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First Round/Why hate on Lowery?


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First question:

Why the hate on Lowery. This guy was a friggin 4th Rounder that stepped right in and played, oh and PLAYED WELL. (Ask Gholston what that's like)

He showed all the skills, then, like all rookies, many things happened. We know Mangini's conditioning succked becauce the whole team, starting with Jenkings on down collapsed after 11 games, maybe they were get ready for college.So the kid was not conditioned. He got NO calls cause he's a rook.

He lost his confidence. The CS again, we know,succked, so there were no adjustments, just "get out Rook, you got burnt"

He'll come back with Rex and play his a$$ off, he's got the tools, he proved it!!!

I'm saying, Id rather go WR or SS in the first, something we KNOW FOR sure we need!

We KNOW we have no downfield threat.

We KNOW we have no playmaking Safety helping Rhodes.

We MIGHT have a great #2 CB, we don't KNOW.

Plus we have enough for the whole league, Poteat,Law,Barrett,Coleman ,Lowery.....trade them all for one guy.We tried Law, then Dyson, thirds a charm.

HERE SOME IDEAS:

SS

Nic Harris, SS, Oklahoma-a hard hitting punishing basstard 6'3 - 230 lbs.

Kevin Ellison, SS, USC- another hard hitter, great run support 6'1 225

WR

Darrius Heyward-Bey-Maryland- We wish, he's the guy. what a steal.

Percy Harvin- little Santana Moss guy

Actually a few good guys coming out.

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First question:

Why the hate on Lowery. This guy was a friggin 4th Rounder that stepped right in and played, oh and PLAYED WELL. (Ask Gholston what that's like)

He showed all the skills, then, like all rookies, many things happened. We know Mangini's conditioning succked becauce the whole team, starting with Jenkings on down collapsed after 11 games, maybe they were get ready for college.So the kid was not conditioned. He got NO calls cause he's a rook.

He lost his confidence. The CS again, we know,succked, so there were no adjustments, just "get out Rook, you got burnt"

He'll come back with Rex and play his a$$ off, he's got the tools, he proved it!!!

I'm saying, Id rather go WR or SS in the first, something we KNOW FOR sure we need!

We KNOW we have no downfield threat.

We KNOW we have no playmaking Safety helping Rhodes.

We MIGHT have a great #2 CB, we don't KNOW.

Plus we have enough for the whole league, Poteat,Law,Barrett,Coleman ,Lowery.....trade them all for one guy.We tried Law, then Dyson, thirds a charm.

HERE SOME IDEAS:

SS

Nic Harris, SS, Oklahoma-a hard hitting punishing basstard 6'3 - 230 lbs.

Kevin Ellison, SS, USC- another hard hitter, great run support 6'1 225

WR

Darrius Heyward-Bey-Maryland- We wish, he's the guy. what a steal.

Percy Harvin- little Santana Moss guy

Actually a few good guys coming out.

I definitely agree that we need another safety to play alongside rhodes, but the common misconception is that we played a classic SS or FS scheme. We didn't and it remains to be seen what Rex will do with him.

Nic Harris has been playing OLB at the Senior bowl and that is currently what he is being looked at, definitely for a 43. Neither him or Ellison are first round potential, atleast in my opinion.

If we're gonna look safety it's gonna be someone like Moore, who looked aweful this year, Delmas, Chung or Johnson. All solid players.

I would rather go WR in the first, considering we have plenty of depth and later round guys, but no elite talent. We have the Cotcherys, Coles, clowney etc. but no real elite talent. Maclin would be ideal, but most likely won't drop to us and is probably gonna be a raider (if crab doesn't fall to the raiders instead). DHB is my favorite reciever that isn't Crab or Maclin, and I feel he has #1 WR talent, but might need a year or so development. Nicks is solid, but reminds me of cotchery. Britt is another solid player who I feel will be taken in the first round after the combine, but i dunno, 17 seems to early for him as of now.

Harvin is tricky, he is a top 10 talent when healthy, but well I just don't knwo about him. Speed kills and he has it in spades...I'm just not sure about him.

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Upgrade on Lowery is a luxary, and can be taken care of in free agency or later in the draft.

Unless the best player available is also a CB I can't see using a first rounder on a CB, ditto DT or OL....we go linebacker or offense, maybe DE if again, BPA is a DE. Since the Jets have a few areas that they need to upgrade but not one that is imperitive to address in the first round, they have the luxary of taking the BPA, because most likely that player will fill a need.

