jack48 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Are we still looking for "Mangini guys?" Will they now be "Tannenbaum guys?" Or will there be neither? Watching this game and all this nastiness and mayhem, I am thinking: "boy, we could use a little of this. Along with some speed and athleticism." I am just wondering if this concept of the type of player they want moved on with Mangini. He always seemed to be calling the shots anyway. Also, now that Mangini is gone, who will pick the players? Does anyone think Mr T. really was responsible for evaluating and getting talent? I think they were a tandem,with Mangini the dominant one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Jet Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Interesting question Jack. I assumed it was an organizational decision as opposed to just Mangini's. The Bills are doing the same thing. IMO I don't think the Jets need the distractions that players like TO or Pacman bring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Are we still looking for "Mangini guys?" Will they now be "Tannenbaum guys?" Or will there be neither? Watching this game and all this nastiness and mayhem, I am thinking: "boy, we could use a little of this. Along with some speed and athleticism." I am just wondering if this concept of the type of player they want moved on with Mangini. He always seemed to be calling the shots anyway. Also, now that Mangini is gone, who will pick the players? Does anyone think Mr T. really was responsible for evaluating and getting talent? I think they were a tandem,with Mangini the dominant one. I'm sure we'll name after whoever the new coach is...but we really need to get more speed and athleticism on our team. The way I understood the arrangement Mangini and the scouts built the draft board and Mr. T turned in the card. Hopefully, the next coach has and eye for talent and some ability in coaching his picks to be better players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 Interesting question Jack. I assumed it was an organizational decision as opposed to just Mangini's. The Bills are doing the same thing. IMO I don't think the Jets need the distractions that players like TO or Pacman bring. I wasn't thinking of a-holes like that, just whether we would base our picks on GPAs or Wunderlichs, or whether the guy was an Eagle scout or not. Also concerned if Tannenbaum has enough expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Really good post. It is an interesting thought because you are right they wanted Mangini guys, smart off the field, leaders, team captains. Didn't quite work out. After the spending spree last year, I think they will just settle for, "Veteran Minimum guys". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 Really good post. It is an interesting thought because you are right they wanted Mangini guys, smart off the field, leaders, team captains. Didn't quite work out. After the spending spree last year, I think they will just settle for, "Veteran Minimum guys". You knowm it is a playmakers league. As smart a coach as BB is, he has had a great DL, he had a great secondary his first year or two as well, he has had Moss, and he has had Brady. You need players, not character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 You knowm it is a playmakers league. As smart a coach as BB is, he has had a great DL, he had a great secondary his first year or two as well, he has had Moss, and he has had Brady. You need players, not character. I think you need both. You can't build with a bunch of players with no discipline, look no further than the Bengals to realize that won't work. Ideally, you'd love to have players with both extreme talent AND character. I don't think anyone would be against having a bunch of Ronnie Lott types on their team, guys who are both insane playmakers with high character at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 I think you need both. You can't build with a bunch of players with no discipline, look no further than the Bengals to realize that won't work. Ideally, you'd love to have players with both extreme talent AND character. I don't think anyone would be against having a bunch of Ronnie Lott types on their team, guys who are both insane playmakers with high character at the same time. I agree. Do you think Tannenbaum has been picking these guys? If not, do you think he is capable of picking personnel? Should we be getting a personnel guy to "assist" him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I agree. Do you think Tannenbaum has been picking these guys? If not, do you think he is capable of picking personnel? I think the Jets have been doing personnel by committee. Bradway, as director of college scouting, Mangini and Tannnbaum all had their say on draft day but I think they deferred to Mangini probably for the final say since he was the guy who had to coach them. Tannenbaum, contrary to popular belief, is not merely an accountant or lawyer. The guy's been around the game for quite some time now and worked with and for some pretty damned impressive football people. He has certainly learned a lot from guys like Parcells, Belichick, Weis, Crennel, Henning, Bradway, and others. Woody gave him an open checkbook this past offseason and he got everyone he targeted. He convinced guys like Faneca to sign with a team coming off a 4-12 season that they would have a shot at a Super Bowl if they came to the Jets. Faneca got a monster deal but claimed he turned down a bigger offer to come to New York. He outmaneuvered Parcells to sign Pace. He made a great deal to get Jenkins and made sure that if the Favre move