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Brett Favre must go


Scott Dierking

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This was the ultimate square peg, round hole syndrome, when the Jets brough Favre here through what I believe was ulterior motives anyway.

Wayne Chrebet was called a mascot by Keyshawn Johnson, but really, Brett Favre is the ultimate Jet mascot. He is a figurehead to drive merchandising sales, soften the blow of PSLs and keep the Jets on the tips of the tongues of sports wags and on the back pages, regardless of how the Jets are actually performing.

But that is not the main reason why Favre must go. He just does not fit this offense.

The Jets did a marvelous job of reconstructing this team in the off-season. They went with a trenches first mentality and decided to be a physical team that could spit you in the eye and stare you down at the line scrimmage.

The Jets were hampered in this reconstruction by their wide out situations. It is not that they are bad wide outs, but they are both physical wideouts who have a difficult time creating separation from Cornerbacks. These wideouts need either heavy doses of play action (which has diminishing results) or exotic play calling (which is also limiting) in order to shake free in the secondary.

Let's take a look at the NFL and look at how receivers can break free if they are limited in terms of break away speed? What can shake a DB off and give him pause?

An athletic QB who can pass on the run and get to the edge. If you look at big broken plays in the NFL, they often occur with a mobile qb who threatens the edge, is able to improvise on a play, and cause a DB to hesitate and guess where the play may actually be going. Double moves and stop and starts are causing a lot of broken plays in NFL passing games.

Brett Favre represents NONE of that. He is limited in options once the play is in motion, DBs know they can rely on their first duty (pass coverage), and the WRs are stuck to like glue. That results in a statue of a qb who is limited in options, and plays are not able to be strung out.

First, Brett Favre must go. Then the Jets must find a qb who can threaten the edge, is mobile and can cause guessing by a defense once a play is in action.

With the Jets, once a play is in action, a defense has a decided advantage against the Jets. Options are limited.

If the Jets are going to keep this WR crew (and we are married to them), the QB style of this team must change. And Brett Favre is not that QB that can cause that change.

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Why not have a coaching staff that develops schemes that works to the strengths of the qb? Like in the Titan game quick slant passes etc I think Favre will retire if not why push him out the door when he can still play? Brett can move around the pocket enough to survive. And if Favre is to go I think slate would need to be cleaned starting with a new qb and coaching staff.

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Why not have a coaching staff that develops schemes that works to the strengths of the qb? Like in the Titan game quick slant passes etc I think Favre will retire if not why push him out the door when he can still play? Brett can move around the pocket enough to survive. And if Favre is to go I think slate would need to be cleaned starting with a new qb and coaching staff.

The Jets went to that quick slant game, with very good results, but teams adjusted to that. They are jamming WRs at the line and playing inside and out on teh WRs with safeties cheating up.

How do you beat that scheme? Threaten deep. Well, the Jets can't do that. Plan C?

The Jets don't have one.

QB's in this league that are making plays are ones that can throw on the run and move in teh pocket and threaten the edge somewhat. They improvise.

And it doesn't need to be an Olympic sprinter. Ben Roethlesberger, Tony Romo slide in teh pocket and allow a play to develop along. They create extra seconds.

Brett Favre is a pocket passer and a pass rush can zero in on a spot and not have to worry about lane control. We see it over and over again.

The Jet o-line is not horrible at pass blocking, they are just looking at teams pinning their ears back, because there is not detriment to doing that.

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Favre was fine up until a few weeks ago. SD hated this move from day one, so obviously he's going to be beating his chest now.

Fact of the matter is the defense couldnt stop anyone all season. Dont let yesterdays 13 point total fool you either, we couldnt stop the Seahawks. They controlled the line of scrimmage, and we let scab olineman protect a backup QB- zero sacks.

The defense sucked from day one. 3-4, 4-3, we havent a good defense since the 80's. Maybe 1998, but other than that the defense has sucked.

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The Jets went to that quick slant game, with very good results, but teams adjusted to that. They are jamming WRs at the line and playing inside and out on teh WRs with safeties cheating up.

How do you beat that scheme? Threaten deep. Well, the Jets can't do that. Plan C?

The Jets don't have one.

QB's in this league that are making plays are ones that can throw on the run and move in teh pocket and threaten the edge somewhat. They improvise.

And it doesn't need to be an Olympic sprinter. Ben Roethlesberger, Tony Romo slide in teh pocket and allow a play to develop along. They create extra seconds.

