What I want to see on Sunday

[Mandarinia]

If at halftime; the Jets are losing, NE won earlier, and Baltimore is winning I want to see Ratliff behind center for the 2nd half. Anyone else want to see our future QB playing if you know we have a no shot at getting into the playoffs?

[JetsTitans63]

If at halftime; the Jets are losing, NE won earlier, and Baltimore is winning I want to see Ratliff behind center for the 2nd half. Anyone else want to see our future QB playing if you know we have a no shot at getting into the playoffs?

Yes consider me abaord the Brett Ratliff bandwagon................

[Irish Jet]

I'd rather see Clemens in all honesty.

[JetsTitans63]

I'd rather see Clemens in all honesty.

Been there done that and he failed miserably. No thanks..

[kelticwizard]

If at halftime; the Jets are losing, NE won earlier, and Baltimore is winning I want to see Ratliff behind center for the 2nd half.

Let's see. We have a QB known for second half comebacks, who earlier this season threw 5 TD's in a half, and who, while playing like crap for most of last week's game, still threw a 40+ yard beauty on fourth down which would have put us right back in the game if caught.

And Baltimore has a rookie QB. Doesn't make many mistakes, but still a rookie.

And if we're behind at halftime you're ready to assume our playoff chances are over and want to get a look at the guy who may or may not be our starter next season.

Sorry, no.

[Mandarinia]

I'd rather see Clemens in all honesty.

IMO Clemens will be nothing but a backup. Hes scared, I dont know of what but watch film of him, the kid is scared. Confidence in the pocket is something you cant teach.

[StillerPaul]

I just wanna see a good hard fought game. Which it should be with both teams playing for their playoff lives. IMO this game will tell the fanbase alot about Mangini. If they play flat and uninspired yet again i think it may be time to move on.

[Mandarinia]

Let's see. We have a QB known for second half comebacks, who earlier this season threw 5 TD's in a half, and who, while playing like crap for most of last week's game, still threw a 40+ yard beauty on fourth down which would have put us right back in the game if caught.

And Baltimore has a rookie QB. Doesn't make many mistakes, but still a rookie.

And if we're behind at halftime you're ready to assume our playoff chances are over and want to get a look at the guy who may or may not be our starter next season.

Sorry, no.

And you want to continue to play with a QB that wont even be playing football next year?

Sorry, no.

[Vudu]

Brett Ratliff won't even be active on Sunday.

[kelticwizard]

Mandarinia, apparently you didn't consider what I said in my post.

Favre threw 5 TD's in a half this year. He has been known for comebacks his whole career. And last week he rose above his own bad play to make a phenomenal pass which if caught would have put us back in it.

Do you know for sure we can't come back in the second half Sunday? No.

Do you know for sure Baltimore's rookie QB can't make some key mistakes in a game he's leading? No.

Do you know for sure that if Favre leads the team back that he won't win the next game in the playoffs? No.

You get down to the last half of the season with any kind of chance to make the playoffs and you want to piss it away and start looking at prospects, like this was an exhibition game?

"Do not go gentle into that good night.

Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

Dylan Thomas

[4HCrew]

I have heard it all now...

[ECURB]

Brett Ratliff won't even be active on Sunday.

He can still play, just means the #1 QB cant come BACK in... unless of course the 3rd QB comes in during the 4th Q... then it doesnt matter..

[Mandarinia]

Mandarinia, apparently you didn't consider what I said in my post.

Favre threw 5 TD's in a half this year. He has been known for comebacks his whole career. And last week he rose above his own bad play to make a phenomenal pass which if caught would have put us back in it.

Do you know for sure we can't come back in the second half Sunday? No.

Do you know for sure Baltimore's rookie QB can't make some key mistakes in a game he's leading? No.

Do you know for sure that if Favre leads the team back that he won't win the next game in the playoffs? No.

You get down to the last half of the season with any kind of chance to make the playoffs and you want to piss it away and start looking at prospects, like this was an exhibition game?

"Do not go gentle into that good night.

Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

Dylan Thomas

Let me ask you this..how many comback games has farve won for us this year when were losing at the half?

