RutgersJetFan Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Trading two picks for a terrible player who we're hoping will suddenly become good doesn't involve a lot of risk? If he doesn't regain his old form, we lose two fifth (or a fourth next year?) rounders. That involves about as much risk as wiping only once due to the fact that you're in a hurry. It might cause some minor discomfort, but you're not doing any real damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I think you guys are exaggerating on Lito a bit here. He is not the player he was 3/4 years ago, but I dont think its because he forgot how to play and he definitely doesnt suck. He is a bad situation with an organization that doesnt like him. He might need a fresh start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I thought Tannenbaum got hosed in his "future pick" deals a/w DRob and Vilma. DRob is somewhat understandable, but we really should've done better on Vilma. The way the Saints skated around that clause was embarrassing. So I guess I'm just hoping he learned something from those two deals, and we don't wind up with the short end of another future consideration trade. I really can't agree with you on Vilma. The clause regarding the 2009 draft pick in the Vilma deal was probably a deal breaker for NO had it not been set up the way it was. As it stands, because of Vilma's playing time, the Jets move from pick 4.18 to 3.12 this year, moving up 38 draft picks. Had Vilma had one of those earth shattering spectacular seasons, one after which NO felt they couldn't risk losing Vilma in free agency, then, and only then, would that 2009 swap escalate to a 2nd rounder. Had Vilma had such a season, then no doubt it would have happened. As it turned out, Vilma had a very good season, but nothing that would make him a super hot FA commodity. So of course, as Tanny knew the Saints were not going to sign him before the FA period begun. They felt little risk that another team would swoop in for the "mighty" Vilma and snatch him. People on Jets message boards all over are arguing that Tanny got hosed or blundered... but I don't think that's the case at all. The clause was merely insurance for the Jets in the event Vilma played to superstar quality level, which he did not. He had a solid, very good season. I'll take the move up of 38 slots gladly and with a smile. No surprises here and exactly what the Jets knew they were getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 You seem confused. Nobody got hosed. What Vilma is worth to them is irrelevant. We knew - most of us, anyway - that the only way the pick was getting upped to a second was if Vilma had played so well that the Saints could not let him hit free agency. They did in fact let him hit free agency. The end. Bingo. Not sure why others don't understand that this was a negotiated facet of the deal and the sole purpose for the clause. Without it, I have no doubt there would have been no deal. Unfortunately for us, Vilma played well, but not well enough to make him the kind of player that other teams just had to pursue in FA. Had he done so, then N.O. would not have let him come close to sniffing the FA market. Hey, with Vilma's past health issues and inconsistent play, I am just thankful he played sufficiently to move us up 38 picks in day one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancemehl Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Read the whole post... it could cost up to a 2nd next year but AT LEAST a 4th.. on top of the 5th... I apologize ECURB,I had corrected you, I misunderstood what you were saying: at lowest a fourth, highest a 2nd in 2010 , i thought you meant a 4th and 5th this year i agree it's funny how the fourth round has become so valuable Revis and Sheppard!!!!!! Great deal!! I thought he was older. GREAT DEAL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancemehl Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I really can't agree with you on Vilma. The clause regarding the 2009 draft pick in the Vilma deal was probably a deal breaker for NO had it not been set up the way it was. As it stands, because of Vilma's playing time, the Jets move from pick 4.18 to 3.12 this year, moving up 38 draft picks. Had Vilma had one of those earth shattering spectacular seasons, one after which NO felt they couldn't risk losing Vilma in free agency, then, and only then, would that 2009 swap escalate to a 2nd rounder. Had Vilma had such a season, then no doubt it would have happened. As it turned out, Vilma had a very good season, but nothing that would make him a super hot FA commodity. So of course, as Tanny knew the Saints were not going to sign him before the FA period begun. They felt little risk that another team would swoop in for the "mighty" Vilma and snatch him. People on Jets message boards all over are arguing that Tanny got hosed or blundered... but I don't think that's the case at all. The clause was merely insurance for the Jets in the event Vilma played to superstar quality level, which he did not. He had a solid, very good season. I'll take the move up of 38 slots gladly and with a smile. No surprises here and exactly what the Jets knew they were getting. lol, great pic, i made a clockwork orange reference lately, that we should make someone watch tape like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMaynard Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I think you guys are exaggerating on Lito a bit here. He is not the player he was 3/4 years ago, but I dont think its because