The truth is Mangini should have been given another year

[Jetlag]

Without the Interception King. He should have been allowed to change his coordinators this year and been given at shot at the 2009 season.

This franchise perpetuates the SOJ joke by making rash moves without thinking of the future. They're not luring Cowher, Shanny or Parcells (back) here. Most likely we'll be starting with a first time HC once again. Who knows what kind of report he will have with Tannabaum?

Woody can shell out the money but if he wanted to be a legendary Jets owner he would have gotten us back to NY. There would have been no problem selling PSL's there. Instead now he is forced to make moves for big names that just want to collect checks. Woody has backed himself into a corner and now he is struggling to get out.

[Vicious89x]

Disagree but I do see your point.

IMO Mangini was just still TOO raw to be a HC. His basis for being a HC was imitating BB as much as he could, he still hasn't come into his own. 5 years as a position coach and 1 (bad) year as a DC to me in retrospect was a clear sign he wasn't ready.

[Gen X Jet]

Agreed- it was Brett Fraud that should have been canned on Monday morning.

[afosomf]

Without the Interception King. He should have been allowed to change his coordinators this year and been given at shot at the 2009 season.

This franchise perpetuates the SOJ joke by making rash moves without thinking of the future. They're not luring Cowher, Shanny or Parcells (back) here. Most likely we'll be starting with a first time HC once again. Who knows what kind of report he will have with Tannabaum?

Woody can shell out the money but if he wanted to be a legendary Jets owner he would have gotten us back to NY. There would have been no problem selling PSL's there. Instead now he is forced to make moves for big names that just want to collect checks. Woody has backed himself into a corner and now he is struggling to get out.

i would have fired him last year

[kelticwizard]

He was a smart, innovative coach who coached his team into making the just right play time and again in 2006.

Then he stopped taking chances and the team stopped playing hard for him. Once you've lost the team, it's all over. Even good coaches and managers have said that.

It's possible he'll be a good coach someday, if he goes back to showing some boldness and daring.

[ECURB]

Without the Interception King. He should have been allowed to change his coordinators this year and been given at shot at the 2009 season.

This franchise perpetuates the SOJ joke by making rash moves without thinking of the future. They're not luring Cowher, Shanny or Parcells (back) here. Most likely we'll be starting with a first time HC once again. Who knows what kind of report he will have with Tannabaum?

Woody can shell out the money but if he wanted to be a legendary Jets owner he would have gotten us back to NY. There would have been no problem selling PSL's there. Instead now he is forced to make moves for big names that just want to collect checks. Woody has backed himself into a corner and now he is struggling to get out.

Why?

What did he do to earn it?

Without the "interception king"? lol... how about with Chad... the Phins managed with him...

7 pro-bowlers... not enough?

an Oline made of 1st rounders... lol

AFCs leading rusher?

He did prove something... he sucks...

[talisaynon]

well at the very least, ecurb, you can change your sig cause he's not coming to us

[SMC]

Another year for what? To fail?

Have we forgotten the 2007 season? There was no Favre. Guess what. Mangenius went 4-12 with NO INJURIES. His QBs were also INT machines in 2007. As RutgersJetFan pointed out in another thread, Mangini's QBs (Chad,Clemens,Favre) have a combined TD:INT ratio of about 1:1.

Change the QBs under Mangini, same results. What does that tell you?

[ECURB]

well at the very least, ecurb, you can change your sig cause he's not coming to us

Says who?

ESPN?

lol

[ECURB]

Another year for what? To fail?

Have we forgotten the 2007 season? There was no Favre. Guess what. Mangenius went 4-12 with NO INJURIES. His QBs were also INT machines in 2007. As RutgersJetFan pointed out in another thread, Mangini's QBs (Chad,Clemens,Favre) have a combined TD:INT ratio of about 1:1.

Change the QBs under Mangini, same results. What does that tell you?

Exactly... change the defense... same results... still no pass rush this year and they made backup RB's look great... was this D really that much better than it was with Kimo and Drob?