Thats right.....NONE

Farve is not the same player as he used to be. To compair his past acomplishments to now is just plain stupid and shows no logic what so ever. What is so wrong with givng a kid some playing time to see what we have for next year? Somewhere you just have to cut you losses and move on, why not on sunday givin the situation I gave earlier if you even bothered to read it?

[kelticwizard]

I read your posts and I'm still shaking my head.

Favre has led comebacks. Were we ahead when Coles caught that pass against KC?

Favre has caught fire at points during this season, and you know it. If I'm a coach, I'll be damned if I don't give him a shot to take us into the postseason. You want to throw it away because you want to take a look at a QB prospect for next year?

If any coach pulled that the fans should riot. Seriously. They should descend from the stands as one, grabbing any and all inanimate objects and rip them out of their place, continue down to the field level pulling up turf, breaking benches and dismembering goal posts. Then move into the locker rooms and smash everything standing above three inches tall.

There isn't a jury in the country which would convict a single one of them.

That's how bad your idea sucks.

[CTM]

Let me ask you this..how many comback games has farve won for us this year when were losing at the half?

Thats right.....NONE

ftr.. That's 100% on coaching. We do ok until the other team makes adjustments. We've been continually outscored in the second half since Mangini got here and just the other day I read that the defense was ranked #6 in the first half and #26 in the second half (or similar) in the most widely used efficiency stat out there. Basically the entire team falls apart when mangini is forced to think on his feet and react to what the opponent is doing..

[Mandarinia]

I read your posts and I'm still shaking my head.

Favre has led comebacks. Were we ahead when Coles caught that pass against KC?

Favre has caught fire at points during this season, and you know it. If I'm a coach, I'll be damned if I don't give him a shot to take us into the postseason. You want to throw it away because you want to take a look at a QB prospect for next year?

If any coach pulled that the fans should riot. Seriously. They should descend from the stands as one, grabbing any and all inanimate objects and ripping them out of their place, continue down to the field level pulling up turf, breaking benches and dismembering goal posts, then move into the locker rooms and smash everything standing above three inches tall.

There isn't a jury in the country which would convict a single one of them.

That's how bad your idea sucks.

Your missing my point, I feel like im talking to a two year old.

B4 you said halftime combacks then when i proved you wrong now its just comeback wins.

Your also not giving me any statistics besides "how do you know this wont happen and how do you know that will happen" Those points are complete bulls**t and you know it. they can work both ways.

How do you know Ratliff wont lead this team from behind in the 2nd half?

How do you know Ratliff wont have the highest QB rating for week 17?

Your points make no sense what so ever! The Jets have yet to win a game when losing in the first half.

The jets have scored 234 pts (14.63 avg) in the first half

Jets opp. have scored 152 pts (10.19 avg) in the first half

The jets have scored 152 pts (9.5 avg) in the second half

Jets opp. have scored 169 pts (10.56 avg) in the second half

So if the jets are losing at half time, our chances are low on winning, add that to Baltimore winning = very low chance of Jets making PO's

[villain_the_foe]

If at halftime; the Jets are losing, NE won earlier, and Baltimore is winning I want to see Ratliff behind center for the 2nd half. Anyone else want to see our future QB playing if you know we have a no shot at getting into the playoffs?

****, I want to see Ratliff for all 4 Quarters. Im witcha homie!

[JMJ]

ftr.. That's 100% on coaching. We do ok until the other team makes adjustments. We've been continually outscored in the second half since Mangini got here and just the other day I read that the defense was ranked #6 in the first half and #26 in the second half (or similar) in the most widely used efficiency stat out there. Basically the entire team falls apart when mangini is forced to think on his feet and react to what the opponent is doing..

Great post.

See sig.

[kelticwizard]

Your missing my point, I feel like im talking to a two year old.

On the contrary, I understand your point entirely. You are making a ridiculous assertion, and I am calling it ridiculous.

B4 you said halftime combacks then when i proved you wrong now its just comeback wins.

I never said halftime comebacks, not once. I said second half comebacks. That is to say, the Jets found themselves behind at some point in the second half, and Favre has led them to victory. That has happened.

