Strategy: New Defensive Alignment Based on the Thirty-Four

[Darth Vader]

For thinkers and strategists only!

I've been thinking about a new "base" defensive front seven modeled on the 34. It's kind of outlandish, and is an inversion of premises on the DL.

OK here's the normal alignment:

OLB..ILB....ILB..OLB

....DE....NT....DE....

And here's the one I've been thinking of:

OLB..ILB....ILB..OLB

....NT...DT....NT....

To be specific, in order to see this thing not in the abstract:

Pace..Harris..Barton..BT

...Jenkins..Ellis..Cody...

Terrence Cody is the tackle for Alabama, a monster. 6'5" 365. 2010 draft.

Or lets take a player more commonly known, Vince Wilfork.

Pace..Harris..Barton..BT

...Jenkins..Ellis..Wilfork...

How do you attack this defense from a philosophical standpoint?

You run up the middle?

Well, the nose tackles are still controlling two gaps, as in the normal 34. But now they're controlling the A and B gaps to either side. They are playing on the nose of the offensive guard, between a 2-tech and a 3-tech, lets say a 2.5 tech. They can play in ant one of these - the 2, 2.5, or 3 techs. They can pinch upfield to shade the OG trying evade him inside. However now you have two mammoth guys controlling the outside of the center point. Not only that but unlike in a 43, the 34 has two ILBs stepping into the A or B gaps. Yes, the NG, Ellis, is playing a 0 or 1 tech, but that IMO is a red herring. Any runs up the middle will be such a mad pile up that you're talking about a 3 yard gain at the most. And a bounce to the outside is a bounce way outside, around a 360 lb Nose Tackle, into a 275 lb OLB...

You run off tackle or pitch it outside?

The tackle flanked outside controlling the B gap will push upfield to cut down lateral movement, including pulling Guards, and the contain man, the OLB will pinch to contain or blow up the play. Remember the NT is going to be much stronger at the POA and be harder to move than a normal DE. Obviously they may need to be "longer" NTs like Jenkins that are not 6'1" guys with short arms, although I am not sure. They still need to maintain leverage and must be able to keep the OL hands off their pads.

The advantage of this defensive posture is that it creates via what I call tandemization, an exponential increase in leverage. The sheer weight and power being brought to bear on the OL, although the DL is setting a trap with potentially a gap shooting DT or DE lined up at 0 or 1 tech over Center, paralyzes the OL into trying desperately to stretch the field laterally.

I think that is the point of this defense. The middle is a red herring. An OL will not find much success attacking up the middle. Not with two mountains over Guard, shading outside or, more likely, inside, and with two ILBs ready to attack, in a layer right behind them.

This isn't even getting creative with this Front 7. There's a lot to say as far as stunting and alignment on passing downs. And run blitzes on running downs.

The Offense will be forced to try misdirection and trap plays and to try wild stretch plays and the like.

What does the armchair Defensive Coordinator in you think about this?

[BroadwayJoe12]

It's an inventive idea and if I didn't have a final at 8am i'd look it over some more.

Firstly; I love Mt. Cody as much as the next guy, but he isn't at all NFL ready. He lacks serious physical condition and has absolutely no technique. This doesn't really pertain to the idea of the defense so i apologize hah.

I understand the idea and i really don't feel that his is much different than a normal base 3-4, just you're replacing the NT with the DE. The job of the DE is to occupy blockers so as to allow the OLBs to make the plays, as well as maintain containment on their respective sides. Jenkins would not be able to do maintain containment and pursuit the entire game; he gets exhausted as it is.

I really haven't been able to give it enough thought, but it's fun new idea. I would personally rather have BJ Raji than Cody for what it's worth.

[Darth Vader]

It's an inventive idea and if I didn't have a final at 8am i'd look it over some more.

Firstly; I love Mt. Cody as much as the next guy, but he isn't at all NFL ready. He lacks serious physical condition and has absolutely no technique. This doesn't really pertain to the idea of the defense so i apologize hah.

I understand the idea and i really don't feel that his is much different than a normal base 3-4, just you're replacing the NT with the DE. The job of the DE is to occupy blockers so as to allow the OLBs to make the plays, as well as maintain containment on their respective sides. Jenkins would not be able to do maintain containment and pursuit the entire game; he gets exhausted as it is.

I really haven't been able to give it enough thought, but it's fun new idea. I would personally rather have BJ Raji than Cody for what it's worth.

The personnel doesn't matter. Put in there whomever you deem fit.

Wilfork is a FA after this season.

[BroadwayJoe12]

The personnel doesn't matter. Put in there whomever you deem fit.

Wilfork is a FA after this season.

True, but I still don't think it changes anything. I think you're sacrificing athleticism and the ability to maintain outside contain for larger bodies. The reason that the NT needs to get doubled up mostly is because he can collapse the pocket an affect directly where the QB is going to step up. If we had jenkins as our DE he could be funneled to the outside and the QB step up right in the pocket, where Ellis would be getting dominated by the C and OG.

