... the results aren't surprising but I feel it's a good reminder to alll that these things take time:

the following are all high quality 3-4 OLB who took time to become good:

Mike Vrabel: took about 7 years to peak, was a ghost for first 4 seasons. (Gholston broke his all time sack record as Ohio State btw).

Adalius Thomas: drafted in 2000, hardly played at first but made the pro bowl in 2003 as a special teamer, wasn't a starter/sack master until his 5th year.

Shaun Phillips: 2 years on ST, starter/sack master in year 3.

James Harrison: first 2 years didn't play at all, part timer in year 3, starter/sack master in year 4.

Joey Porter: first year a ST'er/part timer, 2nd year 10 sacks

Lamarr Woodley: first year part timer, 2nd year 11.5 sacks and counting

Willie McGinist: first year part timer, 2nd year sack master

Roosevelt Colvin: started his career in CHI's 4-3 but still didn't perform as a starter until year 3.

of course we all know about:

Calvin Pace: year 5 was break-out year

Bryan Thomas: year 4 was break-out year

for control, recent 3-4 OLB who:

-were great right away and continue to be great: Terrell Suggs, Demarcus Ware

-were great right away but fell off such that their rookie years were the peak: Shawne Merriman, Kamerion Wimbley

-the jury is still out on: Anthony Spencer, Manny Lawson, and Vernon Gholston

Let me get this straight... you bash Revis, who has been a very good starter and solid contributor from game one of his rookie year, and is shaping up to be a top-5 cornerback if he isn't already...

And you stick up for Gholston like this? Are you serious? The guy is invisible.

I actually liked the pick and I realize now how wrong I was. BTW, if you really watch Bryan Thomas, you may realize that he isn't as good as the words 'breakout year' imply.

BTW, I cry shenanigans on that list, I don't see Marcus Pollard anywhere on the underpaid defense.

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again how can a player pay immediate dividends if he isn't getting snaps?

Pace got a huge contract. Thomas got a slightly less huge contract. but both are established starters. No way Gholston starts over those 2.

it's rare that a team would take a #6 selection at a position where they already have 2 high priced players but there it is.

LOL

He can't beat out Bryan Thomas... of ocurse he isnt getting snaps... he isnt even tackling well on ST...

Your argument is stupid... how can a bust produce if they arent getting snaps... NO **** he isnt getting snaps... he sucks...

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Let me get this straight... you bash Revis, who has been a very good starter and solid contributor from game one of his rookie year, and is shaping up to be a top-5 cornerback if he isn't already...

Im just calling em like i see em. revis isn't perfect. He missed a tackle and his guy scored. It happened. Nothing i said was untrue.

BTW, if you really watch Bryan Thomas, you may realize that he isn't as good as the words 'breakout year' imply.

he had 8.5 sacks that's a breakout year by any measure

look im not here to say Gholston is great but go back to my original post in this thread, #3 and you will see that these things take years. between 2-7 is the range, most of em start to dominate around year 3 or 4. The jury is still out... that's not sticking up for the player it's just calling it like i see it. He was drafted high due to unbelievable potential, not for his readiness. this shouldn't be a surprise for Jets fans.

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LOL

He can't beat out Bryan Thomas... of ocurse he isnt getting snaps... he isnt even tackling well on ST...

Your argument is stupid... how can a bust produce if they arent getting snaps... NO **** he isnt getting snaps... he sucks...

you are underestimating the importance of experience. if 2 guys are just about equal (and remember Thomas was a first round pick with incredible physical gifts coming out too, he actually ran a 4.45 40 when Gholston ran 4.6) and 1 guy has 5 years playing time and another has 0, who do you think the coach is gonna go with?

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