Torre book on Yankee years.

[Morrissey]

You know what though, it's going to be a long while before he's invited to the new YS...just a guess.

and that's unfortunate, but if Yogi Berra can come back, than so can Joe Torre.

Having Bernie back at the stadium during the All-Star game... WAS AWESOME!

Hopefully they have Bernie Williams day at the stadium this year.

[Vudu]

I read this in the post today. Torre sounds like a jilted lover. What is the purpose of a tell all? He just shattered his rep with Yankee nation.

[Morrissey]

I read this in the post today. Torre sounds like a jilted lover. What is the purpose of a tell all? He just shattered his rep with Yankee nation.

You mean Yankee Universe

[124]

Nothing shocking here.

A-Fraud is exactly that, a fraud.

[GimmeShelter]

I hate Michael Kaye and don't usually agree with him on a lot of things, but I'll say this: he's right about the whole "St. Joe" rep that Torre doesn't deserve. This just proves it.

When you're a baseball manager you really only have one important job; managing the pen. And when you can't do that it's time to go.

You're naive if you don't think that Kay is told to say those things. Just like when Kim Jones was sent what questions to ask Torre in the post game presser or when camera crews were ordered not to show Zimmer during the game. The Yanks FO made a lot of bad moves post 2000 and while you folks question them now in hindsight, you kill Torre for saying he did not like the moves AT THE TIME they were made.

Sometimes checkbook baseball makes a few Yankee fans forget what a POS of a FO it has. I'm curious how old the posters who think anyone could have won with the 96-2000 teams were at the time.

[GimmeShelter]

I don't like this thread, this is all ancient history. I'm really looking forward to this upcoming season.

Right....ancient history is only welcome when bringing up the Yankees 26 rings.

[Vudu]

You mean Yankee Universe

Sorry my apologies. Yankee UNIVERSE!

[Bugg]

Joe Torre is no longer the Yankee manager for exactly not getting A-rod to play well in the postseason. Torre's brilliance seemed to consist of dropping his best hitter into the 8 hole in a playoff game. Yes, he's a head case, but he was Torre's head case, and he did nothing about it. Suspect it might have interfered with Torre going out to dinner after the game or another commercial shoot.

For his first 5 years as Yankee manager he won 4 World Series. Suddenly afterward though, he starts claiming the postseason was a crapshoot, a game of chance. What was not chance was bringing dogsheet Jeff Weaver into a crucial spot in the 2003 Series, or refusing to bunt on Ol'Bloody Sock in 2004 or running on Wakefield(apparently that wouldn't be gentelmanly). And even in craps there are odds and predictable outcomes. The dice were loaded with talent in Torre's favor during those last 7 seasons, but now as per Torre that doesn't matter; it was all random. Well if you agree with his argument( and I don't), why bother overpaying Joe Torre top dollar if it's postseason success is as per your manager strictly random?What's not random is other managers like Bob Brenly, Jim Leyland, Mike Scioscia, Terry Francona, Jack Mckeon, et al took Torre'a postseason lunch money for the last 7 years. Is there anything in this insipid POS book about that?

[Bugg]

I am as big a Yankee fans as they come, and you guys are playing revisionist history here..to think any other manager could have made that '96 team into a champion is insanity.

Torre made all the right moves and did not have a superstar at every position.

Unreal for you guys to infer that Torre success with the Yankees was opportunistic at best. You should be ashamed of yourselves as Yankee fans tripping over yourselves to defend the owners.

Torre had so much more to do with the success of the team than anyone lets on....how did they do without him?

A Postseason choke the year before and then missing the playoffs for the first time in years.

I think Torre should keep his mouth shut to help his lecagy, and this book definitely takes the bloom off his rose, but to turn on him is to have no clue as to how important Torre was to the Yankee success..and from two guys who I have seem bleed nothing but pinstripes on these boards it just boggles my mind how you two can turn on him so quickly.

That all may be true. But his bullpen mismanagement and failure to deal with the A-rod situation were horrendous in his later tenure. There's no way around that.

