Manny Rameriez is going to be a Yankee: The rest of the league will look ridiculous.

[Zeebers]

His teammates loved him.

Good teammate, waste of a human being.

[Guido Monzino]

This idea that the Yankees can't sign Manny because of his behavoir and his penchant for playing when he wants is ridiculous.

First off, in his career, I have only seen him act like that once, and that was last year. I don't remember reading about Manny doing this in Cleveland...

Secondly: The Yankees have a history of having players on the team who have acted just as bad or worse than Manny. They aren't "too classy" for him.

Kenny Lofton, Gary Sheffield, Ricky Henderson, are right off the top of my head as guys who either didn't play or faked injuries in order to facilitate a trade and/or contract renewal..

hell, they even did this to the Yankees....at least in Sheff and Ricky's case.

Yankee fans need to get off their high horse and realize that if Manny were on this Yankee team he would shatter RBI records...and hit us into the world series...

which is all I care about..

if you care more for integrity than winning, you wouldn't be a Yankee fan...

you would be rooting for the Pirates

This is a bunch of Grade A crap. Telling me how to be a fan? Talk about a high horse.

To quote myself from another board:

"Never did I say that no a-holes have ever played for this team. But just because you may have in the past, doesn't mean you now have license to go sign the biggest one available.

My motivation here is simple.

I became old enough to start appreciating baseball in the mid 80's. This was a time when the Yankees were not very good. I grew up in a household ruled by Mets fans. My father and his father were both former Dodgers fans who had adopted the Mets as their own. When I was 10 years old, the Mets won the World Series. I could have easily been a Mets fan.

But one thing happened: I saw Don Mattingly play. I saw a man who wasn't the most talented guy in baseball, but for a period was its best player. I saw a guy who worked hard, a guy with determination, and a guy who poured his heart out on every play. It inspired me as a young boy. I wanted to be him. From that point forward, I tried to emulate that attitude, not only on the playing fields, but in many other aspects of my life. I have found that the "never quit, work hard" attitude has served me well and helped me overcome a lot of adversity.

This interest in Mattingly at the time opened my young eyes to a rich history of the New York Yankees. I learned about guys like Thurman Munson. Bobby Murcer. Mickey Mantle. Lou Gehrig. Casey Stengel. I heard that when Joe Dimaggio was asked why he played so hard, he replied "Because there might be some kid in the stands who is seeing me play for the first time".

This is what the Yankees represent to me. I don't just root for the uniform. I focus also on the tradition of excellence. The pride. Are there stains from the past? Sure. Who doesn't? But those great players and those great moments FAR, FAR outweigh the (Ricky Hendersons or Roger Clemens) of the world.

Manny Ramirez to me represents the opposite of all of that. He would be just another stain. He's the anti-Mattingly. He has all the talent and none of the effort. He doesn't deserve the talent or the money that he has been blessed with. I have no interest in watching him loaf around and showing off every day. Like someone before said, when I have kids, I don't want to be explaining to them about Manny being Manny. I'd much rather lament about Jeter being Jeter.

He could knock in 200 runs for all I care. But I still don't want to watch him every day. F Manny Ramirez."

[piney]

This is a bunch of Grade A crap. Telling me how to be a fan? Talk about a high horse.

To quote myself from another board:

"Never did I say that no a-holes have ever played for this team. But just because you may have in the past, doesn't mean you now have license to go sign the biggest one available.

My motivation here is simple.

I became old enough to start appreciating baseball in the mid 80's. This was a time when the Yankees were not very good. I grew up in a household ruled by Mets fans. My father and his father were both former Dodgers fans who had adopted the Mets as their own. When I was 10 years old, the Mets won the World Series. I could have easily been a Mets fan.

But one thing happened: I saw Don Mattingly play. I saw a man who wasn't the most talented guy in baseball, but for a period was its best player. I saw a guy who worked hard, a guy with determination, and a guy who poured his heart out on every play. It inspired me as a young boy. I wanted to be him. From that point forward, I tried to emulate that attitude, not only on the playing fields, but in many other aspects of my life. I have found that the "never quit, work hard" attitude has served me well and helped me overcome a lot of adversity.

