LiveMike Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I don't like copying and pasting, but the Hartwell excuse is extremely annoying. Well it's impossible to predict whether or not a player will become injury plagued, except going by his history. Bart Scott has missed 3 games in his 7 years, which leads me to believe he'll see the field, however, Hartwell never missed a game in his 4 years with Baltimore than missed 17 games over the course of two years with ATL. Him staying healthy cannot be attributed to Ray Lewis playing next to him, but just bad luck. If he were healthy and didn't perform than I would say you're right, but it's just a silly comparison. As for another linebacker usually used in this excuse, Jamie Sharper. Sharper saw his best years after he left lewis, which leads one to beleive that Lewis probably took the lions' share of the attention and tackles etc. Year - Team - Games - Tot - Solo - Ast - PD - SACK - FF - REC - INT - YDS 1997 - Bal ------16----------65----51-----14 ---2------ 3 -----1----- 0------ 1-----4 1998 - Bal ------16----------54----45-----9 -----3------ 1 -----0----- 0------ 0-----0 1999 - Bal-------16----------87----70-----17----2------ 4 -----1----- 0------ 0-----0 2000 - Bal-------16---------67----54-----13----4------0-----1---- 0------ 1-----45 2001 - Bal-------16-------108---77-----31---10------6 -----1----- 0------ 0-----0 2002 -Hou----16-----135--95----40---9-----5.5 --1-----0-----0-----0 2003 - Hou---16-----164--105---59---3---- 4 ----1---- 0------ 0-----0 2004 - Hou---16-----137---96---41---6----- 2 ----1----0------ 0-----0 2005 - Sea------8---------37----28-----9----0-------0 -----1----- 0------ 0-----0 That having been said, there is no insurance that he'll be a stud, but he's played at a high level for a long time and i see no reason why he'd stop. Jamie sharper didn't stop and I don't anticipate Bart Scott stopping. Also, it should be noted that the first year Scott got significant playing time was the 2005, the year Ray missed 10 games. In Scott's first year starting he recorded 92 total tackles, 4 sacks and 2 forced fumbles. The next year, with Ray playing the full season, he registered 103 tackles to go with 9.5 sacks. I'm not saying Scott (or Hartwell) are bad players, but they absolutely benefitted from playing next to Ray Lewis. Hartwell didn't really get a chance to earn his salary in ATL, but nonetheless, he didn't earn the money. The stats you pulled up prove my point. 92 tackles, 4 sacks are solid numbers. They're very similar to EVERY starting ILB in the NFL. That's what ILBs do. They get a bunch of tackles and have big plays sprinkled in. Do you think it's any coincidence that his stats got better when Ray returned? I wouldn't be upset if the Jets signed Scott, but I think we could find a player like that -- a role player -- for a lot less money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 LOL at your ignorance. How many B'More games have YOU actually watched? Bart Scott is a nice player, but he's obviously the second class citizen on that defense. Ray, Suggs, Reed, Nagta, and Pryce allow Bart to make plays...not the other way around. Scott and Leonhard are the result of being surrounded by exceptional players. If either one of them come to the Jets, we'll have overpaid for somebody else's role players. NFL teams who achieve success draft those players, not sign them for big bucks in free agency. Championship teams are built through consistent, solid drafts with the occasional stud signing. When you start signing average players for stud money, you're going to be an average team. I watched 13 Baltimore games last season. A good few in seasons before. Second class citizen? Laughable to say the least. He's an elite defender who's VERY good at every aspect of his game. When he blitzes, he gets pressure or causes pressure, he's very good in coverage AND there's very few better LB's in the league against the run if any at all. It's very ignorant to assume that he's a system player. He's not. If you watched him you can see his talent, it's obvious. To call him average is absolutely unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveMike Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I watched 13 Baltimore games last season. A good few in seasons before. Second class citizen? Laughable to say the least. He's an elite defender who's VERY good at every aspect of his game. When he blitzes, he gets pressure or causes pressure, he's very good in coverage AND there's very few better LB's in the league against the run if any at all. It's very ignorant to assume that he's a system player. He's not. If you watched him you can see his talent, it's obvious. To call him average is absolutely unbelievable. You remembered exactly how many Baltimore Raven games you watched last year? Impressive. Elite? OK, this conversation is going nowhere. He IS a system guy who has the privlege of playing behind a beast of a line and next to one of the greatest ILBs in NFL history. If you can't see that, there's nothing more to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 You remembered exactly how many Baltimore Raven games you watched last year? Impressive. Elite? OK, this conversation is going nowhere. He IS a system guy who has the privlege of playing behind a beast of a line and next to one of the greatest ILBs in NFL history. If you can't see that, there's nothing more to say. I absolutely guarantee that the team Scott signs for will improve significantly on defense and that he'll be a major part of it. Playing next to Ray Lewis helps, but stop talking as if Ray Lewis is 28 years old. He's not playing at the "greatst ILB in NFL history" level that he used to. He's not a system guy and if/when he leaves Baltimore you'll see that. He IS an elite defensive player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveMike Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I absolutely guarantee