[GimmeShelter]

One source familiar with the book told ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick that it's "inaccurate'' to suggest that Torre used it as a forum to get even with the Yankees or settle old scores.

The source said some of the controversial angles being reported in the New York tabloids have been taken out of context or "overblown.''

"Joe is very honest in the book,'' the source said, "but he doesn't make any personal attacks. In terms of him name-calling, that's not his style.''

The book is not a first-person tell-all, but rather, a third-person narrative by Verducci, who interviewed dozens of players and team personnel while researching for the book, the source said.

[Garb]

Hey Torre, STFU already. You never had a WS ring until you came to the Yankees and chances are you'll never see one again...what's the purpose of a "tell all book"?

You rejected a one year 5 mil contract two years ago...sorry, I don't feel bad for you. Enjoy Cali.

Never thought I would say this - but geez, Joe Torre is an assh*le. You throw players under a bus while still managing? You throw the team that MADE you, under the bus too? As the Yankees skipper you not only became rich, but you became a THE MAN.

What an assh*ole.

[Morrissey]

This is my problem with this whole thing. Torre knows New York, if anyone does, it's Torre. He knows this will light up the phones on talk radio, he knows the New York tabloids will eat this up, so he knows this will be distraction, so that annoys me. He's on another team now, he doesn't have to manage that clubhouse any longer, if I was Girardi, I wouldn't be a happy man.

[Scott Dierking]

This is my problem with this whole thing. Torre knows New York, if anyone does, it's Torre. He knows this will light up the phones on talk radio, he knows the New York tabloids will eat this up, so he knows this will be distraction, so that annoys me. He's on another team now, he doesn't have to manage that clubhouse any longer, if I was Girardi, I wouldn't be a happy man.

Welcome to NY.

IMO this is all overblown. The book is not yet out, all that we have seen are excerpts transcribed by a 3rd party.

[Morrissey]

Another thing that annoys me, when I was in high school, by baseball coach had a rule that if you broke it, you would be off the team. That rule is, whatever is said or done in this locker room, stays in this locker room. Joe's an old time manager, he should know this.

[Matt39]

[Scott Dierking]

Sparkey Lyle wrote the "Bronx Zoo" too.

This stuff happens.

Really, I don't see what is so incendiary.

[Bugg]

And for this piece of sage baseball advice to his star 3rd baseman, Torre expected the Yankees to pay him more than any other manager in MLB for 2008 and 2009.

[Scott Dierking]

And for this piece of sage baseball advice to his star 3rd baseman, Torre expected the Yankees to pay him more than any other manager in MLB for 2008 and 2009.

At this point, I would be much more worried how your star 3rd baseman took this advice.

[NIGHT STALKER]

Sparkey Lyle wrote the "Bronx Zoo" too.

This stuff happens.

Really, I don't see what is so incendiary.

The point is, what is the point? I don't see what the point is of writing this book if not to stir up controversy. Does Torre write this book if he's still managing the Yanks...hell no. Again, what a coincidence that it's coming out right before spring training.

[Thai Jet]

Torre is hurting his reputation with Yankee fans, I hope he knows that.

At least he was in the playoffs last year which is more than the Yankees can say.LOL

[Thai Jet]

Right....ancient history is only welcome when bringing up the Yankees 26 rings.

LOL

[NIGHT STALKER]

At least he was in the playoffs last year which is more than the Yankees can say.LOL

Or the Mets...

[Bugg]

The point is, what is the point? I don't see what the point is of writing this book if not to stir up controversy. Does Torre write this book if he's still managing the Yanks...hell no. Again, what a coincidence that it's coming out right before spring training.

It's a money grab, plain and simple. And there's nothing wrong with that. People have bills to pay, and certainly Torre has at least 2 houses(including 1 in Hawaii, at least 1 in LA and probably some property in Westchester). Cannot be a hypocrite about it. Live long and prosper.Glad to see a Brooklyn son of a cop like me is living large.