[Greenseed3]

It's a cute idea, and would be one hell of a run-stopping defense. But to respond to your post:

The NFL has 8 teams that run a strict 3-4 defense. Of them, only 2 teams play a two-gapping system. NTs like Wilfork and Jenkins do not grow on trees. It's not just their size; it's a combination of size, strength and mobility. Financial matters aside, I think any team would love to have DL with that talent to work with. But it is difficult to assemble, and even more so with a less popular defensive set.

Look at the Williams' duo in Minnesotta, or former Jaguar DL with Stroud and Henderson. Anytime you have that level of talent, you will have success. The problem is you have 24 teams that need talented big-bodies to play their 4-3 and how many have deadly D-line tandems?

In this case, your "Double-Nose" idea, the lineman are designed to occupy lineman so that the linebackers can make the plays. While playing Jenkins and Wilfork would surely cause havok, it's still the responsibility of the linebackers to fire gaps and make tackles. So the ability of this Double-Nose defense is still dependent on the talent of its supporting cast.

[RoadFan]

How do you rush the passer and how do you defend the screen?

[Greenseed3]

I like the idea of loading up on the outside and forcing action to the middle of the field. Filtering all running plays through the middle of your defense would probably piss off a lot of running backs.

But if I'm an OC looking at that set-up, I try to exploit Bryan Thomas and Calvin Pace. I'd run a lot of screen passes that allow Wilfork or Jenkins to get by untouched and I'd sweep two lineman out on the screen pass to set up blocks.

I would play a hurry-up spread offense with an empty backfield and get those lineman to suck wind. If you can stop me with stout, I will beat you with speed.

[JetsYanksTerps]

How do you rush the passer and how do you defend the screen?

That's what I'm thinking. This would be an absolutely incredible run defense but you could never get a pass rush. The 3 big guys can't get enough pressure on their own, or as much as the DE-NT-DE system can, so you'd always have to bring LB's. In theory, I really do like it, it just can't be your base defense. I'd like to see if we could try it against teams that have a really good running attack and not great passing (e.g. Titans, Panthers, etc). But imagine this kind of base defense going against the Cardinals or even the Broncos. They'd throw the ball all day long.

It's a great idea for a type of package to try in certain situations, maybe on 1st down against a team that primarily starts drives with the run.

[Darth Vader]

That's what I'm thinking. This would be an absolutely incredible run defense but you could never get a pass rush. The 3 big guys can't get enough pressure on their own, or as much as the DE-NT-DE system can, so you'd always have to bring LB's. In theory, I really do like it, it just can't be your base defense. I'd like to see if we could try it against teams that have a really good running attack and not great passing (e.g. Titans, Panthers, etc). But imagine this kind of base defense going against the Cardinals or even the Broncos. They'd throw the ball all day long.

It's a great idea for a type of package to try in certain situations, maybe on 1st down against a team that primarily starts drives with the run.

Q: where does the rush come from in the 34?

A: usually the onus is ion the OLBs.

Q: How does this system optimze the pass rush?

A: Having two NTs in at DE controls the the OL and their gaps at those places on the outside where the OLBs will be trying to bend the edge. Advantage: outside pass rush.

As far as the screen, the OL has to get out there block don't they????

[Maxman]

It seems like it would be similar to what that Jets are doing in that there would never be any pressure from the 3 DL and it is hard to run against. Granted that would be harder to run against and they would get less pressure.

But I see teams doing what they do to the Jets. 5 WR spread, no backs, no huddle. Getting all those big boys tired in a hurry.

Although if Ellis keeps getting the munchies he will soon be at DT weight and the Jets will be one step closer to this alignment.

[Sperm Edwards]

Cleveland tried something similar to that last year with 6'4/340-lb (albeit older-than-dirt) Orpheus Roye at LDE. They alternated Ethan Kelley (and even older than older-than-dirt Ted Washington) at NT, and 6'4/310-lb Robaire Smith at RDE.

Now granted, the individual personnel is more important than their on-paper size. And Orpheus Roye at age 34 yo isn't remotely the same as Kris Jenkins at age 29-30. But suffice to say, it was a disaster.

So they replaced Kelley/Washington with Shaun Rogers (who, while a big body, isn't at a disadvantage in any way to Shaun Ellis; I don't even know that he's any slower despite having 50 lbs on him), Roye with 6'4/320-lb Corey Williams, and Robaire Smith with 6'2/325-lb Shaun Smith. W

And they still suck, even against the run. hile Smith is an inch or two shorter than the "ideal" end-tackle, and his wingspan may in turn be a tiny bit less, I seriously doubt that would make all the difference in the world.

[CTM]

It seems like it would be similar to what that Jets are doing in that there would never be any pressure from the 3 DL and it is hard to run against. Granted that would be harder to run against and they would get less pressure.

But I see teams doing what they do to the Jets. 5 WR spread, no backs, no huddle. Getting all those big boys tired in a hurry.

Although if Ellis keeps getting the munchies he will soon be at DT weight and the Jets will be one step closer to this alignment.

Yup.

First thing that comes to mind, spread it out and hurry it up to tire all those big dudes out...