ECURB Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Why is this such a big deal? I mean... I know the media is blowing it way out of proportion... but why is MLB having so much trouble sweeping this under the rug like the other sports leagues do? Steroids do not create a superstar athlete... if I took the same Steroids ARod took I would not be hitting HR's out of the park... Not to mention we act like he broke those records playing against clean pitchers... and we know thats not the case... it was actually quite fair... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Why is this such a big deal? I mean... I know the media is blowing it way out of proportion... but why is MLB having so much trouble sweeping this under the rug like the other sports leagues do? Steroids do not create a superstar athlete... if I took the same Steroids ARod took I would not be hitting HR's out of the park... Not to mention we act like he broke those records playing against clean pitchers... and we know thats not the case... it was actually quite fair... There is your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 why is MLB having so much trouble sweeping this under the rug like the other sports leagues do? It's really quite simple... baseball, far more than any other sport, is about its records. Steroids precipitated its two most hallowed records being broken - one of them having been bested 6 times in the last 10 years after standing for 37 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 It's really quite simple... baseball, far more than any other sport, is about its records. Steroids precipitated its two most hallowed records being broken - one of them having been bested 6 times in the last 10 years after standing for 37 years. Exactly. Records in baseball are much more important, or at least much more recognizable than in any other sport. Who has the record for the most points in the NBA and how many does he have? Rushing yards in football? I'd guess not many people here could say exactly without looking it up. Compared to how many could name the top records in baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 It's really quite simple... baseball, far more than any other sport, is about its records. Steroids precipitated its two most hallowed records being broken - one of them having been bested 6 times in the last 10 years after standing for 37 years. Who's to say Maris wasnt on something? Look at his career numbers then his 61 season, he had more of a jump than Barry did when he hit 73. Or at least around the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Why is this such a big deal? I mean... I know the media is blowing it way out of proportion... but why is MLB having so much trouble sweeping this under the rug like the other sports leagues do? Steroids do not create a superstar athlete... if I took the same Steroids ARod took I would not be hitting HR's out of the park... Not to mention we act like he broke those records playing against clean pitchers... and we know thats not the case... it was actually quite fair... Its blown out of proportion because people tune in and watch the reports. If the fans really didnt care about it, they wouldnt watch the news reports, the sportscenter featuring Arod, listen to sports radio bitching about it, and reading about it. Im sure ESPN got great ratings because of their interview. Media is driven by eyeballs. Enough eyeballs make it worthwhile to blow out of proportion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 ECURB is really on to something here. Why bother even keeping score anymore? Do we need umpires? Does a foul ball ALWAYS have to be foul? If it is hit real hard, we can we give it a "good intention" score? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 Exactly. Records in baseball are much more important, or at least much more recognizable than in any other sport. Who has the record for the most points in the NBA and how many does he have? Rushing yards in football? I'd guess not many people here could say exactly without looking it up. Compared to how many could name the top records in baseball. I am going to guess Wilt has the most points in the NBA... Im not sure about rushing yards... ECURB is really on to something here. Why bother even keeping score anymore? Do we need umpires? Does a foul ball ALWAYS have to be foul? If it is hit real hard, we can we give it a "good intention" score? That makes no sense and was not my point at all... my point is that Arod would have been a great player who would have a very good chance at breaking the record without the drugs... the roids did not make him great... he was great to begin with.. Your all out of your mind if you think that this is the first time baseball players have cheated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 [quote=ECURB;1168860 my point is that Arod would have been a great player who would have a very good chance at breaking the record without the drugs... the roids did not make him great... he was great to begin with.. We don't KNOW these things, so don't pretend that you do. How do you know what effect the ENHANCEMENT drugs had on his career? if he was so great to begin with, why the urge to cheat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 We don't KNOW these things, so don't pretend that you do. How do you know what effect the ENHANCEMENT drugs had on his career? if he was so great to begin with, why the urge to cheat? Yeah your right... he would have sucked... lol My other point is that people act like this was a sudden thing and pro baseball was super clean prior to it... just because there wasnt testing... players have been taking things they shouldnt to get an advantage and using things they shouldnt since baseball began... should we go back and figure out how many players from the 50's that broke records used something they shouldnt have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Yeah your right... he would have sucked... lol My other point is that people act like this was a sudden thing and pro baseball was super clean prior to it... just because there wasnt testing... players have been taking things they shouldnt to get an advantage and using things they shouldnt since baseball began... should we go back and figure out how many players from the 50's that broke records used something they shouldnt have? What were performance enhancers back then ECURB, please do tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 What were performance enhancers back then ECURB, please do tell. You dont think people took things? Even if they didnt... you dont think they used other methods? (corking bats etc) Dont be so naive... this wasnt a perfect ****ing world and then along came big bad steroids... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 You dont think people took things? Even if they didnt... you dont think they used other methods? (corking bats etc) Dont be so naive... this wasnt a perfect ****ing world and then along came big bad steroids... So your premise is that, because a small miority may get away with some things, we should just not outlaw anything, and let the mob rule? Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 So your premise is that, because a small miority may get away with some things, we should just not outlaw anything, and let the mob rule? Brilliant. Not at all, if you catch somebody you punish them with the rules that are on the book. Isnt that was this is all about? Playing within the rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Whether players cheated in the past or not has no bearing on this situation or change this. Players who cheated were dealt with. Arod is getting nothing more than being ridiculed in public. He cheated and got away with it, outside of his reputation being ruined. And for a guy who supposedly had these great talents to begin with and would have been a great player without.... he deserves everything he gets. He didnt need to and he still cheated. It doesnt get worse than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Not at all, if you catch somebody you punish them with the rules that are on the book. Isnt that was this is all about? Playing within the rules? Not sure if we are to understand your point then., What are you trying to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 Whether players cheated in the past or not has no bearing on this situation or change this. Players who cheated were dealt with. Arod is getting nothing more than being ridiculed in public. He cheated and got away with it, outside of his reputation being ruined. And for a guy who supposedly had these great talents to begin with and would have been a great player without.... he deserves everything he gets. He didnt need to and he still cheated. It doesnt get worse than that. Not sure if we are to understand your point then., What are you trying to say? My point is that Arod played within the rules that the MLB wanted him to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Not sure if we are to understand your point then., What are you trying to say? Here is what I understand: Steroids were widespread in baseball in the early 2000's.. over 100 players tested positive. We shouldnt be upset about this since it wasnt a few players who were possibly gaining an advantage. Whatever advantage players received should have been offset by pitchers juicing up. We should however be more upset at corking bats, spitballs, scuffing baseballs, since those are just a small handful of players doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 My point is that Arod played within the rules that the MLB wanted him to. That is possibly the dumbest thing Ive read today. ARod cheated for his benefit. MLB was turning a blind eye to the issue, but it doesnt change the fact he and over 100 other players cheated for their own benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 Here is what I understand: Steroids were widespread in baseball in the early 2000's.. over 100 players tested positive. We shouldnt be upset about this since it wasnt a few players who were possibly gaining an advantage. Whatever advantage players received should have been offset by pitchers juicing up. We should however be more upset at corking bats, spitballs, scuffing baseballs, since those are just a small handful of players doing it. We should not be upset at any of them... it is a part of the game... always has been ... always will be... if your not cheating your nto trying... that has been the moto in pro sports for a freakin century... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 My point is that Arod played within the rules that the MLB wanted him to. No one is disputing that. But, A-Rod has also been hailed as the "best" player in baseball, as well he made sure that he was awarded the contract commesurate with that supposed status. Given all of that, once you have been found to be "dirty", and done so after you have expclicitly said you have never done any of those types of activities, this becomes a big story. You honestly are surprised by that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 We should not be upset at any of them... it is a part of the game... always has been ... always will be... if your not cheating your nto trying... that has been the moto in pro sports for a freakin century... And when you get caught you face the consequences.... If there is no outrage and there is no consequence, as you seem to be suggesting, then everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 We should not be upset at any of them... it is a part of the game... always has been ... always will be... if your not cheating your nto trying... that has been the moto in pro sports for a freakin century... oh brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 That is possibly the