he forgot how to play and he definitely doesnt suck. He is a bad situation with an organization that doesnt like him. He might need a fresh start. There is no reason he can't be again. He is 27/28 and although he has had injury history, nothing serious that would have lingering effects. He is talented. He ran into a string of injuries, the Eagles got frustrated with him, and in turn he had an attitude with them. Hopefully, he does just need a fresh start. But the guy does have talent. I've watched the guy play a lot here in Philly. Jet fans will be pleased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetkid94 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 There is no reason he can't be again. He is 27/28 and although he has had injury history, nothing serious that would have lingering effects. He is talented. He ran into a string of injuries, the Eagles got frustrated with him, and in turn he had an attitude with them. Hopefully, he does just need a fresh start. But the guy does have talent. I've watched the guy play a lot here in Philly. Jet fans will be pleased. my uncle lives in philly and is a die-hard eagles fan. he texted me saying the jets robbed away from philly a very solid corner who can still be a lockdown type of player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drago Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 We're on a roll! Love this trade because, while we still may grab a DB with a high pick, we are not forced to go in that direction. At 27-28 Sheppard is still young enough to be a lockdown corner for years to come. Week 2 - 312 yards by Romo, 41 points given up Week 3 - 23 points given up to the Skins (only 176 through the air but come on, this the Jason Cmapbell for cryin out loud) Week 5 - 26 points, 199 yards to JT O'sullivan Week 10 - 36 points to the Giants, under 200 yards in the air Week 12 - 36 points to the Ravens, under 200 yards in the air I don't know, the eagles were so hit or miss last year but I am not ready to say Sheppard is a "lock down" CB. I hope i'm wrong but i'm not that thrilled with this pick up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnjet Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I assume this an error - talks about 2010 and 2011 picks. Sources: Sheppard to JetsComment Email Print Share By Len Pasquarelli ESPN.com Archive First, he was forced out of the starting lineup by the acquisition of high-profile free agent Asante Samuel last season. Now cornerback Lito Sheppard has been forced out of Philadelphia. The Eagles on Saturday are expected to complete a trade which will send Sheppard to the New York Jets for a package of draft picks. Sources from both clubs on Friday night confirmed the trade. Although details of the deal were not available, the Eagles are believed to be receiving a middle-round choice in the 2010 draft and conditional 2011 draft choice. The level of the 2011 choice will be determined by a number of factors including Sheppard's 2009 playing time. Sheppard, 27, is a two-time Pro Bowl defender. He started for much of his career, but was supplanted by Samuel in 2008. A seven-year veteran, Sheppard played mostly in nickel and dime situations for the Eagles last year. He started three games, the lowest number of starts since his second season. Sheppard, a first-round draft choice in 2002 draft, appeared in 93 games and started 53 of them. He has 253 tackles, two sacks, 18 interceptions, and 54 passes defensed. The recent re-signing of cornerback Joselio Hanson to a multi-year deal, made Sheppard expendable for the Eagles. Hanson received an increasing amount of playing time as the No. 3 cornerback as last season progressed. Sheppard is expected to step right into the starting lineup at the cornerback spot opposite the one occupied by Darrelle Revis. Len Pasquarelli is a senior writer for ESPN.com don't be so sure that it is a mistake. that is what espn said on the radio today as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Ty Law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I did read the entire post and I was merely being facetious. I personally don't feel a 5th and 4th for Shephard is that pricey, sounds like a pretty solid deal. Especially when you consider standard valuation rules - a draft pick next season is one round less valuable than one this season. At a minimum, the deal is the equivalent of 2 fifths, at a max, a 3rd and a 5th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 You seem confused. Nobody got hosed. What Vilma is worth to them is irrelevant. We knew - most of us, anyway - that the only way the pick was getting upped to a second was if Vilma had played so well that the Saints could not let him hit free agency. They did in fact let him hit free agency. The end. I still feel the same, and Gary Myers seems to agree: Saints pull a fast one The Jets and Giants have every right to be livid at the Saints. The Jets will receive a third-round pick from the Saints for Jonathan Vilma as part of the teams' trade a year ago. It would have been a second-round pick if he signed a contract extension before free agency started Friday. If he had signed before Friday, the second-round pick the Saints committed to the Giants for Jeremy Shockey would have gone to the Jets and the Saints would have compensated the Giants with their No. 1 pick in 2010. Vilma started all 16 games for the Saints and was their leading tackler. The Saints always wanted him back and Vilma wanted to be back, but there was no chance the Saints would sign him before Friday