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Marty Schottenheimer says that Schotty Jr


Boynton Beach Jets

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I hope Marty is wrong, as is his usual in most matters, especially football related ones. I will go on record as saying that, though convenient for the Jets and Rex Ryan because he's here and under contract, I think we should have looked elsewhere for our OC. What everyone wants to believe is that all those second and twos and third and ones when we went out with a five wide--or empty backfield--package was Mangini's and Favre's doing. All those boneheaded calls were audibles by Favre or changed by Mangini. Right. I don't buy it at all. Pray I'm wrong.

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I hope Marty is wrong, as is his usual in most matters, especially football related ones. I will go on record as saying that, though convenient for the Jets and Rex Ryan because he's here and under contract, I think we should have looked elsewhere for our OC. What everyone wants to believe is that all those second and twos and third and ones when we went out with a five wide--or empty backfield--package was Mangini's and Favre's doing. All those boneheaded calls were audibles by Favre or changed by Mangini. Right. I don't buy it at all. Pray I'm wrong.

i am ok with it..we wil lsee,,maybe rex will turn out to be a great role model and bring the best out in schott

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Marty Schottenheimer says that Schotty Jr will be back with the New York Jets, heard this on Sirius NFL radio...good news for the green and white!!!:cheers:

I think it's good news, too... If true! :crossfingers:

Best case scenario, Schottie's a lot better at his job when Mangini is't looking over his shoulder.

Worst case scenario, it allows Ryan with Pettine to really focus on the defense for a year (where a lack of coaching was far more obvious). Then next year, he'll be a position to hand more responsibilities to his second year DC, hire a new OC, and get more involved on that side of the ball.

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I am glad Schotty is returning. I believe he gets too much criticism in comparison to Mangini. I don't believe he's a a great OC, but he's not a bad one. He knows the players and the players know his system.

This is from Boland's chat:

from everything i understand he never had autonomy over the play calling under mangini which isn't his fault. and that caused some friction on the coaching staff last season, especially at the end.

http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/football/jets/blog/

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I hope Marty is wrong, as is his usual in most matters, especially football related ones. I will go on record as saying that, though convenient for the Jets and Rex Ryan because he's here and under contract, I think we should have looked elsewhere for our OC. What everyone wants to believe is that all those second and twos and third and ones when we went out with a five wide--or empty backfield--package was Mangini's and Favre's doing. All those boneheaded calls were audibles by Favre or changed by Mangini. Right. I don't buy it at all. Pray I'm wrong.

You're not wrong. I posted this in a different Schottenheimer thread a few weeks back:

To elaborate on Schott calling passing plays on 3rd and short:

In 2006 (his only full season under Schott), Chad threw 22 passes on 3rd and 2 yards or less to go.

This year, Brett Favre (in his only full season under Schott) threw 29 passes on 3rd and 2 yards or less.

In comparison, the two best QBs in football this season (Peyton Manning and Drew Brees) only threw 20 and 18 passes in the same situations. And neither of these teams have as good of a running game as we do so that means even though we have a better running game, Schott was putting the ball in Chad and Brett's hands on 3rd and short more often then Indy and New Orleans were putting the ball in the hands of Peyton Manning and Drew Brees.

That doesn't make any sense.

Now, when you look at teams who have comparable running games to ours, and don't have the 2 best QBs in the NFL in Peyton and Brees, look what happens to the numbers then:

  • ATL - 8 passing attempts on 3rd and 2 yards or less
  • CAR - 9 passing attempts on 3rd and 2 yards or less
  • NYG - 11 passing attempts on 3rd and 2 yards or less
  • DAL - 12 passing attempts on 3rd and 2 yards or less
  • MIN - 8 passing attempts on 3rd and 2 yards or less
  • TEN - 13 passing attempts on 3rd and 2 yards or less

The only run-first team comparable to us was Pittsburgh but that is probably largely due in part to Willie Parker missing 6 games and small Mewelde Moore being his backup and their main RB in those games. You aren't exactly going to pound Mewelde Moore on 3rd and 2.