didn't work out it wouldn't be too costly. But I think the most impressive thing Tanny's done is not going after guys after the 2006 season just to get guys. A lot of people have killed Mangini and Tannenbaum and Woody for not opening up the checkbook after Mangini's first year despite the fact that the Jets still had some glaring holes. Many interpreted it as the Jets FO thinking they were better than they really were but the fact was, the players they needed either weren't available or would have been too expensive at the time. Sometimes the best move you make is the one you don't. So the only major move they made was getting Thomas Jones and all that cost was a swap of second rounders, so in other words, they gave up literally nothing to get him. Tanny has also been brilliant at wheeling and dealing on draft day to get the guys the Jets wanted and almost all of those moves worked out. The guy is simply getting a bad rap. If you really break down everything he's done as GM you really can't kill the guy at all because he's done a great job. This notion that a new head coach wouldn't want to work with him is an invention of fantasy based on this ridiculous notion that the Jets are cursed in some way. I continue to be amazed at the hatred spewed at this franchise by the national media. I have never seen a team that has been generally unsuccessful so universally hated and at times unfairly criticized for their incompetence. Usually this type of venom is saved for teams that are great. One needs to look no further than the media's embarrassing need to invent stories surrounding the Bill Cowher situation at their ridiculously nonsensical need to kill this team. And you know what? It makes me love the Jets even more. Because when we do finally win the Super Bowl, it will have the added value of being a big "**** YOU" to the world. What could be more New York than that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 I think the Jets have been doing personnel by committee. Bradway, as director of college scouting, Mangini and Tannnbaum all had their say on draft day but I think they deferred to Mangini probably for the final say since he was the guy who had to coach them. Tannenbaum, contrary to popular belief, is not merely an accountant or lawyer. The guy's been around the game for quite some time now and worked with and for some pretty damned impressive football people. He has certainly learned a lot from guys like Parcells, Belichick, Weis, Crennel, Henning, Bradway, and others. Woody gave him an open checkbook this past offseason and he got everyone he targeted. He convinced guys like Faneca to sign with a team coming off a 4-12 season that they would have a shot at a Super Bowl if they came to the Jets. Faneca got a monster deal but claimed he turned down a bigger offer to come to New York. He outmaneuvered Parcells to sign Pace. He made a great deal to get Jenkins and made sure that if the Favre move didn't work out it wouldn't be too costly. But I think the most impressive thing Tanny's done is not going after guys after the 2006 season just to get guys. A lot of people have killed Mangini and Tannenbaum and Woody for not opening up the checkbook after Mangini's first year despite the fact that the Jets still had some glaring holes. Many interpreted it as the Jets FO thinking they were better than they really were but the fact was, the players they needed either weren't available or would have been too expensive at the time. Sometimes the best move you make is the one you don't. So the only major move they made was getting Thomas Jones and all that cost was a swap of second rounders, so in other words, they gave up literally nothing to get him. Tanny has also been brilliant at wheeling and dealing on draft day to get the guys the Jets wanted and almost all of those moves worked out. The guy is simply getting a bad rap. If you really break down everything he's done as GM you really can't kill the guy at all because he's done a great job. This notion that a new head coach wouldn't want to work with him is an invention of fantasy based on this ridiculous notion that the Jets are cursed in some way. I continue to be amazed at the hatred spewed at this franchise by the national media. I have never seen a team that has been generally unsuccessful so universally hated and at times unfairly criticized for their incompetence. Usually this type of venom is saved for teams that are great. One needs to look no further than the media's embarrassing need to invent stories surrounding the Bill Cowher situation at their ridiculously nonsensical need to kill this team. And you know what? It makes me love the Jets even more. Because when we do finally win the Super Bowl, it will have the added value of being a big "**** YOU" to the world. What could be more New York than that? I also defended them on this board for not just going after "guys". Save the cap space for when you will really need it. l have no large gripe with their drafts, for the most part. I was not a big Gholston guy but I could see where they were almost forced to take him. For the most part, I like their drafts. I keep screaming for a speedy, good wideout but that is my fixation. It is just that I have always thought Mangini was the force behind all drafts and FA gets. Until the Favre thing, of course. I never felt that he was hot for Favre. No question Tanny can make a trade or negotiate a contract for a FA. He is also probably a pretty good salesman for the team. I just wonder if he can build a team, if he has a vision, or if he needs additional front office help. I see Mangini was after Kokinis again in Baltimore. Someone like