This interest in Mattingly at the time opened my young eyes to a rich history of the New York Yankees. I learned about guys like Thurman Munson. Bobby Murcer. Mickey Mantle. Lou Gehrig. Casey Stengel. I heard that when Joe Dimaggio was asked why he played so hard, he replied "Because there might be some kid in the stands who is seeing me play for the first time".

This is what the Yankees represent to me. I don't just root for the uniform. I focus also on the tradition of excellence. The pride. Are there stains from the past? Sure. Who doesn't? But those great players and those great moments FAR, FAR outweigh the (Ricky Hendersons or Roger Clemens) of the world.

Manny Ramirez to me represents the opposite of all of that. He would be just another stain. He's the anti-Mattingly. He has all the talent and none of the effort. He doesn't deserve the talent or the money that he has been blessed with. I have no interest in watching him loaf around and showing off every day. Like someone before said, when I have kids, I don't want to be explaining to them about Manny being Manny. I'd much rather lament about Jeter being Jeter.

He could knock in 200 runs for all I care. But I still don't want to watch him every day. F Manny Ramirez."

I probably have the same experience, Donnie Baseball was my favorite growing up to.

But Dimaggio and Mantle were also reprehensible jerks. One was an alcoholic womanizer and the other a stuck up old man who turned his nose up and tried to scam free meals.

These two are the gold standard?

Since when does on the field consistency equate to this fairy tale fantasy world where they can be considered heroes.

They aren't heroes, the are athletes.

Overgrown adolescents. Nothing more.

There are very rare examples of great player and great man....very rare.

To think there are some sort of "good old days" when they played for the love of the game....is just insane.

Don't look to baseball players, or athletes at all, as heroes or role models.

Don't buy into the hype either.

They are just games, you tell your kids to focus on the good ones.

Manny and his ilk are the ones you say, "see this guy, he is a bum and here is why..."

They all serve a purpose.

P.S.

hope you know I am just deabting my point, in no way am I tell you personally how to think. Would hate to offend when I don't intend to.

[Guido Monzino]

I probably have the same experience, Donnie Baseball was my favorite growing up to.

But Dimaggio and Mantle were also reprehensible jerks. One was an alcoholic womanizer and the other a stuck up old man who turned his nose up and tried to scam free meals.

These two are the gold standard?

Since when does on the field consistency equate to this fairy tale fantasy world where they can be considered heroes.

They aren't heroes, the are athletes.

Overgrown adolescents. Nothing more.

There are very rare examples of great player and great man....very rare.

To think there are some sort of "good old days" when they played for the love of the game....is just insane.

Don't look to baseball players, or athletes at all, as heroes or role models.

Don't buy into the hype either.

They are just games, you tell your kids to focus on the good ones.

Manny and his ilk are the ones you say, "see this guy, he is a bum and here is why..."

They all serve a purpose.

P.S.

hope you know I am just deabting my point, in no way am I tell you personally how to think. Would hate to offend when I don't intend to.

Those are my standards. I pay a lot of money when I go to a baseball game. That money largely goes to the overinflated salaries of these players. So in return, I expect a big effort out them. Manny doesn't do that. I could care less that Mantle scored with women. He gave his all on the field. So did Dimaggio. And like I said, just because there may have been bad guys on this team in the past, doesn't mean I'm opening my arms to more. As the saying goes, two wrongs don't make a right.

Sure, jerks exist in baseball. But why would I ask for one to be on the team I root for? I can tell my kids what an a-hole Manny is when he's playing on a different team. All I ask from them is to not put me in a position where I have to root for a guy I have little or no respect for. I have my plate full with ARod already.

[Morrissey]

Those are my standards. I pay a lot of money when I go to a baseball game. That money largely goes to the overinflated salaries of these players. So in return, I expect a big effort out them. Manny doesn't do that. I could care less that Mantle scored with women. He gave his all on the field. So did Dimaggio. And like I said, just because there may have been bad guys on this team in the past, doesn't mean I'm opening my arms to more. As the saying goes, two wrongs don't make a right.

Sure, jerks exist in baseball. But why would I ask for one to be on the team I root for? I can tell my kids what an a-hole Manny is when he's playing on a different team. All I ask from them is to not put me in a position where I have to root for a guy I have little or no respect for. I have my plate full with ARod already.