Actually a good spot to be in draft-wise.

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First question:

Why the hate on Lowery. This guy was a friggin 4th Rounder that stepped right in and played, oh and PLAYED WELL. (Ask Gholston what that's like)

He showed all the skills, then, like all rookies, many things happened. We know Mangini's conditioning succked becauce the whole team, starting with Jenkings on down collapsed after 11 games, maybe they were get ready for college.So the kid was not conditioned. He got NO calls cause he's a rook.

He lost his confidence. The CS again, we know,succked, so there were no adjustments, just "get out Rook, you got burnt"

He'll come back with Rex and play his a$$ off, he's got the tools, he proved it!!!

I'm saying, Id rather go WR or SS in the first, something we KNOW FOR sure we need!

We KNOW we have no downfield threat.

We KNOW we have no playmaking Safety helping Rhodes.

We MIGHT have a great #2 CB, we don't KNOW.

Plus we have enough for the whole league, Poteat,Law,Barrett,Coleman ,Lowery.....trade them all for one guy.We tried Law, then Dyson, thirds a charm.

HERE SOME IDEAS:

SS

Nic Harris, SS, Oklahoma-a hard hitting punishing basstard 6'3 - 230 lbs.

Kevin Ellison, SS, USC- another hard hitter, great run support 6'1 225

WR

Darrius Heyward-Bey-Maryland- We wish, he's the guy. what a steal.

Percy Harvin- little Santana Moss guy

Actually a few good guys coming out.

I totally agree. I think that Lowery is the first coming of Dwight Lowery...which will be such and impressive career.

The kid was never "burnt". Yes, he did get picked on but in the red zone his size is an issue. He has to learn how to play more physical which Rex will bring to the table. There were some plays that he got beat deep on, however, many of those plays It looked like they were either zone plays or he got beat on pattern plays which rookies tend to do.

However, there were many plays that this kid made that showed that he can certainly play this game and be competitive. I remember Chris Chambers getting a ball thrown to him deep and Lowery came out of nowhere and deflected the pass over his shoulder. Chris Chambers is f-ing tall and he had the steps on him. Lowery maintained and made the play

secondly, if the front 7 are not getting pressure on the QB do people NOT expect for WR's to get open? there was no pressure AT ALL on QB's in the second half of the season. That also would hurt a Rookie Qb. Sh!t, even Revis felt the pressure. The first half of the season you couldnt even throw to his side, the second half it seemed like everyone of the field was open because the QB got 15 minutes in the pocket.

This kid isnt a starter now...but in a year, maybe two I could see him being across the field every week.

Now, on to the draft. We need a WR for the first Draft. This seems to be a very talented Draft for WRs and this we're not going to get this low a pick IMO because Im expecting some playoffs quite often. We need to get this Offense right. Rex brings out the best in defensive players. Simply changing the coach made our defense 10 times better. we need to compliment it with a high scoring offense.

Brett Ratliff for President (or team captain)!

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I think the Jets are trading up......I know they like to get quality over quantity...at least how they categorize quality...so I would be very surprised if they didn't lose a few picks and move around a bit.

With the cap situation the way it is, it would make sense for them to draft fewer players as well.

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My basic take on this offseason/draft is that we need a playmaker on offense, plain and simple. That's what i feel is the biggest key missing on our team.

I think with our first rounder we can forgot pass rush, considering that for the vast majority of our season we were one of the, if not the lague leader in sacks. Although the Raven's didn't get as many sacks as us, RR's 34 scheme is more aggresive than Mangini's. I personally feel Gholston will contribute, so I'm not too worried about the pass rush as long as we can keep it up for 16 games and not just 11.

I do not like ILB for us. Yes we do need one, but ILB in the 34 is not a glory position and one that you usually spend a 1st and a 2nd rounder on. This is usually because the skills needs to excell in the 34 do not necessitate a first rounder...although, if Rey Rey is BPA and there isn't a WR worth taking than by all means, i'm ok with it.

Our secondary is shaping up, Lowery is probably best as a slot CB, we just need another edge guy.

The one thing we truly lack is a WR who can impact the defensive gameplan. Yes, we have leon, but he doesn't roll coverages. He doesn't force the hand of the DC to roll a safety over the top and create better matchups for the rest of the team.

