Jet Moses Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 This is sickening: Remember the latest Bank of America (BAC) bailout, the one we were all so steamed about last week? (The $20 billion of cash and $100+ billion of trash-asset guarantees that absolutely had to be given or else Bank of America shareholders might have lost everything?) Yes, well, you probably thought that that cash would be used to bolster the bank's capital or something. (We know you weren't dumb enough to think it might have been used to make loans). Alas, it wasn't used for that. It was used to pay Merrill Lynch executives the huge bonuses they deserved for unloading their balance sheet on for-some-reason-not-yet-fired Bank of America CEO Ken Lewis.* http://clusterstock.alleyinsider.com/2009/1/75-of-latest-bank-of-america-bailout-paid-merrill-lynch-bonuses-bac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 feel good story of the week!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlag Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 This is sickening: Remember the latest Bank of America (BAC) bailout, the one we were all so steamed about last week? (The $20 billion of cash and $100+ billion of trash-asset guarantees that absolutely had to be given or else Bank of America shareholders might have lost everything?) Yes, well, you probably thought that that cash would be used to bolster the bank's capital or something. (We know you weren't dumb enough to think it might have been used to make loans). Alas, it wasn't used for that. It was used to pay Merrill Lynch executives the huge bonuses they deserved for unloading their balance sheet on for-some-reason-not-yet-fired Bank of America CEO Ken Lewis.* http://clusterstock.alleyinsider.com/2009/1/75-of-latest-bank-of-america-bailout-paid-merrill-lynch-bonuses-bac But I thought the bailout was essential to America or else there would be rioting in the street and complete chaos??? I blame this SOLELY on the Politicians/Bernanke/Paulson it's a disgrace these ****ing clowns are allowed to make decisions about this countries money or debt. **** Keynesian economics!!! It's only a matter of time before the dollar isn't worth the paper it's written on. That's gonna be a fun time. There's only one guy in Washington right now who's on point about what we should be doing and he's being drowned out by pigs trying to save their own ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green DNA Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 It turns out that the Merrill CEO also spent $1 million to redecorate his office. WTF, these people are either stupid or just don't give a fock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 It turns out that the Merrill CEO also spent $1 million to redecorate his office. WTF, these people are either stupid or just don't give a fock. Why should they care? No matter how badly they do, they will just be given taxpayer money. If you're rich, you can lie about your taxes and not pay them, and then you'll get put in charge of the Treasury. It's only if you're not rich or a major corporation that you are subject to this country's laws and taxes, and can be arrested or bullied and are expected to fend for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 it's a ****ing joke...meanwhile people are losing their jobs and their homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indygirl4jets Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Unbelieveable! And, how many people are out of work right now?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Moses Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 We will hit critical mass soon. There will be a bloodletting in the USA. You gotta be crazy, you gotta have a real need You gotta sleep on your toes, and when you're on the street You gotta be able to pick out the easy meat with your eyes closed And then moving in silently, down wind and out of sight You gotta strike when the moment is right without thinking. And after a while, you can work on points for style Like the club tie, and the firm handshake A certain look in the eye, and an easy smile You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to So that when they turn their backs on you You'll get the chance to put the knife in. You gotta keep one eye looking over your shoulder You know it's going to get harder, and harder, and harder as you get older And in the end you'll pack, fly down south Hide your head in the sand Just another sad old man All alone and dying of cancer. And when you lose control, you'll reap the harvest that you've sown And as the fear grows, the bad blood slows and turns to stone And it's too late to loose the weight you used to need to throw around So have a good drown, as you go down alone Dragged down by the stone. I gotta admit that I'm a little bit confused Sometimes it seems to me as if I'm just being used Gotta stay awake, gotta try and shake of this creeping malaise If I don't stand my own ground, how can I find my way out of this maze? Deaf, dumb, and blind, you just keep on pretending That everyone's expendable and no-one had a real friend And it seems to you the thing to do would be to isolate the winner And you believe at heart, everyone's a killer. Who was born in a house full of pain Who was trained not to spit in the fan Who was told what to do by the man Who was broken by trained personnel Who was fitted with collar and chain Who was given a seat in the stand Who was breaking away from the pack Who was only a stranger at home Who was ground down in the end Who was found dead on the phone Who was dragged down by the stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Unbelieveable! And, how many people are out of work right now?? 7 that I know of. could be more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Of Bavaria Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I think this will be my official flag for the 2nd American Revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uart Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 People who complain about this may not fully understand the compensation structure of Wall Street. Bonuses aren't really a "Bonus" on Wall Street. They haven't been that way for a long while. For most Wall Street employees, a bonus is expected every year, and it is usually the LARGEST component of your compensation package for the year. If you work on Wall Street, you live off your bonus, not your salary. These people own houses that are commensurate with their bonus, not their regular salary. If they get $0 as a bonus, they won't be able to pay their mortgages. THAT