that might be very very useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I also defended them on this board for not just going after "guys". Save the cap space for when you will really need it. l have no large gripe with their drafts, for the most part. I was not a big Gholston guy but I could see where they were almost forced to take him. For the most part, I like their drafts. I keep screaming for a speedy, good wideout but that is my fixation. It is just that I have always thought Mangini was the force behind all drafts and FA gets. Until the Favre thing, of course. I never felt that he was hot for Favre. No question Tanny can make a trade or negotiate a contract for a FA. He is also probably a pretty good salesman for the team. I just wonder if he can build a team, if he has a vision, or if he needs additional front office help. I see Mangini was after Kokinis again in Baltimore. Someone like that might be very very useful. People also don't give Terry Bradway nearly enough credit for his scouting the last couple of years. Since he stepped down as GM and became director of college scouting he has done a very good job. I think Tannenbaum really values his opinion on the draft and he really is the guy who advises on personnel more than anyone in the organization. Bradway is just not the GM type but he is an outstanding talent evaluator. Look at how badly the Chiefs have drafted since he left as opposed to how well they did when he was running their scouting department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mangold747 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 You guys do realize that Tannenbaum has a great group of pro and college personnel people working under him? Tannenbaum is the guy negotiating contracts, talking trade but these guys are responsible for evaluating talent. Scott Cohen- Assistant GM Joey Clinkscales- VP of College Scouting Terry Bradway- Senior Personnel Executive Michael Davis- Assistant Director of College Scouting I'm sure all of these guys are involved in the hiring of a new a coach and in all personnel decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 You guys do realize that Tannenbaum has a great group of pro and college personnel people working under him? Tannenbaum is the guy negotiating contracts, talking trade but these guys are responsible for evaluating talent. Scott Cohen- Assistant GM Joey Clinkscales- VP of College Scouting Terry Bradway- Senior Personnel Executive Michael Davis- Assistant Director of College Scouting I'm sure all of these guys are involved in the hiring of a new a coach and in all personnel decisions. Every team has personnel guys. I am worried about who makes the final call. I am sure it has been Mangini up to this point. Usually a GM has a vision of the kind of team he wants. He hires an appropriate coach. I guess I question whether Tanny has the "vision" thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 People also don't give Terry Bradway nearly enough credit for his scouting the last couple of years. Since he stepped down as GM and became director of college scouting he has done a very good job. I think Tannenbaum really values his opinion on the draft and he really is the guy who advises on personnel more than anyone in the organization. Bradway is just not the GM type but he is an outstanding talent evaluator. Look at how badly the Chiefs have drafted since he left as opposed to how well they did when he was running their scouting department. bURP BT and Vernon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 bURP BT and Vernon Leon Washington, Kerry Rhodes, Jerricho Cotchery, Dustin Keller, David Harris, Nick Mangold, D'Brickshaw Ferguson, Darrelle Revis. His hits completely outweigh his misses and BT was great early in the year in '08 when he was being used properly but how many times was he even used as a pass rusher the last 10 weeks of the season? Plus, the book is still out on Vernon so you're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBleedGangGreen12 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Are we still looking for "Mangini guys?" Will they now be "Tannenbaum guys?" Or will there be neither? Watching this game and all this nastiness and mayhem, I am thinking: "boy, we could use a little of this. Along with some speed and athleticism." I am just wondering if this concept of the type of player they want moved on with Mangini. He always seemed to be calling the shots anyway. Also, now that Mangini is gone, who will pick the players? Does anyone think Mr T. really was responsible for evaluating and getting talent? I think they were a tandem,with Mangini the dominant one. I agree, really good post. I think you can still get the "character" guys that have that mean streak (i.e. Troy Polamalu) and team chemistry plays a HUGE part of a successful team (just look at the Cowboys or our late season collapse). Regardless of who picks these guys, the organization needs to do a better job of evaluating talent! Less combine, more game tape! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Leon Washington, Kerry Rhodes, Jerricho Cotchery, Dustin Keller, David Harris, Nick Mangold, D'Brickshaw Ferguson, Darrelle Revis. His hits completely outweigh his misses and BT was great early in the year in '08 when he was being used properly but how many times was he even used as a pass rusher the last 10 weeks of the season? Plus, the book is still out on Vernon so you're wrong. BT over Ed Reed..that is all you have to know about TB what about traded up for Dslob!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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