Now, some things are so basic they should not have to be explained to anyone, but apparently these things have to be explained to you. Among these things is the fact that it is more difficult to lead your team to victory if you are behind with 10 minutes or 5 minutes left in the game than if there are 30 minutes left in the game. Favre has led us to victory when we were behind with much less than 30 minutes left in the game, so it stands to reason that he has the capability to lead us to victory when there are exactly 30 minutes left in the game.

Your also not giving me any statistics besides "how do you know this wont happen and how do you know that will happen" Those points are complete bulls**t and you know it. they can work both ways.

How do you know Ratliff wont lead this team from behind in the 2nd half?

How do you know Ratliff wont have the highest QB rating for week 17?

Oh, so now you are trying to win the game by putting in Ratliff in the second half? Then why put him in only if New England has won and Baltimore is ahead at halftime? If you think Brett Ratliff gives us the best chance to win, why not start him regardless of whether New England or Baltimore won or is winning?

You didn't want to put Ratliff in because he gives us a better chance to win than Favre. You made that clear. You wanted to put Ratliff in only if the scoreboard says the Jets were likely to miss out on the playoffs and we were destined to lose the game anyway, (which destiny is determined, according to you, by being behind at halftime). Stop trying to switch your positions around!

Halftime is far too early in the game to throw in the towel on the chance of making the playoffs. The Jets owe it to their fans to fight for every chance to do that, no matter how small it might be. I don't think being behind at halftime is necessarily evidence that our chance of winning is small.

Your points make no sense what so ever! The Jets have yet to win a game when losing in the first half.

That is a lie! The Jets have won games this season where they were behind in the first half. The Jets have won games this season when they were behind in the second half. The only thing they apparently have not done is win games when they happened to be behind at exactly the 30 minute mark, and I really don't see the significance of that, frankly.

The jets have scored 234 pts (14.63 avg) in the first half

Jets opp. have scored 152 pts (10.19 avg) in the first half

The jets have scored 152 pts (9.5 avg) in the second half

Jets opp. have scored 169 pts (10.56 avg) in the second half

So if the jets are losing at half time, our chances are low on winning, add that to Baltimore winning = very low chance of Jets making PO's

By your own statistics, the Jets have scored an average of ONE POINT less than their opponents in the second half, and you think that mandates the Jets throw in the towel if they are behind at halftime and start looking at QB prospects in the second half?

You do realize that Sunday is the most important game of our entire year, right? Everything the team has worked for goes down if they lose Sunday. How you can be so cavalier and say forget the game, put in Ratliff if we are behind at the 30 minute mark is beyond me.

[Mandarinia]

I never said halftime comebacks, not once. I said second half comebacks. That is to say, the Jets found themselves behind at some point in the second half, and Favre has led them to victory. That has happened.

90% of the time it is not farve that brings us behind. Most of the time, its somebody like leon that puts us into a situation for a comeback, or a defensive play. (ellis td)

Oh, so now you are trying to win the game by putting in Ratliff in the second half? Then why put him in only if New England has won and Baltimore is ahead at halftime? If you think Brett Ratliff gives us the best chance to win, why not start him regardless of whether New England or Baltimore won or is winning?

You didn't want to put Ratliff in because he gives us a better chance to win than Favre. You made that clear. You wanted to put Ratliff in only if the scoreboard says the Jets were likely to miss out on the playoffs and we were destined to lose the game anyway, (which destiny is determined, according to you, by being behind at halftime). Stop trying to switch your positions around!

Halftime is far too early in the game to throw in the towel on the chance of making the playoffs. The Jets owe it to their fans to fight for every chance to do that, no matter how small it might be. I don't think being behind at halftime is necessarily evidence that our chance of winning is small.

I'm not switching my positions, i'm showing you that your what if statements are beyond retarded and show no football knowledge what so ever. (everyone is a good monday morning QB)

That is a lie! The Jets have won games this season where they were behind in the first half. The Jets have won games this season when they were behind in the second half. The only thing they apparently have not done is win games when they happened to be behind at exactly the 30 minute mark, and I really don't see the significance of that, frankly.

