The Case for Rex to Retain Mini-Schott as OC (if Rex Hired)

[SMC]

Because I want the extra vCash, I'm starting this thread. As you guys may know, I've been the lone voice, or perhaps only 1 of a handful, who wanted (past tense important) Brain Schottenheimer to be HC.

The reasons was: (1) continuity for the offense and the young QBs (Clemens, Ratliff & Ainge) and (2) I believe he is a good offensive mind. He showed great creativity in 2006. He did a pretty good job of changing the offense on the fly to suit Favre until everything fell apart. And the offense scored 405 pts, 3rd most in franchise history.

Yes, there were detractors, many of you in fact, but I believe the Jets were a playoff team in 2008 undermined by an abysmal coaching job by Eric Mangini. As such, what we need to to is upgrade the 2 areas Mangini was involved in: (HC & DC because Sutton was merely a puppet).

NOW, with Rex Ryan emerging as the lead candidate (according to reports there is mutual love going on), I'm 100% behind the hiring of Rex. The reasons below:

(1) Resume; (2) aggressiveness; (3) 3-4 defense, and (4) Mike Pettine comes with him as DC.

Thus, where the Jets were hurt by Mangini, there will be an immediate upgrade in Rex and Pettine. Now the Jets would be in a better coaching situation for 2009 than 2008 with the team retaining Mini-Schott and Westhoff.

Let the offense and Special Teams be what they are under Rex's overall stewardship and let Rex & Pettine install a rabid, attacking 3-4 defense rather than the read-and-react passive 3-4 defense letting the opposing offense have 18 play drives that tire us out.

With Mini-Schott as OC, you have the young QB tri-fecta not having to learn a new playbook. The Oline continues the comraderie from last year knowing the playbook. I also want to retain Bill Callahan because of what he did with the OLine and running game. Plus, I know this is unpopular, but if Favre comes back he will be coming back to a system he knows. ALSO, I think Rex, by his natural demeanor, will be able to handle Favre better than Mangini.

Mangini is a short, fat, bubblegum chewing school principal that people like but no one respects or fears. Rex is a big, fat, foul mouthed mountain man whom people would not be surprised to see on America's most wanted. Essentially, Rex looks like someone Favre knows back home.

And, remember, Rex has experience in having a coordinator retained by a new HC and it not being a problem. It happened with him with Harbaugh's signing by the Ravens.

So, for what's best for the 2009 Jets to compete for the division and deep playoff drive, this is the coaching staff we need:

HC - Rex Ryan

OC - Brian Schottenheimer & Bill Callahan

DC - Mike Pettine

ST - Mike Westhoff

Everyone's thoughts are greatly appreciated (including personal attacks ). Thanks!

[madmike1]

The blind spot some Jets have for martyball jr is really amazing.

[CTM]

SMC, my biggest problem is that Mini Schott showed the same inability to adapt to what the other team was doing as Mangina. It wasn't just the defense that got worse as the game wore on, and I'd promise that ever season he's been here we've scored more in the first halves then second halves. It seems as though as soon as we get off script he was lost.

[SMC]

I don't have a problem with that coaching staff, but I'd prefer it if the new head man were treated like the head coach and not made a bitch off the bat. Let him pick his own assistants and if he picks those I'm fine with it.

I also think Callahan gets way too much credit here. By all accounts he did a fine job, but it's a lot easier to work with Faneca and Woody than Clements and Clarke. Richardson and Franks didn't hurt the running game any either.

I definately want the HC to chose his staff and not made a bitch off the bat.

BUT, just look at Rex. Does he look like anyone's bitch? I don't believe anything can be forced on him. I believe it's logical for him to want to retain Mini-Schott for the reasons I mentioned.

The Jets are in a win-now mode. They can't afford a step back with the aging vets they have. That doesn't make sense. They need a HC who can improve on what they've done with minimal bumps.

As to Callahan, I see your point. He did have a better line to work with, but he did do a good job with what he had.

[CTM]

Agreed with Dominator about Callahan, way too much credit here. Our Oline has 4 first rounders on it for cripes sakes

btw, where did that post go?

