Thai Jet Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Care to post one of those about Favre from 1998 and on? He's better than Chad at choking in big games, NFC Championship last year, 2 losing seasons in a row before that, choking in the Superbowl against Denver etc... Even for you this is stupid. And that's saying a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Jet Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Home of the Fighting Knights And apparently morons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Bad choice of words when you consider the alternative. ??? I couldn't think of a worse alternative.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 I can put aside my fears of Chad throwing flutter balls like he did with the Jets. He's not a strong arm QB, but I have seen some serious mustard coming from his arm this year. Think about it, this year Chad has completed his longest pass for a TD in his career and, he's also completed his longest run from scrimmage this year. Our coaches get the most out of Chad, the same can't be said for NY's system. Get this .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirlancemehlot Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Herm was a bad coach. Still is. But that having been said, QBs get hit. Good ones, bad ones, etc. Was it Herm's fault that Chad dove for a first down and took a bad hit? Was it Herms fault that Chad fell poorly on his wrist when he was rolling out of the pocket? At the end of the day, Chad got hurt because of a hit, not because of many. Do you blame Marvin Lewis for Carson Palmers ACL? Do you blame Bill Belicheck for Brady's Knee? Do you blame Marty Shottenheimer for Brees's shoulder? It's the NFL, every QB gets hit, more than once. Some take it, others don't. Herm didn't get Penny hurt. Herm kept playing a hurt QB with a torn rotator cuff and labrum for nearly half a season. That's a rotten coach. Penny played on in pain and did his duty--but it was Herm that wrecked his shoulder--especially considering he brought Pennington back too soon and continued to play him injured the following year until his body could no longer function. Somehow tis has become a Penny VS. Brett thread which is rediculous. The two are so diametrically opposed in mind, body and style that they can't be compared realistically. Penny and Favre are, in fact, at this point very similar due to the age of one and the strenght of the other. Body of work over a career--by all means Penny can't hold a candle to Brett. This year, these systems, the most recent games...not much difference really. I give Brett the edge on Moxie which has translated to a tougher attitude and more winning culture on this team. But our record would be no different with either at the helm. The CS is the culprit to any offensive failure on this team. They don't get the most out of their players and don't play to the strengths of this specific group. Penny was a victim of this, as is Leon, Clowney, Smith, Cotch and Coles, Baker, the recently departed Miller, Elam, Gholston..I could go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsMetsRangers Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Chad is a major part of our turnaround. Having a mistake free QB under center week in and week out is a major component of a winning team. I'm in no way discounting the superb job done by the defense and coaching staff, but having Chad in Miami, playing well, is of immense importance. I am far from a Chad hater and have always thought Pennington was a good to above average NFL QB when healthy......The problem as i see it with many Jet fans is that we were most likely never going to win a Superbowl with Pennington..... He can be an effective QB when limiting his turnovers as he has this year coupled with a very good defense and good running game, the problem as always has been putting up points...... Statistically he is having a very good year and has the benefit of a very good defense (which he helps with his game management and few turnovers) but still the scoring offense is ranked in the bottom of the league.....Jet fans are all too familiar with this scenario..... With all this going for him the Dolphins are still barely beating below average teams despite playing mistake free ball.....Many Jet fans ( i was a little slower than most ) came to the realization that it is not likely Pennington could lead us to the superbowl because the margin of error with Chad is basically nil.....If he has a bad game you have very little chance of winning...... If the Jets are behind by a couple of scores or Pennington throws a bad pick you just never got the feeling we were going to be able to overcome the mistakes..... While i do not feel Favre has been more than adequate this year, i still feel the Jets can come back from mistakes because he can put points on the board.... I think Pennington can still win a big game but not 3 big games in a row like you need to get to the superbowl......With all that being said if they both win this week, the final game should be a great watch..