Anonymous Player Says What We've Been Saying All Season

[DaBrick Wall]

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2008/12/jet_grouses_coaches_catered_to.html

"We're out there busting our butts and (Favre) is turning the ball over," said the player, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because his comments would be frowned upon by the organization. "You can't win like that.

"We never got any rhythm on offense. Instead of us pounding the ball with TJ (Thomas Jones), we're doing all of this other stuff. It's not just me, a lot of guys weren't happy with the play-calling. They (the coaches) were always catering to Favre instead of doing what we were built to do, which is run the ball."

[Bleedin Green]

Sounds like probably one of the OL given the statement. Can't blame whoever said it though, he's right. How many times did we have to watch the Jets inexplicably abandon the run when TJ was tearing the defense up just to watch Favre start heaving the ball all over the place?

[Larz]

amen

manigini and shotty didn't have the balls to stand up to "the legend". hell, he is older than both of them, he probably threatened them with wedgies if they didn't run his offense

[JiFtheOracle]

Good. Hopefully this will keep Brett from coming back.

[Irish Jet]

BTW, the O-line was pretty darn good this season and when the O-line is goof the team SHOULD be good. As a result of bad coaching and horrible QB play - We weren't!

[Barton]

Anonymous player huh? Yawn.

[Maxman]

Anonymous player huh? Yawn.

I agree. The Jets weren't "pass happy". Actually yesterday they were but Thomas Jones was getting stuff consistently.

[Jbro22]

I agree. The Jets weren't "pass happy". Actually yesterday they were but Thomas Jones was getting stuff consistently.

Yesterday shouldn't of mattered.

[Klecko73isGod]

amen

manigini and shotty didn't have the balls to stand up to "the legend". hell, he is older than both of them, he probably threatened them with wedgies if they didn't run his offense

Exactly right.

And somebody's also got to have the balls to tell Favre to go take 15 minutes and get an MRI if his shoulder is hurting and sit him down if he's not 100 percent, streak be damned.

We're here to win football games, not stroke egos.

[Ghost]

Agree.

[JerryK]

BTW, the O-line was pretty darn good this season and when the O-line is goof the team SHOULD be good. As a result of bad coaching and horrible QB play - We weren't!

Or....the OL was good -- but not good enough.

I've heard linemen like to run-block. Is run-blocking easier than pass protection? If so, and if I were a lineman struggling to do my job, I'd declare us a "run only" team and blame the playcalling too.

[ZachEY]

Sounds like probably one of the OL given the statement. Can't blame whoever said it though, he's right. How many times did we have to watch the Jets inexplicably abandon the run when TJ was tearing the defense up just to watch Favre start heaving the ball all over the place?

I'd bet heavy on Faneca.

[JETfrmWOMBtoTOMB]

Exactly right.

And somebody's also got to have the balls to tell Favre to go take 15 minutes and get an MRI if his shoulder is hurting and sit him down if he's not 100 percent, streak be damned.

We're here to win football games, not stroke egos.

Ding! Ding! Ding!! We have a winner! Thank you Kleck!!!!!

[rillo]

BTW, the O-line was pretty darn good this season and when the O-line is goof the team SHOULD be good. As a result of bad coaching and horrible QB play - We weren't!

Well said.....

[Green DNA]

The O-line didn't do such a good job pass blocking either, but for damn sure Favre made some horrible decisions this year. I hope he's gone next year.

[Vicious89x]

I'd bet heavy on Faneca.

My thought exactly. The best veteran on our O-line who came from a run-first O.

I know this sounds dumb but I hope the fans and the media focus runs Favre out of town.

[ZachEY]

The O-line didn't do such a good job pass blocking either, but for damn sure Favre made some horrible decisions this year. I hope he's gone next year.

I said this earlier in the season, I believe it was after the KC game, when I was sitting between the uprights up top and could really get a feel for the formations. I could predict, with over 80% accuracy whether the team would run, or pass.

To me, it's amazing that the Oline did anything, because if I could do it, then other coaches surely could.

