Debunking the PSL Pressure Myths

[Maxman]

http://www.jetnation.com/?p=1993

Debunking the PSL Pressure Myths

January 7, 2009

[joiseyjet]

http://www.jetnation.com/?p=1993

Debunking the PSL Pressure Myths

January 7, 2009

[SeniorFlaJet]

There's a big difference between the price of a seat going up $10 a game

vs. a psl for the same seat being 10 to 20 large and hundreds for the a game seat.

Also why would people on the waiting list be more inclined to purchase the psl than

people who already are season ticket holders.

Now I agree that due to theshear population numbers of the NY/NJ metro area

might be enough to sell a lot of psl's but it will take them a long time and possiblly

having to reduce the prices.

[Lil Bit Special]

I completely disagree with you.

The PSL's are not as good as sold. They will have a major problem selling them. There are too many longtime season ticket holders who will not get PSL's or tickets for the new stadium and they need to hope there are a lot of non-season ticket holders who will shell out big bucks.

The New York Jets could not care less about the fans- You're right. But in order to sell PSL's they have to put up a front that they want to win and will do whatever possible to make that happen. Sign Cowher and fans would be falling all over themselves.

2) The New York Jets will be able to sell their PSLs regardless of the Jets record. Lets face it, most fans talk a great game about never going to a game again, to only show up in the parking lot the following September. In the situations where those fans do give up their seats, a person waiting years will purchase available tickets immediately. It is the case of supply and demand in one of the biggest sports markets in the world. Sad but true my friends.

Big difference between what happens now and what will happen in 2010. PSL's are not like a ticket increase. Many fans are unhappy. The Jets better hope they have a lot of current non-season ticket holders ready to shell out the big bucks because if they are hoping the current base will be there they will be sorely mistaken.

So let me get this straight, the Jets need to make a power move not to get a winning product on the field, but to sell seat licenses? So how exactly does this work?

Yes. Woody and the Jets HOPE they will have a winning team. Having a winning team was critical this year heading into the offseason where the PSL's will be sold. They needed the good feeling that we were headed in the right direction and the fans would open their wallet. Heck, if the Jets made the Super Bowl I would have found the money somewhere.

Now that we had a terrible collapse and the fan base is pissed off and unhappy, the Jets need to make big moves now so fans will open up their wallets. Most of the PSL's are supposed to be sold BEFORE the beginning of next season. Therefore, Woody & Co. need to make a big splash in order to reenergize the fan base and get them excited about the future. 2009's record is unimportant to Woody. What is important is they give the appearance they are "trying to win"

[BwanaZulia]

The Jets better hope they have a lot of current non-season ticket holders ready to shell out the big bucks because if they are hoping the current base will be there they will be sorely mistaken.

A stadium of 80,000 seats and a 10,000 waiting list.

Sorry, but this isn't high demand.

The Giants have a 130,000 waiting list so if HALF of their ticket holders say FU and HALF of the waiting list people are full of ****, they STILL have 65,000 people willing to buy in after 40,000 left.

The math is not on the side of the Jets.

The Raiders gave up on PSLs, so can the Jets.

Raiders unveil new post-PSL ticket plan

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_/ai_n16215088

Scrapping PSL program, Raiders put tickets back in fan's hands

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20060903/ai_n16709716

BZ

[Jetfan13]

To borrow a term from a resident patsie* fan..

BINGO !!!!!

nailed it Tyson

[bobbyjet69]

A stadium of 80,000 seats and a 10,000 waiting list.

Sorry, but this isn't high demand.

The Giants have a 130,000 waiting list so if HALF of their ticket holders say FU and HALF of the waiting list people are full of ****, they STILL have 65,000 people willing to buy in after 40,000 left.

The math is not on the side of the Jets.

The Raiders gave up on PSLs, so can the Jets.

Raiders unveil new post-PSL ticket plan

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_/ai_n16215088

Scrapping PSL program, Raiders put tickets back in fan's hands

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20060903/ai_n16709716

BZ

The Raiders have a new stadium?

[Lil Bit Special]

A stadium of 80,000 seats and a 10,000 waiting list.

Sorry, but this isn't high demand.

The Giants have a 130,000 waiting list so if HALF of their ticket holders say FU and HALF of the waiting list people are full of ****, they STILL have 65,000 people willing to buy in after 40,000 left.

