Mangini Shows Humorous Side; JetNation Speechless

[Magnus Malax]

Just listening to the WFAN update, they played a clip from the presser where Mangini was asked (for the umpteenth time) about why they are winless against the "west coast".

He responded with a somewhat humorous retort (at least I liked it...) about how we weren't playing the west coast but rather a team.

To paraphrase, he followed up with a comment about "Who's starting at QB for them? California?"

For all the flack the nation is willing to dish out because he doesn't stoke your emotional fire or your need for information, I felt that this piece of humor at least required acknowledgement.

[SMC]

Just listening to the WFAN update, they played a clip from the presser where Mangini was asked (for the umpteenth time) about why they are winless against the "west coast".

He responded with a somewhat humorous retort (at least I liked it...) about how we weren't playing the west coast but rather a team.

To paraphrase, he followed up with a comment about "Who's starting at QB for them? California?"

For all the flack the nation is willing to dish out because he doesn't stoke your emotional fire or your need for information, I felt that this piece of humor at least required acknowledgement.

Mangini can be as boring as a Lifetime movie, I couldn't care less.

I want him to coach his team to the best of the players' abilities, which he hasn't done on a consistent basis.

[Vicious89x]

This thread actually is quite useful. It's proving Mangini to be what he is, a clown.

[Magnus Malax]

I want him to coach his team to the best of the players' abilities, which he hasn't done on a consistent basis.

We've debated this before, have we not? At what point does "coaching to the best of abilities" happen vs. "the players not playing up to their abilities"? If Jenkins is on one wheel and isn't "up to his abilities" is that the CS's fault?

Is it possible that the players are inconsistent in execution?

[Magnus Malax]

This thread actually is quite useful. It's proving Mangini to be what he is, a clown.

What is it with you and the name-calling? What are you? 12?

[Garb]

Just listening to the WFAN update, they played a clip from the presser where Mangini was asked (for the umpteenth time) about why they are winless against the "west coast".

He responded with a somewhat humorous retort (at least I liked it...) about how we weren't playing the west coast but rather a team.

To paraphrase, he followed up with a comment about "Who's starting at QB for them? California?"

For all the flack the nation is willing to dish out because he doesn't stoke your emotional fire or your need for information, I felt that this piece of humor at least required acknowledgement.

This is humor? Wow.

[SMC]

We've debated this before, have we not? At what point does "coaching to the best of abilities" happen vs. "the players not playing up to their abilities"? If Jenkins is on one wheel and isn't "up to his abilities" is that the CS's fault?

Is it possible that the players are inconsistent in execution?

Jim Zorn, HC of the Skins, had the best response to that the other day. Every press conference the past couple of weeks he kept on defending the scheme and said the problem was with the execution. This week he changed his tune and said the problem starts with him.

Jenkins can be wearing down, but that doesn't excuse the Jets coaches from having Pace play primarily in coverage, or the DBs play 10 yards off of receivers, or the coaches having no answer for Mike Martz bunch formation, or Mangini punting from the Niners 38 yard line.

Mangini is supposed to be an asset to his players. He and his staff haven't been. JMJ wrote it best in another thread: while 7 probowlers doesn't say much, it means that opposing coaches and players think the Jets are stocked with talent. They are in a scrum for a playoff spot because of the ineptitude of their coaching staff.

[JMJ]

While I'm someone who couldn't care less about his personality and never talks about it, like SMC said, I don't give a flying god damn about anything else regarding Mangini except for whether or not I feel he has our team in the best possible position to win each week.

He doesn't.

Bellichick is a scab of a personality. You think anyone in New England gives a crap? Win and you can do or say (or not say) anything you freaking want and we'll let it slide. Show up each week and get shown up by terrible teams and coaches each week like Mangini does and people will start picking you apart. That's how it works.

[Magnus Malax]

Well, I wont' argue with you about the "Pace in coverage" issue. He needs to be our "Demarcus Ware". I wrote in another thread about how I felt that the lack of blitzers must speak to some great lack of confidence in the secondary.

[Garb]

Jim Zorn, HC of the Skins, had the best response to that the other day. Every press conference the past couple of weeks he kept on defending the scheme and said the problem was with the execution. This week he changed his tune and said the problem starts with him.

Jenkins can be wearing down, but that doesn't excuse the Jets coaches from having Pace play primarily in coverage, or the DBs play 10 yards off of receivers, or the coaches having no answer for Mike Martz bunch formation, or Mangini punting from the Niners 38 yard line.