SAID: I thought the bailouts were a horrible idea and a giant waste of money. However, complaining that these firms are doling out bonuses, is akin to complaining that they're paying any employees anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 People who complain about this may not fully understand the compensation structure of Wall Street. Bonuses aren't really a "Bonus" on Wall Street. They haven't been that way for a long while. For most Wall Street employees, a bonus is expected every year, and it is usually the LARGEST component of your compensation package for the year. If you work on Wall Street, you live off your bonus, not your salary. These people own houses that are commensurate with their bonus, not their regular salary. If they get $0 as a bonus, they won't be able to pay their mortgages. THAT SAID: I thought the bailouts were a horrible idea and a giant waste of money. However, complaining that these firms are doling out bonuses, is akin to complaining that they're paying any employees anything. So? Lawyers at big law firms have bonuses that work the same way. Do you know what happened at law firms this year? The bonuses were cut, because the economy was down. If a lawyer needed that expected bonus to pay for their giant house, too bad, time to move into a smaller one. And that's if you were lucky, a ton just got fired. What would have happened without the bailout? Oh yeah, these guys would be happy that they had jobs in the first place where they can waste people's money and bully them around, because of the whack banking system we have in place that has been killing this country for decades, all the way back to proposed Real Estate legislation out of congress that has been repeatedly killed because banks didn't like it in the 70s. One of the toughest things Obama will have to do is cut through the historically powerful banking lobbyist groups and force us more in line with the banking around the rest of the world. So far, this doesn't exactly look like the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlag Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 END THE FED!! Or at least give us some GOD DAMN TRANSPARENCY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 People who complain about this may not fully understand the compensation structure of Wall Street. Bonuses aren't really a "Bonus" on Wall Street. They haven't been that way for a long while. For most Wall Street employees, a bonus is expected every year, and it is usually the LARGEST component of your compensation package for the year. If you work on Wall Street, you live off your bonus, not your salary. These people own houses that are commensurate with their bonus, not their regular salary. If they get $0 as a bonus, they won't be able to pay their mortgages. THAT SAID: I thought the bailouts were a horrible idea and a giant waste of money. However, complaining that these firms are doling out bonuses, is akin to complaining that they're paying any employees anything. Unless there are contractual obligations to pay an employee "X" amount in bonus money, there is no reason that their compensation in a poor economy should be commensurate with past years. The one downfall is that the state and city of New York have become so accustomed to the tax revenue from Wall Street bonuses that they will be operating in an even bigger deficit with the reduced compensation this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uart Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 So? Lawyers at big law firms have bonuses that work the same way. Patently false. A First year associate at a big law firm has over the "boom years" made somewhere between $140k to $160k, and received a bonus of $15k to $30k. Roughly. For Wall Street, reverse those numbers. The big pay check traditionally came in one lump sum bonus. Do you know what happened at law firms this year? The bonuses were cut, because the economy was down. If a lawyer needed that expected bonus to pay for their giant house, too bad, time to move into a smaller one. And that's if you were lucky, a ton just got fired. Absolutely, the bonuses got cut in half. They still got bonuses though, at most of the firms (the ones that went out of business, well...). That said, they still got their 6 figure base salary, which is the largest component of their annual compensation. Once again, reverse that for Wall Street. A lawyer who was relying on a 30k bonus to make their mortgage obviously wasted their base-salary. A Wall Streeter who was relying on $160k in bonus money to make their mortgage was just assuming that history would continue to repeat itself. What would have happened without the bailout? As I said, I think the bailout was a bad idea. However, if you want to try to save these people's jobs and livelihoods with a bailout, it doesn't make much sense to cut their take-home pay by 3/4ths or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green DNA Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 People who complain about this may not fully understand the compensation structure of Wall Street. Bonuses aren't really a "Bonus" on Wall Street. They haven't been that way for a long while. For most Wall Street employees, a bonus is expected every year, and it is usually the LARGEST component of your compensation package for the year. If you work on Wall Street, you live off your bonus, not your salary. These people own houses that are commensurate with their bonus, not their regular salary. If they get $0 as a bonus, they won't be able to pay their mortgages. THAT SAID: I thought the bailouts were a horrible idea and a giant waste of money. However, complaining that these firms are doling out bonuses, is akin to complaining that they're paying any employees anything. A bonus is incentive compensation and is paid out based on performance of both the corporation and the individual. The base salary being paid to these employees is not paltry and they, like everyone else on the planet should not be rewarded when the business goes down the crapper. I get a bonus every year and look forward to getting it as if it is part of my regular compensation. In reality, I know that it will be about half of last years payout and I would not buy a huge house with the expectation that my bonus is guaranteed. Those that make financial decisions based upon variable compensation are fools and need to learn to live within their means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uart Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 END THE FED!! Or at least give us some GOD DAMN TRANSPARENCY! I'm down