Brett Favre is a pocket passer and a pass rush can zero in on a spot and not have to worry about lane control. We see it over and over again.

The Jet o-line is not horrible at pass blocking, they are just looking at teams pinning their ears back, because there is not detriment to doing that.

Why can the Jets not go deep? Is Clowney not on the team? and why have the Jets not drafted a speed demon that any quarterback will need? more of a wr personnel issue

The Jets offensive line has played well but when your play calling is sh$t, your wrs are running 10 second routes it makes the job difficult for any qb. With this running game play action should be a killer but the Jets forgot how to play smash mouth football

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Favre was fine up until a few weeks ago. SD hated this move from day one, so obviously he's going to be beating his chest now.

Fact of the matter is the defense couldnt stop anyone all season. Dont let yesterdays 13 point total fool you either, we couldnt stop the Seahawks. They controlled the line of scrimmage, and we let scab olineman protect a backup QB- zero sacks.

The defense sucked from day one. 3-4, 4-3, we havent a good defense since the 80's. Maybe 1998, but other than that the defense has sucked.

Fact is, the defense gave up 13 points.

How many did the offense score? Is that supposed to fool me too?

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Favre is not washed up

He gave us lots of excitement during the season, and really had us as an elite teram after the Titans game

The coaching is the culprit

Bang on. I admit to being a Mangini fan and supporting him. Until yesterday. My eyes were wide open to the sheer and und utter ineptitude he has. He is lost.

This team has so much talent being wasted.

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Bang on. I admit to being a Mangini fan and supporting him. Until yesterday. My eyes were wide open to the sheer and und utter ineptitude he has. He is lost.

This team has so much talent being wasted.

Me too, dude

He had me until yesterday....what happened to the defense coming at the QB from every angle?

F-him...hit the road and turn into Bellichick somewhere else

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Why can the Jets not go deep? Is Clowney not on the team? and why have the Jets not drafted a speed demon that any quarterback will need? more of a wr personnel issue

The Jets offensive line has played well but when your play calling is sh$t, your wrs are running 10 second routes it makes the job difficult for any qb. With this running game play action should be a killer but the Jets forgot how to play smash mouth football

There are not many teams that can sit back there and pick apart teams from the pocket anymore-Arizona being a notable exception (watch them lately?).

Secondaries are pretty good in developing schemes these days and can stop offenses that are one dimensional. The Jets are one dimensional in athat there qb passes from the same spot 90% of the time. He is a sitting duck. In teh NFL, that is defendable.

Notice when Brett sprints out? Plays have been made. It gives a defense pause. Odf course, teh Jets could not live on that.

The game is changing as to what is successful. The Jets are stuck in the 80's.

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Much of what made Favre great once was his ability to keep a broken play alive. He could roll out & throw with the best of them, and often better than any of them. Now he's 2004 Testaverde.

Too many 3rd or 4th and 3-4 yards where there was enough protection to buy him time. Years ago, it was a no-brainer that he would have run a few yards for the first if an open receiver didn't present itself.

Instead what we are left with, essentially, is what we sought to erradicate ourselves from: an immobile pocket passer who cannot make all the throws. Sadly, this is what Favre had become.

The main difference between Pennington & Favre are twofold:

(1) Favre has a much stronger arm to get the ball to the receiver faster, particularly on mid-range routes & slants that we hardly see completed anyway.

(2) Pennington at least KNEW that he didn't have the arm to make certain throws. The checkdowns were maddening. But nothing is more maddening than passes in the secondary to no one.

There are a lot of first downs that he converted that would not have happened with a lesser-experienced or lesser-talented QB like Clemens. But at the same time, Clemens (bad as he's demonstrated himself to be in his opportunities) or even Ratliff would have bought many first downs with his feet. This OL is mostly built for run-blocking, not for giving the QB 6 seconds to stand in the pocket. And honestly, that is a tall order to ask of any OL.

But ultimately, what SD has alluded to is the damning truth: we (as fans) thought we had bought a franchise savior; the anti-Pennington who could slay mighty beasts with his cannon right arm. Sadly, what we were sold was a marketing mascot for PSL's & jerseys.

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Me too, dude

He had me until yesterday....what happened to the defense coming at the QB from every angle?

F-him...hit the road and turn into Bellichick somewhere else

The game was lost 6mins in when the Jets had 4th and 1 at the Seattle 2yd line and "Genius" kicks a field goal. Why not scream at your O-line, "I have no faith in you despite the amount of Pro-Bowlers and the AFC's best rusher on this team." He has lost the players, and he has lost me.