Mangini is supposed to be an asset to his players. He and his staff haven't been. JMJ wrote it best in another thread: while 7 probowlers doesn't say much, it means that opposing coaches and players think the Jets are stocked with talent. They are in a scrum for a playoff spot because of the ineptitude of their coaching staff.

I beleive that Mangini thinks he has - and it could be true - a suspect secondary. This is why he does not want to leave 'em out there 1 on 1 and does not blitz as much as you would all like. He also has issues with his outside lb's. Funny that both Pizza-Face-Bumble-Gum-Wad-Chewer and BB have the same issues ....and yes, the Pats' defenseive woes are worse.

[Boynton Beach Jets]

Mangini can be as boring as a Lifetime movie, I couldn't care less.

I want him to coach his team to the best of the players' abilities, which he hasn't done on a consistent basis.

7 pro bowlers and 5 alternates does not equal just missing out in the playoffs

[Scott Dierking]

We've debated this before, have we not? At what point does "coaching to the best of abilities" happen vs. "the players not playing up to their abilities"? If Jenkins is on one wheel and isn't "up to his abilities" is that the CS's fault?

Is it possible that the players are inconsistent in execution?

Players not tackling is a coaching problem.

Coaches not adjusting well in game is a Mangini problem.

Poor continual self-scouting is also a Mangini problem.

[Magnus Malax]

Pizza-Face-Bumble-Gum-Wad-Chewer

Behave. There's no need for this kind of derogatory name-calling. You can come up with more substantive filler.

[Garb]

Behave. There's no need for this kind of derogatory name-calling. You can come up with more substantive filler.

more substance? okay.

Pizza-faced-bubble-gum-wad-chewing-rat-scum.

[JMJ]

I beleive that Mangini thinks he has - and it could be true - a suspect secondary. This is why he does not want to leave 'em out there 1 on 1 and does not blitz as much as you would all like. He also has issues with his outside lb's. Funny that both Pizza-Face-Bumble-Gum-Wad-Chewer and BB have the same issues ....and yes, the Pats' defenseive woes are worse.

That is totally *ss backwards though. Everyone knows that the best way to hide inefficiencies in your secondary is by bringing pressure at the QB and not giving him and his WRs enough time to pick on your weakness.

You can't ask any NFL CB to cover any NFL WR for more than 4-5 seconds. It is impossible. Your pass rush needs to get to the opposing QB before the secondary's coverage has time to break down.

If you rush 3 and drop 8 into zone coverage (which we always do), you allow the WRs to release freely off the line into their passing routes, find holes in the zone and settle there while simultaneously giving the opposing QB all the time in the world to go through his progressions and find the receiver who found the whole in the zone.

They say that insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. Well, that is Mangini with our pass defense. Hasn't it been proven that 3 men rushing and 8 in coverage is not working? Why keep expecting a different result?

Bring some friggin heat! Teams can't convert 3rd and 9 passes if you bring 7 men at the QB. The pass rushers get there before the WRs even have time to get 9 yards down the field. It is not rocket science.

[Magnus Malax]

more substance? okay.

Pizza-faced-bubble-gum-wad-chewing-rat-scum.

Nice try. No.

[Boynton Beach Jets]

Players not tackling is a coaching problem.

Coaches not adjusting well in game is a Mangini problem.

Poor continual self-scouting is also a Mangini problem.

100% right on!!!

[Garb]

That is totally *ss backwards though. Everyone knows that the best way to hide inefficiencies in your secondary is by bringing pressure at the QB and not giving him and his WRs enough time to pick on your weakness.

You can't ask any NFL CB to cover any NFL WR for more than 4-5 seconds. It is impossible. Your pass rush needs to get to the opposing QB before the secondary's coverage has time to break down.

If you rush 3 and drop 8 into zone coverage (which we always do), you allow the WRs to release freely off the line into their passing routes, find holes in the zone and settle there while simultaneously giving the opposing QB all the time in the world to go through his progressions and find the receiver who found the whole in the zone.

They say that insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. Well, that is Mangini with our pass defense. Hasn't it been proven that 3 men rushing and 8 in coverage is not working? Why keep expecting a different result?

Bring some friggin heat! Teams can't convert 3rd and 9 passes if you bring 7 men at the QB. The pass rushers get there before the WRs even have time to get 9 yards down the field. It is not rocket science.

This is true and I beleive they want to apply the pressure "organically" - meaning with your front three.

[Vicious89x]

What is it with you and the name-calling? What are you? 12?

Excellent response.