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He was exposed as being too slow to be a number 2 corner.

He's got a position on this team for sure, but any #2 WR with a modicum of speed has/will crush him.

I thought he played very well for a rookie. He was a 4th rounder that we really didn't expect a whole lot from last year.

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The kid was never "burnt". Yes, he did get picked on but in the red zone his size is an issue. He has to learn how to play more physical which Rex will bring to the table. There were some plays that he got beat deep on, however, many of those plays It looked like they were either zone plays or he got beat on pattern plays which rookies tend to do.

Brett Ratliff for President (or team captain)!

exactly. Plus, when are cornerbacks not small, Aaron Glenn was a midget, so was mickens, they all are, they need to follow the recievers waist, if you play PG in basketball and have a 5'9" guy guarding you, your day is gonna suck. and getting burnt in the endzone is something ALL CB's do(remember the fake spike lol), he also got ZERO calls cuz he's a rook.

He showed us the day he started as a Rookie, he's got it, then again when he never went away, even when they sent Justin Miller packing.

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Lowery had a solid Preseason and Week 1 and then went absolutely down hill and fast. He was brutal for 10+ games.

He is what everyone thought he was back when we drafted him: A CB/S tweener who isn't going to find a starting job in the NFL, but will be an excellent depth player/Special Teams contributor.

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Lowery had a solid Preseason and Week 1 and then went absolutely down hill and fast. He was brutal for 10+ games.

He is what everyone thought he was back when we drafted him: A CB/S tweener who isn't going to find a starting job in the NFL, but will be an excellent depth player/Special Teams contributor.

He's playing next to a shut down Pro bowler which is why he's getting oicked on, which is also why he has way more tackles solo and assists and the exact amount of passes defensed. It's also why he's been thrown to almost all game and still, after those 11 games you mentioned we were 8-3, the rising stars of the league, EVERY PASS against us was going to Lowery and we had a pretty nice defense. You don't do that with a scrub.

He got burnt=Who wouldn't? He handled every pass, got no calls because of his rookie status, unlike Ty Law who gets all the calls and still SUXX.He also made plays. Or we wouldn't be 8-3.

He's small= and?

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I totally agree. I think that Lowery is the first coming of Dwight Lowery...which will be such and impressive career.

The kid was never "burnt". Yes, he did get picked on but in the red zone his size is an issue. He has to learn how to play more physical which Rex will bring to the table. There were some plays that he got beat deep on, however, many of those plays It looked like they were either zone plays or he got beat on pattern plays which rookies tend to do.

However, there were many plays that this kid made that showed that he can certainly play this game and be competitive. I remember Chris Chambers getting a ball thrown to him deep and Lowery came out of nowhere and deflected the pass over his shoulder. Chris Chambers is f-ing tall and he had the steps on him. Lowery maintained and made the play

secondly, if the front 7 are not getting pressure on the QB do people NOT expect for WR's to get open? there was no pressure AT ALL on QB's in the second half of the season. That also would hurt a Rookie Qb. Sh!t, even Revis felt the pressure. The first half of the season you couldnt even throw to his side, the second half it seemed like everyone of the field was open because the QB got 15 minutes in the pocket.

This kid isnt a starter now...but in a year, maybe two I could see him being across the field every week.

Nice to see that some people pay attention to the details and circumstances of what they watch instead of the angry mob "he sucks" mentality.

Lowery will be fine.

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I thought he played very well for a rookie. He was a 4th rounder that we really didn't expect a whole lot from last year.

His problems were in physical ability. Not in technique. You don't develop the tools, you develop the ability to use them properly.

Lowery was victimized, and will continue to be because he's simply not fast enough to keep up with some of the leagues WRs.

Last time this was discussed, I posted some 40 times, which are not the end-all-be-all, but Lowery was about .1 faster than our LBs. He's a nice player, with good instincts, who would should have a spot on the roster, but we need better.

I'm not saying we need to draft a CB in round 1, but an upgrade across from Revis is an absolute must.

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First question:

Why the hate on Lowery. This guy was a friggin 4th Rounder that stepped right in and played, oh and PLAYED WELL. (Ask Gholston what that's like)

Just because Gholston didn't play doesn't mean Lowery played WELL simply because he was on the field. Fact is, he was burnt religiously, which forced the defense to compensate, which made it struggle.

