aec4 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 This just came to me. Just like the majority, I want both gone. However, there is a subset of people who love Schottenheimer but EVERYONE wants Sutton gone. The excuse people use for Schottenheimer is that Mangini would not let him run the offense the way he wanted to. OK, if you buy that argument (it could be right for all I know), why doesn't the same apply for Sutton? Again, I think Sutton needs to go, but I wonder why one gets the benefit of the doubt and the other doesn't. Neither has a track record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 This just came to me. Just like the majority, I want both gone. However, there is a subset of people who love Schottenheimer but EVERYONE wants Sutton gone. The excuse people use for Schottenheimer is that Mangini would not let him run the offense the way he wanted to. OK, if you buy that argument (it could be right for all I know), why doesn't the same apply for Sutton? Again, I think Sutton needs to go, but I wonder why one gets the benefit of the doubt and the other doesn't. Neither has a track record. Becuase people are irrational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJ667 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 ain't double standards a bitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Because Schottenheimer is the bright young mind while Sutton is the old man who failed and hasn't done anything big in all his years of coaching, has no big name attached to him, and his defense has been worse than Schottenheimer's offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 Because Schottenheimer is the bright young mind while Sutton is the old man who failed and hasn't done anything big in all his years of coaching, has no big name attached to him, and his defense has been worse than Schottenheimer's offense. 1) Who cares how old he is, he's not playing 2) Who cares what his last name is, it doesn't change anything 3) Both have sucked. Once you cross the line of "suck" it doesn't matter how far below it you are. My point is if Sutton sucks, why doesn't Schottenheimer. It's time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Because Schottenheimer doesn't suck? Its as simple as that. And even if you yourself want to disgard it, the name plays a lot inside the NFL and with a lot of fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 Because Schottenheimer doesn't suck? Its as simple as that. And even if you yourself want to disgard it, the name plays a lot inside the NFL and with a lot of fans. He doesn't suck? ummm.... Ever look at our offense in a big spot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 He doesn't suck? ummm.... Ever look at our offense in a big spot? Ever noticed what we had behind center in those "big spots"? Average QB's with no No.1 target at Receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatic Bus Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Becuase people are irrational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 Ever noticed what we had behind center in those "big spots"? Average QB's with no No.1 target at Receiver. No excuse... or otherwise the excuses work on both sides of the ball. (Although what you say is true). Only thing you have going for you in your argument is in 2006 our offense was creative... then Mangini put an end to it. Use that as your argument and you could win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 No excuse... or otherwise the excuses work on both sides of the ball. (Although what you say is true). Only thing you have going for you in your argument is in 2006 our offense was creative... then Mangini put an end to it. Use that as your argument and you could win. Our offense was creative early on this year as well until Mangini panicked after the Bronco game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatic Bus Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Our offense was creative early on this year as well until Mangini panicked after the Bronco game. he never changed the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Everyone on our staff needs to be gone. Both stink of the Mangini smell. Time to move on. Lots of coaches out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 Our offense was creative early on this year as well until Mangini panicked after the Bronco game. I don't agree. We were way too pass happy with a team that was set up to pound the rock. As soon as we had 1 running play for 0 yards we stopped running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green DNA Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Double execution. Schottenheimer horribly misused Leon Washington. That alone should get him canned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberjet Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 The problem is that people assume that you have to be a great coordinator or have success as a coordinator in order to be a great head coach. There are tons of 'GREAT' coordinators who fail as head coaches. Likewise, there are virtual unknowns or coordinators on not so successful teams that become great head coaches. WHY? It would be simple if objective criteria defined what makes up a great head coach, but it doesn't. The conference that Johnson and Mr T had on Mangini's firing was the most honest and simple explanation. Johnson said much of why he fired Mangini was subjective, ie. not one particular objective failure that led to his firing. Reporters howled at how 'feeble and bumbling' Johnson was in his excuse for firing Mangini. The