dumbest thing Ive read today. ARod cheated for his benefit. MLB was turning a blind eye to the issue, but it doesnt change the fact he and over 100 other players cheated for their own benefit. You are being naive if you think it was only a hundred players or so... lets just face the fact that Jose Conseco has been right all along and lets assume he is also right about it being at least 75%... Most starting players in baseball were using at one point in some form... to think otherwise is just silly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 oh brother. Or we could live in your dream world where all of the records are sacred and broken by wonderful people who would never think of cheating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Or we could live in your dream world where all of the records are sacred and broken by wonderful people who would never think of cheating... Once again, we are left wondering what your point is. I am thinking that may be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 You are being naive if you think it was only a hundred players or so... lets just face the fact that Jose Conseco has been right all along and lets assume he is also right about it being at least 75%... Most starting players in baseball were using at one point in some form... to think otherwise is just silly... I dont know how many there were nor do I care. What I do care about is the players who were cheated be exposed for the cheaters they are. Its not the number that matters. If someone gets caught cheating they deserve the shame and ridicule and punishment that goes with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Once again, we are left wondering what your point is. I am thinking that may be a good thing. I think what he's trying to say is that the outrage over steroid use is more of a media fabrication than anything. The game is at an all time high. This will have zero affect on attendance. The only thing that could negatively hurt baseball at this point is no games at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Who's to say Maris wasnt on something? Look at his career numbers then his 61 season, he had more of a jump than Barry did when he hit 73. Or at least around the same. There's several factors there to explain the success of Maris in 1961 (versus 1960)... 1. They increased the season from 154 to 162 games. 2. The league expanded, adding 2 teams to the AL for the '61 season, watering down the pitching pool league-wide. Essentially, 20% of the pitchers in the AL in 1961 wouldn't have been in the majors the year before. 3. Batting in front Mantle for almost the entire season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I dont know how many there were nor do I care. What I do care about is the players who were cheated be exposed for the cheaters they are. Its not the number that matters. If someone gets caught cheating they deserve the shame and ridicule and punishment that goes with it. The Player's Union, who have protected these players to a veal type existence, has brought the shame upon this 104 players. The reluctance of the Union to admit abuses, to even allow any type of testing to be conducted, and then BLEW IT by not having the test results be destroyed, did a real disservice to teh group they were supposed to be protecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 There's several factors there to explain the success of Maris in 1961 (versus 1960)... 1. They increased the season from 154 to 162 games. 2. The league expanded, adding 2 teams to the AL for the '61 season, watering down the pitching pool league-wide. Essentially, 20% of the pitchers in the AL in 1961 wouldn't have been in the majors the year before. 3. Batting in front Mantle for almost the entire season That's pretty weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 I think what he's trying to say is that the outrage over steroid use is more of a media fabrication than anything. The game is at an all time high. This will have zero affect on attendance. The only thing that could negatively hurt baseball at this point is no games at all. Pretty much... its the media feeding off an older crowd that thinks the records are sacred... while most of America does not care and just wants to see some baseball... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Or we could live in your dream world where all of the records are sacred and broken by wonderful people who would never think of cheating... No. We live in a world where people are innocent until proved to be lying cheating scumbags. Wheter Aaron, Mantle, Maris or any other player from these days cheated doesnt matter. We have no proof they did and to assume they did cheat is ridiculous and completely unfair. You seem to not want to single out players caught cheating. And that is unfair to the honest player. Does it mean some players get away with it? Yeah. But thats part of what you deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I think what he's trying to say is that the outrage over steroid use is more of a media fabrication than anything. The game is at an all time high. This will have zero affect on attendance. The only thing that could negatively hurt baseball at this point is no games at all. The media fabricated no story here. The facts have been reaffirmed by the guilty party himself. When you are "the best player in baseball" this is the fervor that follows the story. Particularly when your own union and players have said that the "steroids story" is overblown. Oooops. Check Jetnation baseball forum. Look at what the fans are talking about. T The media drove us to discuss this? Are you really that sheepish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 That's pretty weak. It actually has a basis of truth and fact. More than you have presented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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