The Big East-Haters thread.

[uart]

Keep it in here, jerks.

[gangreenman]

Keep it in here, jerks.

Good call. +1 for the Nova fan.

[nyjunc]

I'm not a BE hater I am a realist and get tired of how overhyped that conf always is.

[Jets Babe]

**** USF.

[uart]

**** USF.

THAT is a perfectly fine topic of discussion for the real Big East thread.

[uart]

I'm not a BE hater I am a realist and get tired of how overhyped that conf always is.

It isn't overhyped at all. Big East schools recruit better and have tougher conference schedules than non-BE... Nonetheless, keep it in here.

I want to discuss Big East basketball for real in the other thread, instead of fighting over what Sagarin's computer seems to think about the conferences.

[Jets Babe]

THAT is a perfectly fine topic of discussion for the real Big East thread.

oh, ok. because USF is a piece-of-****, over-rated, STUPID school with scumbags for fans. just putting that out there.

[nyjunc]

It isn't overhyped at all. Big East schools recruit better and have tougher conference schedules than non-BE... Nonetheless, keep it in here.

I want to discuss Big East basketball for real in the other thread, instead of fighting over what Sagarin's computer seems to think about the conferences.

Then why have only FIVE Big East schools reached the Final Four since 1990? if it was better, if they recruited better and played tougher scheds wouldn't it prepare them for March?

[uart]

Playing a tough schedule wears you down. We also have a tough conference tourney. Wears you down, makes it harder to say "on" for that many games.

When you are playing nothing but "big" games from January through March, it takes a toll.

[nyjunc]

Playing a tough schedule wears you down. We also have a tough conference tourney. Wears you down, makes it harder to say "on" for that many games.

When you are playing nothing but "big" games from January through March, it takes a toll.

Ohhhhh I get it. What does palying half your games against a weak bottom side of the conf do to you? The ACC has been the best conf in most years over the past 20-30 years- how come it hasn't stopped ACC teams from making FF runs?

The best conf should be able to produce more than 5 FF teams in 20 years.

[uart]

Ohhhhh I get it. What does palying half your games against a weak bottom side of the conf do to you? The ACC has been the best conf in most years over the past 20-30 years- how come it hasn't stopped ACC teams from making FF runs?

The best conf should be able to produce more than 5 FF teams in 20 years.

LOL. The ACC has never been as good as THIS Big East.

Besides the argument isn't which conference was the best in 1995, it is which conference is the best RIGHT NOW. Top-to-bottom, the Big East is a bad-ass 16-team conference of death. USF is the only really weak link, and they can still manage a win over a top-10 team on a good day.

And I WILL give the ACC their due, it's one of the top conferences. BUT, right now, you can't beat the BE.

[nyjunc]

LOL. The ACC has never been as good as THIS Big East.

Besides the argument isn't which conference was the best in 1995, it is which conference is the best RIGHT NOW. Top-to-bottom, the Big East is a bad-ass 16-team conference of death. USF is the only really weak link, and they can still manage a win over a top-10 team on a good day.

And I WILL give the ACC their due, it's one of the top conferences. BUT, right now, you can't beat the BE.

Have you followed CBB long? THIS year's ACC is better than this years BE and this years ACC doesn't compare to most years of the last 20-30.

The bottom half of the BE is dreadful, there are 5-6 BAD teams, there are MAYBE 1-2 in the ACC.

The ACC has the comfortable edge in head to head matchups an dhas the more impreessive showing in the non-conference. As the weeks go by the BE ranked teams keep dropping. Now the BE has 6 and the ACC 5 but there is a higher % of ACC teams ranked. The ACC is better NOW and has beenin MOST years. You cannot send just 5 teams to the FF in 20 years and be taken seriosuly as a top conference.

[nyjunc]

Here is some nice reading material from Joe Lunardi:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3895251

The Big East is underachieving not because of a meat grinder at the top, but because at least two of its most talented clubs can't beat teams at the bottom. That's not parity. That's bad basketball.

The winner in all this? It's the ACC, with eight of its 12 teams in the current field. If that holds -- also unlikely -- it would be the most impressive single-season showing by any conference ever. Even a final tally of six or seven NCAA tournament teams, by percentage, would rank the ACC ahead of the Big East.

[gangreenman]

Here is some nice reading material from Joe Lunardi:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3895251

Which two top teams was he referring to? Gtown? ND? Syracuse? I don't think anyone was making the argument that any of those teams were at the "top" of the BE. In fact, Syracuse was predicted by BE coaches to finish 8th in the conference this season, which is right in the middle, and right where they currently are. I always thought ND was overrated. In order to beat teams down the stretch you need more then just a big man and a shooter. You need depth and you need quickness. Both of which ND lacks this season. Georgetown I'll agree has vastly underperformed this season.

[uart]

Here is some nice reading material from Joe Lunardi:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3895251

Lunardi is a biased d-bag.

He went to St. Joes and has Big East penis-envy.

[uart]

That same 31 team struggled to beat a mediocre Michigan team at home a few days later. Marquette beat Villanova and Villanova only has 1 quality win all year(beating Pitt) and Wisconsin stinks so that's nothing to crow about.