[rillo]

The O-line didn't do such a good job pass blocking either, but for damn sure Favre made some horrible decisions this year. I hope he's gone next year.

I think they did a great job, Favre just refuse to check the ball down and get rid of it. He was really painful to watch and root for IMO.

[joebabyny]

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2008/12/jet_grouses_coaches_catered_to.html

Total bulls$$t, if you aren't man enough to put your name to your comments than stfu. I would love to know who exactly this is and how well they did their job this year. I do feel that we should have been running the ball a LOT more with Jones and Washington, but I blame the cs for that completely, Brett was not calling the plays and it is absurd to think he was, he even went on record talking up Leon. As far as him being cater to, there is also word that the opposite was happening with Favre being quizzed and ridiculed by Mangina, which I believe is a little more credible than this unnamed source because at least Favre was a man and spoke his mind without hiding who he was.

[shawn306]

Favre was a major reason, along with the defense that this team went into the tank.

2 TD's and 9 INT's in the final five games.

Flat out awful.

Woody though apparently wants him back next year. We could be seeing #4 for at least another season.

[joebabyny]

Sounds like probably one of the OL given the statement. Can't blame whoever said it though, he's right. How many times did we have to watch the Jets inexplicably abandon the run when TJ was tearing the defense up just to watch Favre start heaving the ball all over the place?

Ya know, I am not sure it was the oline, i mean they would have some balls to say that, their pass blocking left a lot to be desired this year so it would be really chickens$$t of one of them to put the problems with the pass all on Favre. How many of those ints this year came while Favre heaved one with a defender tugging on him? Quite a large amount of them. Favre may have used some bad judgement trying to force those passes, but he shouldn't have had the defense trying to rip his shoulder off as much as they did. And also, no way Chad does not get injured this year if he took all the hits that Brett took this year.

[Bob]

Total bulls$$t, if you aren't man enough to put your name to your comments than stfu. I would love to know who exactly this is and how well they did their job this year. I do feel that we should have been running the ball a LOT more with Jones and Washington, but I blame the cs for that completely, Brett was not calling the plays and it is absurd to think he was, he even went on record talking up Leon. As far as him being cater to, there is also word that the opposite was happening with Favre being quizzed and ridiculed by Mangina, which I believe is a little more credible than this unnamed source because at least Favre was a man and spoke his mind without hiding who he was.

Wrong. If anonymity is the only way to get the truth, then so be it. I only wish this anonymous player had given more info, and not just opinions.

The Favre ballwashing around here all season has been sickening. I'm glad it's fading and most people are seeing he was a problem.

[Green DNA]

Ya know, I am not sure it was the oline, i mean they would have some balls to say that, their pass blocking left a lot to be desired this year so it would be really chickens$$t of one of them to put the problems with the pass all on Favre. How many of those ints this year came while Favre heaved one with a defender tugging on him? Quite a large amount of them. Favre may have used some bad judgement trying to force those passes, but he shouldn't have had the defense trying to rip his shoulder off as much as they did. And also, no way Chad does not get injured this year if he took all the hits that Brett took this year.

It is hard to defend Favre, his decision making has been horrible. 2 of his interceptions yesterday were of the the WTF? variety and the other one was the usual under/overthrow that he has thrown all year.

[joebabyny]

Exactly right.

And somebody's also got to have the balls to tell Favre to go take 15 minutes and get an MRI if his shoulder is hurting and sit him down if he's not 100 percent, streak be damned.

We're here to win football games, not stroke egos.

Where is there any proof that Favre had his hand in the decisions to abandon the run? I mean, with all the coaching mistakes on defense and overall game strategy and management, isn't it logical to assume the coaches were just as inept on the offensive side of the ball? Let's look at this logically, the coaching staff s$$t the bed this year, no way around it. The players get a lot of blame for giving up on the season the way they did, but no player out there was responsible for the defenses or offense being called or the lack of game prep or in game adjustments.