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Much of what made Favre great once was his ability to keep a broken play alive. He could roll out & throw with the best of them, and often better than any of them. Now he's 2004 Testaverde.

Too many 3rd or 4th and 3-4 yards where there was enough protection to buy him time. Years ago, it was a no-brainer that he would have run a few yards for the first if an open receiver didn't present itself.

Instead what we are left with, essentially, is what we sought to erradicate ourselves from: an immobile pocket passer who cannot make all the throws. Sadly, this is what Favre had become.

The main difference between Pennington & Favre are twofold:

(1) Favre has a much stronger arm to get the ball to the receiver faster, particularly on mid-range routes & slants that we hardly see completed anyway.

(2) Pennington at least KNEW that he didn't have the arm to make certain throws. The checkdowns were maddening. But nothing is more maddening than passes in the secondary to no one.

There are a lot of first downs that he converted that would not have happened with a lesser-experienced or lesser-talented QB like Clemens. But at the same time, Clemens (bad as he's demonstrated himself to be in his opportunities) or even Ratliff would have bought many first downs with his feet. This OL is mostly built for run-blocking, not for giving the QB 6 seconds to stand in the pocket. And honestly, that is a tall order to ask of any OL.

But ultimately, what SD has alluded to is the damning truth: we (as fans) thought we had bought a franchise savior; the anti-Pennington who could slay mighty beasts with his cannon right arm. Sadly, what we were sold was a marketing mascot for PSL's & jerseys.

The margin for error with this offense is slim, slim, slim.

Everything must click in terms of protection, in terms of timing in terms of execution.

That is hard in the NFL these days. The other guys get paid too.

Once a play is under way, the Jets have no Plan B and of course not a PLan C. That is a difficult way to attack in this NFL

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The game was lost 6mins in when the Jets had 4th and 1 at the Seattle 2yd line and "Genius" kicks a field goal. Why not scream at your O-line, "I have no faith in you despite the amount of Pro-Bowlers and the AFC's best rusher on this team." He has lost the players, and he has lost me.

He wanted to play the field position game, trailing by a touchdown, in the 4th quarter. The downside to not converting that 4th & 1 is Seattle taking over 98 yards from the Jets endzone in a blizzard.

They could have recovered from that. Ultimately, it cost us 4 points. And then lining up Feely a 2nd time would have been for the tie instead of lining him up to cut a lead to 4.

But the truth is that 4 points should not have mattered. Seattle sucks. Their defense sucks. Their offense sucks. And that FG represented all the points we'd score for the game. Pitiful.

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You nailed it.

And it's such a shame as when was the last time our Jets had this much talent? Seriously, think about it. Christ, even Herm would do better with these guys! Okay, maybe not, but 90% of all NFL coaches have this Division won 2 weeks ago with these guys.

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The margin for error with this offense is slim, slim, slim.

Everything must click in terms of protection, in terms of timing in terms of execution.

That is hard in the NFL these days. The other guys get paid too.

Once a play is under way, the Jets have no Plan B and of course not a PLan C. That is a difficult way to attack in this NFL

Agreed.

We used to attack the margin of error strategy with Pennington as well. So many 3rd down conversions necessary with all those dumpoffs. Miss a pass, or miss breaking a tackle (since we always threw in front of the first-down marker), and it's a punt.

It's for different reasons this year, but in the end the underlying reason still rings true. Too many eggs in one basket. Too many playing cards required to build this house. And too easy for a defense to find the loose one to yank out & cause it to fall down.

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This needs to be said. Chad took the fault for all that was wrong with this offense when he was here. I blamed him too. We were seeing 8 and 9 man fronts all the time because Chad had no arm. Now with Brett we are seeing the real truth, we are still seeing 8 and 9 man fronts because nobody respects Coles and Cotch. On top of that our play calling leaves a lot to be desired.

Chad wasnt faultless here, he had his fair share of boneheaded plays, but in Miami with receivers who can actually separate and a coaching staff who actually has a clue he has really vindicated himself. Chad hasnt looked this good since 2002.

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Favre is not washed up

He gave us lots of excitement during the season, and really had us as an elite teram after the Titans game

The coaching is the culprit

you're out of your mind if you think that Brett isnt part of the problem. Brett Favre couldnt throw the deep ball in front of the WR this entire season, and thats horrible because possibly the fastest WR we have is Clowney and Mangini didnt play him. His two best throws that I seen this year, no lie both came in the preseason.