Having a team laden with talent, and an easy schedule... what has Mangini done to impress you this year? Clearly, Titans will be your response.

[Scott Dierking]

100% right on!!!

The self scouting problem drives me nuts.

Mangini and Schotty fall onto a recipe that will work for 2 games with great success, and then seem absolutely befuddled when some other coach will have the gaul to put in a plan to stop what they want to do.

It takes this staff 2 games hitting their head against a wall to figure out they can't go to that well anymore.

it really is frustrating watching.

[Magnus Malax]

That is totally *ss backwards though. Everyone knows that the best way to hide inefficiencies in your secondary is by bringing pressure at the QB and not giving him and his WRs enough time to pick on your weakness.

You can't ask any NFL CB to cover any NFL WR for more than 4-5 seconds. It is impossible. Your pass rush needs to get to the opposing QB before the secondary's coverage has time to break down.

If you rush 3 and drop 8 into zone coverage (which we always do), you allow the WRs to release freely off the line into their passing routes, find holes in the zone and settle there while simultaneously giving the opposing QB all the time in the world to go through his progressions and find the receiver who found the whole in the zone.

They say that insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. Well, that is Mangini with our pass defense. Hasn't it been proven that 3 men rushing and 8 in coverage is not working? Why keep expecting a different result?

Bring some friggin heat! Teams can't convert 3rd and 9 passes if you bring 7 men at the QB. The pass rushers get there before the WRs even have time to get 9 yards down the field. It is not rocket science.

I won't disagree with this. Good things happen to the Jets (for the most part) when we've blitzed. When Ellis scored and we took the lead, Buffalo had to throw. We brought pressure and Revis got a pick.

Another play that comes to mind is the pick-six by Elam in Buffalo. Edwards was under pressure and got flattened.

[Thai Jet]

This thread actually is quite useful. It's proving Mangini to be what he is, a clown.

Now that was just plain mean .

[JMJ]

This is true and I beleive they want to apply the pressure "organically" - meaning with your front three.

They want to apply pressure with our front 3? 3 rushers vs. 5 offensive lineman? Just saying it out loud sounds silly and the results prove it to be sillier than it even sounds.

Why Mangini can't see, admit, and then fix the error of his ways is beyond me.

[Thai Jet]

I won't disagree with this. Good things happen to the Jets (for the most part) when we've blitzed. When Ellis scored and we took the lead, Buffalo had to throw. We brought pressure and Revis got a pick.

Another play that comes to mind is the pick-six by Elam in Buffalo. Edwards was under pressure and got flattened.

I'm all for more blitzes . I hate that freaking 3 man rush.

[SMC]

If you rush 3 and drop 8 into zone coverage (which we always do), you allow the WRs to release freely off the line into their passing routes, find holes in the zone and settle there while simultaneously giving the opposing QB all the time in the world to go through his progressions and find the receiver who found the whole in the zone.

When not giving up the underneath stuff with ease because all the defenders are running deep, what we always see is a receiver catch the ball with 3 to 4 Jets in the vacinity and Rhodes pumping his fist in frustration at the reception.

That happens at least 4 times a game. It makes me laugh every time in a gallows humor kinda' way.

[Vicious89x]

Now that was just plain mean .

I should've put

[Scott Dierking]

When not giving up the underneath stuff with ease because all the defenders are running deep, what we always see is a receiver catch the ball with 3 to 4 Jets in the vacinity and Rhodes pumping his fist in frustration at the reception.

That happens at least 4 times a game. It makes me laugh every time in a gallows humor kinda' way.

And the pounding of the turf. Don't forget the pounding of the turf.

That secondary is confused out there.

[CTM]

This is true and I beleive they want to apply the pressure "organically" - meaning with your front three.

So rushing 3 against 5 is a sound strategy now?

.. This is 100% about Mangini not wanting to get Plaxico'd or Kevin Curtis'd . He doesn't want to have a another short route go for a long TD cause of a missed tackle. He thinks that if he can increase the number of plays an offense runs it will increase the likelihood that the screw up and have to punt or turn it over. He knows (or knew) that teams couldn't run on us because or Jenkins so the worst case scenario is they drive down the field into the red zone where it becomes increasingly difficult to throw into an 8 man zone. (Cassell's troubles in the redzone in the first half was probably the biggest reason we beat you)

And it works sometimes. TN dropped a ton of passes, Losman was high on a lot of balls. Cassel couldn't convert 3 times in FG range in the first half, etc....