And as for stroking egos, the only guy there with the stones to come out and speak his mind and not hide his identity was Favre saying Mangini was most definitely NOT stroking his ego but quite the opposite.

[ThisYearsModel]

What irritated me was the passive approach on defense. Mangini is a defensive coach, he brought in players that were supposed to fit into the system he jammed the team with, and then played the most mpassive 3-4 I have ever seen. They couldn't stop the run, the pass or pressure QB's effectively. They drafted a workout warrior with the #6 pick that apparently can't play. Yesterday we watched a walk on LB making plays while Ghoulston watched from the sidelines.

[joebabyny]

Wrong. If anonymity is the only way to get the truth, then so be it. I only wish this anonymous player had given more info, and not just opinions.

The Favre ballwashing around here all season has been sickening. I'm glad it's fading and most people are seeing he was a problem.

Favre ball washing here? What board are you reading?

When a source is anonymous it means very little because it could have come from anyone who could be very close to the situation or out in left field. What if it was coles who clearly has an axe to grind with favre and has his own faults this year? What if it was a defensive player who isn't even privy to the offensive meetings and whether Favre is really being pampered. How would you like an anonymous source at your job going to HR and saying you spend 4 hours a day on the interwebz wasting company time when that person is the mailroom flunky who sees you for 3 minutes a day or it is the guy in your department competing with you for the promotion. Anonymity does not =truth, if it did than we wouldn't have the right to face our accuser in the court of law.

So Pennington was our excuse last year and now Favre is our excuse this year, is that it? How about we release Favre so that the Bills can go pick him up and then we will be 4th in division next year behind Cassel/Pennington/Favre.

[joebabyny]

It is hard to defend Favre, his decision making has been horrible. 2 of his interceptions yesterday were of the the WTF? variety and the other one was the usual under/overthrow that he has thrown all year.

This right here invalidates your opinion to a degree because one of his ints went right out of our WR's hands. Don't know how you can blame him for that, it was a totally catchable pass.

Look, Favre made some bad throws, but he made some great ones too that were successful or not because of the target he threw them to. We had a LOT of dropped and whiffed passes this year. but like I said, Favre threw some terrible passes. I would think his biggest problem though was forcing some out there when the pocket collapsed and he was practically being dragged to the ground when he launched them, as was the case with at least one of those picks yesterday that was NOT the wr's fault. The line whose ass everyone is kissing in this thread shares some of that blame. They were great at run blocking and a huge improvement in that regard this year, but in pass protection they were definitely below average.

[Klecko73isGod]

Where is there any proof that Favre had his hand in the decisions to abandon the run? I mean, with all the coaching mistakes on defense and overall game strategy and management, isn't it logical to assume the coaches were just as inept on the offensive side of the ball? Let's look at this logically, the coaching staff s$$t the bed this year, no way around it. The players get a lot of blame for giving up on the season the way they did, but no player out there was responsible for the defenses or offense being called or the lack of game prep or in game adjustments.

And as for stroking egos, the only guy there with the stones to come out and speak his mind and not hide his identity was Favre saying Mangini was most definitely NOT stroking his ego but quite the opposite.

All I know is that when the Jets were 8-3, Favre had 37 attempts of 20 or more yards and his numbers were not good, 5 TD, 5 INT, rating in the low 70s, below 50% complete. That's 3.36 deep attempts per game. However Favre was under control and effective with short to midrange passes, completing in the hight 70% range, the Jets were running the ball effectively and the offense was almost unstoppable.

After the Tennessee game, Schotty was interviewed and when asked why Favre wasn't throwing deep he hemmed and hawed and basically promised more deep balls.

The next four games, Favre threw 23 deep passes with awful results. Suddenly we're at just under six deep pass attempts per game. The running game would be abandoned for quarters at a time. The offense became sluggish and ineffective, exposing an already weak defense.

Why the sudden change? Maybe to appease the prima donna QB?