So in summary:

People saying Schott throws on 3rd and short considerably more than he should and that he does so more often then other offensive coordinators with significantly better QBs are correct.

And those who said he did it more this year than in years past are also correct.

The only incorrect people are the people who acted like or thought it was brand new to our offense because of Favre. It is not Favre ... it is Schott.

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You're not wrong. I posted this in a different Schottenheimer thread a few weeks back:

To elaborate on Schott calling passing plays on 3rd and short:

In 2006 (his only full season under Schott), Chad threw 22 passes on 3rd and 2 yards or less to go.

This year, Brett Favre (in his only full season under Schott) threw 29 passes on 3rd and 2 yards or less.

In comparison, the two best QBs in football this season (Peyton Manning and Drew Brees) only threw 20 and 18 passes in the same situations. And neither of these teams have as good of a running game as we do so that means even though we have a better running game, Schott was putting the ball in Chad and Brett's hands on 3rd and short more often then Indy and New Orleans were putting the ball in the hands of Peyton Manning and Drew Brees.

That doesn't make any sense.

Now, when you look at teams who have comparable running games to ours, and don't have the 2 best QBs in the NFL in Peyton and Brees, look what happens to the numbers then:

  • ATL - 8 passing attempts on 3rd and 2 yards or less
  • CAR - 9 passing attempts on 3rd and 2 yards or less
  • NYG - 11 passing attempts on 3rd and 2 yards or less
  • DAL - 12 passing attempts on 3rd and 2 yards or less
  • MIN - 8 passing attempts on 3rd and 2 yards or less
  • TEN - 13 passing attempts on 3rd and 2 yards or less

The only run-first team comparable to us was Pittsburgh but that is probably largely due in part to Willie Parker missing 6 games and small Mewelde Moore being his backup and their main RB in those games. You aren't exactly going to pound Mewelde Moore on 3rd and 2.

So in summary:

People saying Schott throws on 3rd and short considerably more than he should and that he does so more often then other offensive coordinators with significantly better QBs are correct.

And those who said he did it more this year than in years past are also correct.

The only incorrect people are the people who acted like or thought it was brand new to our offense because of Favre. It is not Favre ... it is Schott.

POTW from me. Beautiful job in breaking down the numbers. After looking at the numbers you presented, how are people still lauding this guy?

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i just want to see him for ayear without assgrease eric and without favre

We may not have a choice anyway, SJ. I just wanted to go on record with my opinion, that's all. If he is retained, I hope I eat crow next year because our offense is on fire. Believe me, I want to be wrong about Schotty, but don't think I am.

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I think it's good news, too... If true! :crossfingers:

Best case scenario, Schottie's a lot better at his job when Mangini is't looking over his shoulder.

Worst case scenario, it allows Ryan with Pettine to really focus on the defense for a year (where a lack of coaching was far more obvious). Then next year, he'll be a position to hand more responsibilities to his second year DC, hire a new OC, and get more involved on that side of the ball.

I am glad Schotty is returning. I believe he gets too much criticism in comparison to Mangini. I don't believe he's a a great OC, but he's not a bad one. He knows the players and the players know his system.

This is from Boland's chat:

It is good Schotty and Callhan are back because there will be less transformation that usually happens when you have a coaching change. The offense and special teams will be able to be build on the previous year and so will the o-line will continue to build upon the previous year. The defense is going to have enough changes in style (going to the 1 gap) and terminology changes. If the offense does not improve in 2009 then we can make changes in 2010. This team won 9 games in 2008 with Rex taking over the reigns and bringing in some of his people I look for improvement in 2009. Improvement on 9 win teams generally means playoffs and there is a lot to look forward to in 2009.

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We may not have a choice anyway, SJ. I just wanted to go on record with my opinion, that's all. If he is retained, I hope I eat crow next year because our offense is on fire. Believe me, I want to be wrong about Schotty, but don't think I am.

in your case it would be Peking Duck , not crow ;)

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Great job, JMJ. It is more Schotty than Favre. The question is, though, was it more Mangini than Schotty?