Everyone is seeming to be fooled by the fact that he was smart... that does not make him a good coach... some of the smartest teachers are the WORST teachers...

[RutgersJetFan]

Another year for what? To fail?

Have we forgotten the 2007 season? There was no Favre. Guess what. Mangenius went 4-12 with NO INJURIES. His QBs were also INT machines in 2007. As RutgersJetFan pointed out in another thread, Mangini's QBs (Chad,Clemens,Favre) have a combined TD:INT ratio of about 1:1.

Change the QBs under Mangini, same results. What does that tell you?

.93:1

Poor Browns fans...

[bitonti]

no snitches!

[jetsman]

Without the Interception King. He should have been allowed to change his coordinators this year and been given at shot at the 2009 season.

This franchise perpetuates the SOJ joke by making rash moves without thinking of the future. They're not luring Cowher, Shanny or Parcells (back) here. Most likely we'll be starting with a first time HC once again. Who knows what kind of report he will have with Tannabaum?

Woody can shell out the money but if he wanted to be a legendary Jets owner he would have gotten us back to NY. There would have been no problem selling PSL's there. Instead now he is forced to make moves for big names that just want to collect checks. Woody has backed himself into a corner and now he is struggling to get out.

I totally agree Sutton should have been shown the door head first!

[Jetlag]

2007 was a year we had to endure because of poor personnel decisions of the previous regime added to a tough schedule.

This team made serious strides and choked in large part due to the poor quarterback play which then lead to a lack of confidence from the Head Coach. That became Eric's biggest problem, was that he lost confidence in his players and maybe himself to get the job done. That said, confidence can be restored. There's no doubt that EM put his blood and sweat into preparing this team. Eventually when you work that hard things begin to break your way. He was still extremely young for a HC and there needed to be some patience, IMO 3 years is NOT patience.

I'm sure when we suck next year with whatever first year coach they drag in, people will be saying "They could've kept Mangini if this is what were going to get."

[CTM]

The truth is Mangini should've been beaten and thrown in a ditch like Joe Pesci at the end of Casino after that Pathetic performance in Seattle.

An OL full of backups that had never worked together and we don't get a single sack while allowing Maurice fricken Morris to run for 116 yards. It's Unforgivable with a team that had to win to get in the playoffs.

[ZachEY]

2007 was a year we had to endure because of poor personnel decisions of the previous regime added to a tough schedule.

This team made serious strides and choked in large part due to the poor quarterback play which then lead to a lack of confidence from the Head Coach. That became Eric's biggest problem, was that he lost confidence in his players and maybe himself to get the job done. That said, confidence can be restored. There's no doubt that EM put his blood and sweat into preparing this team. Eventually when you work that hard things begin to break your way. He was still extremely young for a HC and there needed to be some patience, IMO 3 years is NOT patience.

I'm sure when we suck next year with whatever first year coach they drag in, people will be saying "They could've kept Mangini if this is what were going to get."

Ok.

So, after 2006, Mangini did exactly what to improve our offensive line that was already questionable?

And as for your hard work speech, that's not true. Hard work is a necessity for success, but it's certainly not sufficient. Not everyone can be an astronaut.

[SMC]

The truth is Mangini should've been beaten and thrown in a ditch like Joe Pesci at the end of Casino after that Pathetic performance in Seattle.

An OL full of backups that had never worked together and we don't get a single sack while allowing Maurice fricken Morris to run for 116 yards. It's Unforgivable with a team that had to win to get in the playoffs.

Many Jet fans go to the game, they see what's going on. I went to Sunday's game and watched Pace on defense. He was in coverage the majority of the time. This is supposed to be a pass rushing OLB and Mangini has him in coverage.

The week before, there was no stunts. No special blitz packages against Seattle. Nothing.

When are some people going to understand that as a Defensive Coordinator, Mangini was stripped of playcalling duties for 2 reasons:

1) Failure to make adjustments, and

2) Lack of aggressiveness

What plagued Mangini here? The same freakin' thing.