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 What does my reputation have to do with it? Am I Wrong that Herm destroyed Pennington's shoulder? That Pennington took a pay cut? That he lobbied to get Coles back, That he played with an O-line that nearly got him killed last year (and likely destroyed Clemens confidence for seasons to come) Am I wrong that his agent and the beloved Tannenbaum drew up his contract which the Jets organization happily signed? That he, unlike the Gholston's of the team, actually played for his money? That after years of service to the team he was summarily shoved out the door for a guy who openly admitted that we were his last choice? Am I wrong that Penny was a better QB than the team and CS around him allowed him to be the last two years (see: Favre as the New Mr. Dink and Dunk, and Pennington as the QB of the former basement-dwelling Phins.) I believe I've made a point here. You don't have to agree, but I wouldn't be so quick to attack reputations without backing up your own opinions. Now as for Pennington, I can only hope news come out that he's been caught in a horse-fighting ring, sets fire Nuns simply because they "burn funnier", or he knocks up my sister. That way I can dislike him as much as I'm beginning to dislike Mr. Hector. Absolutely, 100000000% Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 I am far from a Chad hater and have always thought Pennington was a good to above average NFL QB when healthy......The problem as i see it with many Jet fans is that we were most likely never going to win a Superbowl with Pennington..... He can be an effective QB when limiting his turnovers as he has this year coupled with a very good defense and good running game, the problem as always has been putting up points...... Statistically he is having a very good year and has the benefit of a very good defense (which he helps with his game management and few turnovers) but still the scoring offense is ranked in the bottom of the league.....Jet fans are all too familiar with this scenario..... With all this going for him the Dolphins are still barely beating below average teams despite playing mistake free ball.....Many Jet fans ( i was a little slower than most ) came to the realization that it is not likely Pennington could lead us to the superbowl because the margin of error with Chad is basically nil.....If he has a bad game you have very little chance of winning...... If the Jets are behind by a couple of scores or Pennington throws a bad pick you just never got the feeling we were going to be able to overcome the mistakes..... While i do not feel Favre has been more than adequate this year, i still feel the Jets can come back from mistakes because he can put points on the board.... I think Pennington can still win a big game but not 3 big games in a row like you need to get to the superbowl......With all that being said if they both win this week, the final game should be a great watch..... This is basically the crux of it. Case in point: Miami is 0-4 this year when they give up 20+ points. Jets are 4-3 in those situations. Now it's not purely that simple, as Favre's turnovers contribute to the other team having more scoring opportunities. But our defense blows right now & Pennington wouldn't be the answer for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Moses Posted December 16, 2008 Author Share Posted December 16, 2008 Hey, no doubt, it was time for a divorce. I just don't understand all the hatred for the guy now that's he's gone. And if the Phins do beat the Jets and that results in the Jets either not winning the division or worse, not making the playoffs, then you gotta tip your hat to the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashingjet Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 I hate Chad more than most. But this is true. That having been said, he still runs the 23rd ranked scoring offense, so all you're really getting with him is a lack of the negatives. The point remains, as it always had, that Chad cannot lead a high powered offense. He has not proven any differently. Chad plays offense. Offense has an affect on defense and the whole team, but at the end of the day, he's responsible for the success of the offense primarily. And the Miami Dolphin offense is not at all impressive. Thank you. There is a point that you make that I take issue with, the fact that Chad can't lead a high powered offense. Who cares about a high powered offense? When was the last time a high powered offense won the Superbowl? Not last year, the high powered offense lost the SB to a team that didn't have one. New Englands 3 rings, none of those teams had a high powered offense. Pittsburgh, not considered a high power offense in 2005. Baltimore and Tampa Bay... Nope, defense won those SB's Basically, in the past 8 years, defense and smart play on offense has won the Superbowl with the exception of Indy in 2006. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancemehl Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Thank you. There is a point that you make that I take issue with, the fact that Chad can't lead a high powered offense. Who cares about a high powered offense? When was the last time a high powered offense won the Superbowl? Not last year, the high powered offense lost the SB to a team that didn't have one. New Englands 3 rings, none of those teams had a high powered offense. Pittsburgh, not considered a high power offense in 2005. Baltimore and Tampa Bay... Nope, defense won those SB's Basically, in the past 8 years, defense and smart play on offense has won the Superbowl with the exception of Indy in 2006. The colts and rams are the ONLY TWO I can remember in the last decade, then, I guess Elway and Favre, (and when it's great O vs great D, great d usually wins) but, great point, I ALWAYS said, Chad absolutely CAN win a superbowl and as evidence i point to Dilfer, Rypien,McMahon,Hostetler.....don't make me keep thinking, u get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashingjet Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 The colts and rams are the ONLY TWO I can remember in the last decade, then, I guess Elway and Favre, (and when it's great O vs great D, great d usually wins) but, great point, I ALWAYS said, Chad absolutely CAN win a superbowl and as evidence i point to Dilfer, Rypien,McMahon,Hostetler.....don't make me keep thinking, u get it. Thanks Some of the best offenses of the last decades have almost always failed at some point. Minnesotta with Moss, Rams (second tme around), 07' Pats and don't get me started on Miami's offense with Dan Marino, we could put up points with the best of them, and as I'm constantly reminded of here, he never won a ring. The 98' Broncos, with a 2,000 yard Terrell Davis got there, but then again, having a back as amazing as he was helped. The Rams of 99' are the only true high scoring offense that won the SB, despite their defense. Me bringing this up is in no way me saying Miami is going to the SB this year, just pointing out the fact that we don't need to score an average 30 points a game and have a QB throwing 300 yards a game, in order to possibly reach the SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEJet Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Chad is not a SB QB Fight the fight I guess CJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashingjet Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Chad is not a SB QB Fight the fight I guess CJ I didn't say Chad was SB QB. What I was trying to convey was the fact that there are more variables in reaching the SB than having a "gun slinger" in the pocket. 90% of the last SB teams won, not with high scoring, but with all around good play in all phases of the game. Do you think Dilfer was a good QB? Do you think Chad is a better QB than Dilfer? No need to answer, just mull it over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEJet Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 No...I think Dilfer could throw a 20 yard out in the wind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Herm didn't get Penny hurt. Herm kept playing a hurt QB with a torn rotator cuff and labrum for nearly half a season. So, it was all Herm's decision? Chad had nothing to do with it? Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Thank you. There is a point that you make that I take issue with, the fact that Chad can't lead a high powered offense. Who cares about a high powered offense? When was the last time a high powered offense won the Superbowl? Not last year, the high powered offense lost the SB to a team that didn't have one. New Englands 3 rings, none of those teams had a high powered offense. Pittsburgh, not considered a high power offense in 2005. Baltimore and Tampa Bay... Nope, defense won those SB's Basically, in the past 8 years, defense and smart play on offense has won the Superbowl with the exception of Indy in 2006. Defense does win Championships, as they say. But outside of the Ravens/Bears situations, how often do you see teams with poor offenses, and yes, a team that is 23rd in the league in points is exactly that. Sperm Edwards points out above that the Fins are 0-4 when they allow 20+. That's a problem. Here's the deal, as I've always said. Chad would be a great QB if you NEVER had to outscore another team, and could just shut them down every time. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen. Sometimes, you have to score to win. And when that happens, and Chad is outside of his comfort zone of managing a game, and being forced to throw for the win, and take some chances, well then it's over. That's always been my problem with him. He's like a well trained boxer in the ring. Sure, he can dance around, throw well timed combos, and win a fight by 'out boxing' you, but not every boxing match is one by 'boxing', if you know what I mean. Sometimes, it's just a fight. Chad doesn't win a fight, he gets knocked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 So, it was all Herm's decision? Chad had nothing to do with it? Ok. Aw, c'mon - don't you realize? Everyone's a victim to Herm. Just like it was Herm's fault that Martin's career is over. People are not responsible for their own actions. Herm controls them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 I didn't say Chad was SB QB. What I was trying to convey was the fact that there are more variables in reaching the SB than having a "gun slinger" in the pocket. 