His style is meek and chicken like, he is the Mangina

[JMJ]

When not giving up the underneath stuff with ease because all the defenders are running deep, what we always see is a receiver catch the ball with 3 to 4 Jets in the vacinity and Rhodes pumping his fist in frustration at the reception.

That happens at least 4 times a game. It makes me laugh every time in a gallows humor kinda' way.

A quarterback in duress because he is facing a fierce pass rush, with defenders in his face, throwing on the run, etc. against tight, man bump-n-run coverage makes mistakes. Hell, you could even say he is forced into mistakes.

You give any NFL QB 5+ seconds in the pocket to calmly go through his reads he is going to find an open receiver.

It ... is ... not ... brain surgery! Mangini needs to get his head out of his *ss.

[Thai Jet]

This is true and I beleive they want to apply the pressure "organically" - meaning with your front three.

Well that IS the perfect plan on paper. Our problem is that the 3 man rush is NOT getting the job done. He needs to make adjustments.

[SMC]

And the pounding of the turf. Don't forget the pounding of the turf.

That secondary is confused out there.

I forgot the pounding the turf.

It's comical watching them.

[Vicious89x]

Mangini wants the other team to make a mistake so he looks like a genius rather then blitz and get caught on it. Everything with him is "safe". I think it's just my personality... if I'm in a fight, I wanna bloody a guys face till he submits... not wait and try to parry his punches to land in my shots here and there and wear him down. I want to take away my opponents will to compete.

[JMJ]

SMC,

Can I be a ranking officer in the MHC?

[Magnus Malax]

Excellent response.

Having a team laden with talent, and an easy schedule... what has Mangini done to impress you this year? Clearly, Titans will be your response.

That's more like it.

What has he done to impress me?

1) Took on a new QB with less than a month to go to opening day and got him assimilated to the team

2) Took a 4-12 team that was unwatchable and unable to tackle and has it poised for the playoffs. As much as he may "limit his talent's success" there are certainly instances where the players simply don't make the play that they're in position to make. That's a whole other thread.

3) Three division wins on the road. At New England, for one.

4) What's not to be impressed with the Tennessee win? It's as dominant a performance as we've had in a difficult building to play in

5) Saw the talent in Calvin Pace and talked Kris Jenkins into the program. Make no mistake. Boom or bust, Tannenbaum is a cap guy. Eric is the one who sees the talent.

6) Consistently forces time management issues for his opponent. Jauron got baited into a pass with 2;06 left and BB* was schooled and used up his time outs as well.

7)Keeps a tight-lipped locker room. Don't hear all sorts of unprofessional "TO-Witten-Romo" garbage.

8) Last game notwithstanding...very good return teams. Steady special teams.

9) Cut Ben Graham. You may laugh at this or scratch your head but I think that cutting a guy that you have a long history with is undoubtedly very difficult to do. It showed me that EM values the bigger picture enough to cut someone that he likes. Graham wasn't cutting it.

10) You either love it or hate it but I personally like the calm demeanor. He doesn't have that "Pete Carroll quizzical look" on his face all the time.

11) Throwing deep on fourth and 1 against Arizona and Tennessee.

Is that okay? Am I allowed to be impressed to some degree?

OK...things I want him to do differently.

1) Bring the pain. No more three and four man rushes. (see Dallas vs NYG last week and P'burgh just about any week)

2) Save whatever nuance you have set out for your opponent for the second half and hit 'em with something exciting.

3) Thomas Jones = bellcow; use him

4) I wanted a speed receiver and another legitimate hitter in the back seven.

5) Consistency. Isn't that what we all strive for anyway?

[SMC]

A quarterback in duress because he is facing a fierce pass rush, with defenders in his face, throwing on the run, etc. against tight, man bump-n-run coverage makes mistakes. Hell, you could even say he is forced into mistakes.

You give any NFL QB 5+ seconds in the pocket to calmly go through his reads he is going to find an open receiver.

It ... is ... not ... brain surgery! Mangini needs to get his head out of his *ss.

It's fascinating, isn't it?

Coverage sacks don't lead to turnovers, pressure does. It really is simple. Fans and media lauded Spagnola last year about it, but it wasn't rocket science. It's not like he devised the 1990s Giants SB game plan. He simply brought pressure from different points which confused Brady and the Oline and forced throws.

The thing is, people say that "no QB likes pressure." It hasn't nothing to do with the QB being meek. There's a lot of tough QBs out there. But as you mentioned, pressure cuts down the QBs reaction time. He wants to throw the best possible ball so his receiver can make a reception. No QB wants to throw a duck because he's getting hit. That's why the QB rushes his throw in the face of pressure.