simpletons wanted ' he lost the locker room', ' that last stretch is unacceptable', ' he failed to make the necessary adjustments at half time' explanations. Though they MAY all play a role, the bottom line is that after working with Mangini for three years, a working relationship that was fairly close Johnson pulled the plug because he felt Mangini didn't have 'IT' to bring his team to the next level. It wasn't that Mangini wasn't smart enough or didn't have good organizational skills - he has all that. I think we have to give Johnson the benefit of the doubt, (given his business acumen and experience working with executives), that when he has worked with a man for three years and looks into his eyes and observes the results - he has a pretty good read about the man's leadership capabilities. He felt Mangini at this time in his career had not developed it. Schottenheimer, on the other hand has the smarts, the organizational skills and the charisma / leadership qualities that Johnson admires. Schottenheimer also has very good connections in the NFL. Make no mistake - this is Schottenheimer's job to lose. He has raised the bar very high and Rex Ryan is gonna have to blow Johnson out of the water to push aside Schottenheimer. Personally from what I read about Schottenheimer, he appears to have traits that are head coach material. I would welcome him as HC instead of the flavor of the month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 This just came to me. Just like the majority, I want both gone. However, there is a subset of people who love Schottenheimer but EVERYONE wants Sutton gone. The excuse people use for Schottenheimer is that Mangini would not let him run the offense the way he wanted to. OK, if you buy that argument (it could be right for all I know), why doesn't the same apply for Sutton? Again, I think Sutton needs to go, but I wonder why one gets the benefit of the doubt and the other doesn't. Neither has a track record. Schott is getting the benefit of the doubt. i.e. Mangini tinkered on offense and held him back. Sutton has a larger body of work (mostly as a positional coach) and the perception is that Mangini wanted to be more aggressive. And Sutton held the defense back. Is it true? Who knows but public perception is tough to sway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Schott is getting the benefit of the doubt. i.e. Mangini tinkered on offense and held him back. Sutton has a larger body of work (mostly as a positional coach) and the perception is that Mangini wanted to be more aggressive. And Sutton held the defense back. Is it true? Who knows but public perception is tough to sway. thats wrong... mangini had NOTHING to do with the offense... it was all shotty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 And even if you yourself want to disgard it, the name plays a lot inside the NFL and with a lot of fans. That's right, just as Rex Ryan's last name is an asset. It represents a pedigree and a network of NFL connections. Schottenheimer's still very young. Besides the pedigree, all accounts suggest that he's really bright. He's been preparing to be a coach in the NFL dating back to his college playing days (and probably before). The talent he's been asked to work with on the Jets has been sub-par at best. I'm far from sold on Schottie, but I don't deal with him privately, either. The flip side is Sutton, who has no buzz about him at all. There's speculation that he's just a figurehead who run Mangini's defense; certainly not a positive. Frankly, I don't understand how Sutton has lasted this long. He must have some strong ties within the organization. I suspect that if (when) he's let go, he won't be coaching in the NFL anymore. Schottenheimer -if he's let go- will most likely have his choice of landing spots. Has nothing to do with the fans' opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Yet for all the misfitting, bust-acquisition personnel, and maddening gameplans, Sutton's group never ranked outside the top-20 in yards or points in 3 seasons. Schottenheimer's half of the team: #25 or below in yards or points 3x. Way different than Ryan. The only time they were about that low was when last year's offense turned the ball over 40x (including 26 lost-fumbles). The disparity in yardage (where they ranked #6) tells me that a whole lot of those turnovers came in Baltimore territory. This year they turned the ball over half that amount and they're top-3 in both yards & points. To assign that as mere coincidence is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 suton out for sure.. schott i am iffy,,i think he would have run a solid run oriented kill clock offense if chad stayed and we would have fared well,,favre f'ked things up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boynton Beach Jets Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 This just came to me. Just like the majority, I want both gone. However, there is a subset of people who love Schottenheimer but EVERYONE wants Sutton gone. The excuse people use for Schottenheimer is that Mangini would not let him run the offense the way he wanted to. OK, if you buy that argument (it could be right for all I know), why doesn't the same apply for Sutton? Again, I think Sutton needs to go, but I wonder why one gets the benefit of the doubt and the other doesn't. Neither has a track record. I hope if Rex Ryan is named coach of the Jets that Schotty Jr. & Callahan stays because we need continuity on offense. Sutton is a goner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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