[SMC]

SMC, my biggest problem is that Mini Schott showed the same inability to adapt to what the other team was doing as Mangina. It wasn't just the defense that got worse as the game wore on, and I'd promise that ever season he's been here we've scored more in the first halves then second halves. It seems as though as soon as we get off script he was lost.

That's an excellent point. Adjustment issues is a definite concern and it's well documented how the Jets were outscored in the second half of games throughout Mangini's tenure.

BUT, what was the 3 things that ruined Mangini? (1) lack of adjustments, (2) passivity, (3) stubborness to acknowledge a need to change the first 2. I don't see the last 2 being a problem for Mini-Schott with Rex being there.

The thing is, I believe continuity, with its faults, is more valuable to the 2009 team than installing a new offense with a new philosophy. Let the change be on defense with Rex and Pettine calling the shots.

Think about the 5 game swoon. Remember the punts in the opposing territories, the FGs at the goaline, etc. That was Mangini, not Mini-Schott. If Mangini had been aggressive there, we would be having a whole different converstation now.

[SMC]

Agreed with Dominator about Callahan, way too much credit here. Our Oline has 4 first rounders on it for cripes sakes

btw, where did that post go?

I copied it from another thread as it was most relevant here.

[madmike1]

Schottenheimer served as Eric Mangini's offensive coordinator and was never a fan favorite. The Jets finished 25th, 26th and 16th in total offense under him. This season, the offense vanished during the team's late-season collapse, struggling on third down and a failing to get the ball to playmaker Leon Washington. He sucks.

[CTM]

That's an excellent point. Adjustment issues is a definite concern and it's well documented how the Jets were outscored in the second half of games throughout Mangini's tenure.

BUT, what was the 3 things that ruined Mangini? (1) lack of adjustments, (2) passivity, (3) stubborness to acknowledge a need to change the first 2. I don't see the last 2 being a problem for Mini-Schott with Rex being there.

The thing is, I believe continuity, with its faults, is more valuable to the 2009 team than installing a new offense with a new philosophy. Let the change be on defense with Rex and Pettine calling the shots.

Think about the 5 game swoon. Remember the punts in the opposing territories, the FGs at the goaline, etc. That was Mangini, not Mini-Schott. If Mangini had been aggressive there, we would be having a whole different converstation now.

Meh, I don't know. I think some guys are good during the week and bad on Sunday. I think being good on game day is more important. How many times have we watched the offense disappear after the first fe series?

I also have problem with the flow of his offense, he gets away from the run too quickly, refuses to use play action even though Favre and the noodle arm were adept at it, doesn't seem to do things early in the game to set up plays later, in fact , the one time I remember it happening was against Miami and it was actually Coles that pointed it out. I just don't think there's a scheme as much as just a bunch of players running independent plays..

[slats]

I just want the next HC of the NYJ to pick his own staff. I'd be fine with Schottie and Callahan staying if that's his choice. If it is Ryan, it's not like he has a pipeline to hot offensive talent coming from Baltimore.

There's an argument to be made for continuity. Of course, there's also another one to be made for something completely different that suits the talent on this team better.

I just don't want Jets' management forcing it's OC down the throat of the new HC either because they're in love with him, or they're too cheap to fire him and pay the remainder of his contract. The first priority has to be for the head man to have his own people in place.

[madmike1]

All you have to know about the moron accountant is that he would be hiring this dope for HC if he didn't know it would cause a fan riot...

[Borgoguy]

Schottenheimer served as Eric Mangini's offensive coordinator and was never a fan favorite. The Jets finished 25th, 26th and 16th in total offense under him. This season, the offense vanished during the team's late-season collapse, struggling on third down and a failing to get the ball to playmaker Leon Washington. He sucks.

Thank you. I have been questioning all this praise and support of Marty Ball Failure 2 for days now. Why are we even considering Schotty, Jr.? He's done nothing special to indicate that he could develop into one of the top offensive minds in the NFL, let alone an HC. Now there are some that want to give him control of the team? No way. Show this guy the door. He shares in the failure of the Mangini-driven collapse.

[Maxman]

I hope either Spags or Ryan keeps Schott. All this change is not a good thing. Change for the sake of change is not a good thing. How about building something? At least on one side of the ball.

[CTM]

I hope either Spags or Ryan keeps Schott. All this change is not a good thing. Change for the sake of change is not a good thing. How about building something? At least on one side of the ball.