Say what you want about A-Rod, the guy comes to camp in shape, he busts his ass to win, maybe too hard, and comes to play everyday.

[Guido Monzino]

Say what you want about A-Rod, the guy comes to camp in shape, he busts his ass to win, maybe too hard, and comes to play everyday.

I partially agree. He works hard, but in a similar regard to how Manny "works hard" (although I'd say he stays in much better shape than Ramirez. I think Manny just works on his hitting). But they're both 100% in it for himself. I don't think he has a genuine interest in working hard for the team and the cause of victory. He wants to pad his stats. I have a hard time respecting that motivation.

ARod is particularly weird in that he doesn't care at all about the fans, he cares about what the fans think of him. Manny doesn't care either way.

Like I said, I give the most respect to guys like Mattingly who put it all on the line, any success was a bonus. No one disrespected him even when he become a shell of his former self as a player, because of his desire. With Manny, I respect his talent, but I really wish it had been given to someone more deserving.

[piney]

Those are my standards. I pay a lot of money when I go to a baseball game. That money largely goes to the overinflated salaries of these players. So in return, I expect a big effort out them. Manny doesn't do that. I could care less that Mantle scored with women. He gave his all on the field. So did Dimaggio. And like I said, just because there may have been bad guys on this team in the past, doesn't mean I'm opening my arms to more. As the saying goes, two wrongs don't make a right.

Sure, jerks exist in baseball. But why would I ask for one to be on the team I root for? I can tell my kids what an a-hole Manny is when he's playing on a different team. All I ask from them is to not put me in a position where I have to root for a guy I have little or no respect for. I have my plate full with ARod already.

Well, I get where you're coming from even though I disagree vehemently.

Lets just take Mantle....you say scored with the ladies, I say abandoned his wife and children and slept around and got drunk all the time. Yeah, he played his heart out, he played hurt, he sacrificed his body for the game. He was still a bum for what his personal life is like.

Guys like Mattingly are far too rare to hold most players up to his standard. I would love it if every player was like that, but they aren't.

Me, I say, you expect big money out of me and a commitment of my time to this sport, I expect you to bend over backwards to put the best team on the field. I don't want the Yankees to suddenly grow a conscious and cheat me out of what could be a memorable season.

They have never done that before. Ever. Hell Reggie could be the poster boy for these antics. Yet the guy entertained and provided great memories, and one of the greatest baseball moments in the history of the sport during the World Series.

Should that be tarnished simply due to the fact that he was only in it for himself?

Not to me. I feel lucky and fortunate when the rare player who does it all comes along, and I can really get behind them and root for them. Other than that I root for my team.

Let's face it, we had Shane Spencer and Ricky Ledee in LF for a while....and they seemd like good guys who tried real hard...but I and the majority of Yankee fans didn't mind seeing them replaced by David Justice.

To me, I have to separate what I want the team to do with what I wish they could do. There aren't enough good-guy, play tough and hard, leave it on the field, team players out there to think I would ever see otherwise.

Like I said, most baseball players never get past the maturity level of a 19 year old. They are never forced to grow up when they can play a childs game from prepubescence until their late 30's.

I can't hold them to a higher standard...because not only do they not care, but they always dissapoint.

I concentrate on the game, my love of the unique and wonderful game of baseball. Once in a while I find a guy I can point to and say to my kids, "This guy here, he is a special kind of player."

Until I find the next "Mattingly" I will concentrate on the homeruns, the shutout innings, the great diving catches, the poetry of a doubleplay, the productive out, and the gamewinning RBI.

Those are really the only pure thing about baseball in the end.

[Guido Monzino]

Well, I get where you're coming from even though I disagree vehemently.

Lets just take Mantle....you say scored with the ladies, I say abandoned his wife and children and slept around and got drunk all the time. Yeah, he played his heart out, he played hurt, he sacrificed his body for the game. He was still a bum for what his personal life is like.

Guys like Mattingly are far too rare to hold most players up to his standard. I would love it if every player was like that, but they aren't.

Me, I say, you expect big money out of me and a commitment of my time to this sport, I expect you to bend over backwards to put the best team on the field. I don't want the Yankees to suddenly grow a conscious and cheat me out of what could be a memorable season.