People want to kill Sutton, but I posted Cimini's excerpt in another thread. Mangini CONTROLLED the coordinators. The Jets FO was upset that Mangini did not let the coaches coach.

This was all Mangini.

His natural tendency is to be passive and when his brilliant gameplan gets countered, he has no clue how to counter the counter move.

[CTM]

Yes, and combine that with the TD/INT ratio thing between Favre and Chad and a very clear picture should form here in regards to who was at fault...

[jason423]

I think everyone just feels bad for him because his losing of the last two games is the reason the owner fired him, but if you look deeper at the coach what was there to really like? Outside of him being an excellent person to prepare off long breaks(which is why we beat the Steelers in 07, Pats in 06, and Titans in 08), there was not much to like. Chad took 100% of the blame for 2007. Nobody blamed the crappy defensive schemes. Nobody blamed the terrible playcalling. Nobody blamed the wacked out decisions Mangini made game after game. Nobody blamed Mangini for an awful handling of a young QB. By week 4 of 2007 it was blatant that Mangini took a major step back as a head coach. Had he pulled his win the multiple onsides kick routine this year he would have been crucified for it, but everyone just forgot that garbage last year. Because he was a genius it was his QB who sucked.

It was all the same this year. The same awful halftime adjustments. Ive put those numbers up countless times. The Jets get murdered in the second half of football games. The same awful playcalling. The same wacked out decisions like passing on a 4th and inches then on a long FG but going for a 4th and long when missing it ends the game. WTF? Where is the learning process? There was none.

Eric's greatest achievement was beating Belichick twoce on his home turf. Thats good. But this is the same guy that lost to Tom Cable. Nearly lost to Herman Edwards---TWICE. Is owned by Dick Juaron. That isnt a good coach. Mangini is never going to learn to improve while being a coach. You rarely do when things go sour as you are on your first job. You have to take a step back and re-evaluate things and then take another stab at it. He'll make the same mistakes in Cleveland he did here if he gets that job.

[JetsTitans63]

Mangini should have been fired last year.

[32green]

Ok.

Not everyone can be an astronaut.

Bad astronauts, big problems.

Hey, EY, I watched some dopey chick-flick movie with my wife, 27 dresses, and thought I saw you get a credit at the end? That Heigl chick is schweet.

[JohnnyHector]

The truth is Mangini should've been beaten and thrown in a ditch like Joe Pesci at the end of Casino after that Pathetic performance in Seattle.

[Jetlag]

So instead of trying to get an improvement of Eric which is possible. I mean his team did win some games this season. We're going to move on to the next project. Then as soon as that one shows signs of weakness in 2-3 years we will can him and rebuild again.

As for these rookie head coaches this year, I'd just like to point out that Eric Mangini was the Mike Smith or John Harbaugh of 2006. So this whole notion that a rookie HC can come here and do wonders starts to lose it's luster seeing that we had the next "it" HC at one time.

Let me ask you guys a question. Is there any HC out there that you TRULY want or just want because he's better then what he had?

The reason I ask is this. I was not so much against Eric getting fired, what I'm against is him getting fired just because Woody was praying to bring in Cowher with no other plan. That type of decision lacks all sorts of foresight.

[NJ]

The truth is Mangini should have been given another year

Good thing thats your truth and not ours. The Mageen has many good qualities and a great work ethic. I'm very happy he's going to be learning how to coach on somebody elses dime - if he ever does. Nice guy with good intentions.

[ZachEY]

Bad astronauts, big problems.

Hey, EY, I watched some dopey chick-flick movie with my wife, 27 dresses, and thought I saw you get a credit at the end? That Heigl chick is schweet.

Hey man...

That wasn't me. There's a guy with my name who's a 2nd Assistant Director and does a lot of major motion pictures. He's one of the 2 people (at least) who are kicking my ass at life with the same name. The other being a guy who went to either Princeton or Harvard and then met and married an heiress to a sailing fortune on JDate.

I have a lot of ground to cover.