The math is not on the side of the Jets.

The Raiders gave up on PSLs, so can the Jets.

Raiders unveil new post-PSL ticket plan

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_/ai_n16215088

Scrapping PSL program, Raiders put tickets back in fan's hands

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20060903/ai_n16709716

BZ

Problem is if they do scrap the PSL's ticket prices will be ridiculous. Woody is going to have to recoup his money and makes tons more off the new stadium whether we like it or not.

[Green DNA]

2) The New York Jets will be able to sell their PSLs regardless of the Jets record. Lets face it, most fans talk a great game about never going to a game again, to only show up in the parking lot the following September. In the situations where those fans do give up their seats, a person waiting years will purchase available tickets immediately. It is the case of supply and demand in one of the biggest sports markets in the world. Sad but true my friends.

I totally disagree with this point. That waiting list is evaporating as we speak, especially in this economy. There are basically 4 groups of fans right now:

1) Corporations, business owners and those with deep pockets that will get the tix no matter what, probably writing the expense off as a business expense. Many business however are doing away with tickets as they are hard to justify when you are laying people off. My company dumped the Rangers and Knicks tix and a private golf club membership and I work for a large, financially secure company.

2) Regular fans that just have to keep their tickets and will grudgingly pay the PSL's because they love going to the games. This base is shrinking because of the perception that we are getting effed over.

3) Fans like myself an many others here who can afford the PSL's but out of principle will tell the Jets to stick the invoice up their a$$. I will try to move to the upper deck, but if the seats suck or are in the clouds like at Gillette, that will be the end. I believe that the majority of current ticket holders fall into this category.

4) Fans that cannot afford the PSL or the pricing of the upper deck tix. If there is a choice to be made between paying the bills and watching the Jets in person, that is an easy choice. This also screws over the younger fans who are buying tickets with their own money, they are done.

I think the Jets have overplayed their hand and the auction was the first red flag for them. Times have changed and forking over significant coin to watch a team that is almost good every year is not an option for most. Just thinking that the next guy in line will pick up the slack is not viable if there is no one in line. ans I foresee a lot of bargaining and deals on PSL's on the horizon. I laid 3 people off yesterday, all of whom were making a nice salary and were stunned at the news and all have morgages, tuition payments etc. People have an aversion to risk or a fear of overextending themselves right now because who knows what tomorrow brings. The Jets are effed IMO.

[ECURB]

The seats will sell... those of you who think they wont are crazy... its not like there are a bunch of idiots running this thing... these are well educated folks who know their stuff and did their homework... if needed they will adjust costs and make sure they sell... (most likely the same thought process behind leaving some seats without PSL's)

Also BZ... 10,000 people on the waiting list means at least 20k if not 30k seats to be taken... and possibly more... add into that the already 70k seats called for... and the fact that not all 80k will have PSl's...

Trust me... being a guy who lives in CT and has to usually pay top dollar for a good seat on Ebay... I would love for them not to sell out... it would drive down prices...

Wont happen though.

[Green DNA]

if needed they will adjust costs and make sure they sell... (most likely the same thought process behind leaving some seats without PSL's)

So much for the smary guys doing their homework. If they do this, they miscalculated. Putting something on the clearance rack to get rid of it does not make it a popular item and does not make the person selling it smart. It actaully points to a big oooopppss!

[124]

There is no more than 7,000 on the waiting list and the waiting list continues to shrink. How else can you explain people who were 4,000 in March getting offered season tickets?

Fans are turning down the tickets, CEO's and companies are buying them up. Yes the seats will sell, and yes the current fans do a ****ty job of filling them anyway, but the seats will be half as full as they are now in November and December unless the team is 5-2.

[BwanaZulia]

The seats will sell... those of you who think they wont are crazy... its not like there are a bunch of idiots running this thing... these are well educated folks who know their stuff and did their homework... if needed they will adjust costs and make sure they sell... (most likely the same thought process behind leaving some seats without PSL's)

Also BZ... 10,000 people on the waiting list means at least 20k if not 30k seats to be taken... and possibly more... add into that the already 70k seats called for... and the fact that not all 80k will have PSl's...

10,000 is not a real number. It is dropping quickly.