But from now on, some of the goodwill Torre had with players about the sancitity of the clubhouse goes out the window. Though in this day and age, not sure it matters all that much. Still, remember the Yankees fined David Wells for writing a tell-all book while Torre was manager. Kinda hard to take Torre seriously when he tells players that what ever they see or hear in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse after this.

[NIGHT STALKER]

It's a money grab, plain and simple. And there's nothing wrong with that. People have bills to pay, and certainly Torre has at least 2 houses(including 1 in Hawaii, at least 1 in LA and probably some property in Westchester). Cannot be a hypocrite about it. Live long and prosper.Glad to see a Brooklyn son of a cop like me is living large.

But from now on, some of the goodwill Torre had with players about the sancitity of the clubhouse goes out the window. Though in this day and age, not sure it matters all that much. Still, remember the Yankees fined David Wells for writing a tell-all book while Torre was manager. Kinda hard to take Torre seriously when he tells players that what ever they see or hear in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse after this.

I understand that to a point if you're talking about Verducci. I doubt Torre is missing making payments on his mortgages. But my point was why come out with the book right before baseball season...I just think the timing sucks.

[Morrissey]

At least he was in the playoffs last year which is more than the Yankees can say.LOL

Did that really make you laugh out loud?

Saying things like this is meaningless. Torre's Dodgers played in an awful division, and still only won 84 games. It took Manny Ramirez to save his season. Yankees won 89 games, in the best division in baseball. Dodgers and Yankees won the same thing, nothing.

[Bugg]

I understand that to a point if you're talking about Verducci. I doubt Torre is missing making payments on his mortgages. But my point was why come out with the book right before baseball season...I just think the timing sucks.

The older you get, don't care who you are, as retirement looms, you can never have enough money. And especially when you have survived cancer and have one brother dead from an early heart attack, and another that needed a heart transplant. That doesn't in my eyes make him anything worse than merely human.

Timing does suck, but it's timed for maximum media exposure as football winds down and baseball gets going.

[NIGHT STALKER]

The older you get, don't care who you are, as retirement looms, you can never have enough money. And especially when you have survived cancer and have one brother dead from an early heart attack, and another that needed a heart transplant. That doesn't in my eyes make him anything worse than merely human.

Timing does suck, but it's timed for maximum media exposure as football winds down and baseball gets going.

All the money in the world is not going to buy you immortality. And I'm sure his dependents are already set for life.

[Bugg]

All the money in the world is not going to buy you immortality. And I'm sure his dependents are already set for life.

If Torre was that concerned about his image in immortal Yankee lore, he doesn't write this book in the first place. Which is why this is a money grab. Not saying there's anything rong with that, but it does put Torre in a very different light from his classy image until this.

[NIGHT STALKER]

If Torre was that concerned about his image in immortal Yankee lore, he doesn't write this book in the first place. Which is why this is a money grab. Not saying there's anything rong with that, but it does put Torre in a very different light from his classy image until this.

I definitely agree with that. Going to be interesting when he's invited to Yankee Stadium ceremony in the future.

[GimmeShelter]

I definitely agree with that. Going to be interesting when he's invited to Yankee Stadium ceremony in the future.

Didn't the Yanks FO not include him in the video highlights during the Stadium closing festivities? Thought I heard or read that yesterday.

[Otter]

Sorry to bump this thread, but I finally got my hands on the book and read it this weekend.

Some general impressions:

• I didn't think the ARod stuff was a big deal. In fact most of the ARod revelations did not come from Torre, mostly the bullpen catcher and Verducci himself.
  
• The three people who got roasted in this book were Carl Pavano, Kevin Brown and Brian Cashman. Much worse than anything written about ARod. Mike Mussina mentioned that anytime anyone got put on the DL, the players would say "He's on the Pavano." Brown was portrayed as a crybaby who quit on the team in 04. Cashman got killed for his awful pitching signings and for trying to do a poor job of copying the Red Sox business plan.
  
• Verducci must love Ted Lilly. His name was brought up almost anytime Cashman's terrible pitching signings were written about.
  
