Carl Banks former player

[JohnnyHector]

Going for it doesn't necessarily show faith... sometimes a coach has to protect the players from themselves. taking the points preserves positive momentum. it gets you something where you could have gotten nothing... coming away with nothing sets the crowd on fire.

we say go for it as if we know for sure they would have gotten it. and as if that TD changes the outcome of the game. that's alot of if's. it's possible they go for it, get the 7 and still lose 13-10.

the game is bigger than a couple of drives. the problem wasn't the decision making it was the offense that only got in the red zone 2x.

That's all well and good, but the Jets are clearly a team that peaks, offensively, on their first drive (another sign of gross incompetence by Schottenheimer, as only his scripted drives look like they are well-planned). As soon as I saw Mangini mutter "field goal", I cringed.

[SoFlaJets]

i hte to say it but i'd almost rather see Ratliff at this point. Favre hasn't been a championship level player for years. He can't learn new plays, he can't adjust and the league figured out the Jets simple offense weeks ago.

the only problem with that thinking Bit is this: we ALL friggin know that if Mangini is here (prolly) that Kellen Frickin-just-as-mediocre-as-the-head coach Clemens will be the starting quarterback and NOT the obviously better Ratliff

[CTM]

ok let's say JonE and CTM are the coach, they say GO FOR IT 2x and let's even say it works, twice. 7 points on the opening drive and 3 points on a 50 yard FG.

where does that leave them? 10 points doesn't win the game.

The point is that going for it and getting it changes everything that happens afterwards. I truly believe that, and Banks said the same thing in hsi review of the game and he choose his words very carefully because he's friends with Manigni

[Lil Bit Special]

Do you remember the San Fran game

SSDD

And what happens when we get stuffed on 4th down... we've seen that before too...

Players didnt play and coaches didnt coach. Everyone sucked. That one drive to start the game didnt determine whether we won or lost. 3 god damn points against Seattle is pathetic and for people to claim that Mangini showed no confidence.. guess what? He was right. They sucked yesterday. They validated him. And if our players can be hurt by that lack of confidence they shouldnt be on this team.

[JohnnyHector]

If our players are that big of pu$$ies then they shouldnt be playing football. We moved the ball down field pretty well that first drive. There is no reason to believe we would suck after that.

Fact is the coaching sucked and the players didnt execute and make plays in all 3 aspects of the game. Everyone on the jets sideline is to blame for the loss. And since Mangini cannot get this team to play hard for him he must go.

Look, I'm not saying that the players were sulking on the sidelines, but there is definitely a psychological aspect, in any line of work, when the person in charge has faith in you to get something done. The last sentence you wrote is part of that, in fostering an environment where you have players who would run through a wall for you... I can't see that with Mangini.

There is reason to believe the offense would suck after the first drive... did you watch the Buffalo game? Well-scripted first drive and then the head-scratching playcalling sets in.

[Barton]

ok let's say JonE and CTM are the coach, they say GO FOR IT 2x and let's even say it works, twice. 7 points on the opening drive and 3 points on a 50 yard FG.

where does that leave them? 10 points doesn't win the game. the offense was garbage yesterday and YES it goes to the coach but it also goes to the QB. im basically sick and tired of the Brett Favre show. the magic is gone and it's clear why GB felt they needed to move on. he's better than anyone we would have had (yes even Chad) but he doesn't allow the coaches to call all their plays or throw in new plays as the season progresses. That's not going to win titles.

to paraphrase dennis green We are who we thought we are - a 9 or 10 win team at best. to expect more is to be delusional.

Going for it and getting the TD changes the rest of the game.

Bit, WAKE UP.

[JonEJet]

to paraphrase dennis green We are who we thought we are - a 9 or 10 win team at best. to expect more is to be delusional.

Woulda coulda shoulda

This team has a coach that was so inept yesterday, his job has to be in question

From his 1st decision to kick the FG in the 1st quarter, to the last decision to go for it on their 20 with 3 timeouts left, and the 2 minute warning.

Our coach needs to be accountable. Is he? I dunno. All i heard was him blaming James Dearth!!

F-him

[Lil Bit Special]

Look, I'm not saying that the players were sulking on the sidelines, but there is definitely a psychological aspect, in any line of work, when the person in charge has faith in you to get something done. The last sentence you wrote is part of that, in fostering an environment where you have players who would run through a wall for you... I can't see that with Mangini.