Because if we're behind at the 30 min mark...we will not win. This team plays god awful when playing from behind. Hell we play god awful in any second half game ahead 30pts or behind 30pts .

By your own statistics, the Jets have scored an average of ONE POINT less than their opponents in the second half, and you think that mandates the Jets throw in the towel if they are behind at halftime and start looking at QB prospects in the second half?

You do realize that Sunday is the most important game of our entire year, right? Everything the team has worked for goes down if they lose Sunday. How you can be so cavalier and say forget the game, put in Ratliff if we are behind at the 30 minute mark is beyond me.

Yes I do realize this is the most important game of our season...but the Jets shoudnt be in this situation and quite frankly dont deserve to be in the playoffs...they have been playing like s**t (wither its the coaches fault or players) We had our own fate in our own hands a few weeks ago, the Jets blew it, its time to dump farve and look towards the future. This is not a superbowl team nor is it a playoff team and if they get in the payoffs it is by shear luck.

[kelticwizard]

90% of the time it is not farve that brings us behind. Most of the time, its somebody like leon that puts us into a situation for a comeback, or a defensive play. (ellis td)

I disagree, but the fact remains is that under Favre we come back when we are behind in the first half, we come back when are behind in the second half. It is simply coincidence that we have not come back so far when we are behind at the exact 30 minute mark, for we have accomplished the more difficult task of coming back when we fall behind deep in the second half.

Please explain to me the fundamental difference between taking the lead in the fourth quarter after falling behind in the second quarter, and taking the lead in the fourth quarter after falling behind in the third quarter. Do you see one? I don't, and neither does anyone else.

I'm not switching my positions, i'm showing you that your what if statements are beyond retarded and show no football knowledge what so ever. (everyone is a good monday morning QB)

You are absolutely switching your positions. You started out saying that Ratliff should be inserted only if New England won and Baltimore was leading at halftime-in other words the Jets were likely to miss the playoffs-then switched and started arguing we should insert Ratliff because he might give us a better chance to win. What else is "How do you know Ratliff wont lead this team from behind in the 2nd half?" supposed to mean? If you feel that Ratiff gave us the best chance to win, then you must argue that he must start. If you are arguing that he should be inserted at halftime only if it looks like we can't make the playoffs win or lose, then you are admitting you don't think Ratliff maximizes our chances to win. You can't have it both ways and expect to make sense.

Because if we're behind at the 30 min mark...we will not win. This team plays god awful when playing from behind. Hell we play god awful in any second half game ahead 30pts or behind 30pts .

By your own statistics-your own statistics-you admit that over the course of 15 games we average only 1 point worse than our opponents in the second half. That's nearly even. But there is no reason to think that in the sixteenth game the average has to hold, anymore than there is reason to think that in any one baseball game a .250 hitter MUST go 1 for 4. We all know that over the course of a season that batter will sometimes go 0 for 4, and sometimes 3 for 4. We just don't know which games.

Saying that we should concede the second half because we haven't won yet when behind at halftime makes about as much sense as that .250 hitter coming up to bat in the last inning and saying, "Hell, I've already gotten my one hit today, so I might as well ground out on purpose!"

Yes I do realize this is the most important game of our season...but the Jets shoudnt be in this situation and quite frankly dont deserve to be in the playoffs...they have been playing like s**t (wither its the coaches fault or players) We had our own fate in our own hands a few weeks ago, the Jets blew it, its time to dump farve and look towards the future. This is not a superbowl team nor is it a playoff team and if they get in the payoffs it is by shear luck.

Oh, so we don't "deserve" to be in the playoffs, so let's let them slip away? Nuts to that. The requirements for making the playoffs were in place before the season ever began, they apply to all teams. Any coach who takes his team to the final half of the season with any kind of chance of making the playoffs and then uses that last half for looking at prospects for next year instead of going for the win is a complete disgrace.

The fans would have the right to riot.

[Mandarinia]

kelticwizard the difference between taking the lead in the 4th after losing in the 2nd and etc is the fact that we fell behind in the first place. This team has the potential to be an elite team (as seen in some games) but the fact is that we have a mediocre coach and a old QB. Do I think Mangini will be good one day yes i do, do I think Farve is done yes I do.