Duke should have dropped a few more spots.

So wait, beating ranked opponents (Syracuse) doesn't count as a quality win unless the team is ranked higher? Or do only top-5/10 teams count as quality wins? If that's the case, then there must not be many quality wins to go around.

Oh, and from now on, I'm replying to all hater-posts from the Big East discussion thread in here.

[gangreenman]

So wait, beating ranked opponents (Syracuse) doesn't count as a quality win unless the team is ranked higher? Or do only top-5/10 teams count as quality wins? If that's the case, then there must not be many quality wins to go around.

Oh, and from now on, I'm replying to all hater-posts from the Big East discussion thread in here.

No, even if the team is ranked higher it doesn't count as a quality win apparently when its a Big East team. Thats why when SU beat Kansas, Florida, and Memphis earlier this season, they weren't quality wins. In order for a Big East team to have a quality win, it has to come either against a top 5 team, or an ACC team...Unless of course, its a crappy ACC team, which only exist when its convenient for nyjunc, like Virginia, NC State, Virginia Tech, BC, or Maryland.

[nyjunc]

No, even if the team is ranked higher it doesn't count as a quality win apparently when its a Big East team. Thats why when SU beat Kansas, Florida, and Memphis earlier this season, they weren't quality wins. In order for a Big East team to have a quality win, it has to come either against a top 5 team, or an ACC team...Unless of course, its a crappy ACC team, which only exist when its convenient for nyjunc, like Virginia, NC State, Virginia Tech, BC, or Maryland.

The 3 teams SU beat all struggled in non-conf and have come back beating weak teams in their weak conf's. SU is playing awful basketball lately, SU also lost to Cleveland State at HOME when they were playing well. Let's not act like SU beat '07 UF, or '08 KU or memphis.

[gangreenman]

The 3 teams SU beat all struggled in non-conf and have come back beating weak teams in their weak conf's. SU is playing awful basketball lately, SU also lost to Cleveland State at HOME when they were playing well. Let's not act like SU beat '07 UF, or '08 KU or memphis.

Florida and Kansas were both ranked ahead of 'Cuse at the time...So what's your point?

[nyjunc]

Florida and Kansas were both ranked ahead of 'Cuse at the time...So what's your point?

and all 3 were unranked until they got into conf play and started beating up the weak teams in their leagues.

[gangreenman]

and all 3 were unranked until they got into conf play and started beating up the weak teams in their leagues.

So they were ranked ahead when we played them, and they're ranked ahead now... Yet, they weren't quality wins?

I'm sure glad the selection committee doesn't use the same logic you seem to.

[nyjunc]

So they were ranked ahead when we played them, and they're ranked ahead now... Yet, they weren't quality wins?

I'm sure glad the selection committee doesn't use the same logic you seem to.

Overrated to begin the season, they lost a bunch of non-conf gamnes to fall out then beat up on weak league teams and are back in. The one tea that might be for real now is memphis. I'm not sold at all on KU or UF.

[gangreenman]

Overrated to begin the season, they lost a bunch of non-conf gamnes to fall out then beat up on weak league teams and are back in. The one tea that might be for real now is memphis. I'm not sold at all on KU or UF.

Memphis I believe had two OOC losses, @Gtown and at home against Syracuse. When they played Syracuse, they were ranked I believe 12th, and it was 2 weeks before conference play started. I don't see your argument with them. With KU and UF, okay, they both had rather weak OOC's. But they're clearly the class of their conferences and were ranked ahead of us coming in. So in my mind, they are both quality wins.

[nyjunc]

Memphis I believe had two OOC losses, @Gtown and at home against Syracuse. When they played Syracuse, they were ranked I believe 12th, and it was 2 weeks before conference play started. I don't see your argument with them. With KU and UF, okay, they both had rather weak OOC's. But they're clearly the class of their conferences and were ranked ahead of us coming in. So in my mind, they are both quality wins.

Memphis' Non-conf wins:

Fairfield

UMass

Chattanooga

Seton Hall

Marist

Ark-Little Rock

Drexel

Cincy

Northeastern

Lamar

Marshall

[gangreenman]

Memphis' Non-conf wins:

Fairfield

UMass

Chattanooga

Seton Hall

Marist

Ark-Little Rock

Drexel

Cincy

Northeastern

Lamar

Marshall

I guess Gonzaga doesn't count?

And so now Memphis is overrated to? Jeez.

[nyjunc]

I guess Gonzaga doesn't count?

And so now Memphis is overrated to? Jeez.

That was the pre-conf sched and Gonzaga hasn't exactly lit the World on fire but that is their best non-conf win. I have said all along Memhis has been overrated BUT they are getting better. They should be ranked closer to 20 than 10.

[SouthernJet]

Playing a tough schedule wears you down. We also have a tough conference tourney. Wears you down, makes it harder to say "on" for that many games.

When you are playing nothing but "big" games from January through March, it takes a toll.

i seriously hope u were kidding...cause if not u kind of lost like all credibility

[SouthernJet]

when u say conf vs conf , thats where it gets difficult and makes the acc better IMHO..cause conf implies whole conf,,all teams in conf..cause top teams get ez wins , 1 or 2, against these creampuffs..