90% of the last SB teams won, not with high scoring, but with all around good play in all phases of the game. Do you think Dilfer was a good QB? Do you think Chad is a better QB than Dilfer? No need to answer, just mull it over. Dilfer had one of the best defenses of all time, I believe their defense scored almost as many points as it gave up during the playoff run. If you want to wait around and hope you build an all time defense down there, be my guest. I'd prefer to take the more proven successful path to a SB victory, having a big time QB who can make all the throws and win in ANY type of game, not just low scoring affairs. Winning is about flexibility, the fact that your team is 0-4 when the opposing team scores more the 20 should tell you how flexible your team is. Fun fact: In 3 complete games Chad had NEVER lead an offensive TD drive against the Steelers. You are just spinning your wheels with Chad at QB and it's very amusing to hear you making the same arguments that Jets fans made for the last 4 years.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Thank you. There is a point that you make that I take issue with, the fact that Chad can't lead a high powered offense. Who cares about a high powered offense? When was the last time a high powered offense won the Superbowl? Not last year, the high powered offense lost the SB to a team that didn't have one. New Englands 3 rings, none of those teams had a high powered offense. Pittsburgh, not considered a high power offense in 2005. Baltimore and Tampa Bay... Nope, defense won those SB's Basically, in the past 8 years, defense and smart play on offense has won the Superbowl with the exception of Indy in 2006. There's a middle-ground between "high-powered offense" and CPF. The 2007 Giants were ranked 14th in the league in scoring last year (top half) and they only really picked up steam in the later part of the season. Without making any major offseason changes on offense (aside from jettisoning a 4-time Pro Bowl TE), that same unit is 4th in scoring this season. Other recent Super Bowl winners: 2006 - Colts (2nd in scoring) 2005 - Steelers (9th) 2004 - Patriots (4th) 2003 - Patriots (12th) 2002 - Tampa Bay (18th) 2001 - Patriots (6th) 2000 - Ravens (14th) 1999 - Rams (1st) 1998 - Broncos (2nd) 1997 - Broncos (1st) 1996 - Packers (1st) 1995 - Cowboys (3rd) 1994 - 49ers (1st) 1993 - Cowboys (2nd) 1992 - Cowboys (2nd) 1991 - Redskins (1st) 1990 - Giants (15th) 1989 - 49ers (1st) 1988 - 49ers (7th) That's twenty years of Super Bowl winners and in the four years I listed above where the team didn't have a top-10 scoring offense, in each case (2003 Pats, 2002 Bucs, 2000 Ravens, 1990 Giants), the team had the #1 ranked defense in the NFL. So, allow me to ask you this... when was the last time a team won a Super Bowl with a bottom-10 ranked scoring offense? Keep touting CPF... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 There's a middle-ground between "high-powered offense" and CPF. The 2007 Giants were ranked 14th in the league in scoring last year (top half) and they only really picked up steam in the later part of the season. Without making any major offseason changes on offense (aside from jettisoning a 4-time Pro Bowl TE), that same unit is 4th in scoring this season. Other recent Super Bowl winners: 2006 - Colts (2nd in scoring) 2005 - Steelers (9th) 2004 - Patriots (4th) 2003 - Patriots (12th) 2002 - Tampa Bay (18th) 2001 - Patriots (6th) 2000 - Ravens (14th) 1999 - Rams (1st) 1998 - Broncos (2nd) 1997 - Broncos (1st) 1996 - Packers (1st) 1995 - Cowboys (3rd) 1994 - 49ers (1st) 1993 - Cowboys (2nd) 1992 - Cowboys (2nd) 1991 - Redskins (1st) 1990 - Giants (15th) 1989 - 49ers (1st) 1988 - 49ers (7th) That's twenty years of Super Bowl winners and in the four years I listed above where the team didn't have a top-10 scoring offense, in each case (2003 Pats, 2002 Bucs, 2000 Ravens, 1990 Giants), the team had the #1 ranked defense in the NFL. So, allow me to ask you this... when was the last time a team won a Super Bowl with a bottom-10 ranked scoring offense? Keep touting CPF... Man, since Chad became a Phin you've really upped your game. You're owning these clowns left and right. I'm tempted to give you another POTW nom, but I just did it last week.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Man, since Chad became a Phin you've really upped your game. You're owning these clowns left and right. I'm tempted to give you another POTW nom, but I just did it last week.. That's because it created a new festering swarm of Kool-Aid ingesting morons who worship at the alter of mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 A good Jets fan friend of mine is a huge Pennington ball-sucker/Favre hater. I want to remain friends with him, but I feel like I've lost him and that we are starting to go our separate ways. What do I do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Moses Posted December 16, 2008 Author Share Posted December 16, 2008 Aw, c'mon - don't you realize? Everyone's a victim to Herm. Just like it was Herm's fault that Martin's career is over. People are not responsible for their own actions. Herm controls them. Well... let's put it this way, I think the Jets history