I am not switching my positions, I was showing you that what you said earlier;

Do you know for sure we can't come back in the second half Sunday? No.

Do you know for sure Baltimore's rookie QB can't make some key mistakes in a game he's leading? No.

Do you know for sure that if Favre leads the team back that he won't win the next game in the playoffs? No.

can go both ways, Ratliff has the potential to do the same. Do i think he will, prob not, but I do want to see what hes got facing a real NFL team that is giving it their all.

The fact is the Jets have played poor 2nd half games in all 15 games. What makes this one any different, besides our season is resting on it. Our season has been on our shoulders since week 1. I'm sorry but saying this is the most important game of the season is ridiculous, the Jets blew it. We had everything lined up in our favor but yet we f'ed up. We shouldnt even been in this situation.

And no we dont deserve the playoffs. I'm tired of the Jets embarrassing themselves on national television, which is what we would do. Dont get me wrong I would give anything in the world for the Jets to go far into the playoffs, but I'm a realist and I know what would happen if we get there.

So giving the situation I said b4 and the proof that the Jets play a poor 2nd half, why not play Ratliff. What do we have to loose? Our season is practically over at that point anyways.

LOOK AHEAD FOR THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT!

[kelticwizard]

The fact is the Jets have played poor 2nd half games in all 15 games. What makes this one any different, besides our season is resting on it.

Your second sentence just answered your first.

If I understand your argument correctly, since the Jets have not won after trailing at halftime this year, then if they trail at halftime the second half automatically becomes what the basketball players call "garbage time". Garbage time is when there are 5 minutes left in the game and the team is trailing by 25 points, so the coach puts in all the scrubs to see how they perform in a real game. Who knows, maybe he'll find that some of them are better than he thought.

My feeling, and the feeling of most, is that merely being behind at the half does not qualify the whole second half as "garbage time". So many things can happen in a half that to write off the last half of the game when you still have a chance to win is letting your fans down. Even if Baltimore is winning at the half, you still don't know what can happen in the second half in that game either.

The fact that the Jets have not come back from a halftime deficit to win at the end all season does not mean that they cannot do so this time. The Jets can come back. They have come back from behind behind in the first half to lead at the half. They have come back from falling behind in the second half to win the game. Simply setting up that 30 minute marker as a 100% determinant of whether they will win or lose is just plain wrong.

Our season has been on our shoulders since week 1. I'm sorry but saying this is the most important game of the season is ridiculous, the Jets blew it. We had everything lined up in our favor but yet we f'ed up. We shouldnt even been in this situation.

I agree we should not be in this situation, but we are and that is why this is the most important game all year. All 80,000 fans who take time from their lives to show up for that game, and all the Jets fans watching at home will be looking for one thing-a Jet victory. Maybe we'll win, maybe we'll lose, but if the coach gives up on the game at halftime to look at prospects at QB on the theory that statistically we can't win a game if trailing at halftime-that would be a disgrace.

Just like to point something out about sports. In 1988, the Mets and Dodgers played 14 times and the Mets won 13 of them. The Mets won when they were leading, they won when they were trailing, they won all the time. At the conclusion of one game, the Dodgers' manager just sat in the dugout in shock after the Dodgers' bullpen let the Mets off the hook yet again in the ninth inning.

Despite this, the Dodgers won the Western Division and faced the Mets in the playoffs. Guess who won? That's right, the Dodgers, and they went on to win the World Series.

You see after getting beaten and embarrassed by the Mets all season, the Dodgers came into the playoffs knowing that all they had to do was win three games and what happened previously counts for nothing. And they were right.

Never give up, because you never what's going to happen, statistics or no statistics.

[Mandarinia]

First off you need to stop compairing football to other sports. Baseball is completly different than football, its like compairing apples to oranges. I do understand where your coming from, but at some point you have to give up and throw in the towel.

The Jets have a slim chance on getting to the PO's to begin with, and a even smaller chance with my situation. I do not want to be stuck in the same spot next season, wondering if we have a QB or not. Clemens is no good, I want to see Ratliff. If hes no good then we know we need one in FA or draft. And yes you can see if somebody has potential by playing 30 min. You can see if he grasps the offense and is a leader.