[SMC]

I think everyone just feels bad for him because his losing of the last two games is the reason the owner fired him, but if you look deeper at the coach what was there to really like? Outside of him being an excellent person to prepare off long breaks(which is why we beat the Steelers in 07, Pats in 06, and Titans in 08), there was not much to like. Chad took 100% of the blame for 2007. Nobody blamed the crappy defensive schemes. Nobody blamed the terrible playcalling. Nobody blamed the wacked out decisions Mangini made game after game. Nobody blamed Mangini for an awful handling of a young QB. By week 4 of 2007 it was blatant that Mangini took a major step back as a head coach. Had he pulled his win the multiple onsides kick routine this year he would have been crucified for it, but everyone just forgot that garbage last year. Because he was a genius it was his QB who sucked.

It was all the same this year. The same awful halftime adjustments. Ive put those numbers up countless times. The Jets get murdered in the second half of football games. The same awful playcalling. The same wacked out decisions like passing on a 4th and inches then on a long FG but going for a 4th and long when missing it ends the game. WTF? Where is the learning process? There was none.

Eric's greatest achievement was beating Belichick twoce on his home turf. Thats good. But this is the same guy that lost to Tom Cable. Nearly lost to Herman Edwards---TWICE. Is owned by Dick Juaron. That isnt a good coach. Mangini is never going to learn to improve while being a coach. You rarely do when things go sour as you are on your first job. You have to take a step back and re-evaluate things and then take another stab at it. He'll make the same mistakes in Cleveland he did here if he gets that job.

Exactly.

People need to read this post again. Jason is 100% spot on. Plus, he's been saying this same stuff for weeks.

Incidently, I knew that Mangini was a bad HC since last year but gave him an "I" as incomplete because I wanted to see if he learned from his mistakes. He didn't.

If Mangini was a good HC, he wouldn't have gone 4-12. I actually said that before the 2007. That was a barometer year for me. An inherently good HC, whether young or old, would keep his team around .500 with the schedule they had and the lack of injuries.

The Jets were completely healthy in 2007. They should have been no worse than 7-9 that year. A good HC gets them to that. Mangini didn't. The Jets players won 8 of 11 games this year in spite of Mangini. They couldn't overcome him over the last 5 games especially with Favre pulling a 2000 Vinny.

[Vicious89x]

So instead of trying to get an improvement of Eric which is possible. I mean his team did win some games this season. We're going to move on to the next project. Then as soon as that one shows signs of weakness in 2-3 years will can him and rebuild again.

As for these rookie head coaches this year, I'd just like to point out that Eric Mangini was the Mike Smith or John Harbaugh of 2006. So this whole notion that a rookie HC can come here and do wonders starts to lose it's luster seeing that we had the next "it" HC at one time.

Let me ask you guys a question. Is there any HC out there that you TRULY want or just want because he's better then what he had?

The reason I ask is this. I was so much against the Eric getting fired, what I'm against is him getting fired just because Woody was praying to bring in Cowher with no other plan. That type of decision lacks all sorts of foresight.

The truth is that if those guys have 2 really bad seasons afterwards then I'm sure at least one of them will get canned. Yes we went 9-7... but was it a 9-7 you can sit back comfortable and say "I think our coach continued to grow and seems to be well on his way to becoming a great head coach."

If you say yes, well, then your expectations and positivity is much higher then mine. Lots of the same headaches all year and some scary things that point to just not enough experience. For me I will stick to one word: Adjustments. Mangini NEVER NEVER was able to adjust... and that is not a good thing when this is a chess match sort of game.

[jason423]

So instead of trying to get an improvement of Eric which is possible. I mean his team did win some games this season. We're going to move on to the next project. Then as soon as that one shows signs of weakness in 2-3 years will can him and rebuild again.

As for these rookie head coaches this year, I'd just like to point out that Eric Mangini was the Mike Smith or John Harbaugh of 2006. So this whole notion that a rookie HC can come here and do wonders starts to lose it's luster seeing that we had the next "it" HC at one time.