In acc, even bottom 3 or 4 teams , mary, nc state, geo tech, virg (ehh, vir maybe not ) has realistic chance of beating any team..but can we say that about bottom 4 teams of big east? st jon, sou fla, rutgers, depaul??? I think not. these teams provide 1 to 2 almost guaranteed victories to every BE team and therefore sweet looking records..

NOW, if you take those 4 slugs out of BE, and then I might say BE better than acc this year..

But when using words 'conference' you have to take into account the whole conference. You cant say 'we have more top 10, or top 25s, cause the questions wasnt 'who has best top tier , or 'best 6 teams etc' It was what conf is better..

But wtf do i know

we can all agree these are 2 damn great conferences

[uart]

.but can we say that about bottom 4 teams of big east? st jon, sou fla, rutgers, depaul??? I think not. these teams provide 1 to 2 almost guaranteed victories to every BE team and therefore sweet looking records..

NOW, if you take those 4 slugs out of BE, and then I might say BE better than acc this year..

USF has proven that they CAN beat anyone. They play a lot of close games. They aren't a great team, but they aren't awful either. You can't ignore them.

Rutgers has been doing well with recruiting, and they are a program that is rebuilding. Will they ever be a powerhouse? Maybe not. Nonetheless, they can rack up some wins, and they certainly don't roll over -- especially not at the RAC.

St. Johns is in that same zone as Rutgers & Seton Hall. Lesser programs, but still playing at a level higher than your average mid-major.

As for DePaul, they'll be back. In the meantime they usually get one or two wins that you wouldn't expect every year.

[nyjunc]

USF has proven that they CAN beat anyone. They play a lot of close games. They aren't a great team, but they aren't awful either. You can't ignore them.

Rutgers has been doing well with recruiting, and they are a program that is rebuilding. Will they ever be a powerhouse? Maybe not. Nonetheless, they can rack up some wins, and they certainly don't roll over -- especially not at the RAC.

St. Johns is in that same zone as Rutgers & Seton Hall. Lesser programs, but still playing at a level higher than your average mid-major.

As for DePaul, they'll be back. In the meantime they usually get one or two wins that you wouldn't expect every year.

When did USF prove that? when they beat that fraud Marquette who hadn't beaten anynone?

RU is doing well w/ recruting, I have been hearing that since Bob Wenzel was the HC.

SJU is not playing anywhere near the level of a high mid major. SH has an excellentr coach, if they can get some players in there they will be good.

Depaul will be back? from what? They haven't been relevant since Mark Aguire was there.

[gangreenman]

When did USF prove that? when they beat that fraud Marquette who hadn't beaten anynone?

RU is doing well w/ recruting, I have been hearing that since Bob Wenzel was the HC.

SJU is not playing anywhere near the level of a high mid major. SH has an excellentr coach, if they can get some players in there they will be good.

Depaul will be back? from what? They haven't been relevant since Mark Aguire was there.

USF has played a LOT of teams close, especially at home. Syracuse only won by 5 there when they were playing well, I believe they were tied with pit about midway through the 2nd half when the two teams played there. They're not a good team, but they're average enough to give anyone a scare if they're playing well and the other team isn't focused.

[nyjunc]

USF has played a LOT of teams close, especially at home. Syracuse only won by 5 there when they were playing well, I believe they were tied with pit about midway through the 2nd half when the two teams played there. They're not a good team, but they're average enough to give anyone a scare if they're playing well and the other team isn't focused.

Let's see who USF played close:

non-conf(went 4-7):

-lost at UVa by 2(1 close loss)

-lost at UAB by 1(2)

-lost at UCF by 8

-lost at Vandy by 19

-lost at Wright St. by 17

-lost at oral Roberts by 23

Basically they didn't play 1 quality team in non-conf and had just 2 close losses.

[gangreenman]

Let's see who USF played close:

non-conf(went 4-7):

-lost at UVa by 2(1 close loss)

-lost at UAB by 1(2)

-lost at UCF by 8

-lost at Vandy by 19

-lost at Wright St. by 17

-lost at oral Roberts by 23

Basically they didn't play 1 quality team in non-conf and had just 2 close losses.

All those games were road games... They don't have many close calls on the road in the BE either. As I said, they're not a good team. But they're average enough to give anyone a scare when they play at home.

[uart]

When did USF prove that? when they beat that fraud Marquette who hadn't beaten anynone?

As GGM said, they've played a lot of teams closely. They lose most of those games, but they aren't being blown out by every BE team. They put up a fight against 'Nova this year.

RU is doing well w/ recruting, I have been hearing that since Bob Wenzel was the HC.

They recruited the third Corey... Stokes and Fisher ended up at 'Nova, but there was also Corey Chandler (i think?) that was tearing it up in NJ, and he went to Rutgers. Honestly they are competing with SHU and SJU for recruits moreso than the Villanova/Syracuse/Pitt/UConn's of the league, but Coach Hill learned a few tricks as Jay Wright's assistant.

[gangreenman]

Boston College...The Class of the ACC!!! (that lost to Harvard)