that the team Scott signs for will improve significantly on defense and that he'll be a major part of it. Playing next to Ray Lewis helps, but stop talking as if Ray Lewis is 28 years old. He's not playing at the "greatst ILB in NFL history" level that he used to. He's not a system guy and if/when he leaves Baltimore you'll see that. He IS an elite defensive player. I really don't care about your guarantee, it's an empty promise with absolutely no basis of fact. Could he leave Baltimore and become a team leader and star of a top ranked defense, I guess. It's very unlikely, mainly because it appears that he's going to resign in Baltimore where he knows his bread is buttered. If these reports of him resigning in Bal are true, why wouldn't he want to test the market? Think about it...if he was such an 'elite' player, why wouldn't he enter free agency and seek a contract that reflects his 'elite' ability? The answer to that is very clear. His agent or whomever advises his career told him to take what he can get and not test the open market. If he was the beast you say he is, wouldn't there be buzz about all the teams who wish they had him? Real GMs are the opinions I care about, not yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Jet Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I absolutely guarantee that the team Scott signs for will improve significantly on defense and that he'll be a major part of it. Playing next to Ray Lewis helps, but stop talking as if Ray Lewis is 28 years old. He's not playing at the "greatst ILB in NFL history" level that he used to. Yes I think some people have forgotten the fact that ray lewis has already "peaked" as a player and is heading South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWillie Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I really don't care about your guarantee, it's an empty promise with absolutely no basis of fact. Could he leave Baltimore and become a team leader and star of a top ranked defense, I guess. It's very unlikely, mainly because it appears that he's going to resign in Baltimore where he knows his bread is buttered. If these reports of him resigning in Bal are true, why wouldn't he want to test the market? Think about it...if he was such an 'elite' player, why wouldn't he enter free agency and seek a contract that reflects his 'elite' ability? The answer to that is very clear. His agent or whomever advises his career told him to take what he can get and not test the open market. If he was the beast you say he is, wouldn't there be buzz about all the teams who wish they had him? Real GMs are the opinions I care about, not yours. From what I understand there are at least 3 or 4 teams seriously interested in Scott, including the Jets and the Giants. I personally think the "Baltimore is close to a deal" talk is an exaggeration for the very reason you imply which is Scott potentially walking away from a big payday from someone else. Why would he do that? And if he's so concerned with staying with Lewis, why would he sign so soon knowing that Lewis might leave anyway. Doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'm wrong. We'll see within a few days, maybe sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveMike Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 From what I understand there are at least 3 or 4 teams seriously interested in Scott, including the Jets and the Giants. I personally think the "Baltimore is close to a deal" talk is an exaggeration for the very reason you imply which is Scott potentially walking away from a big payday from someone else. Why would he do that? And if he's so concerned with staying with Lewis, why would he sign so soon knowing that Lewis might leave anyway. Doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'm wrong. We'll see within a few days, maybe sooner. You're right, we're going to find out how coveted Scott really is in the coming days/weeks. Obviouslty the Jets are interested because coaches always like to bring in their guys. I just hope the Jets aren't going into a bidding war with Baltimore because Rex wants his guy. I don't think Scott is concerned about staying with Ray. One of them is gone, and most likely coming here. I just hope we don't get the wrong guy. Personally, I'd rather draft a ILB early and let both Ray and Scott go elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWillie Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 You're right, we're going to find out how coveted Scott really is in the coming days/weeks. Obviouslty the Jets are interested because coaches always like to bring in their guys. I just hope the Jets aren't going into a bidding war with Baltimore because Rex wants his guy. I don't think Scott is concerned about staying with Ray. One of them is gone, and most likely coming here. I just hope we don't get the wrong guy. Personally, I'd rather draft a ILB early and let both Ray and Scott go elsewhere. Draft an ILB early and sign maybe a Leonhard or Wilson to play SS? What do we do for a corner? You think we have a #2 guy on the roster or do we draft a corner as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveMike Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Draft an ILB early and sign maybe a Leonhard or Wilson to play SS? What do we do for a corner? You think we have a #2 guy on the roster or do we draft a corner as well? We have to sign a CB and maybe draft one too since Barrett is gone and Coleman is worthless, which is why I'm so against signing a LB. It's easier to find a quality LB in the draft than it is to find a starting CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed3 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Scott was an undrafted free agent. Rex Ryan MADE him. He is indebted to him for that. Now he can become the indisputed leader of his coach's new team and get his money. cut and dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWillie Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 We have to sign a CB and maybe draft one too since Barrett is gone and Coleman is worthless, which is why I'm so against signing a LB. It's easier to find a quality LB in the draft than it is to find a starting CB. I think we're all in agreement that we need the same pieces on defense (ILB, CB, SS). The question is what's the best way to get the right players for the best value. You make a good point. It might be easier to draft a LB then a corner who can step in. I also believe getting a good SS for his system so they can move Rhodes is critical. I think they have a plan. It'll be interesting to see how they approach it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveMike Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I think we're all in agreement that we need the same pieces on defense (ILB, CB, SS). The question is what's the best way to get the right players for the best value. You make a good point. It might be easier to draft a LB then a corner who can step in. I also believe getting a good SS for his system so they can move Rhodes is critical. I think they have a plan. It'll be interesting to see how they approach it. CBs are a funny bunch. It's hard to project how one will make the transition from covering scrub college WRs with crap QBs to covering a Welker-Brady combo or a Rivers-Chambers combo every week. I'm excited to see what this team looks like going into the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Jet Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 CBs are a funny bunch. It's hard to project how one will make the transition from covering scrub college WRs with crap QBs to covering a Welker-Brady combo or a Rivers-Chambers combo every week. I'm excited to see what this team looks like going into the draft. All the fun starts at midnight on Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 All the fun starts at midnight on Friday. I seriously can't wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Jet Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I seriously can't wait. I'm with ya Eman. Just so many possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Well, it's Thursday, how "close" are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rillo Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Well, it's Thursday, how "close" are they? I'm sure we'll get some news this evening...11:59pm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache 51 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 we were never going to get their young lb, maybe we can get their proven star, i know he is older 34....but he could be very useful in many ways for a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 we were never going to get their young lb, maybe we can get their proven star, i know he is older 34....but he could be very useful in many ways for a few years. until i see a headline that says the ravens have re-signed scott....i still give the jets a good chance to sign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache 51 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 until i see a headline that says the ravens have re-signed scott....i still give the jets a good chance to sign him. that goes without saying...my comment was in line with the current speculative talk:Trk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 that goes without saying...my comment was in line with the current speculative talk:Trk: ok...but you made a pretty definite statement saying that we never had a chance4 at getting him anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache 51 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 ok...but you made a pretty definite statement saying that we never had a chance4 at getting him anyway. would you let him go??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 we were never going to get their young lb, maybe we can get their proven star, i know he is older 34....but he could be very useful in many ways for a few years. The biggest beneficiary of Ray Lewis' next contract will be Ray Lewis. He will not be worth what he's paid - especially to any team other than the Ravens. You can't import leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Also, Tannenbaum can contact Scott's agent before 12:01 under the rules. He can't make him an offer (they do it anyway), but he can tell him, "Don't sign with Baltimore until you talk to me." A smart agent will hold off from re-signing in this situation so close to UFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache 51 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 The biggest beneficiary of Ray Lewis' next contract will be Ray Lewis. He will not be worth what he's paid - especially to any team other than the Ravens. You can't import leadership. i believe you wrong on both accounts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 would you let him go??? depends. they have 3 lb'ers to re-sign. and i'm not sure what their needs are and what other, if any, players they need to re-sign. i can't imagine them paying big money to 3 lb'ers in any case though. suggs is gonna get alot.....not sure what the guarantee is for a franchised olb but it can't be cheap. lewis and scott are also gonna get alot. so i guess they have to decide what they need and what want to do. they might not have a choice. but i can't imagine what the benefit would be to scott at this point, if he signed an extension with blatimore so close to seeing what he can get on the open market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache 51 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 you never get rid of valuable lbs in this d if you can afford it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 The Ravens didn't sign Scott yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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