As for all the "smart guys" running it, I don't think they are that smart. The Jets and Giants should have come up with the EXACT same PSL plan, worked together and made a united effort. Doing it separately was not smart at all.

This will not go well for the Jets. The first thing people give up on in an bad economy is entertainment (travel, going out, tickets, etc).

BZ

[4HCrew]

The tough economy will make it a challenge for the Jets but I can see them rolling out financing programs to help ease the pain. The stadium will be sold out prior to the start of the 2010 season...the Jets can care less who it is filled with

[BwanaZulia]

I don't know what company you guys work at, but at mine (VERY LARGE FINANCIAL) they are cutting back on EVERYTHING.

I can't imagine companies going for MORE tickets now.

BZ

[Maxman]

I don't know what company you guys work at, but at mine (VERY LARGE FINANCIAL) they are cutting back on EVERYTHING.

I can't imagine companies going for MORE tickets now.

BZ

I work for a small software company and yes the same thing here. If they can cut back on it, they have or are about to. Everyone is cutting back. Big time.

I think the Jets have a nightmare on their hands. At a minimum they have to slow down from the original schedule. No way they can wrap this up in the spring of 2009. Ain't nobody buying right now.

[BwanaZulia]

I work for a small software company and yes the same thing here. If they can cut back on it, they have or are about to. Everyone is cutting back. Big time.

I think the Jets have a nightmare on their hands. At a minimum they have to slow down from the original schedule. No way they can wrap this up in the spring of 2009. Ain't nobody buying right now.

Yup, they should slow it down, make the payments longer term and possibly offer packages for certain sets of games.

Either way... they are ****ed and thusly we are ****ed.

BZ

[joewilly]

I totally disagree with this point. That waiting list is evaporating as we speak, especially in this economy. There are basically 4 groups of fans right now:

1) Corporations, business owners and those with deep pockets that will get the tix no matter what, probably writing the expense off as a business expense. Many business however are doing away with tickets as they are hard to justify when you are laying people off. My company dumped the Rangers and Knicks tix and a private golf club membership and I work for a large, financially secure company.

2) Regular fans that just have to keep their tickets and will grudgingly pay the PSL's because they love going to the games. This base is shrinking because of the perception that we are getting effed over.

3) Fans like myself an many others here who can afford the PSL's but out of principle will tell the Jets to stick the invoice up their a$$. I will try to move to the upper deck, but if the seats suck or are in the clouds like at Gillette, that will be the end. I believe that the majority of current ticket holders fall into this category.

4) Fans that cannot afford the PSL or the pricing of the upper deck tix. If there is a choice to be made between paying the bills and watching the Jets in person, that is an easy choice. This also screws over the younger fans who are buying tickets with their own money, they are done.

I think the Jets have overplayed their hand and the auction was the first red flag for them. Times have changed and forking over significant coin to watch a team that is almost good every year is not an option for most. Just thinking that the next guy in line will pick up the slack is not viable if there is no one in line. ans I foresee a lot of bargaining and deals on PSL's on the horizon. I laid 3 people off yesterday, all of whom were making a nice salary and were stunned at the news and all have morgages, tuition payments etc. People have an aversion to risk or a fear of overextending themselves right now because who knows what tomorrow brings. The Jets are effed IMO.

great post dna. question for ya though. these 3 that you laid off, were they season ticket holders in the upperdecks?

[Green DNA]

great post dna. question for ya though. these 3 that you laid off, were they season ticket holders in the upperdecks?

Damn, you can see right through me, I made a predatory offer of 20 cents on the dollar for the rights to their tix.

[Gainzo]

10,000 is not a real number. It is dropping quickly.

As for all the "smart guys" running it, I don't think they are that smart. The Jets and Giants should have come up with the EXACT same PSL plan, worked together and made a united effort. Doing it separately was not smart at all.

This will not go well for the Jets. The first thing people give up on in an bad economy is entertainment (travel, going out, tickets, etc).

BZ

I will never understand why they didn't get together and form a combined marketing plan.

This isn't football related as it's from Peter Gammons but he makes sense on what is going on right now in pro sports.