Granted, I was very excited about this season...but now that this season is virtually over I can look back and see that there were PLENTY of decisions that Brett made this year that was OBVIOUSLY bad ones. Brett would have around 25 INTs this year if it wasnt for alot of Drops by defenders this year. Thats ****ing horrible.

Now, Brett is known for throwing INTs because he constently throws the ball. But you cant throw 20 INTs this year and NOT have 300 yard games too. Honestly, and I can care less what ANYONE SAYS....Chad Pennington had a better year than Brett did this year given his position and the talent around him.

I was the first to chop Chads head off, but this will teach me to be careful what I wish for because I just might get it.

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This is a terrific thread. Just about everyone here is making great points. The problem is partly Favre's arm and moreso the overall AWFUL coaching. The coaching problem is twofold I believe, both in the personel decisions ie...who is active / inactive and how they are used (Clowney - not enough, Gholston - obviously inept, Leon Washington - NOT ENOUGH TOUCHES) as well as the in game coaching strategies ie...lame / soft defenses, horrible down / distance decisions and when and how many points to go for.

The real question is...How could so many mistakes be made and how could this team be this inept in a year when we are SO LOADED with talent and SO HEALTHY??????!!!!!!!

You can't blame just one person. Maybe the franchise really is cursed, or maybe the whole attitude of the franchise really is focused more on making $ than winning or a philosophy. I've never really considered those filthy possibilities to be reality, but now I am truly considering a curse/ ulterior franchise motive and I'm questioning why I should bother to continue being a Jets fan. I know its sad, but I just can't make any sense of it.

I don't think I can waste so much time / money / sanity on this team anymore.

Thanks for listening to my venting!

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Agreed.

We used to attack the margin of error strategy with Pennington as well. So many 3rd down conversions necessary with all those dumpoffs. Miss a pass, or miss breaking a tackle (since we always threw in front of the first-down marker), and it's a punt.

It's for different reasons this year, but in the end the underlying reason still rings true. Too many eggs in one basket. Too many playing cards required to build this house. And too easy for a defense to find the loose one to yank out & cause it to fall down.

Yup Yup..

Favre's gotta go too..

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Why can the Jets not go deep? Is Clowney not on the team? and why have the Jets not drafted a speed demon that any quarterback will need? more of a wr personnel issue

The Jets offensive line has played well but when your play calling is sh$t, your wrs are running 10 second routes it makes the job difficult for any qb. With this running game play action should be a killer but the Jets forgot how to play smash mouth football

Favre was short on 3 passes where guys were open deep yesterday. maybe he can't throw it deep anymore? they're daring him to right now and he can't get it done.

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I'd like to see this coaching staff pull out the 2006 playbook. Put Brad Smith under center on 3rd downs. Mix it up.

Do something---ANYTHING---different.

Thats the thing... its not different its washed up old **** that teams have film on... this CS has run out of fresh ideas and just gave up trying...

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One of the main things about getting Favre that no-one ever shut about was having this "anything can happen" offense or the "game is never over" with Favre at QB.

Anyone who tells me they thought Favre was going to drive down the field for a TD against the Seahawks in the 4th quarter when we needed it is lying. The game was over and it was painfully obvious that Favre was done.

I posted after the Denver game that this offense had been exposed, they have no air attack away from the short passing game. Teams figured that out after the Titans game.

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Here is the reality of things if this team does not make the playoffs-Any organization that would have had this type of fold would look to shake things up, and energize the fanbase again, at least in an attempt at PR.

-A shake means that either Mangini, Favre or both are gone.

-This means that if Woody is interested in the almighty dollar, over the results of his team, he will leave things status quo.

-If it comes down between Mangini and Favre, I would much rather it be Favre. Mangini still has room (actually acres of room) to grow. Maybe, just maybe he learns the errors of his ways and a new D coordinator helps take pressure off him.

-Favre is what he is. That is not a bad thing, but it is a bad thing in the way the NY Jets are constructed. He is a bad fit, and keeping him would saddle any new coach.

-A protracted Favre announcement will frustrate this team, stymie them in movement that is needed for the off-season, and dissapoint fans

-Favre needs to either retire quickly, or the Jets need to say "thank you for the increased attention" we will no longer be requiring your services in 2009.

This needs to play out quickly, without the usual Brett drama.

Given a choice of losing either Manini or Favre, for me the decision is real easy.

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