• David Cone and Mike Mussina are major voices in the book.
  
• Torre wanted Johnny Damon after 01, but Cashman was convinced that Rondell White was the way to go.
  
• Torre killed Cashman for not resigning Bernie Williams.
  
• David Wells was not portrayed in a favorable light.
  
• Torre thought that Clemens was a good teammate, something that surprised him. Verducci interviewed MacNamee and he killed Clemens (no surprise there).
  

• Much of the book focused on how the baseball business changed over the span of the Torre years and how the Yankee organization failed to adapt.
  

Overall, I thought it was a pretty good book and a quick read. I'm left feeling very down on Cashman, mostly because of the player moves. I'm not sure how I feel about him regarding Torre. There are two sides to every story and in this one Torre really threw Cashman under the bus.

[Bob]

Sorry to bump this thread, but I finally got my hands on the book and read it this weekend.

Some general impressions:

• I didn't think the ARod stuff was a big deal. In fact most of the ARod revelations did not come from Torre, mostly the bullpen catcher and Verducci himself.
  
• The three people who got roasted in this book were Carl Pavano, Kevin Brown and Brian Cashman. Much worse than anything written about ARod. Mike Mussina mentioned that anytime anyone got put on the DL, the players would say "He's on the Pavano." Brown was portrayed as a crybaby who quit on the team in 04. Cashman got killed for his awful pitching signings and for trying to do a poor job of copying the Red Sox business plan.
  
• Verducci must love Ted Lilly. His name was brought up almost anytime Cashman's terrible pitching signings were written about.
  
• David Cone and Mike Mussina are major voices in the book.
  
• Torre wanted Johnny Damon after 01, but Cashman was convinced that Rondell White was the way to go.
  
• Torre killed Cashman for not resigning Bernie Williams.
  
• David Wells was not portrayed in a favorable light.
  
• Torre thought that Clemens was a good teammate, something that surprised him. Verducci interviewed MacNamee and he killed Clemens (no surprise there).
  

• Much of the book focused on how the baseball business changed over the span of the Torre years and how the Yankee organization failed to adapt.
  

Overall, I thought it was a pretty good book and a quick read. I'm left feeling very down on Cashman, mostly because of the player moves. I'm not sure how I feel about him regarding Torre. There are two sides to every story and in this one Torre really threw Cashman under the bus.

This is a solid review. I'd love to hear Cashman's take, but it really seems like Cash threw Torre under the bus. Actually, I think the deal to screw Torre was in place well before it actually happened. You can't tell me Clueless Joe Girardi turned down the Orioles job without knowing something better was waiting at the end of the season.

Despite Torre's name, it was really a Verducci book.

[Bugg]

Torre seems to forget that for all his faults(and I'm sure you could go on for some time), Cashman did his level best to bring Torre back from 2003 and forward. It seems really classless to knock Cashman after that.

What you can knock Cashman for is the failure to produce much worthwhile in his drafts. You have Joba, Hughes, Gardner, Kennedy and...help me out here...uh, lots of foreign guys signed with Yankee cash like Cano, Cervelli, Soriano, Melky and Wang who aren't subject to the draft. For as long as he's been running the draft, there should be much more to show for it.

Bernie was DONE. He's a legend, but by that logic you can never cut a player like that, a class guy who was a great contributor but no longer can field a position or hit much. If this was Torre's grat insight into personnel, good thing he wasn't part of the decision-making process.

Above all, Torre seems to forget his career was in the toilet until 1996, when the Yanks took a chance on him. And also that most of his good friends in the press these days were calling him Clueless Joe then. And while the press seems ready to give him a Series trophy, wait and see. The Dodgers play in the weakest division in thw weaker league.

[talisaynon]

Torre seems to forget that for all his faults(and I'm sure you could go on for some time), Cashman did his level best to bring Torre back from 2003 and forward. It seems really classless to knock Cashman after that.