Let me ask you guys a question. Is there any HC out there that you TRULY want or just want because he's better then what he had?

The reason I ask is this. I was so much against the Eric getting fired, what I'm against is him getting fired just because Woody was praying to bring in Cowher with no other plan. That type of decision lacks all sorts of foresight.

The Jets should absolutely 100% not bring in another rookie head coach. I dont think Mangini was really the hot assistant at the time either. He was hot in NY because the Jets were desperate to be the Pats at all costs. Right now I think they are desperate to be the Giants which probably makes Spags the frontrunner. I think that is a mistake. Just like Herm was a big mistake. Rookie head coaches are not meant for NY. They are meant for Buffalo and Cincinnati where they can learn to run a team and then be upgraded to the big markets.

The Jets have to make a decision. Do they go for it all these next 2 years or do they look to try to be competitive now and grow the team at the same time. If the answer is the former they have to bring in a Mike Shanahan or Bill Parcells. Those big name types. If that isnt what they want they need to find a guy with experience and hope he improves enough in the 2nd go around that he can get the ship righted. Thats the group where most of your SB winners come from.

[SMC]

So instead of trying to get an improvement of Eric which is possible. I mean his team did win some games this season. We're going to move on to the next project. Then as soon as that one shows signs of weakness in 2-3 years we will can him and rebuild again.

As for these rookie head coaches this year, I'd just like to point out that Eric Mangini was the Mike Smith or John Harbaugh of 2006. So this whole notion that a rookie HC can come here and do wonders starts to lose it's luster seeing that we had the next "it" HC at one time.

Let me ask you guys a question. Is there any HC out there that you TRULY want or just want because he's better then what he had?

The reason I ask is this. I was not so much against Eric getting fired, what I'm against is him getting fired just because Woody was praying to bring in Cowher with no other plan. That type of decision lacks all sorts of foresight.

Jetlag, answer these 3 questions:

How does Mangini learn to make adjustments?

How does Mangini learn to not be passive?

How does Mangini learn to not be a micromanager and let his coaches coach?

Those are 3 character traits. These are not something that someone learns over time.

[JohnnyHector]

The Jets should absolutely 100% not bring in another rookie head coach. I dont think Mangini was really the hot assistant at the time either. He was hot in NY because the Jets were desperate to be the Pats at all costs. Right now I think they are desperate to be the Giants which probably makes Spags the frontrunner. I think that is a mistake. Just like Herm was a big mistake. Rookie head coaches are not meant for NY. They are meant for Buffalo and Cincinnati where they can learn to run a team and then be upgraded to the big markets.

The Jets have to make a decision. Do they go for it all these next 2 years or do they look to try to be competitive now and grow the team at the same time. If the answer is the former they have to bring in a Mike Shanahan or Bill Parcells. Those big name types. If that isnt what they want they need to find a guy with experience and hope he improves enough in the 2nd go around that he can get the ship righted. Thats the group where most of your SB winners come from.

Agree 100%.

[32green]

Exactly.

People need to read this post again. Jason is 100% spot on. Plus, he's been saying this same stuff for weeks.

True, that was an excellent post.

[Jetlag]

The truth is that if those guys have 2 really bad seasons afterwards then I'm sure at least one of them will get canned. Yes we went 9-7... but was it a 9-7 you can sit back comfortable and say "I think our coach continued to grow and seems to be well on his way to becoming a great head coach."

If you say yes, well, then your expectations and positivity is much higher then mine. Lots of the same headaches all year and some scary things that point to just not enough experience. For me I will stick to one word: Adjustments. Mangini NEVER NEVER was able to adjust... and that is not a good thing when this is a chess match sort of game.

I agree, with a lot of your post and like I said it's not that I necessarily disagree with him being fired but for what cost?

It'll be more costly and disadvantageous IMO to bring another newbie Head Coach who is going to have go through the ropes of learning how to coach, figuring what personnel to keep and bringing in a new staff...etc.