There is reason to believe the offense would suck after the first drive... did you watch the Buffalo game? Well-scripted first drive and then the head-scratching playcalling sets in.

I've seen us get stonewalled on 4th down before too. I felt it was the right call at the time. You take the points when you can get them. However, looking back it was a bad call and we should have gone for it.

And they wont go through a wall for Mangini and he makes too many calls that fail to work. He has to go.

[Lil Bit Special]

Woulda coulda shoulda

This team has a coach that was so inept yesterday, his job has to be in question

From his 1st decision to kick the FG in the 1st quarter, to the last decision to go for it on their 20 with 3 timeouts left, and the 2 minute warning.

Our coach needs to be accountable. Is he? I dunno. All i heard was him blaming James Dearth!!

F-him

I can forgive him for those. It works, great. It doesnt hes an idiot It's every other play, offense and defense, where they werent prepared to play.

Judgement calls can be debated all day, but he failed his team and the fans by not having them prepared with a decent game plan. A decent game plan wins that game. Seattle was nothing special yesterday. We beat ourselves.

[Green DNA]

In a must win game, you have to punch a 3-11 team in the mouth and get the TD there. If they were playing the Ravens or Steelers D then maybe you take the points. The fact is that Mangini played it conservatively against a bottom feeder, just as he did against San Fran. The good teams impose their will on the opponent, while avarage teams take what the other team gives them. Unfortunately, the Jets are one of those average teams.

[Matt39]

Fact of the matter is, the defense didnt record one 3 and out all game. A TD or a fg on the opening drive wouldnt have changed that.

Our defense is just beyond pathetic.

[redman81]

All this debate over whether or not to go for it on 4th and 1 in 1st qtr. I can see both sides of the argument. I feel like with the conditions the way they were starting to become, and on the road, you take the 3 points. At home def. muscle up and go for it. The bigger decision was the change to a punt. Number one, where are you as a coach to not see by 2 sec. on play clock that the snap was no where near ready, to step in and call a timeout. Save yourself the penalty and those 5 yards. That being said, you had just seen your kicker hit one easily good from 55 if not close to 60. Let him back out there to make it 10-6. That would have made a world of difference in play calling the rest of the game. The offense would have less pressure on it being down by just one score, and they would def. have punted on 4th a 4 later, Seattle probably never would have reached 13 points. So, that last Jets drive might look alot different being down just 10-6 with under 2:00 min. left, instead of down 2 scores.

[aec4]

i don't get why it's such a big deal. it looked like for a while that 3-0 would be good enough to win, and if it isn't, not like 7-0 gets it done either. ditto 10-6 if Mangini lets em go for the 50 yard FG. however you slice it offense has to come up with more points, and I don't think B Favre can adjust or learn new plays at this stage of the game.

Couldn't agree more. I think if Mangini knew that would be the last time we were in the red zone (was it? I think so), he probably would have went, but who knew.... Neither that FG, or not going for the FG cost us the game. Playing like crap did. Dropping passes. Leon washington running like a girl didn't help either. (He looked scared of the snow). Coles the entire season has hurt... etc etc. Not blaming it just on those guys just the things that were on the top of my head.

[CTM]

Couldn't agree more. I think if Mangini knew that would be the last time we were in the red zone (was it? I think so), he probably would have went, but who knew.... Neither that FG, or not going for the FG cost us the game. Playing like crap did. Dropping passes. Leon washington running like a girl didn't help either. (He looked scared of the snow). Coles the entire season has hurt... etc etc. Not blaming it just on those guys just the things that were on the top of my head.

I know Carl Banks professional experience pales in comparison to your own, but he seems to think Mangini set a bad tone for the players there.

[aec4]

I know Carl Banks professional experience pales in comparison to your own, but he seems to think Mangini set a bad tone for the players there.

and the nonsense continues. You have to be a moron to keep going back on that... either that, or nothing better to say. I would think Carl Banks knows more than I do.. but I am entitled to an opinion too. I certainly respect his.

[CTM]

and the nonsense continues. You have to be a moron to keep going back on that... either that, or nothing better to say. I would think Carl Banks knows more than I do.. but I am entitled to an opinion too. I certainly respect his.

As we all are, which makes your I was a professional athlete thread all the more ridiculous..

fwiw, it's only ball busting, hopefully no hard feelings..

[aec4]

As we all are, which makes your I was a professional athlete thread all the more ridiculous..

fwiw, it's only ball busting, hopefully no hard feelings..

Actually, it makes you carrying on and on about it more ridiculous to be frank.