Last thing Lowery did last year was play well.

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I think Dwight can be a career nickel guy...which is extremely important and if he can do that for us...thats a hell of a 4th round pick...kind of like a Mickens.

We need another #2. Personally, I think WR, CB is what we should target in the draft and find a ILB in FA.

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Just because Gholston didn't play doesn't mean Lowery played WELL simply because he was on the field. Fact is, he was burnt religiously, which forced the defense to compensate, which made it struggle.

Last thing Lowery did last year was play well.

First impressions man.

People remember the Miami game, and little else.

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Nice to see that some people pay attention to the details and circumstances of what they watch instead of the angry mob "he sucks" mentality.

Lowery will be fine.

let's face it Mangini gave up on every single 2008 draft pick-he did it to Lowery by bringing in Law, he gave up on Gholston who SHOULD have been playing after Thomas took half the season off (again) he could have used that time to develop VG. He put Keller, Favre's best and most reliable weapon in the doghouse and took him out of the game plans-Marcus Henry spent the whole year on the PS, Clowney was hurt and when he got healthy never saw the field even after Coles mailed it in. Ainge? He never even whiffed the field-who am I missing? Screw mangini, I want to see Ryan USE these young assets.

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let's face it Mangini gave up on every single 2008 draft pick-he did it to Lowery by bringing in Law, he gave up on Gholston who SHOULD have been playing after Thomas took half the season off (again) he could have used that time to develop VG. He put Keller, Favre's best and most reliable weapon in the doghouse and took him out of the game plans-Marcus Henry spent the whole year on the PS, Clowney was hurt and when he got healthy never saw the field even after Coles mailed it in. Ainge? He never even whiffed the field-who am I missing? Screw mangini, I want to see Ryan USE these young assets.

He did put Clowney in that one game late in the season and the kid made a great one handed catch. Mangini must have got mad at him for showing off :rolleyes:, because we did not see Clowney again.

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He did put Clowney in that one game late in the season and the kid made a great one handed catch. Mangini must have got mad at him for showing off :rolleyes:, because we did not see Clowney again.

I'm no psychiatrist but I think Mangini took to bullying his rookie class. Maybe it had something to do with having Favre shoved down his throat when he didn't want him, who knows. All I know is what i saw and what I saw was a HC that didn't properly utilize and stick with his rookie class. The Vernon Gholston statements made it clear to me how important it is to NOT have him be a bust-which he was well on his way to becoming under Mangini's leadership-or lack thereof...

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It's nothing against Lowery.

After Revis there is no good depth at corner on this team. Who knows what Law has left or if he will still be with us.

There is a lot of talent at CB in this draft and to get someone opposite Revis is a definite possibility in RD 1.

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He did put Clowney in that one game late in the season and the kid made a great one handed catch. Mangini must have got mad at him for showing off :rolleyes:, because we did not see Clowney again.

Ratliff/Clowney was the best looking tandem all year, counting any kind of game that was televised: scrimmages, preseason. Just on raw football watching. Watching Ratliff throw to Clowney was the most fun..........besides Favre's 6 TD's. lol

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It's nothing against Lowery.

After Revis there is no good depth at corner on this team. Who knows what Law has left or if he will still be with us.

There is a lot of talent at CB in this draft and to get someone opposite Revis is a definite possibility in RD 1.

Screw Law, he sucked when we tried his crap TWO YEARS AGO, and we let Miller go for him, that blows my friggin mind.LOL

I think Lowery and Poteat are the best two we got, but we need much more help at SS.

Basically Lowery/Poteat>>>>>>>>Elam/Smith. Who knows, we go with a good SS( a la Victor Green) and Rhodes may reappear.

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Screw Law, he sucked when we tried his crap TWO YEARS AGO, and we let Miller go for him, that blows my friggin mind.LOL

I think Lowery and Poteat are the best two we got, but we need much more help at SS.

Basically Lowery/Poteat>>>>>>>>Elam/Smith. Who knows, we go with a good SS( a la Victor Green) and Rhodes may reappear.

See, this is a wholly different tune than at least the first half of your original post.

Saying that SS is a bigger problem and #2 CB, is a far cry from saying Lowery/Poteat means were set at CB.

Further, it's arguably more important to have high round talent at the #2 CB position than it is at the SS position.

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