On whether the economy is affecting the free agent market for players like Manny Ramirez and Adam Dunn:

Gammons: In a state like Ohio . . . the economics are really bad. The Indians may have had the best offseason of anyone [signing reliever Kerry Wood, among others], and they can't sell tickets. On the front page of the Sunday New York Times, there was a story that 10-12 major Broadway shows are closing down this month, the most ever. And I kind of compare that . . . they're luxury items the way baseball games have become luxury items, and I think that may be a tell-tale sign about the economy.

I sold my 3 Pats season tix this season because of the cost. But I will be back at Foxboro in September of 2009 as a friend of mine is going to buy one of the tix and my Dad is going to buy the other one.

If there was a PSL involved I wouldn't even think about renewing my tickets.

[Maxman]

I will never understand why they didn't get together and form a combined marketing plan.

This isn't football related as it's from Peter Gammons but he makes sense on what is going on right now in pro sports.

I sold my 3 Pats season tix this season because of the cost. But I will be back at Foxboro in September of 2009 as a friend of mine is going to buy one of the tix and my Dad is going to buy the other one.

If there was a PSL involved I wouldn't even think about renewing my tickets.

The Yankees are going to run into that wall eventually. The new stadium will save them this year though.

[Bugg]

The Yankees are going to run into that wall eventually. The new stadium will save them this year though.

My understanding from a relative who is associated with a NY sports franchise is that both the Yankees and Mets are right now running into a wall selling their luxury boxes and high end season tickets. In this economy the first thing most people see as easy to cut is spending thousands on something you could just as easily watch in HD from your couch. And this relative indicates that both the Jets and Giants are a whole bunch more apprehensive than they were when this new stadium project was drawn up.The economy has changed dramtically. Wall Street is shutting down, so the big spenders(spare that a-hole mortgage broker), are cutting costs and expenses. Doesn't matter how rich you are, spending thousands for 1 ballgame is too expensive.

What burns me-Woody Johnson in his firing conference made it seem like having Brett Favre throwing the ball around(without conscience, as Boomer Esisason described)would be a greater value to Jets fans than winning football games. We've all watched enough bad football to know winning beats everything, period. This is lost on Richie Rich.

Our owner thinks us idiots.

Suspect that Mangini deserved to be fired. He's the HC. He could've told Schottenheimer to pull the horns in run the ball and grind it out over the last 5 games. He didn't. Good luck in Cleveland.

But can understand how he would've been displeased that marketing took priority over football. Don't think Pennington would've won more games, but it's clear the owner doesn't understand that you cannot parachute in a new QB when your entire offense was planned and geared to be run a specific way since March of 2008.

And I don't like it that there clearly is no plan or flow chart to this interview process. This is how things get effed up all over again.

[BaumerJet]

Why would people on the waiting list be more inclined to purchase the psl than

people who already are season ticket holders?

Senior, Woody Johnson has never taken into consideration that most of the New York Jets Season Ticket holder Fan Base are in the Lower Middle Class bracket. Even going back to the days of the now defunct "Manhattan Project" the organization has always planned to sell most of their high value seats to those who can pay - CORPORATIONS.

Now think about it:

1. Corporations can write off 80% of the PSL in the 1st year as a business expense by just giving away tickets to their sales staff on a weekly basis


1. The sales staff in turn can give them away to their clients - as a bonus incentive
   

[*]Coporations can also afford the cost of food - high end items

1. This aids the ancillary (remember that word - I will be using that a lot) profits for those who only go to 1-2 games instead of the full season ticket holder who may buy something for maybe one game a season
   

[*]Corporations can afford to rent hotel & other ancelliry space in the new tailgating zone prior to gameday

1. Again, this aids both the corporation (80% tax writeoff) and the organizaiton (ancillary) by offering full service accomodations for extra days prior to an event/game
   
2. This also gives room for special "Tailgating" for a sponsored company, not just at one location but at multiple locations around the new stadium (an even higher profit gain)
   

As many of us have been trying to advise (my self included) since the very thought of a new stadium (Manhattan, New Rochelle, Queens or NJ).

And as for a reduction - It will never happen - Corporations & sponsors will change all of that.

Especially since no NFL team has ever lowered the price of a PSL...

[Sperm Edwards]

I think the gist of it is that it is a small percentage of people that aren't spending between $2,000 and $100,000 (depending on the # of seats), whose minds would suddenly change because Bill Cowher or Brett Favre came to town.