Why continue to build a poop castle though?

[SMC]

Why continue to build a poop castle though?

Because all you have beside poop is vomit?

[Maxman]

Why continue to build a poop castle though?

Schott isn't terrible. He is a bright young mind. The first year here he was really good. Last year they had no line and this year was insane all around but he was looking good at 8 and 3. The finish was terrible, no doubt.

I say let the young coach come back and work on making things better. Sometimes patience is the right thing.

[Borgoguy]

I hope either Spags or Ryan keeps Schott. All this change is not a good thing. Change for the sake of change is not a good thing. How about building something? At least on one side of the ball.

It's not change for change sake. Scotty, Jr. has run this offense for three years now. What has he shown you that warrants his continuing? What will change between now and next season?

[CTM]

Schott isn't terrible. He is a bright young mind. The first year here he was really good. Last year they had no line and this year was insane all around but he was looking good at 8 and 3. The finish was terrible, no doubt.

I say let the young coach come back and work on making things better. Sometimes patience is the right thing.

Imo can't be too bright when the guy who is by far our best playmaker doesn't get enough touches..

[CTM]

Because all you have beside poop is vomit?

Not true. it's poop versus an unknown. The unknown could turn into poop as well, but maybe it's gold?

[madmike1]

I hope either Spags or Ryan keeps Schott. All this change is not a good thing. Change for the sake of change is not a good thing. How about building something? At least on one side of the ball.

Change from 2008 is a good thing. Stability for the sake of stability makes you the lions.

[Jetscode1]

Because I want the extra vCash, I'm starting this thread. As you guys may know, I've been the lone voice, or perhaps only 1 of a handful, who wanted (past tense important) Brain Schottenheimer to be HC.

The reasons was: (1) continuity for the offense and the young QBs (Clemens, Ratliff & Ainge) and (2) I believe he is a good offensive mind. He showed great creativity in 2006. He did a pretty good job of changing the offense on the fly to suit Favre until everything fell apart. And the offense scored 405 pts, 3rd most in franchise history.

Yes, there were detractors, many of you in fact, but I believe the Jets were a playoff team in 2008 undermined by an abysmal coaching job by Eric Mangini. As such, what we need to to is upgrade the 2 areas Mangini was involved in: (HC & DC because Sutton was merely a puppet).

NOW, with Rex Ryan emerging as the lead candidate (according to reports there is mutual love going on), I'm 100% behind the hiring of Rex. The reasons below:

(1) Resume; (2) aggressiveness; (3) 3-4 defense, and (4) Mike Pettine comes with him as DC.

Thus, where the Jets were hurt by Mangini, there will be an immediate upgrade in Rex and Pettine. Now the Jets would be in a better coaching situation for 2009 than 2008 with the team retaining Mini-Schott and Westhoff.

Let the offense and Special Teams be what they are under Rex's overall stewardship and let Rex & Pettine install a rabid, attacking 3-4 defense rather than the read-and-react passive 3-4 defense letting the opposing offense have 18 play drives that tire us out.

With Mini-Schott as OC, you have the young QB tri-fecta not having to learn a new playbook. The Oline continues the comraderie from last year knowing the playbook. I also want to retain Bill Callahan because of what he did with the OLine and running game. Plus, I know this is unpopular, but if Favre comes back he will be coming back to a system he knows. ALSO, I think Rex, by his natural demeanor, will be able to handle Favre better than Mangini.

Mangini is a short, fat, bubblegum chewing school principal that people like but no one respects or fears. Rex is a big, fat, foul mouthed mountain man whom people would not be surprised to see on America's most wanted. Essentially, Rex looks like someone Favre knows back home.

And, remember, Rex has experience in having a coordinator retained by a new HC and it not being a problem. It happened with him with Harbaugh's signing by the Ravens.

So, for what's best for the 2009 Jets to compete for the division and deep playoff drive, this is the coaching staff we need:

HC - Rex Ryan

OC - Brian Schottenheimer & Bill Callahan

DC - Mike Pettine

ST - Mike Westhoff

Everyone's thoughts are greatly appreciated (including personal attacks ). Thanks!