They have never done that before. Ever. Hell Reggie could be the poster boy for these antics. Yet the guy entertained and provided great memories, and one of the greatest baseball moments in the history of the sport during the World Series.

Should that be tarnished simply due to the fact that he was only in it for himself?

Not to me. I feel lucky and fortunate when the rare player who does it all comes along, and I can really get behind them and root for them. Other than that I root for my team.

Let's face it, we had Shane Spencer and Ricky Ledee in LF for a while....and they seemd like good guys who tried real hard...but I and the majority of Yankee fans didn't mind seeing them replaced by David Justice.

To me, I have to separate what I want the team to do with what I wish they could do. There aren't enough good-guy, play tough and hard, leave it on the field, team players out there to think I would ever see otherwise.

Like I said, most baseball players never get past the maturity level of a 19 year old. They are never forced to grow up when they can play a childs game from prepubescence until their late 30's.

I can't hold them to a higher standard...because not only do they not care, but they always dissapoint.

I concentrate on the game, my love of the unique and wonderful game of baseball. Once in a while I find a guy I can point to and say to my kids, "This guy here, he is a special kind of player."

Until I find the next "Mattingly" I will concentrate on the homeruns, the shutout innings, the great diving catches, the poetry of a doubleplay, the productive out, and the gamewinning RBI.

Those are really the only pure thing about baseball in the end.

I know what you're saying to an extent, but to me, Manny Ramirez is just completely intolerable. You mention guys like Justice. Although not a model ballplayer, I'd take a 100 Justices over one Manny Ramirez. I see Manny Ramirez and I literally want to slap him in the head. I DESPISE this man. HATE him. There is no other player in baseball that I would say that if he were to be acquired by the Yankees, I would have a serious hard time with it. Not one.

[Guido Monzino]

Last thing I want to say about this is that I guess I buy into the whole "winning isn't everything" stuff. It's not just a cliche to me. When I played and even now, I appreciate the entrtainment of the game in two ways. When my team wins, yes, that's great. But I take equal enjoyment in watching the effort of indiviual players. I enjoy sportsmanship. I love respect for the game. These are things I valued, and things I look for in others.

And lastly, I also hold true to my belief that Manny isn't necessary for this team to win. We've tried to build on offense for several years now and it has been a mistake. I like the new focus on pitching. This lineup is strong enough. Continue to spend that money on pitching - spend it on free agents, draft picks, development and scouting. Build me a dominant pitching staff. That's how this team has traditionally won, and how it will win in the future.

[piney]

Last thing I want to say about this is that I guess I buy into the whole "winning isn't everything" stuff. It's not just a cliche to me. When I played and even now, I appreciate the entrtainment of the game in two ways. When my team wins, yes, that's great. But I take equal enjoyment in watching the effort of indiviual players. I enjoy sportsmanship. I love respect for the game. These are things I valued, and things I look for in others.

And lastly, I also hold true to my belief that Manny isn't necessary for this team to win. We've tried to build on offense for several years now and it has been a mistake. I like the new focus on pitching. This lineup is strong enough. Continue to spend that money on pitching - spend it on free agents, draft picks, development and scouting. Build me a dominant pitching staff. That's how this team has traditionally won, and how it will win in the future.

well, to the "winning isn't everything" I will ask you a question:

Which season did you enjoy the most 1998 or 2001.

To me, the 2001 team, it's story, and the way they played fit your description more than the 1998 team.

Secondly, dominant pitching staffs are a myth. In my lifetime so far, the most dominant pitching staff I have seen were the Braves of the 90's. It wasn't enough. They won one title. Look at the teams who have won, they didn't do it by having dominant staffs, they did it with talented staffs that played at the top of their game for the year they won.

Does Philly hae a dominant staff? I would argue no. They had an ace, got good performances, but to me are far from a dominant staff.

Get a horse, put some quality in the rotation, and hope for the best. It is all you can do for your team.

Lastly, I would use David Justice as an example of getting the right hitter. Justice was a catalyst when he came to the Yankees, he solidified that line-up and made them very dangerous up and down. DId the Yankees really need him? Could they have won with Spencer/Ledee in left? Possibly, maybe, but they didn't have to find out. They pulled the trigger, got the extra bat for a steal of a deal, brought in a guy with "baggage" and played some fantastic baseball. His HR against Seattle in the ALCS was the loudest I have ever heard the stadium.

