Jet Moses Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Benigno asked Cotch why the team collapsed, Cotch said alot of guys let the winning streak go to their head. He also said that offensively, they got away from the things that they were doing during the winning streak. Sounds like Favre and his coaches didn't see eye to eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Benigno asked Cotch why the team collapsed, Cotch said alot of guys let the winning streak go to their head. He also said that offensively, they got away from the things that they were doing during the winning streak. Sounds like Favre and his coaches didn't see eye to eye. I will give Schottenheimer this much credit: there's no friggin' way it's his idea to go empty-backfield so much. Let alone on 3rd & short with an immobile QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I will give Schottenheimer this much credit: there's no friggin' way it's his idea to go empty-backfield so much. Let alone on 3rd & short with an immobile QB. Why? He did it with Chad all the time too???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borgoguy Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I will give Schottenheimer this much credit: there's no friggin' way it's his idea to go empty-backfield so much. Let alone on 3rd & short with an immobile QB. Why do you say that, Sperm? Did Fraud really have that much influence in the play calling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Idk, to me it looked like the same offense all season. Francessa said a league insider told him Belicheck exposed the Jets in thier last game and the good coaches around the league followed the same gameplan. There were also the terrible second half adjustments by the whole coaching staff. The Jets hadn't scored on an opening drive in the second half in 36 straight games. That is a problem that never changed winning or losing. To me it seems Schotty was over his head as well. I'm personally not a fan of his as the offense hasn't had a true identity the whole 3 years he has been here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I will give Schottenheimer this much credit: there's no friggin' way it's his idea to go empty-backfield so much. Let alone on 3rd & short with an immobile QB. I hated that ****ing formation all year long. they should have put Leon right next to Favre and at least keep them honest. it was just as predictable as lining up T Jones 9 yards in the backfield and calling that ****er eligible all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Why? He did it with Chad all the time too???? No, Favre brought that crap with him from GB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 There was a breakdown in both the defense and offense coming down the stretch. Why could we not get a pass rush-why could we not cover any short routes=the list of things are endless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorjets Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I will give Schottenheimer this much credit: there's no friggin' way it's his idea to go empty-backfield so much. Let alone on 3rd & short with an immobile QB. I don't know about that, Sperm. Shotty worked under Steve Spurrier in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 No, Favre brought that crap with him from GB. No he didn't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Whoever idea is was to go empty backfield so many times-we hate you -signed jet fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetophile Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Bottom line is, you can't even dissect this debacle. You really can't; but, seeing as we all insist on doing so...SAME OLD JETS. This season will just blur together with the rest of this team's glorious history in a couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I don't know about that, Sperm. Shotty worked under Steve Spurrier in college. Great point. That spread out the D on third and short BS comes right out of Spurrier's playbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleDown Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Why? He did it with Chad all the time too???? I have to disagree with you here. Our "go to" play on 3rd and short with Chad was a hurry up QB sneak. The empty backfield, shotgun nonsense on 3rd and short didn't start until this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 No he didn't... Yes, he did. It was in an article. when the Jets called GB and asked what plays he liked, that one was his favorite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borgoguy Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Whoever idea is was to go empty backfield so many times-we hate you -signed jet fans. Remember, faba, these are--supposedly--NFL caliber coaches you're talking about. Whether it was Mangini's idea or Schottenheimer's, it was beyond stupid and bush league. Favre took most of his big hits in that formation. But guess what? They continued to do it even in Sunday's mess. It's what many of us have been saying the last few weeks: This joke of a coaching staff never changed their approach or adapted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Moses Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 There was a breakdown in both the defense and offense coming down the stretch. Why could we not get a pass rush-why could we not cover any short routes=the list of things are endless. Cotch didn't talk much about the defense (obviously) but Benigno did mention Gholston and why he wasnt used on 3rd and long et al but Cotch really didn't comment or respond to that stuff. He seemed genuinely sad that Mangini got fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Cotch didn't talk much about the defense (obviously) but Benigno did mention Gholston and why he wasnt used on 3rd and long et al but Cotch really didn't comment or respond to