I agree with all the reasons you list for hiring Rex Ryan as our next coach but I'm not sold as mini-schott as the answer as the OC. As bad as the defense was down the stretch so was this offense...in fact the whole year the offense never impressed as consistent. Were we a running team or a passing team? The Favre addition explains some of the inconsistencies especially after his injuries but I just disliked how he managed the rythym and flow of each game. Plus add in the fact he completely under-utilized Leon just makes me pause. Was all this Mangini? The better bet is a unified decision that is now spun differently (Mangini micro-managed the game plans) to justify keeping/promoting mini-schott.

I have been intrigued with Callahan. Still not sure whether we improved more because of his coaching or because we removed two turnstiles from our offensive line. He produced a quality offense in Oakland but the team regressed further (I know Al Davis) after Gruden left and he totally bombed at Nebraska.

I propose we let Ryan (if he is hired) pick his own staff. If he likes mini-schott or Callahan as OC fine but if he wants to go in another direction (Hue Jackson maybe) let him. I see nothing in Ryan history or coaching tree that suggests a relationship between the Ryan clan and the Schottenheimer family. I don't mind if the FO suggests we keep him but if Ryan wants to go in another direction he should encouraged to fill out his staff as he best sees fit. My take on him is he is a strong personality guy...like his father and maybe a little like the Tuna...he may not appreciate, nor take the job if a leftover OC is forced on his staff without his full endorsement.

[#27TheDominator]

I agree with all the reasons you list for hiring Rex Ryan as our next coach but I'm not sold as mini-schott as the answer as the OC. As bad as the defense was down the stretch so was this offense...in fact the whole year the offense never impressed as consistent. Were we a running team or a passing team? The Favre addition explains some of the inconsistencies especially after his injuries but I just disliked how he managed the rythym and flow of each game. Plus add in the fact he completely under-utilized Leon just makes me pause. Was all this Mangini? The better bet is a unified decision that is now spun differently (Mangini micro-managed the game plans) to justify keeping/promoting mini-schott.

I have been intrigued with Callahan. Still not sure whether we improved more because of his coaching or because we removed two turnstiles from our offensive line. He produced a quality offense in Oakland but the team regressed further (I know Al Davis) after Gruden left and he totally bombed at Nebraska.

I propose we let Ryan (if he is hired) pick his own staff. If he likes mini-schott or Callahan as OC fine but if he wants to go in another direction (Hue Jackson maybe) let him. I see nothing in Ryan history or coaching tree that suggests a relationship between the Ryan clan and the Schottenheimer family. I don't mind if the FO suggests we keep him but if Ryan wants to go in another direction he should encouraged to fill out his staff as he best sees fit. My take on him is he is a strong personality guy...like his father and maybe a little like the Tuna...he may not appreciate, nor take the job if a leftover OC is forced on his staff without his full endorsement.

I would add that I hope that a huge portion of the interview process includes Ryan's ideas on who and how the offense should be run. If he doesn't have an definite ideas about the who, what, why and how of the offense I'd look elsewhere.

[Maxman]

Change from 2008 is a good thing. Stability for the sake of stability makes you the lions.

Stability when you are losing every year would not be a good thing. Schott was the O\C on a team that won 10 games in his first year. 9 games this year. Was the offense perfect? No.

Is Schott a bright young mind? Yes. Bring him back with a new defensive minded coach and let's see what they can do.

Sounds like he is coming back either way.

[jetsman]

All i want is Bob Sutton on the next bus out of town, bring in REX!!!

[#27TheDominator]

Schottenheimer served as Eric Mangini's offensive coordinator and was never a fan favorite. The Jets finished 25th, 26th and 16th in total offense under him. This season, the offense vanished during the team's late-season collapse, struggling on third down and a failing to get the ball to playmaker Leon Washington. He sucks.

That's offensive yardage. Not points. Even with Favre's implosion down the stretch, they were 9th in points scored. In fact, they were better in points scored than yards gained each year. Remember, they had no RB in '06 and no Oline and injured/1st time starter at QB in '07. I don't really like Little Schotty, but there is a case to say he's not that bad.

[Irish Jet]

Seriously.

A guy who gives a RB one carry, that turns out to be 63 yard TD run and then ignores said RB for the rest of the game cannot be considered IMO. He was a complete failure this season.