and lose their No. 1 pick. Clearly, they were not afraid of losing him on the open market. Or could it be they had a deal already arranged? Vilma signed a five-year, $34 million deal with the Saints on Friday afternoon with $17 million guaranteed. He agreed to the deal less than eight hours into free agency. Tannenbaum put no protection in the trade language that would account for the Saints signing Vilma once free agency had started. While the Saints technically did nothing wrong, their behavior violates the spirit of the deal. The Jets should file a grievance with the league office. I don't think anything would come from a grievance, but I do think the Saints put one over on the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMJ Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 You seem confused. Nobody got hosed. What Vilma is worth to them is irrelevant. We knew - most of us, anyway - that the only way the pick was getting upped to a second was if Vilma had played so well that the Saints could not let him hit free agency. They did in fact let him hit free agency. The end. This has been explained to him a million times on these boards and he continues to cry about it. Just let him cry at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMJ Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I still feel the same, and Gary Myers seems to agree: Saints pull a fast one You really want to associate yourself with Gary Myers? The guy is a freaking idiot who despises the Jets. He hasn't said a nice thing about us since he picked up a pen. Here, read his thoughts today on how we've done so far in free agency: The title of the article is: "Big Spending Jets Following a Losing Formula" http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2009/02/28/2009-02-28_bigspending_jets_are_following_a_losing_.html?page=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 There is no reason he can't be again. He is 27/28 and although he has had injury history, nothing serious that would have lingering effects. He is talented. He ran into a string of injuries, the Eagles got frustrated with him, and in turn he had an attitude with them. Hopefully, he does just need a fresh start. But the guy does have talent. I've watched the guy play a lot here in Philly. Jet fans will be pleased. I agree. Thats what I was getting at. He hasnt been playing at that level lately, but a fresh start might be able to get him back there. Hopefully, its with the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMJ Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 You really want to associate yourself with Gary Myers? The guy is a freaking idiot who despises the Jets. He hasn't said a nice thing about us since he picked up a pen. Here, read his thoughts today on how we've done so far in free agency: The title of the article is: "Big Spending Jets Following a Losing Formula" http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2009/02/28/2009-02-28_bigspending_jets_are_following_a_losing_.html?page=0 Oh. Wow. What you posted is FROM his article today. You knew that and STILL associated yourself with Myers? Oy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Oh. Wow. What you posted is FROM his article today. You knew that and STILL associated yourself with Myers? Oy... I can disagree with most of what someone says without disagreeing with all of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I still feel the same, and Gary Myers seems to agree: Saints pull a fast one The Jets and Giants have every right to be livid at the Saints. The Jets will receive a third-round pick from the Saints for Jonathan Vilma as part of the teams' trade a year ago. It would have been a second-round pick if he signed a contract extension before free agency started Friday. If he had signed before Friday, the second-round pick the Saints committed to the Giants for Jeremy Shockey would have gone to the Jets and the Saints would have compensated the Giants with their No. 1 pick in 2010. Vilma started all 16 games for the Saints and was their leading tackler. The Saints always wanted him back and Vilma wanted to be back, but there was no chance the Saints would sign him before Friday and lose their No. 1 pick. Clearly, they were not afraid of losing him on the open market. Or could it be they had a deal already arranged? Vilma signed a five-year, $34 million deal with the Saints on Friday afternoon with $17 million guaranteed. He agreed to the deal less than eight hours into free agency. Tannenbaum put no protection in the trade language that would account for the Saints signing Vilma once free agency had started. While the Saints technically did nothing wrong, their behavior violates the spirit of the deal. The Jets should file a grievance with the league office. I don't think anything would come from a grievance, but I do think the Saints put one over on the Jets. Using Myers for support is usually a sure-fire way of admitting you are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I spent the weekend with a married couple my wife and I are very good friends with, and lifelong eagles fan and life long vikings fan the eagles fan was a starting varsity FS for two years in HS, so I really respect his opinion on secondary play he told me that lito was a more consistent cover guy than samuel, and he was really bummed to see him go. he thinks sheppard and revis will be one of the best duo's in the NFL next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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