I doubt it. Mangini is more conservative than mormon teenagers. I doubt he was the one forcing Schottenheimer to THROW and not RUN on 3rd and short.

I just think Schott is plain terrible. I hope I eat crow for this next year but I highly doubt I do. He has proven absolutely nothing as an OC over the past 3 years. Well, that is if you don't include incompetence.

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Baffles me also. I think he is TERRIBLE!

Laude? I'm not. But I don't think he's terrible either.

Schotty has his issues, but his major issue is now in Cleveland having murals of Browns HOFers painted over in the team's facilities.

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he will trust me..

U know westhoff, schott and callahan have all thrown assgrease eric under the bus already

I don't think not quitting your job counts as throwing somebody under the bus. If I was in Schotty's position, as long as they had a paycheck for me at the end of the week, I'm going to keep coming to work.

Kind of unusual, though. Usually it's understood the assistant coaches go when the head coach goes. Not sure I have ever seen anything like this before, where all these assistants stay in place and a new guy comes in, especially a new guy who never worked with them before. Strange.

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Laude? I'm not. But I don't think he's terrible either.

Schotty has his issues, but his major issue is now in Cleveland having murals of Browns HOFers painted over in the team's facilities.

1laud

Pronunciation:

\ˈlȯd\

Function:

noun

Etymology:

Middle English laudes (plural), from Medieval Latin, from Latin, plural of laud-, laus praise

Date:

14th century

1plural but sing or plural in constr often capitalized : an office of solemn praise to God forming with matins the first of the canonical hours

2: praise , acclaim

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I am glad Schotty is returning. I believe he gets too much criticism in comparison to Mangini. I don't believe he's a a great OC, but he's not a bad one. He knows the players and the players know his system.

This is from Boland's chat:

Can Mangini jump in and change a play with 30 seconds on the clock and

schott using 15 of it to call protections, formations, etc? I can see in certain key spots, or after timeouts, but Schott has to have the majority of the responsibility. No? I have never been a Schott fan, father or son. I realize we have had to have primarily a Chad offense over the last three years. I did not like Favre and his no backfield shotgun. The guy cannot move and he has no backfield. Does a defense have to do heavy thinking when they see that? I also hated the No Leon Offense. I also hate the idea that this guy might bring Favre back. Or that he might get some nibbles next year and leave us starting all over again on offense.

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I don't think not quitting your job counts as throwing somebody under the bus. If I was in Schotty's position, as long as they had a paycheck for me at the end of the week, I'm going to keep coming to work.

Kind of unusual, though. Usually it's understood the assistant coaches go when the head coach goes. Not sure I have ever seen anything like this before, where all these assistants stay in place and a new guy comes in, especially a new guy who never worked with them before. Strange.

not what i meant,,i bet these 2 pro's callahan and westhoff confidide in rex that assgrease was a assgrease

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Laude? I'm not. But I don't think he's terrible either.

Schotty has his issues, but his major issue is now in Cleveland having murals of Browns HOFers painted over in the team's facilities.

Yeah, me neither. I'm not praising or acclaiming him, I just think it's possible that he doesn't completely suck. Hackett sucked. Heimerdinger sucked. I think he's had some serious personnel deficiencies since he got here, and things really started looking a lot better last year with the improved line.

Last year was the first year he had a decent running game since he got here. With Callahan still on board, and a HC who wants to rush the football, I'm willing to see what he can do.

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Can Mangini jump in and change a play with 30 seconds on the clock and

schott using 15 of it to call protections, formations, etc? I can see in certain key spots, or after timeouts, but Schott has to have the majority of the responsibility. No? I have never been a Schott fan, father or son. I realize we have had to have primarily a Chad offense over the last three years. I did not like Favre and his no backfield shotgun. The guy cannot move and he has no backfield. Does a defense have to do heavy thinking when they see that? I also hated the No Leon Offense. I also hate the idea that this guy might bring Favre back. Or that he might get some nibbles next year and leave us starting all over again on offense.

I completely understand that and yours and everyone else's argument against Schotty makes sense.