circa 21st Century would be alot different if Herm had never graced the offices in Hempstead LI with his presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashingjet Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Dilfer had one of the best defenses of all time, I believe their defense scored almost as many points as it gave up during the playoff run. If you want to wait around and hope you build an all time defense down there, be my guest. I'd prefer to take the more proven successful path to a SB victory, having a big time QB who can make all the throws and win in ANY type of game, not just low scoring affairs. Winning is about flexibility, the fact that your team is 0-4 when the opposing team scores more the 20 should tell you how flexible your team is. Fun fact: In 3 complete games Chad had NEVER lead an offensive TD drive against the Steelers. You are just spinning your wheels with Chad at QB and it's very amusing to hear you making the same arguments that Jets fans made for the last 4 years.. I can dispute 90% of what you wrote, but I really don't care what you think and I don't care about your cherry picked stats. Why not bring up that we are 7-1 in our last 8 games? Instead you keep bringing up the 1 tired stat that makes us look like a bad team. If "spinning our wheels" with Chad is going from 1-15 to 9-5 and controlling our own destiny, then I'll take it. Do you not think the Jets are spinning their wheels with Favre? It's the definition of having a lame-duck QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 A good Jets fan friend of mine is a huge Pennington ball-sucker/Favre hater. I want to remain friends with him, but I feel like I've lost him and that we are starting to go our separate ways. What do I do? Lose him. But first sterilize him, we can't have people like that procreating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashingjet Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Man, since Chad became a Phin you've really upped your game. You're owning these clowns left and right. I'm tempted to give you another POTW nom, but I just did it last week.. You make me Ha- happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 I can dispute 90% of what you wrote, but I really don't care what you think and I don't care about your cherry picked stats. Why not bring up that we are 7-1 in our last 8 games? Instead you keep bringing up the 1 tired stat that makes us look like a bad team. When did I say they were a bad team? in fact just yesterday I told you exactly what I thought that they were a average/good team that beats who they should. Besides, the only person being taken down is Chad here, for the benefit of the rest of the team. You are the one pimping Chad at the expense of the rest of the team. If "spinning our wheels" with Chad is going from 1-15 to 9-5 and controlling our own destiny, then I'll take it. Do you not think the Jets are spinning their wheels with Favre? It's the definition of having a lame-duck QB. No, because Favre will be gone next year and we will move on. You'll be playing these games with Chad for at least 3-4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 You make me Ha- happy Dispute his post then, since your the clown that brought up the tangent about high powered offenses not winning SB's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashingjet Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Dispute his post then, since your the clown that brought up the tangent about high powered offenses not winning SB's... There is no link posted, he could have made up those stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Why do you guys waste your time? You have been through this 1000 times... your feeding right into the trolls posts... We all know what Chad is capable of, there is a large enough sample size. Anyone can spin it however they want to... it doesn't matter. Just end this thread already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashingjet Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Why do you guys waste your time? You have been through this 1000 times... your feeding right into the trolls posts... We all know what Chad is capable of, there is a large enough sample size. Anyone can spin it however they want to... it doesn't matter. Just end this thread already. Says the biggest Chad homer ever Since Chad has left NY's incompetent coaching staff he has flourished. This thread will live as long as that stupid Wes Welker thread does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 There is no link posted, he could have made up those stats. weak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 There is no link posted, he could have made up those stats. Assume that I didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Says the biggest Chad homer ever Since Chad has left NY's incompetent coaching staff he has flourished. This thread will live as long as that stupid Wes Welker thread does. Your just jealous... im just sayin... these JETS fans that like to bash Chad seem to care about him more than those who like him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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