But hopefully we're not in this situation come tomorrow. hopefully NE loses.

[Bugg]

Having watched almost every NFL game Chad Pennington ahs ever played, I want to see-

-more than 3 guys rushing him, 5 would be even better;

-NO DEFENDER DEEPER THAN 7 YARDS OFF THE LOS;

-TE Fasano covered(how about Kerry Rhodes doing SOMETHING like that?);

-recivers getting bumped at the LOS so they cannot run wild.

BUT-I don't expect ANY of that.And I don't because this CS is as braindead as possible. Chad instead will get 7-10 seconds plus and will pick this defense apart, like every other middling QB they've played this year has.And if you want a great fantast tip, start Anthony Fasano.

[kelticwizard]

Mandarinia, you keep maintaining that the fact that the Jets have not come back to win a game after trailing at halftime is utterly paramount in regards to the Jets winning after trailing at halftime Sunday. That the fact that the Jets have come back by halftime after trailing in the first half is immaterial, and that they have come back to win at the end after falling behind in the second half has no bearing on the situation at all.

Earlier, I asked you the following question:

Please explain to me the fundamental difference between taking the lead in the fourth quarter after falling behind in the second quarter, and taking the lead in the fourth quarter after falling behind in the third quarter. Do you see one? I don't, and neither does anyone else.

Your answer was the following:

kelticwizard the difference between taking the lead in the 4th after losing in the 2nd and etc is the fact that we fell behind in the first place.

Since I gave you two instances where the Jets were trailing, one after the second quarter and one after the third, your answer that you don't think the Jets should be trailing anybody ever is hardly to the point.

So I ask you again, for this is the crux of the matter: Please explain to me the fundamental difference between taking the lead in the fourth quarter after falling behind in the second quarter, and taking the lead in the fourth quarter after falling behind in the third quarter. Do you see one?

[Mandarinia]

So I ask you again, for this is the crux of the matter: Please explain to me the fundamental difference between taking the lead in the fourth quarter after falling behind in the second quarter, and taking the lead in the fourth quarter after falling behind in the third quarter. Do you see one?

It doesnt matter when we lost the lead and when we got the lead. All season we have played poorley in the 2nd half, I have told you this many times already. If the coaching staff hasn't fixed this by now it aint going to be fixed! This s**t should have been fixed within the first quarter of the season at the most. Football is about playing for 60 min, not 30, not 20. The Jets dont play a complete game, miami does.

You keep supporting Farve like hes the 2nd coming of christ or something. Saying Farve has lead this team from behind many times during the season. But he has also put us out of the games many times. You see Farve is nothing special, hes just an old man trying to be what he USED TO BE. Most of the time it has been sombody like Leon that kept us in the game, useally not in the 4th quater but sometime during the game with a killer return or a big run. If you think Farve is the same then you must be on drugs. Hes not having fun anymore, his arm is shot, and has little heart left.

Ratliff has the same potential as any other player, good or bad, It is yet to been seen. But I want to see it! And I say again IF THE JETS ARE LOSING AND B-MORE IS WINNING AT THE HALF I WANT FARVE SITTING ON HIS OLD ASS!

[Jetman_67]

I wish someone would just Pop Mangini on Sunday!!!!! I cant stand to see the clueless jackass on the sidelines ever again!!!!!!!!!!!

[BP]

[quote name='Jetman67

[Pragmatic Bus]

[quote name='Jetman67

[Jetman_67]

Why didn't you chuck a snowball at him last Sunday? you had your chance, John.

Um Dude I did, I nailed him with a ice ball. I waited by the tunnel for 15 mins. it was kinda a lucky shot about 20 mins after breaking my nose defending the Jets faithful against the aggressive seattle fans. My middle finger is still tired from all the use it had last week

[Pragmatic Bus]

[quote name='Jetman67

[Jetman_67]

you didn't pop him so mission

Someone needs to complete the mission. The underachievement must end now

[Pragmatic Bus]

[quote=Jetman67

[BP]

[quote name='Jetman67