At A Crossroads...

[Magnus Malax]

I come onto this board and read a lot more than I post. I tend to like this board best because I find that I can have actual debates here. Even if I disagree with someone like SMC, I like to think that at the end of the day even those that don't agree with me at least bring their "A" game to the debate.

With that said, I've taken a step back after this devastating loss and looked at what I believe and what those that I disagree with believe and there are things that bother me.

First and foremost...I expect full out effort next week. The only thing that can feel worse than this loss would be to have New England lose and the Jets mail it in.

I think that there are really two schools of thought that predominate this board with regard to this season: The first group believes that since we were 8-3, not making the playoffs would be a failure. The second group believes that we were a 9-7 or 10-6 team to begin with and that's better than last year. I'm not going to take either side. I think that both sides are correct. It's a matter of how you choose to look at it.

While this season and its' highs and lows have been complex, the one thing that continually enters my conscious thought is this: As Favre went, ultimately, so have gone the Jets. The NFL is clearly a QB run league and you'll only go as far as your quarterback play will allow. In this last disappointing month (and even before) our team's efficiency and performance has been directly tied to our QB play. I don't think that you can argue that.

It certainly isn't that simple. There is a serious problem with our defense. I think that Bob Sutton has to go. I agree that this coaching staff will change decidedly, the question is "how much?". As an admitted fan of the HC, I can say that I don't want to see him go; I just want to see the DC changed.

You could argue all you want about Brian Schottenheimer but today (in my opinion) was not on Schottenheimer. It was on Favre. Favre underthrew the ball constantly and did the ol' patented "run one way and throw up a duck the other way across your body for a pick". I'm sure that wasn't what Schottenheimer wanted to do. I thought that the play calling on offense was generally to my satisfaction. I'd like to have seen more touches for TJ and Leon but that doesn't really tell the story of what happened. Clowney was wide open. Favre underthrew him. While Schotty has struggled in some games, the ability to overcome sloppy play by #4 would be daunting for any coaching staff. I'm not saying there aren't things that should have been done differently by coaches and other players. This is just what I saw.

No matter what happens for the rest of this season though, the Jets are at a peculiar crossroads...

They got into bed with Brett Favre. That was "high risk, high reward". I wasn't sure that it needed to happen but suffice it to say that I think he's partly responsible for TJ being able to run this year in a way that I think that Chad wouldn't have allowed him to. A lot of people are upset at Chad's good year and how we'd be better with him. I don't agree. There's no guarantee that Chad would have been this good physically here in NY. You took a step back organization-wise to try and teach Favre the offense and it took a while. It STILL doesn't look like last year's pre-snap motion offense.

I don't want to see the HC fired but I also believe that you can't send your team into a season with a lame-duck head coach. I don't know that Brett Favre can continue to help this team because it seems that all he does is dig them a deeper hole week to week.

This team still has needs. We need a speed WR. We need a pass rush. We need at least another DB.

Sorry to ramble. I'm trying to keep from getting upset again. In the end, I think that everyone here is "correct" but a lot of the arguments are over what we can't agree on...and that's just a matter of what your personal philosophy and perspective are. The season isn't over but it sure as hell is on life-support and that's not a good feeling.

[BUM-KNEE]

Good post Magnus.

[Maxman]

The Jets set the expectations high. Maybe unrealistically so. With the Daniel Synder like off-season and all these pro-bowlers it seemed like they were capable of good things. After a victory over the 10 and 0 Titans the sky seemed to be the limit.

How quickly things can change.

[TNJet]

The Jets set the expectations high. Maybe unrealistically so. With the Daniel Synder like off-season and all these pro-bowlers it seemed like they were capable of good things. After a victory over the 10 and 0 Titans the sky seemed to be the limit.

How quickly things can change.

when you start reading your press clippings and dont have a coach. Mangini to the NCAA where he belongs.

[Magnus Malax]

when you start reading your press clippings and dont have a coach. Mangini to the NCAA where he belongs.

I will disagree and say a)I've witnessed the regard that is held for the coach by NFL people first hand and b)I don't think that you can say that they reached 8-3 despite the coach. You can't have it both ways. He deserves some credit in both successes and failures.

[Boynton Beach Jets]

The Jets set the expectations high. Maybe unrealistically so. With the Daniel Synder like off-season and all these pro-bowlers it seemed like they were capable of good things. After a victory over the 10 and 0 Titans the sky seemed to be the limit.

How quickly things can change.

Amazing how fast they change:badmood: Three weeks ago we have Super Bowl visions now we hope to back into the playoffs:1cry:

[Montreal Jet]

Is it Favre's fault that WR cannot get open?? And when they do is it his fault they drop catchable passes. Favre threw some horrendous ints this season but he also had no choice trying to force matters.