[joebabyny]

What irritated me was the passive approach on defense. Mangini is a defensive coach, he brought in players that were supposed to fit into the system he jammed the team with, and then played the most mpassive 3-4 I have ever seen. They couldn't stop the run, the pass or pressure QB's effectively. They drafted a workout warrior with the #6 pick that apparently can't play. Yesterday we watched a walk on LB making plays while Ghoulston watched from the sidelines.

yup, last year Chad took 85% of the blame in the public's eye while maybe he was 10% of the problem with this team, seems like the most visible and controversial player this year is getting the same treatment. Let's talk about the abysmal defense this year in the second half of the season. Let's talk about how there are maybe 1-2 other qbs who would have been able to score the 50+points on a clear day to beat the cardinals 30+ point third quarter comeback. Or the New England offensive comeback after the defense let them back in.

If you take the tape of every game this year and study it, I would say for every big favre mistake there are 2-3 plays he made that got us to a win or out of trouble. I am talking true favre mistakes, not ints that went through coles hands or bounced off another offensive players chest or helmet first.

[joebabyny]

All I know is that when the Jets were 8-3, Favre had 37 attempts of 20 or more yards and his numbers were not good, 5 TD, 5 INT, rating in the low 70s, below 50% complete. That's 3.36 deep attempts per game. However Favre was under control and effective with short to midrange passes, completing in the hight 70% range, the Jets were running the ball effectively and the offense was almost unstoppable.

After the Tennessee game, Schotty was interviewed and when asked why Favre wasn't throwing deep he hemmed and hawed and basically promised more deep balls.

The next four games, Favre threw 23 deep passes with awful results. Suddenly we're at just under six deep pass attempts per game. The running game would be abandoned for quarters at a time. The offense became sluggish and ineffective, exposing an already weak defense.

Why the sudden change? Maybe to appease the prima donna QB?

Wait, you said Schotty was questioned by the media, so if what your saying is true it is the media that forced him to throw it more, not Favre. Of course I don't buy that though. How about after Tenn, something all of a sudden happened with our offense where we got exposed and then we started finding ourselves in the whole and in tighter games where the CS wanted to start scoring quicker or in more precarious situations. Doesn't that make more sense then just fabricating this idea that Favre all of a sudden rocked the boat and demanded the ball more. I mean heck we were 8-3 and firing on all cylinders and say whatever you want about the guy but nobody can deny he wants to win as bad as any pro in the league. And besides, can anyone here NOT agree 110% that our defense completely dissapeared after that Tenn game?

[Klecko73isGod]

Wait, you said Schotty was questioned by the media, so if what your saying is true it is the media that forced him to throw it more, not Favre. Of course I don't buy that though. How about after Tenn, something all of a sudden happened with our offense where we got exposed and then we started finding ourselves in the whole and in tighter games where the CS wanted to start scoring quicker or in more precarious situations. Doesn't that make more sense then just fabricating this idea that Favre all of a sudden rocked the boat and demanded the ball more. I mean heck we were 8-3 and firing on all cylinders and say whatever you want about the guy but nobody can deny he wants to win as bad as any pro in the league. And besides, can anyone here NOT agree 110% that our defense completely dissapeared after that Tenn game?

The play calling is what changed after the Tennessee game. That's what happened to our offense.

If you can't or didn't recognize that, it's pointless to continue the conversation.

It's anyone's guess why the playcalling changed. One thing that makes sense is Favre dictating to the coaches what he would like to do as Mangini at one point said was the case.

[joebabyny]

The play calling is what changed after the Tennessee game. That's what happened to our offense.

If you can't or didn't recognize that, it's pointless to continue the conversation.

It's anyone's guess why the playcalling changed. One thing that makes sense is Favre dictating to the coaches what he would like to do as Mangini at one point said was the case.