Our offense never establishes an idendity despite the fact that we SHOULD have been a run first offense. Far too much crap like going 5 WR's at random times in a series depite the fact that we'd be running all over a team, not to mention a complete inability to utilize play action. Then we'd get in 3rd and Inches and go 5 WR's again not even showing a ****ing run! That IMO is completely disgraceful and is a large part of this teams failure this season.

The guy is a clown.

[jack48]

Because I want the extra vCash, I'm starting this thread. As you guys may know, I've been the lone voice, or perhaps only 1 of a handful, who wanted (past tense important) Brain Schottenheimer to be HC.

The reasons was: (1) continuity for the offense and the young QBs (Clemens, Ratliff & Ainge) and (2) I believe he is a good offensive mind. He showed great creativity in 2006. He did a pretty good job of changing the offense on the fly to suit Favre until everything fell apart. And the offense scored 405 pts, 3rd most in franchise history.

Yes, there were detractors, many of you in fact, but I believe the Jets were a playoff team in 2008 undermined by an abysmal coaching job by Eric Mangini. As such, what we need to to is upgrade the 2 areas Mangini was involved in: (HC & DC because Sutton was merely a puppet).

NOW, with Rex Ryan emerging as the lead candidate (according to reports there is mutual love going on), I'm 100% behind the hiring of Rex. The reasons below:

(1) Resume; (2) aggressiveness; (3) 3-4 defense, and (4) Mike Pettine comes with him as DC.

Thus, where the Jets were hurt by Mangini, there will be an immediate upgrade in Rex and Pettine. Now the Jets would be in a better coaching situation for 2009 than 2008 with the team retaining Mini-Schott and Westhoff.

Let the offense and Special Teams be what they are under Rex's overall stewardship and let Rex & Pettine install a rabid, attacking 3-4 defense rather than the read-and-react passive 3-4 defense letting the opposing offense have 18 play drives that tire us out.

With Mini-Schott as OC, you have the young QB tri-fecta not having to learn a new playbook. The Oline continues the comraderie from last year knowing the playbook. I also want to retain Bill Callahan because of what he did with the OLine and running game. Plus, I know this is unpopular, but if Favre comes back he will be coming back to a system he knows. ALSO, I think Rex, by his natural demeanor, will be able to handle Favre better than Mangini.

Mangini is a short, fat, bubblegum chewing school principal that people like but no one respects or fears. Rex is a big, fat, foul mouthed mountain man whom people would not be surprised to see on America's most wanted. Essentially, Rex looks like someone Favre knows back home.

And, remember, Rex has experience in having a coordinator retained by a new HC and it not being a problem. It happened with him with Harbaugh's signing by the Ravens.

So, for what's best for the 2009 Jets to compete for the division and deep playoff drive, this is the coaching staff we need:

HC - Rex Ryan

OC - Brian Schottenheimer & Bill Callahan

DC - Mike Pettine

ST - Mike Westhoff

Everyone's thoughts are greatly appreciated (including personal attacks ). Thanks!

Supposedly the Jets say BS is staying as OC no matter what. Brilliant. If I was Ryan I would tell them to go take a flying you know what. Coaches all get fired some day. I'll be damned if I want to coach with someone else's albatross around my neck. I"ll get fired on my own merits. Continuity of failure is not really continuity.

[madmike1]

Stability when you are losing every year would not be a good thing. Schott was the O\C on a team that won 10 games in his first year. 9 games this year. Was the offense perfect? No.

Is Schott a bright young mind? Yes. Bring him back with a new defensive minded coach and let's see what they can do.

Sounds like he is coming back either way.

What could that be possibly based on?

[#27TheDominator]

Supposedly the Jets say BS is staying as OC no matter what. Brilliant. If I was Ryan I would tell them to go take a flying you know what. Coaches all get fired some day. I'll be damned if I want to coach with someone else's albatross around my neck. I"ll get fired on my own merits. Continuity of failure is not really continuity.

I've been hearing all kinds of gloom and doom regarding the Jets situation and the way they have gone about the search, but this is the first thing I have heard which I think is stupid and poorly done. Hopefully, it's also not true. I don't mind keeping Schotty around, but forcing him down the new coach's throat is a very bad idea.