[JetsMan57]

Favre is finished. What I saw in the Denver game and today is a QB who wants no part of bad weather anymore. For his whole career the "Ice Man" would run around in snowy games and play like a little boy in his yard having a blast. Today he was a zombie out there. There is a reason why he was pushing to go to Minny (dome) and Tampa in the offseason

Im not going to kill the guy. We took a shot on him and it didnt work out. Now its time for both sides to move on.

[Magnus Malax]

Im not going to kill the guy. We took a shot on him and it didnt work out. Now its time for both sides to move on.

I think I'm done with the Favre experiment after this year too...problem is I'm not sure where we go from there. For all the people that smirk at the thought of Matt Cassel...don't. There have certainly been players that have jumped teams.

[PaJetFan]

I appreciate your insight into 'as Favre goes...so go the Jets'

and I also am glad to hear (AS MANY TIMES AS POSSIBLE) how obvious Favre's underthrows were! The Clowney play was the worst for me personally. He was so beautifully open and it would have bee the game changer we needed (particularly with Leon stymied by the snow.)

I am unabashedly angry and not afraid to spew it! God this was a terrible day!!!!! WHy again!!!!

[JetsMan57]

I think I'm done with the Favre experiment after this year too...problem is I'm not sure where we go from there. For all the people that smirk at the thought of Matt Cassel...don't. There have certainly been players that have jumped teams.

Jets should go young and try to develop a QB. Problem is witha ll the guys we brought in they really cant do that. We'll probaby bring in another vet if Favre retires. Like a Hasselbeck.

[RSJ]

This was not Favre's fault. I've heard the announcers say and I've seen first hand the lack of seperation the WR's got. Coles never played as fast as his 40 time and is not a deep threat. Ditto Cotchery, who I like more than Coles - but is still not a number one WR. Teams who respect other teams WR's do not blitz and Favre was blitzed early and often this season. I'm not sure of the cap situation - but if the Jets can make some minor changes, and make another run with Favre I would like to see it. Also Thomas Jones year had more to do with our OL than Favre. I was watching all year and all I saw was 8 men in the box and the JEts still getting good running lanes. The whol problem is the WR's on offense. I'm not sure how you solve that after guarenteeing Coles contract through next season.

[NJ]

As an admitted fan of the HC, I can say that I don't want to see him go; I just want to see the DC changed.

They got into bed with Brett Favre. That was "high risk, high reward".

I don't want to see the HC fired but I also believe that you can't send your team into a season with a lame-duck head coach.

Thats admirable you're posting tonight after the beating this team took and the many calls for the head of your friend Eric. You've eluded to first hand knowledge of this or that with Mangini since you first posted here and defend his actions so we can all assume you have some connect. Thats great. We all need friends and associates and I would probably be defending my friends and associates in the same way if the roles were reversed. I could not care less where you get your info on him. I don't need any first hand info - I have all the information I need by watching the Jets play football this year.

To say this game is on Favre and not Mangini's OC is an easy cop out as Favre missed some open targets that really hurt. Some guys dropped some real easy well thrown passes too. And what about the many occasion's where there was absolutely no one open? We dont have Moss and T.O. running routes but to think these guys just can't get open is crap. The OC adapts and changes to what the opposing D is doing and that's usually necessary to get guys open. Especially when you don't have Moss and T.O.

Mangini's OC didnt appear to do a lot of adjusting and gave us more of the same. Because thats what he does.

The guy who's really off the hook tonight is Sutton if Mangini was truly running the defense. If he wasn't - then they're both equally inept.

And I'm beginning to think differently about the value of showing emotion and meaning it on the sidelines. When Law made that play right in front of Mangini it would have maybe done something inspirational to high 5, hug, give a smack on the rump, etc...

No. Nothing. Just the gum chomping stare. I sometimes believe he's too busy thinking about a large pot roast with potatoes, carrots, and onions after the game.

He's the head coach. He's responsible for all activity on both sides of the ball. He delegates through cordinator's but he's the head coach. He's been loaded up with a lot of talent and had a relatively easy schedule. How many of his losses will play in the playoffs this post season? I think he want's to come off like he's Beli - but he ain't Beli - and thus far he aint a winner. I dont know if the experiment should continue.

Hey - we're all frustrated just Jets fans once again in disbelief.

[The Gun Of Bavaria]

Thats admirable you're posting tonight after the beating this team took and the many calls for the head of your friend Eric. You've eluded to first hand knowledge of this or that with Mangini since you first posted here and defend his actions so we can all assume you have some connect. Thats great. We all need friends and associates and I would probably be defending my friends and associates in the same way if the roles were reversed. I could not care less where you get your info on him. I don't need any first hand info - I have all the information I need by watching the Jets play football this year.

