***Official JN Jay Cutler Talk - All Jay, All Day*** [Merged 49X]

[Aten]

I dont get the reaction???

Congratulations. You're not retarded.

[Garb]

If it leaked out that Mumbles was trying to trade Cindy and keep Cassel

you don't think Cindylou would be upset!!!!

Face it Joshie F'd up...thought u rooted for jersey..not sure why you give

a crap about him...you complained the whole time he was there

I could not care less about Josh McDaniels. Was never a fan. Look it up. This has nothing to do with Josh. This has to do with how Jay Cutler is handling the situation. Like a spoiled child. Typical "everyone gets a trophy in little league" mentality and seems like the adults are encouraging it.

Brady would be pissed, I'm sure. He wouldn't publically cry like giant Nancy Kerrigan though.

[villain_the_foe]

I dont get the reaction???

Same thing I said when I got it.

[Sperm Edwards]

YYou know how Denver found out how Cutler was good? Because they put him on the field and they played him. Dallas did it with Romo, NE did it with Cassel and Brady etc, etc.

And as, in the past 10+ years, Houston did with Carr, Detroit did with Harrington, Cincy did with Akili Smith, Baltimore did with Boller, Jacksonville did with Leftwich, Arizona did with Josh McCown and Matt Leinart, Buffalo did with Losman, Carolina did with Weinke, Dallas & Chicago did with Hutchinson, Chicago did with McNown, Cleveland did with Couch & Holcomb, KC did with Huard, Miami did with Cleo Lemon, Minnesota did with Tavaris Jackson, New Orleans did with Shuler, the Giants did with Dave Brown, the Jets did with Nagle, Foley, Bollinger, Philly did with Hoying & Ty Detmer, San Diego did with Whelihan & Leaf & Friesz, Seattle did with Mirer, StL did with Banks, Tampa did with Dilfer, King, Simms, and Gradkowski, Tennessee did with Young, Washington did with Ramsey...

Pointing out improbable success stories doesn't make their outcomes probable. Miss on the QB you backed and the whole season was over before it began. In many or most cases, multiple seasons: the season(s) you wasted and the seasons after that when you have to start your search all over again.

I don't think Clemens will be as bad as many think. But the safe money is on Cutler rather than Clemens and a few draft picks that come with maybe a 50/50 success rate of eventually being even decent starters at any position.

[ECURB]

Congratulations. You're not retarded.

But... but... its the #1 pick!

I could have a huge bust potential with an even bigger salary!

Why the heck would I want 2 players of great potential for 1/10 the salary?

[ECURB]

And as, in the past 10+ years, Houston did with Carr, Detroit did with Harrington, Cincy did with Akili Smith, Baltimore did with Boller, Jacksonville did with Leftwich, Arizona did with Josh McCown and Matt Leinart, Buffalo did with Losman, Carolina did with Weinke, Dallas & Chicago did with Hutchinson, Chicago did with McNown, Cleveland did with Couch & Holcomb, KC did with Huard, Miami did with Cleo Lemon, Minnesota did with Tavaris Jackson, New Orleans did with Shuler, the Giants did with Dave Brown, the Jets did with Nagle, Foley, Bollinger, Philly did with Hoying & Ty Detmer, San Diego did with Whelihan & Leaf & Friesz, Seattle did with Mirer, StL did with Banks, Tampa did with Dilfer, King, Simms, and Gradkowski, Tennessee did with Young, Washington did with Ramsey...

Pointing out improbable success stories doesn't make their outcomes probable. Miss on the QB you backed and the whole season was over before it began. In many or most cases, multiple seasons: the season(s) you wasted and the seasons after that when you have to start your search all over again.

I don't think Clemens will be as bad as many think. But the safe money is on Cutler rather than Clemens and a few draft picks that come with maybe a 50/50 success rate of eventually being even decent starters at any position.

Did you have that **** on file? lol

Damn that research would have worn me out for the day!

[SMC]

Agreed. You could have easily explained the scenario and made Cutler feel good or possibly better about the situation. He decided not to take the approach.

I dont understand why these rookie HC's come into situation and not earn their stripes. You obviously have to bee tough and decisive but there is a certain amount of respect you should be trying to gain with your players.