[BP]

Actually, it makes you carrying on and on about it more ridiculous to be frank.

I kind of like it, frankly.

[CTM]

Actually, it makes you carrying on and on about it more ridiculous to be frank.

Lol. Yea right. let me get this straight, you started a thread a few weeks ago opining that your experience as a professional athlete somehow made your opinions more credible then anyone elses. Today you asserted that you are entitled to a differing opinion then Carl Banks, despite his obvious advantages in terms of applicable experience and the insights which would come with it, and I'm the ridiculous one for pointing out the inconisistancy?

Ok.

[BaumerJet]

Better is not even what we need.

Favre is a sitting duck back there and easy to game plan. He does not fit this offense.

Look at what Flacco and Ryan did for their teams this year.

Scott, the whole reason they have been getting to Favre on these last 5 games is because we have a Offensive Coordinator who (Even when it was Chad Pennington) goes conservative like a deer in the headlights. He can not coordinate the changes from a run offense to a passing one that would allow a moderate, let alone legendary QB audible if he has to.

Perfect example was week 6 against the Bengals:

• Favre is forsed into a constant run or dink & dunk drive
  
  • He hates what is being given to him over the headphones
    
    • Calls time out & argues with Mangini
      
      • Mangini gives him full range beyond what Shottenheimer is giving him for a playbook
        
      • We score on the drive
        

Another example of this poor coaching can clearly be seen every Sunday on SNY's JETS-24/7. Mangini appears to want to more be their "Buddy" and less their Coach!

What the hell is that? - They need leadership & disipline, not "Hi Dad!"

In better terms, I don't think it's what's on the field - I think it's who's minding the store!

[BUM-KNEE]

Couldn't agree more. I think if Mangini knew that would be the last time we were in the red zone (was it? I think so), he probably would have went, but who knew.... Neither that FG, or not going for the FG cost us the game. Playing like crap did. Dropping passes. Leon washington running like a girl didn't help either. (He looked scared of the snow). Coles the entire season has hurt... etc etc. Not blaming it just on those guys just the things that were on the top of my head.

I think he wouldve went for it too if he knew the offense was going to be so inept. In fact, Favre pretty much said they had no reason to think they wouldnt be back down there to score again.

You take the 3 points there in my opinion, but you also take the 3 points later instead of putting the punting unit out there. Still, those points wouldnt have been enough, the offense needed to make some plays instead of penalties.

[gangreenman]

hahahaha...

Banks just said the team needs screaming and yelling this week...

:rl:

WHAT???

He OBVIOUSLY never played Single A ball then... What make him an expert??

[jason423]

Here is my take on that early FG decision. In a game where the weather is bad and the conditions about to get worse you know that a game is going to be very low scoring. Chances for putting 7 on the board are very few, which I think pretty much held true as the Jets only had 1 opportunity and the Seahawks only had 2. In a game where the weather is this bad 7 points is worth alot more than simply 4 on the scoreboard. It is going to dictate that the other team either put together at least 3 drives into FG territory or leave them no room for error is they do drive the field. One touchdown is a major advantage, IMO. Even if you do not make you have backed them up on their own goal. Worst case scenario is you get the ball back inside the Seahawk 50 if you have any faith in your defense and at worst get your field goal attempt if you can move the ball just a bit. Best case is obviously a fumble leading to 7. You also give your kick returner an opportunity to get a big one as they almost always have an advantage on punt returns because the defenders can not stop in the weather.

Did that lose them the game? No. The penalty spree on the next drive is really what killed the team. I dont think that totally brought the crowd to life(they were busier playing in the snow than watching the game) but it gave the Seahawks players much needed confidence which eventually brought the Seahawks fans to life. When you jump all over bad football teams early(us vs St Louis, NE vs Arizona) the game is over. When you let them hang around (us vs every other lousy team on our schedule) you end up with a long struggle that you could lose and this is why we have lost so many games this year.

[aec4]

I kind of like it, frankly.

you would, but the members of the < 75 IQ group like you tend to like that sort of thing.

[aec4]

Lol. Yea right. let me get this straight, you started a thread a few weeks ago opining that your experience as a professional athlete somehow made your opinions more credible then anyone elses. Today you asserted that you are entitled to a differing opinion then Carl Banks, despite his obvious advantages in terms of applicable experience and the insights which would come with it, and I'm the ridiculous one for pointing out the inconisistancy?

Ok.

Yes, because you totally took the message I was making and CHANGED it.