To say this game is on Favre and not Mangini's OC is an easy cop out as Favre missed some open targets that really hurt. Some guys dropped some real easy well thrown passes too. And what about the many occasion's where there was absolutely no one open? We dont have Moss and T.O. running routes but to think these guys just can't get open is crap. The OC adapts and changes to what the opposing D is doing and that's usually necessary to get guys open. Especially when you don't have Moss and T.O.

Mangini's OC didnt appear to do a lot of adjusting and gave us more of the same. Because thats what he does.

The guy who's really off the hook tonight is Sutton if Mangini was truly running the defense. If he wasn't - then they're both equally inept.

And I'm beginning to think differently about the value of showing emotion and meaning it on the sidelines. When Law made that play right in front of Mangini it would have maybe done something inspirational to high 5, hug, give a smack on the rump, etc...

No. Nothing. Just the gum chomping stare. I sometimes believe he's too busy thinking about a large pot roast with potatoes, carrots, and onions after the game.

He's the head coach. He's responsible for all activity on both sides of the ball. He delegates through cordinator's but he's the head coach. He's been loaded up with a lot of talent and had a relatively easy schedule. How many of his losses will play in the playoffs this post season? I think he want's to come off like he's Beli - but he ain't Beli - and thus far he aint a winner. I dont know if the experiment should continue.

Hey - we're all frustrated just Jets fans once again in disbelief.

POTW

[villain_the_foe]

This was not Favre's fault. I've heard the announcers say and I've seen first hand the lack of seperation the WR's got. Coles never played as fast as his 40 time and is not a deep threat. Ditto Cotchery, who I like more than Coles - but is still not a number one WR. Teams who respect other teams WR's do not blitz and Favre was blitzed early and often this season. I'm not sure of the cap situation - but if the Jets can make some minor changes, and make another run with Favre I would like to see it. Also Thomas Jones year had more to do with our OL than Favre. I was watching all year and all I saw was 8 men in the box and the JEts still getting good running lanes. The whol problem is the WR's on offense. I'm not sure how you solve that after guarenteeing Coles contract through next season.

What? First off, dont get me wrong. I'm a fan of Favre, but truth is truth. Favre has made some ridiculously bad decisions in regards to alot of his throws. Brett would have atleast 25 INTs if it wasnt for many defensive drops by some teams that we played. Bigger than that, you claim that our WR's dont get separation, and you're right...at the same time I havent seen Brett throw a pass in front of ANYONE since preseason. The football is always in a position to be picked off, not because the WR's are too slow, but because the ball was underthrown.

Granted, Coles is a bum, but look at the extrordinary catches that Cotch had this year, they would have been easy catches if favre would have put the football in front of the WR leading him. Instead, when WR's had some separation they ended up having to slow down and back track to get the ball, in essence competing for position with the defender for the ball. Favre was NOTHING like what we seen during anytime with him as a packer.

I cant front, I was fooled. but thats just being a Jet fan. We could have Peyton Manning here and we would still do no better than 10-6 for a season.

[RSJ]

What? First off, dont get me wrong. I'm a fan of Favre, but truth is truth. Favre has made some ridiculously bad decisions in regards to alot of his throws. Brett would have atleast 25 INTs if it wasnt for many defensive drops by some teams that we played. Bigger than that, you claim that our WR's dont get separation, and you're right...at the same time I havent seen Brett throw a pass in front of ANYONE since preseason. The football is always in a position to be picked off, not because the WR's are too slow, but because the ball was underthrown.

Granted, Coles is a bum, but look at the extrordinary catches that Cotch had this year, they would have been easy catches if favre would have put the football in front of the WR leading him. Instead, when WR's had some separation they ended up having to slow down and back track to get the ball, in essence competing for position with the defender for the ball. Favre was NOTHING like what we seen during anytime with him as a packer.

I cant front, I was fooled. but thats just being a Jet fan. We could have Peyton Manning here and we would still do no better than 10-6 for a season.

Look at what Favre did just last year with a real WR crew. Then look at what little Aarron Rodgers did with the same group. Favre is not the problem, neither is the OL. We are getting single coverage on the outside all day, our WR's just aren't good enough to get open. Favre has made some bad throws this season, no doubt - but he has eaten it or forced it a lot more times because our WR's just could not get open. Combine that with Coles not being interested and dropping passes left and right and there you have it.

[StillerPaul]

This is a very good thread MM. The thing that bothers me is that the Jets have beaten the better teams on their schedule but lost to alot of the weaker teams. How the hell that happened is way beyond me. That imo has to fall in the laps of the CS. It's the HC's job to get and keep these guys focused no matter the opponent and it looks as though it didn't happen. To lose to Seattle, Denver and San Fran all 3 with the playoffs and division title at stake is just not acceptable imo. Ya's should have AT LEAST won 2 of those.

I'll blame my older bro though. He jumped on your bandwagon last week and jinxed ya's. I'll make sure he gets a lump of coal this week.

[jetscott]

did anyone watch ratliff in the preseason? The kid looks damn good