that stuff. He seemed genuinely sad that Mangini got fired. Mangini is the guy that gave him a chance. so it's understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason423 Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 All the stories coming out from the players are all about the same it seems in regards to their preparation problems. I really think if Mangini took a different approach after Denver the players might have responded, but he didnt. The other thing I notice is that all of these players talk about Chad. The chemistry Chad had with the team and how Favre never had that chance since he missed almost all of camp, etc.... Never once do you hear with Chad and Kellen last year. Its like those weeks never existed. Unless Ratliff wows people in camp I think it might be hard for the Jets to go with a non-veteran as their QB next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Yes, he did. It was in an article. when the Jets called GB and asked what plays he liked, that one was his favorite. http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d802a81f3 We passed out of the shotgun alot on third and short, in the past sometimes we kept in a back to block or go for a dump off.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d802a81f3 We passed out of the shotgun alot on third and short, in the past sometimes we kept in a back to block or go for a dump off.. OK, but we did it a hell of a lot more this year. you have to admit that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Moses Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 Mangini is the guy that gave him a chance. so it's understandable. Yup. Cotch also said that whoever the next coach is, they will have alot of talent to work with, thanks to Mangini. He said Mangini put a good team together in three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 OK, but we did it a hell of a lot more this year. you have to admit that. Sort of. What I admit is that with CHad we tended to keep a back in for blitz pickup who would sneak out for the dump off if he had no one to block. With Favre we went naked more. The bottom line though is that Schotty liked to pass on third and short.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borgoguy Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Yup. Cotch also said that whoever the next coach is, they will have alot of talent to work with, thanks to Mangini. He said Mangini put a good team together in three years. That's what pisses us off. Mangini, through Tanny's skill and Woody's wallet, had a world of talent to work with. With this in mind, the losses to Oakland, the Niners, Denver, Seattle, Miami--and almost to the Chiefs, Arizona and Buffalo--are mind boggling. These are teams with half our talent, and they outplayed us. No matter how much Cotch or the other guys like Mangini, he and his coaches took gold and turned it into lead. Inexcusable, and why those "coaches" are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Sort of. What I admit is that with CHad we tended to keep a back in for blitz pickup who would sneak out for the dump off if he had no one to block. With Favre we went naked more. The bottom line though is that Schotty liked to pass on third and short.. The no-back is what I'm referring to. Whether we ended up passing or running a draw before, either could be done. When there's no one in the backfield, the whole stadium knows it's a pass all the way. At least if it was a mobile QB like - well frankly even Clemens or Ratliff - then it could be a QB keeper. With Favre it's a pass all the way. And I absolutely do NOT remember Schotty doing that "all the time" with Chad or even Clemens the prior 2 seasons. Worse than all of that, we had no ground game back then & there wasn't even a real threat to run (or more to the point, a threat to gain yardage by running). With Jones or Leon having solid seasons, it was baffling to telegraph the run/pass selection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetophile Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 That's what pisses us off. Mangini, through Tanny's skill and Woody's wallet, had a world of talent to work with....Inexcusable, and why those "coaches" are gone.Rrrrr!, how many times have the Jets had 'talent' over the years? "This team is talented." Well, then play street ball and win a game on your own, too. I'm thinking that was highly possible this year. I could have beaten Oakland all by myself with a blind-fold on and running on a peg leg. I hate the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borgoguy Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Rrrrr!, how many times have the Jets had 'talent' over the years? "This team is talented." Well, then play street ball and win a game on your own, too. I'm thinking that was highly possible this year. I could have beaten Oakland all by myself with a blind-fold on and running on a peg leg. I hate the Jets. That Oakland game haunted me all season. I kept saying to my wife that the Oakland loss--against that inept team and QB--would come back and bite us on the a$$ come the end of the season. Little did I know that we'd pull similar chokes against equally talent-depleted teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 36 straight opening second half possesions without a score up until the Miami game. Ummm it was the coaching and it goes way beyond Favre or the shotgun 5 wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetophile Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 That Oakland game haunted me all season. I kept saying to my wife that the Oakland loss--against that inept team and QB--would come back and bite us on the a$$ come the end of the season. Little did I know that we'd pull similar chokes against equally talent-depleted teams.No kidding. I've been screaming about that game since the day it happened, because the writing was