I was told by a poster that I had absolutely NO CLUE what went on in aprofessional lockerroom (ecurb to call him out). I do. I certainly do not know as much as Carl Banks.

I never said that you can't have an opinion if you didn't play professional sports. That's the BPs of the world just changing things because they can. This is their source of fun, so let them have it. However, read things for yourself THEN judge.

[Lil Bit Special]

Yes, because you totally took the message I was making and CHANGED it.

I was told by a poster that I had absolutely NO CLUE what went on in aprofessional lockerroom (ecurb to call him out). I do. I certainly do not know as much as Carl Banks.

I never said that you can't have an opinion if you didn't play professional sports. That's the BPs of the world just changing things because they can. This is their source of fun, so let them have it. However, read things for yourself THEN judge.

at least take comfort in the fact that thread has a great chance at Thread of the Year.

[aec4]

at least take comfort in the fact that thread has a great chance at Thread of the Year.

couldn't care less either way to be honest..

[SMC]

couldn't care less either way to be honest..

At least you wrote it correctly.

It's annoying when someone writes "I could care less."

[Lil Bit Special]

couldn't care less either way to be honest..

well Im still voting for ya. In multiple categories.

[aec4]

At least you wrote it correctly.

It's annoying when someone writes "I could care less."

If I could care less, it would mean I actually care.

[aec4]

well Im still voting for ya. In multiple categories.

works for me.. Im glad to win, any category.

[Lil Bit Special]

works for me.. Im glad to win, any category.

Well I'll do my best....

[Jetsfan_always]

If our players are that big of pu$$ies then they shouldnt be playing football. We moved the ball down field pretty well that first drive. There is no reason to believe we would suck after that.

Fact is the coaching sucked and the players didnt execute and make plays in all 3 aspects of the game. Everyone on the jets sideline is to blame for the loss. And since Mangini cannot get this team to play hard for him he must go.

The issue isn't so much whether to kick or go for it, it's why couldn't the coaching staff get the players to maintain their momentum after that drive.

With the Jets coaching staff, its the same old BS, the other team makes adjustments, and the Jets don't/can't. If the team isn't getting pressure on the QB rushing 3 men, do they adapt? No, of course not - that's why crud like Seneca et al, and 3rd-string offensive lines look good against the Jets.

I watched the Giants from the second half forward, and they played totally different from the Jets; aggressive, in your face, send 7 guys if necessary but GET IN THE QB'S FACE. NOT sit back and give the guy all day to throw, hoping a CB will be able to chase the WRs for 10-12 seconds, that's just bad coaching. Bend don't break is just stupid football, and why any coach, but seemingly so many Jet head coaches, seem to prefer it.

[Jetsfan_always]

I disagree... the team is reeling after turning in three straight miserable performances, and they're on the road, in bad weather, against a (supposedly) inferior opponent. By not going for it in that spot, you're sending a message to your offense that you lack confidence in their ability to convert and tells your opponent that you're scared.

Agreed, in a normal situation, the right play call w/b kick the FG, but as an aggressive move, to show you believe in your players, and the fact that Seattle on paper was a weak team with a substitute OL, and shouldn't have been able to offer much resistance moving forward, indicated the smarter play would have been to go for it, with a Richardson run up the gut.

But winners make that gutsy call, because they know to win you need to be aggressive, not in a pass prevent defense for 4 quarters.

[Lil Bit Special]

The issue isn't so much whether to kick or go for it, it's why couldn't the coaching staff get the players to maintain their momentum after that drive.

With the Jets coaching staff, its the same old BS, the other team makes adjustments, and the Jets don't/can't. If the team isn't getting pressure on the QB rushing 3 men, do they adapt? No, of course not - that's why crud like Seneca et al, and 3rd-string offensive lines look good against the Jets.

I watched the Giants from the second half forward, and they played totally different from the Jets; aggressive, in your face, send 7 guys if necessary but GET IN THE QB'S FACE. NOT sit back and give the guy all day to throw, hoping a CB will be able to chase the WRs for 10-12 seconds, that's just bad coaching. Bend don't break is just stupid football, and why any coach, but seemingly so many Jet head coaches, seem to prefer it.

And thats why Mangini needs to go. Dont get me wrong... everyone on the jets sucked yesterday. But you cant fire 53, so fire the inept coaching staff instead. I am a believer in being a tough head coach, but you need to be able to coach on Sunday's and Mangini cant do it. He's worse than Hermie. Time for a clean slate.