with that. How about we try a free market and a stable inflation-free currency. In a free market, Chrysler would've closed shop in the 70s, and Wall Street would've had to sort out its own problems now. The problem with selling the free market to people is that most people associate the term with Corporatism (bailouts and government support for big business), which is far from the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uart Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 A bonus is incentive compensation and is paid out based on performance of both the corporation and the individual. The base salary being paid to these employees is not paltry and they, like everyone else on the planet should not be rewarded when the business goes down the crapper. I get a bonus every year and look forward to getting it as if it is part of my regular compensation. In reality, I know that it will be about half of last years payout and I would not buy a huge house with the expectation that my bonus is guaranteed. Those that make financial decisions based upon variable compensation are fools and need to learn to live within their means. It doesn't seem rational at all, I agree, but its the way it has always been on Wall Street, and Wall Street employees have come to expect that their "real paycheck" comes at the end of the year. Yes, it is incentive compensation, and it is variable, but it has traditionally (even in bad years) been a larger check than the regular salary these guys get. If Wall St. didn't pay giant bonuses, these guys would all work in industries where they would get the majority of their pay up-front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Moses Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 People who complain about this may not fully understand the compensation structure of Wall Street. Bonuses aren't really a "Bonus" on Wall Street. They haven't been that way for a long while. For most Wall Street employees, a bonus is expected every year, and it is usually the LARGEST component of your compensation package for the year. If you work on Wall Street, you live off your bonus, not your salary. These people own houses that are commensurate with their bonus, not their regular salary. If they get $0 as a bonus, they won't be able to pay their mortgages. THAT SAID: I thought the bailouts were a horrible idea and a giant waste of money. However, complaining that these firms are doling out bonuses, is akin to complaining that they're paying any employees anything. You still haven't explained to me why US taxpayers should be obligated to foot the bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 It doesn't seem rational at all, I agree, but its the way it has always been on Wall Street, and Wall Street employees have come to expect that their "real paycheck" comes at the end of the year. Yes, it is incentive compensation, and it is variable, but it has traditionally (even in bad years) been a larger check than the regular salary these guys get. If Wall St. didn't pay giant bonuses, these guys would all work in industries where they would get the majority of their pay up-front. You're going to have a hard time garnering sympathy for people who expect to get their 100+% bonus on top of their six-figure salary when their companies are on the verge of collapse and require federal money to bail them out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 You still haven't explained to me why US taxpayers should be obligated to foot the bill. You're going to wait a long time for a good answer as to why executives, who have historically made very good money for quite some time, and who had immense opportunities to put money away for just such a scenario, are worthy of a bailout yet millions of individuals who live hand-to-mouth are not. Particularly when executives at ML should know better than anyone that this was inevitable; it was just a matter of when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 You're going to wait a long time for a good answer as to why executives, who have historically made very good money for quite some time, and who had immense opportunities to put money away for just such a scenario, are worthy of a bailout yet millions of individuals who live hand-to-mouth are not. Particularly when executives at ML should know better than anyone that this was inevitable; it was just a matter of when. It certainly doesn't hurt these Wall Street executives that the former head of a major investment bank (and close, personal friend of John Thain) was serving as the Secretary of the Treasury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryK Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Ok, it aint gonna ever change so here's my question: What do my kids need to major in to get in on some of this stuff? Schools, majors etc. All advice is greatly appreciated. My oldest is only 9, but this crap is perpetual, so there's plenty of time for little J-bird to get his hands into some of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rillo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Is this really surprising? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlag Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I'm down with that. How about we try a free market and a stable inflation-free currency. In a free market, Chrysler would've closed shop in the 70s, and Wall Street would've had to sort out its own problems now. The problem with selling the free market to people is that most people associate the term with Corporatism (bailouts and government support for big business), which is far from the truth. Agreed x1000000. First step, discontinue this stupid fiat monetary policy. Funny enough, people were so worried about government becoming this "1984" entity. This bailout in essence will pretty much force the issue and have the peoples consent (sort of). Citizens of this country will now just allow the government to do whatever it wants just to end the pain. They just don't realize that politicians don't have the slightest clue how the market should develop. We're forcing this green energy idea but who's to say what is the best allocation of this money? Why not let entrepreneurs try and fail/succeed in developing new energy sources instead of having the government demand that wind power must be the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Of Bavaria Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Anyone else here recall the Boston Tea Party from their high school history classes. While there is no need for anyone to falsely don Native American dress to something as revolutionary as this, I'm just sayin.