I'd allow that there might be some. A group of those on the fence who saw a big name and made that a tie-breaker in the decision-making. But most fans are either spending the money on PSL's or they aren't.

Retaining or not retaining Brett Favre for one more season is going to have little (if any) impact on PSL sales.

[SeniorFlaJet]

As an aside to this discussion, unless I have missed it, I don't think the Jets/Giants

have sold the naming rights yet to the new stadium. Also I think they haven't

sold all the 4 entrances they were putting up for sale.

It will be interesting to see how that works out.

[Maxman]

As an aside to this discussion, unless I have missed it, I don't think the Jets/Giants

have sold the naming rights yet to the new stadium. Also I think they haven't

sold all the 4 entrances they were putting up for

It will be interesting to see how that works out.

Good point. Really good point. It seemed like they were annoucing things about once a month and then the wheels fell off and they haven't talked publicly about anything lately.

[BaumerJet]

As an aside to this discussion, unless I have missed it, I don't think the Jets/Giants

have sold the naming rights yet to the new stadium. Also I think they haven't

sold all the 4 entrances they were putting up for sale.

It will be interesting to see how that works out.

They have sold 3 of the 4 entrances:

1. Met Life
   
2. Budweiser
   
3. Bud Light
   
4. 
   

You are right though, the toughest one will be the corporate sponsor for the stadium name, I expect it could be from an industry that is still making a profit. I would not be surprised to see an EXXON/MOBIL stadium by early 2009.

[BwanaZulia]

They have sold 3 of the 4 entrances:

1. Met Life
   
2. Budweiser
   
3. Bud Light
   
4. 
   

You are right though, the toughest one will be the corporate sponsor for the stadium name, I expect it could be from an industry that is still making a profit. I would not be surprised to see an EXXON/MOBIL stadium by early 2009.

Are you sure both Bud and Bud lite are two different sponsors?

I think only Bud signed, so they have 3 more to sell (2 corners and the name).

BZ

[4HCrew]

Good point. Really good point. It seemed like they were annoucing things about once a month and then the wheels fell off and they haven't talked publicly about anything lately.

They also may not want to announce the money they are raking in prior to sending out the PSL information this March

[Green DNA]

They have sold 3 of the 4 entrances:

1. Met Life
   
2. Budweiser
   
3. Bud Light
   

Holy crap, selling the entrances now? What's next:

Taking a leak in the Flomax urinals?

Taking a dump in the Charmin stall?

Sitting in the Preparation H seats?

[BaumerJet]

Are you sure both Bud and Bud lite are two different sponsors?

I think only Bud signed, so they have 3 more to sell (2 corners and the name).

BZ

They bought 2 entrances - Just like they have done in every other stadium they have sponsored.

It's both.

I would not be surprised that when the Jets/Giants stadium org reveals the Soft Drink distributor, that they take the final entrance name.

[Gainzo]

BZ made a great point that everyone ignored:

Why didn't the Jets and Giants work together to form a marketing plan and price all PSL's and seats at the same level?

The Jets and Giants will play in the exact same Stadium in 2010 so why are the PSL's and ticket prices different?

[Maxman]

BZ made a great point that everyone ignored:

Why didn't the Jets and Giants work together to form a marketing plan and price all PSL's and seats at the same level?

The Jets and Giants will play in the exact same Stadium in 2010 so why are the PSL's and ticket prices different?

The Jets and the Giants work together?

[joiseyjet]

BZ made a great point that everyone ignored:

Why didn't the Jets and Giants work together to form a marketing plan and price all PSL's and seats at the same level?

The Jets and Giants will play in the exact same Stadium in 2010 so why are the PSL's and ticket prices different?

Because Woody is Greedyer then the Mara`s are!

[SeniorFlaJet]

BZ made a great point that everyone ignored:

Why didn't the Jets and Giants work together to form a marketing plan and price all PSL's and seats at the same level?

The Jets and Giants will play in the exact same Stadium in 2010 so why are the PSL's and ticket prices different?

The obvious answer to that would be that each team's financial situation is different.

The Giants have been firmly entrenched in the NFL for 100 years whereas Woody

is a recent owner with a lot more debt around his neck than the Giants.

They can get together on construction type things but as far as finances are concerned,

there has to be a big disparity.