I even remember when he was brought over Yankee fans on the radio talk shows were not too thrilled with having a "bad guy" on the team. They lamented the fact that the Yanks needed pitching that year, not another slugger. (they were still in love with Shane Spencer at the time).

I doubt it affected their enjoyment of the games.

Manny isn't just a slugger, if he were (like say Adam Dunn) I wouldn't want him.

Manny is a guy who has done it in the past, done it in tough markets, and has done it in the World Series.

This guy is built for this team right now.

Manny would mean more to the 2009 Yankees than David Justice meant to the 2000 Yankees.

[Scott Dierking]

Simple question here-

If the Yankees do not pursue Manny, does it mean that they actually DO have a budget, and that winning isn't above everything else?

[Jbro22]

Simple question here-

If the Yankees do not pursue Manny, does it mean that they actually DO have a budget, and that winning isn't above everything else?

What?

[Scott Dierking]

What?

Many Yankee fans have told me that George S is so committed to winning, that the budget is of no concern, just ensuring championships. Thus, the justification of being at least 35% higher in payroll than the rest of the team, they were just spending "whatever" to win.

If I am told that the Yankees DO in fact have a payroll budget, it would be an admission that the Yankees just use their "position" to best advantage.No problem with that, and every club plays the cards they are given.

But it would explode teh myth that some Yankee fans told me throughout the years-The Yankees just do everything they have to do every year to win.

[Jbro22]

Many Yankee fans have told me that George S is so committed to winning, that the budget is of no concern, just ensuring championships. Thus, the justification of being at least 35% higher in payroll than the rest of the team, they were just spending "whatever" to win.

If I am told that the Yankees DO in fact have a payroll budget, it would be an admission that the Yankees just use their "position" to best advantage.No problem with that, and every club plays the cards they are given.

But it would explode teh myth that some Yankee fans told me throughout the years-The Yankees just do everything they have to do every year to win.

Are you a child? Obviously there's a budget.

[Scott Dierking]

Are you a child? Obviously there's a budget.

I have said that for years, that the Yankees are using their decided advantage and out-spending everyone else based on a budget advantage.

Some Yankee fans have told me The Yankees spend "whatever" just to "win". That is how the budget is based, upon what it takes to win.

Hard to believe, I know.

[Sharrow]

Anyone think they'll reconsider now? Might take some heat off of everyone finding out that A-Roid is a cheater?

[nyjunc]

Anyone think they'll reconsider now? Might take some heat off of everyone finding out that A-Roid is a cheater?

Until it comes out Manny used(and it will come out).

[Sharrow]

Until it comes out Manny used(and it will come out).

Might as well sign him then. At least he'll fit in.

[GimmeShelter]

Say what you want about A-Rod, the guy comes to camp in shape, he busts his ass to win, maybe too hard, and comes to play everyday.

[Matt39]

[Morrissey]

A-Rod sucks at life, he really does.

[GimmeShelter]

A-Rod sucks at life, he really does.

I wouldn't take it too hard. Remember when the BALCO story first broke many players like Schilling said 1/2 the league was using. We just don't know all the names which is why I was always amused at how people would kill Bonds when they had to realize some of their players would eventually get named.

I have to admit , streroid and HGH namings has been particulary rough on the Yankee fan due to the volume and high profile players involved. Let's hope Tex wasn't involved in that Ranger clubhouse.

[Morrissey]

I wouldn't take it too hard. Remember when the BALCO story first broke many players like Schilling said 1/2 the league was using. We just don't know all the names which is why I was always amused at how people would kill Bonds when they had to realize some of their players would eventually get named.

I have to admit , streroid and HGH namings has been particulary rough on the Yankee fan due to the volume and high profile players involved. Let's hope Tex wasn't involved in that Ranger clubhouse.

Both New York teams have a large number of players named, because both sources have come from McNamee and Radomski. Unfortunately the Yankees have some high profile players.

[FF2]

Might as well have all the cheaters on one team.

[piney]

[quote name='FF2

[FF2]

rings still look the same....games still feel good to watch...

Sounds like a Pats fan.

[piney]

[quote name='FF2