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rillo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Anyone else here recall the Boston Tea Party from their high school history classes. While there is no need for anyone to falsely don Native American dress to something as revolutionary as this, I'm just sayin.............. It won't happen, Americans are scared of their government. Too many are fat/lazy and happy. IMO its already too late..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Too many are fat/lazy and happy. I've got 2 out of 3 covered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHJF Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Ok, it aint gonna ever change so here's my question: What do my kids need to major in to get in on some of this stuff? Schools, majors etc. All advice is greatly appreciated. My oldest is only 9, but this crap is perpetual, so there's plenty of time for little J-bird to get his hands into some of it. Double major: Business and Finance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlag Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 It won't happen, Americans are scared of their government. Too many are fat/lazy and happy. IMO its already too late..... Too late? No actually it's too early. You're right, Americans are complacent because they're still comfortable. Wait until millions of people lose their jobs. It will be the government that is afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Ok, it aint gonna ever change so here's my question: What do my kids need to major in to get in on some of this stuff? Schools, majors etc. All advice is greatly appreciated. My oldest is only 9, but this crap is perpetual, so there's plenty of time for little J-bird to get his hands into some of it. You mean I-banking? Probably need an IVY league school to get in. It's usually a ton of hours though. If you mean just corporate positions, a lot of that is luck and knowing the right person. Still can't hurt to come out of an IVY for that. Historically a lot of top businessman have first served in the military, but now I don't know if that is still true. It probably isn't. I just remember reading some profiles of things back from the 70s to maybe early 90s, and a lot of these big time guys seemed to have been in the military. If you just mean to have a decent field, there's a ton of options. Accounting is extremely stable though, I'd probably suggest that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rillo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Too late? No actually it's too early. You're right, Americans are complacent because they're still comfortable. Wait until millions of people lose their jobs. It will be the government that is afraid. Just don't see it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serphnx Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Too late? No actually it's too early. You're right, Americans are complacent because they're still comfortable. Wait until millions of people lose their jobs. It will be the government that is afraid. We just might need that. We are still the best country in the world though. A lot of the rest of the world is either in poverty or has high crime or extremely oppressive governments. I really do think we've got it pretty good out here. But that doesn't mean it can't be better. It should be a lot better. The government has indeed been systematically taking away constitutional rights and mismanaging and oppressing the people. The government is supposed to serve us, not bully us around and be our rulers. Frankly I'd rather just have a fascist ruler if things keep up. And that's probably exactly what was happening around the time of WW II, and if things keep up, it will be exactly what WILL happen. If somebody wakes up, a lot of problems can be headed off. If not, things are going to really come to a head in the coming years. lol, Mayan calendar (or was it Aztec?) predicts the world ends in 2012. Biblical prophesies generally predict a period of poverty and strife in the world before the thousand year kingdom. Depends on how much of that type of stuff you want to believe, but you can certainly fit your Armageddon theories in right now. I agree though with getting off the fiat policy. Frankly I'm amazed it took so long. The economy has been smoke and mirrors for decades now, I can't believe it took this long for things to start collapsing. Maybe it's because we haven't waged war and stripped another nation's resources in awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlag Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Just don't see it.... Not if they take away our right to bear arms first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlag Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 We just might need that. We are still the best country in the world though. A lot of the rest of the world is either in poverty or has high crime or extremely oppressive governments. I really do think we've got it pretty good out here. But that doesn't mean it can't be better. It should be a lot better. The government has indeed been systematically taking away constitutional rights and mismanaging and oppressing the people. The government is supposed to serve us, not bully us around and be our rulers. Frankly I'd rather just have a fascist ruler if things keep up. And that's probably exactly what was happening around the time of WW II, and if things keep up, it will be exactly what WILL happen. If somebody wakes up, a lot of problems can be headed off. If not, things are going to really come to a head in the coming years. lol, Mayan calendar (or was it Aztec?) predicts the world ends in 2012. Biblical prophesies generally predict a period of poverty and strife in the world before the thousand year kingdom. Depends on how much of that type of stuff you want to believe, but you can certainly fit your Armageddon theories in right now. I agree though with getting off the fiat policy. Frankly I'm amazed it took so long. The economy has been smoke and mirrors for decades now, I can't believe it took this long for things to start collapsing. Maybe it's because we haven't waged war and stripped another nation's resources in awhile. I don't know if I agree with the fascist ruler thing but I do think it's becoming quite evident that unemployed people have plenty of time on their hands to think. Thinking is NOT good for the government. Enter World War 3! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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