It's the lesser of 2 evils for me. I don't care so much about Favre as I do about Clemens/Ratliff/Ainge. For their development, the best thing is for Schotty to remain OC. It's another year for them in the system and knowing the playbook.

I don't think there's a viable option out there for QB in the FA market for 2009. I want a vet brought in to compete against Clemens/Ratliff/Ainge, but I want one of the youngins to win the job. The best chance for that to happen is with Schotty there.

Also, with Callahan there, the blocking schemes stay the same and the running game is not affected.

I'm in the minority here, but I still believe that the Jets were a SB contender sabotaged by a whussy HC in Mangini. That team could be a SB contender in 2009 with the same offense and a better defense. Changing the offense in 2009 is a step back IMO, and undermines the chances for a playoff run.

Look at it this way, with all the problems you and others say about Schotty, if Mangini goes for the 1st downs against the Niners and Seahawks, or decides to blitz a backup Oline in Seattle, then the Jets are 11-5 and win the division.

This team is close. Fix the defense and stand pat on offense is the best chance for 2009. The Jets most important players are either nearing or over 30, or near the end of their 1st contracts. The window closes after 2010 on these group of players. They can't afford offensive upheaval in 2009.

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I completely understand that and yours and everyone else's argument against Schotty makes sense.

It's the lesser of 2 evils for me. I don't care so much about Favre as I do about Clemens/Ratliff/Ainge. For their development, the best thing is for Schotty to remain OC. It's another year for them in the system and knowing the playbook.

I don't think there's a viable option out there for QB in the FA market for 2009. I want a vet brought in to compete against Clemens/Ratliff/Ainge, but I want one of the youngins to win the job. The best chance for that to happen is with Schotty there.

Also, with Callahan there, the blocking schemes stay the same and the running game is not affected.

I'm in the minority here, but I still believe that the Jets were a SB contender sabotaged by a whussy HC in Mangini. That team could be a SB contender in 2009 with the same offense and a better defense. Changing the offense in 2009 is a step back IMO, and undermines the chances for a playoff run.

Look at it this way, with all the problems you and others say about Schotty, if Mangini goes for the 1st downs against the Niners and Seahawks, or decides to blitz a backup Oline in Seattle, then the Jets are 11-5 and win the division.

This team is close. Fix the defense and stand pat on offense is the best chance for 2009. The Jets most important players are either nearing or over 30, or near the end of their 1st contracts. The window closes after 2010 on these group of players. They can't afford offensive upheaval in 2009.

I agree with both of these, but I will go a step further and say ***** 11-5. With solid, competent coaching we should have been 13-3 at a minimum this season, 14-2 if you want to say we should have beat SD in week 3 when they were in disarray, but 13-3 at a minimum.

However, we don't have our same cupcake schedule next year. We could easily be a better team next season and it doesn't guarantee it will show that in our W-L record.

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I agree with both of these, but I will go a step further and say ***** 11-5. With solid, competent coaching we should have been 13-3 at a minimum this season, 14-2 if you want to say we should have beat SD in week 3 when they were in disarray, but 13-3 at a minimum.

However, we don't have our same cupcake schedule next year. We could easily be a better team next season and it doesn't guarantee it will show that in our W-L record.

Yes, I agree, that with better coaching the Jets should have been 13-3 (I'd substitute the 1st Pats game for the Chargers game because I think the road game in SD is much harder to win than Cassel's first game as a starter since HS).

But I disagree on the schedule. Yes, the Jets will play a tougher division than the AFC west, but the Jets still have a 3rd place schedule. Because of that, I don't think the schedule will be that much of an issue.

I remember the predictions in 2007 that the Jets would be a better team, but with a tougher schedule they'd have a worse record than 2006. That was not the case because the schedule was not a factor. The Jets simply blew a bunch of winnable games early which ruined their season.

The bottom line is that good teams transcend schedules and I believe the Jets are a good team and in 2008 they were a good team that was horribly coached. Because of that they lost to 3 losing teams. In fact, 4 of their 7 losses came against losing teams.

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