What you can knock Cashman for is the failure to produce much worthwhile in his drafts. You have Joba, Hughes, Gardner, Kennedy and...help me out here...uh, lots of foreign guys signed with Yankee cash like Cano, Cervelli, Soriano, Melky and Wang who aren't subject to the draft. For as long as he's been running the draft, there should be much more to show for it.

Bernie was DONE. He's a legend, but by that logic you can never cut a player like that, a class guy who was a great contributor but no longer can field a position or hit much. If this was Torre's grat insight into personnel, good thing he wasn't part of the decision-making process.

Above all, Torre seems to forget his career was in the toilet until 1996, when the Yanks took a chance on him. And also that most of his good friends in the press these days were calling him Clueless Joe then. And while the press seems ready to give him a Series trophy, wait and see. The Dodgers play in the weakest division in thw weaker league.

Remember that Cashman's hands were tied in terms of prospects until Mr. Steinbrenner was out of the picture. Every year the system was gutted for players - Nick Johnson, Juan Rivera, Randy Choate comes to mind, as does Javy Vazquez, Dioneer Navarro etc for Randy. It wasn't until 2005 that Cash had full control of drafting and Damon Oppenheimer's first year on the job. We can't really judge Cash until we see the effects of 2005 onward. So far it looks good. We have Brett Gardner and Austin Jackson from 05; Joba, Kennedy, David Robertson, Melancon, Zack McAllister, Mitchell from 06; ummm..forget 07 ; Bleich, Turley, Brewer, Richardson from 08. This also is not factoring in our Amazing LA scouting department who has landed us Alfredo Aceves, Manuel Banuelos, and Ramiro Pena and on top of all that: Jesus Montero. Then some names coming through like Kelvin DeLeon, Jose Pirela, Aroldys Vizcaino, Hector Noesi who are all getting fast tracked. Banuelos should be shooting up prospects boards after this year.

Since we are not in a prime position to pick every year we supplement each draft with the IFA market and thats where a lot of our budget has gone to. We're not seeing the positive affects yet of our farm system, but I have a feeling we will soon.

[Otter]

Remember that Cashman's hands were tied in terms of prospects until Mr. Steinbrenner was out of the picture. Every year the system was gutted for players - Nick Johnson, Juan Rivera, Randy Choate comes to mind, as does Javy Vazquez, Dioneer Navarro etc for Randy. It wasn't until 2005 that Cash had full control of drafting and Damon Oppenheimer's first year on the job. We can't really judge Cash until we see the effects of 2005 onward. So far it looks good. We have Brett Gardner and Austin Jackson from 05; Joba, Kennedy, David Robertson, Melancon, Zack McAllister, Mitchell from 06; ummm..forget 07 ; Bleich, Turley, Brewer, Richardson from 08. This also is not factoring in our Amazing LA scouting department who has landed us Alfredo Aceves, Manuel Banuelos, and Ramiro Pena and on top of all that: Jesus Montero. Then some names coming through like Kelvin DeLeon, Jose Pirela, Aroldys Vizcaino, Hector Noesi who are all getting fast tracked. Banuelos should be shooting up prospects boards after this year.

Since we are not in a prime position to pick every year we supplement each draft with the IFA market and thats where a lot of our budget has gone to. We're not seeing the positive affects yet of our farm system, but I have a feeling we will soon.

Javy Vazquez? The guy was drafted by the Expos and didn't come to the Yankees until 04 when he was traded for Nick Johnson, Juan Rivera and Randy Choate. He was never a part of the Yankee farm system.

I do agree that the Yankee drafts have improved since 05 and the organization has always had a very good Latin American scouting department.

I think Cashman has done a pretty awful job of recognizing free agent pitching talent. He has brought in way too many over the hill arms or those that did not responded in the big moment. Steve Karsay, Kevin Brown, Jeff Weaver (via trade), Kyle Farnsworth, Jose Contreras, Esteban Loiaza (trade), Felix Heredia, Carl Pavano, Jaret Wright, Alan Embree, Ron Villone, and there are others for sure.