on the wall - for those in the know. So, how do we fix this? That's the real question, but it never seems or manages to be fixable. Maybe we should blow up the new stadium when there isn't anything particularly wrong with the current one. Let's start there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borgoguy Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 No kidding. I've been screaming about that game since the day it happened, because the writing was on the wall - for those in the know. So, how do we fix this? That's the real question, but it never seems or manages to be fixable. Maybe we should blow up the new stadium when there isn't anything particularly wrong with the current one. Let's start there. That question is so loaded on many different levels. If you look at the personnel we signed last year to "fix" the 4-12 debacle--and their negligible impact this season--you might give greater credence to the "same old Jets" mantra. How many more talented players do you want? Did they simply not gel as a team, or was it the inept coaching staff that did not understand how to utilize their skills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Rrrrr!, how many times have the Jets had 'talent' over the years? "This team is talented." Well, then play street ball and win a game on your own, too. I'm thinking that was highly possible this year. I could have beaten Oakland all by myself with a blind-fold on and running on a peg leg. I hate the phucking Jets. fixed it for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 The no-back is what I'm referring to. Whether we ended up passing or running a draw before, either could be done. When there's no one in the backfield, the whole stadium knows it's a pass all the way. At least if it was a mobile QB like - well frankly even Clemens or Ratliff - then it could be a QB keeper. With Favre it's a pass all the way. And I absolutely do NOT remember Schotty doing that "all the time" with Chad or even Clemens the prior 2 seasons. Worse than all of that, we had no ground game back then & there wasn't even a real threat to run (or more to the point, a threat to gain yardage by running). With Jones or Leon having solid seasons, it was baffling to telegraph the run/pass selection. Depends on how you define always, they ran the empty set with Pennington, Favre didn't bring it here. Regardless of whether or not a RB was back there, they passed out of the shotgun so much that i don't think preparing for the run was a serious concern of the defense and more then a reverse type play would've been with Favre... I agree about not liking the formation btw, what I disagree with is the concept that Schotty wasn't behind it.. I still maintain CHad was a big problem with our running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Depends on how you define always, they ran the empty set with Pennington, Favre didn't bring it here. Regardless of whether or not a RB was back there, they passed out of the shotgun so much that i don't think preparing for the run was a serious concern of the defense and more then a reverse type play would've been with Favre... I agree about not liking the formation btw, what I disagree with is the concept that Schotty wasn't behind it.. I still maintain CHad was a big problem with our running Then your memory is different than mine. I don't recall seeing so many empty-backfield shotgun formations on 3rd & 1 (or similar). I'm actually ok with it, sometimes, if the running game is lousy and/or the QB is mobile & has a great chance of getting the first down with his feet. Neither of those applied with Favre. Not to mention it was written several times over the course of the season that it was a particular favorite of Favre's. Just because it was in our playbook before is not the same. Every play is in every playbook pretty much. Which ones you call with the greatest frequency determine what style offense you run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleckineau Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Talented roster? Overstated dont you think. Pizza face was LUCKY to get nine wins, VERY lucky. 1st Miami game we sucked and won by luck. KC game was a lucky win. NE overtime win was a lucky win. Matt Cassel looked like Dan Fouts with roller blades on because of our inept defense. We lose if we dont get the coin toss. Buffalo game at home was a gift wrapped giveaway By Dick (I dont know how to run out the clock) Jauron Without those lucky wins the record would be what? 5-11 Mangini is a freakin dope. Just look at how he used Pace. Calvin Pace should be RUSHING THE PASSER NUMBNUTS! But he uses him to cover in passing downs? DIDNT he watch the last superbowl and see what a pass rush could do? What a douche. I CANT TAKE THIS TEAM ANYMORE ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Then your memory is different than mine. I don't recall seeing so many empty-backfield shotgun formations on 3rd & 1 (or similar). I'm actually ok with it, sometimes, if the running game is lousy and/or the QB is mobile & has a great chance of getting the first down with his feet. Neither of those applied with Favre. Not to mention it was written several times over the course of the season that it was a particular favorite of Favre's. Just because it was in our playbook before is not the same. Every play is in every playbook pretty much. Which ones you call with the greatest frequency determine what style offense you run. All I know is that we passed on third and short a lot, out of the shotgun. Not much was changed in that regard, what was different was that with pennington, we shifted people around in order to get receivers open through confusion in the secondary. With Favre we didn't do that, which to me was the biggest difference and one I didn't like.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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