I think Cowher backing out puts a little bit of egg on Woody's face. It's becoming clear he was banking on him being the next HC.

[cmcm750203]

So instead of trying to get an improvement of Eric which is possible. I mean his team did win some games this season. We're going to move on to the next project. Then as soon as that one shows signs of weakness in 2-3 years we will can him and rebuild again.

As for these rookie head coaches this year, I'd just like to point out that Eric Mangini was the Mike Smith or John Harbaugh of 2006. So this whole notion that a rookie HC can come here and do wonders starts to lose it's luster seeing that we had the next "it" HC at one time.

Let me ask you guys a question. Is there any HC out there that you TRULY want or just want because he's better then what he had?

The reason I ask is this. I was not so much against Eric getting fired, what I'm against is him getting fired just because Woody was praying to bring in Cowher with no other plan. That type of decision lacks all sorts of foresight.

Exactly what I tried to post before but I was logged out and didn't feel like re-formulating my thoughts. This just smacks of typical Jets-like knee jerk reaction. I had a moment of insanity before last night where I thought that maybe there was some sense to this and we had a handshake deal with Cowher prior to the firing. Now, nothing. Back to square one. Was it a sure thing that Mangini would improve next year? No. But what harm would there have been in giving him a one year extention, ala Coughlin, with a playoffs or bust edict attached?

[Jetlag]

The Jets should absolutely 100% not bring in another rookie head coach. I dont think Mangini was really the hot assistant at the time either. He was hot in NY because the Jets were desperate to be the Pats at all costs. Right now I think they are desperate to be the Giants which probably makes Spags the frontrunner. I think that is a mistake. Just like Herm was a big mistake. Rookie head coaches are not meant for NY. They are meant for Buffalo and Cincinnati where they can learn to run a team and then be upgraded to the big markets.

The Jets have to make a decision. Do they go for it all these next 2 years or do they look to try to be competitive now and grow the team at the same time. If the answer is the former they have to bring in a Mike Shanahan or Bill Parcells. Those big name types. If that isnt what they want they need to find a guy with experience and hope he improves enough in the 2nd go around that he can get the ship righted. Thats the group where most of your SB winners come from.

First I agree with your original paragraph for the most part. But when after making that decision it's about having the balls (for an owner) to stick it out through some tough spots. Sure we the fans are satisfied but that also sends a message to the rest of the NFL community. It puts too much pressure on anyone trying to make it here, including veteran coaches especially if they think that the owner will pull the cord early because he has to sell seats. Part of being a successful NFL owner is sticking with decisions that may not be popular. Take the Rooney's for example, there have been plenty of years where Steelers fans called for Cowher's head. I'm getting the impression that Woody is the type of owner who will do everything to earn a buck today without thinking about tomorrow.

Secondly, I would LOVE Parcells to come back here and have stated that numerous times already. In fact even if Eric still had a job and Parcells expressed interest, I'd be driving Mangini to the airport. That said I don't see it as being realistic. That second crop, I just don't see who would want to come here or is available. I think if anyone I wouldn't mind maybe Fassel. But in no way shape or form do I want Marty, he's had way too many chances with too many teams to have earned the keys to this car. Shanahan I'd take but, IMO no way he comes here. Then who else? Billick? Pee YUU.

Do you see why I think that we would have been better off retaining Mangini. No other option is really plausible IMO. If we land Cowher, Shanny or Parcells well then I'll pretend that I never started this thread.

[Gyno-Tony]

now all these reports comin out sayin Mangini dint want Favr...didnt want faneca and all these FAs. that it was woody forcing a run, trying to market and sell seats, not caring about building a future....

if thats all true, then we got screwed and mangini got a bum deal..and are onwer is a ****head and dont give 2 ****s bout us fans. F himn...loser. u cant be good if ur owners a doosh. look at dallas.

and he prolly buckled under pressure of dumb ass fans like us, blaming coach.

watch mangenius goto the browns, keep romeo on, and be awesome and kick our asses. this is just great...