[Vicious89x]

Supposedly the Jets say BS is staying as OC no matter what. Brilliant. If I was Ryan I would tell them to go take a flying you know what. Coaches all get fired some day. I'll be damned if I want to coach with someone else's albatross around my neck. I"ll get fired on my own merits. Continuity of failure is not really continuity.

If that's true that's really a stupid way to run your franchise. If you're so high on him, make him a HC. You have to let the new HC bring in his own people, let him make it HIS team.

[madmike1]

Seriously.

A guy who gives a RB one carry, that turns out to be 63 yard TD run and then ignores said RB for the rest of the game cannot be considered IMO. He was a complete failure this season.

Our offense never establishes an idendity despite the fact that we SHOULD have been a run first offense. Far too much crap like going 5 WR's at random times in a series depite the fact that we'd be running all over a team, not to mention a complete inability to utilize play action. Then we'd get in 3rd and Inches and go 5 WR's again not even showing a ****ing run! That IMO is completely disgraceful and is a large part of this teams failure this season.

The guy is a clown.

Didn't you hear? Leon sucks when he gets more than 4 carries a game.

[CTM]

I've been hearing all kinds of gloom and doom regarding the Jets situation and the way they have gone about the search, but this is the first thing I have heard which I think is stupid and poorly done. Hopefully, it's also not true. I don't mind keeping Schotty around, but forcing him down the new coach's throat is a very bad idea.

Keep reading the same and if true I think in retrospect Tanny should've been fired as well.

The only good thing is that Ryan may have an affinity for Mini Schott anyway since they are both sons of legendary coaches. That was one of the reasons he listed for liking Pettine

[SMC]

Supposedly the Jets say BS is staying as OC no matter what. Brilliant. If I was Ryan I would tell them to go take a flying you know what. Coaches all get fired some day. I'll be damned if I want to coach with someone else's albatross around my neck. I"ll get fired on my own merits. Continuity of failure is not really continuity.

Where did you learn this from?

By the way, my thread was to present an argument in favor of retaining Mini-Schott.

It WAS NOT in support of an argument that Mini-Schott should be forced on Rex.

In other words, if Rex doesn't want Mini-Schott or keeping him is a prerequisite of getting the top job I am STRONGLY AGAINST IT.

[slats]

Our offense never establishes an idendity despite the fact that we SHOULD have been a run first offense. Far too much crap like going 5 WR's at random times in a series depite the fact that we'd be running all over a team, not to mention a complete inability to utilize play action. Then we'd get in 3rd and Inches and go 5 WR's again not even showing a ****ing run! That IMO is completely disgraceful and is a large part of this teams failure this season.

I think a lot of that was adjusting to Favre, especially the 5 WR stuff. The Jet offense went from a lot of pre snap motion to a lot of standing still with Brett, because that's what he liked. They tried to employ the slants he used at GB. They leaned on him way too much, and then when they needed a push from the running game - they were afraid it wouldn't be there.

In reality, Schott had to completely revamp the offense on the fly and in so doing still managed to score over 400 points this year. I think he did a pretty good job considering the circumstances.

While I certainly don't need to keep him around, it wouldn't kill me if Ryan (or whoever the next coach is) wanted to.

[#27TheDominator]

I think a lot of that was adjusting to Favre, especially the 5 WR stuff. The Jet offense went from a lot of pre snap motion to a lot of standing still with Brett, because that's what he liked. They tried to employ the slants he used at GB. They leaned on him way too much, and then when they needed a push from the running game - they were afraid it wouldn't be there.

In reality, Schott had to completely revamp the offense on the fly and in so doing still managed to score over 400 points this year. I think he did a pretty good job considering the circumstances.

While I certainly don't need to keep him around, it wouldn't kill me if Ryan (or whoever the next coach is) wanted to.

+1

You can make a case that BSchott and his complex O was hamstrung the last two years by young/inexperienced Clemens and dumb/lazy Favre.

I agree with everyone that Leon should have gotten more touches. The only explanation I can think of is that they treated him like a blitz. The other team needs to be surprised and not expect it. Doesn't make much sense, but it's the only rational thing I can think of. Leon does have a ton of trouble with blitz pickups and has a Barry Sanders like ability to lose yards on any given play.