We are not disagreeing on the playcalling being changed (although we may disagree on exactly how much it changed), where we are disagreeing is why. Every great competitor who cares and leaves it all on the field wants the balls, wants to make the plays, and that is what makes them all time greats, see jordan, LT, Payton Manning, Brady, Magic etc. So an all time great player and HOFer wanting to contribute should not be surprising or looked on as a bad thing. But to say that Favre forced their hand to change it all up when they were sitting on first at 8-3 with a creampuff schedule left is kinda crazy. It seemed to me that the defense all of a sudden was making these games a lot harder, which certainly would lead to a pass happy offense, it is what teams do when they are down. The offense doesn't really dictate what the defense does, but the defense (or lack of) will certainly dictate what the offense has to do because at the end of the day while a defense wins championships, your offense wins games. IF the defense is giving up points in the 3rd and 4th, than the offense has to charge it up.

This really was our problem with Pennington as well. Everyone LOVES to talk about his 2 minute drill int ducks, but what they don't talk about is why in the world he is in so many 2 minute hurry up offenses down a score at the end of games. It all starts with the defense, and nobody here will disagree that our defense did not fall apart.

[CTM]

All I know is that when the Jets were 8-3, Favre had 37 attempts of 20 or more yards and his numbers were not good, 5 TD, 5 INT, rating in the low 70s, below 50% complete. That's 3.36 deep attempts per game. However Favre was under control and effective with short to midrange passes, completing in the hight 70% range, the Jets were running the ball effectively and the offense was almost unstoppable.

After the Tennessee game, Schotty was interviewed and when asked why Favre wasn't throwing deep he hemmed and hawed and basically promised more deep balls.

The next four games, Favre threw 23 deep passes with awful results. Suddenly we're at just under six deep pass attempts per game. The running game would be abandoned for quarters at a time. The offense became sluggish and ineffective, exposing an already weak defense.

Why the sudden change? Maybe to appease the prima donna QB?

Yea, either that or the fact that opposing defenses shut down what we were doing prior to that and we weren't converting all of those third and shrots that we did. He also threw longer more because we were behind more. Jeez.....

The Favre offense suffered from the same problem that the Pennington offense does, it's incredibly difficult to consistently have time consuming dink and dunk drives. 1 penalty, 1 dropped pass and it's punt time..

[crackbackblock]

Wait, you said Schotty was questioned by the media, so if what your saying is true it is the media that forced him to throw it more, not Favre. Of course I don't buy that though. How about after Tenn, something all of a sudden happened with our offense where we got exposed and then we started finding ourselves in the whole and in tighter games where the CS wanted to start scoring quicker or in more precarious situations. Doesn't that make more sense then just fabricating this idea that Favre all of a sudden rocked the boat and demanded the ball more. I mean heck we were 8-3 and firing on all cylinders and say whatever you want about the guy but nobody can deny he wants to win as bad as any pro in the league. And besides, can anyone here NOT agree 110% that our defense completely disappeared after that Tenn game?

The defense disappeared all year in the second half. The very first game of the season Chad had like 10 yards passing at the half. He ended up with over 300 yards (yeah I know the numbers are not exact). But it was that way just about the enitre season. Seemed like one of the only games where they didn't play soft in the second half was Tenn. They had some REAL soft moments in that 2nd half too. But they stayed pretty aggressive for most of the game.

[Klecko73isGod]

Yea, either that or the fact that opposing defenses shut down what we were doing prior to that and we weren't converting all of those third and shrots that we did. He also threw longer more because we were behind more. Jeez.....

The Favre offense suffered from the same problem that the Pennington offense does, it's incredibly difficult to consistently have time consuming drives dink and dunk drives. 1 penalty, 1 dropped pass and it's punt time..

Actually, we weren't behind all that much until late in games.

Schotty was calling plays like we were down by three scores when the game was tied or the Jets were down by a touchdown or less early in the second half.

In the Seattle game in the snow, in a tie ball game, over an eleven play stretch in the first half, we ran the ball twice!!!

It had nothing to do with the defense or being down.

The playcalling turned to ****.

Favre throwing deep passes on third and one in the first half of a tie game or, when we're leading 14-3 over Buffalo made no sense other than appeasing the superstar's ego.