McDaniels is not going to last long as a HC.

McDaniels is an idiot for trying to make the trade. You could give him a pass for that moment of idiocy.

But McDaniels has proved himself in a very short time to be an incompetent or simply bad team manager, a key responsibility of a HC.

McDaniels was suppose to defuse the situation when he met with Cutler over the weekend. Instead, he made it worse. McDaniels has no shot at Cassel anymore, so he's essentially burned bridges with Cutler with no viable alternative.

In other words, a good team manager would have told Cutler, "Yes, I tried to trade for Cassel, but that didn't happen. That's over and its time to move forward, and I want to move forward with you, Jay. You're my guy."

McDaniels may not entirely believe that, but as a good team manager he has to at least say it because there are no QBs out there which are available to McDaniels who could approximate what Cutler or Cassel could do.

People can call Cutler whiney, but McDaniels is doing a real bad job as a HC in this.

[villain_the_foe]

I don't think Clemens will be as bad as many think. But the safe money is on Cutler rather than Clemens and a few draft picks that come with maybe a 50/50 success rate of eventually being even decent starters at any position.

Oh, Im sorry sperm, you must have misunderstood me. I was talking about our GOOD QB Brett Ratliff!

And just because you have more names in your "bust" category doesnt mean that Ratliff cant do it and it doesnt mean that Cutler will come here and light it up.

Im so thankful that he's not coming here so when we see Ratliff I can either be a genius or a dummy....none the less, I'll be glad that a JET got the opportunity.

[Aten]

I don't think Clemens will be as bad as many think.

I think he will be quite a bit better than most people think, and I've never been a Clemens supporter in even the remotest sense. Based on the 2008 PFP projections it really isn't even all that unlikely that he'd be an immediate improvement over the quarterback play we got last year.

[villain_the_foe]

I think he will be quite a bit better than most people think, and I've never been a Clemens supporter in even the remotest sense. Based on the 2008 PFP projections it really isn't even all that unlikely that he'd be an immediate improvement over the quarterback play we got last year.

Clemens wont be on the field people.

[Sperm Edwards]

Oh, Im sorry sperm, you must have misunderstood me. I was talking about our GOOD QB Brett Ratliff!

And just because you have more names in your "bust" category doesnt mean that Ratliff cant do it and it doesnt mean that Cutler will come hear and light it up.

Im so thankful that he's not coming here so when we see Ratliff I can either be a genius or a dummy....none the less, I'll be glad that a JET got the opportunity.

And your 3 great examples: Romo and Brady and Cassel...

Maybe my memory's a little cloudy, but neither Dallas nor New England went into those players' breakout seasons with any one of them as the planned starter. All 3 had a proven veteran starting (ironically the same player in Romo/Brady's cases). Only through that veteran's injury or ineptness were Brady and Romo and Cassel inserted.

Belichick didn't go into the 2001 season with Tom Brady and Michael Bishop.

Parcells didn't go into the 2006 season with Tony Romo and Chad Hutchinson.

Belichick didn't go into the 2008 season with Matt Cassel and Kevin O'Connell.

Yet that is essentially what you are proposing the Jets do. And not even to use Clemens. But for the purpose of trying out an undrafted player who, 3 years after he finished college, has never thrown a pass in a game against a starting NFL defense.

[JustInFudge]

McDaniels is an idiot for trying to make the trade. You could give him a pass for that moment of idiocy.

But McDaniels has proved himself in a very short time to be an incompetent or simply bad team manager, a key responsibility of a HC.

McDaniels was suppose to defuse the situation when he met with Cutler over the weekend. Instead, he made it worse. McDaniels has no shot at Cassel anymore, so he's essentially burned bridges with Cutler with no viable alternative.

In other words, a good team manager would have told Cutler, "Yes, I tried to trade for Cassel, but that didn't happen. That's over and its time to move forward, and I want to move forward with you, Jay. You're my guy."

McDaniels may not entirely believe that, but as a good team manager he has to at least say it because there are no QBs out there which are available to McDaniels who could approximate what Cutler or Cassel could do.

People can call Cutler whiney, but McDaniels is doing a real bad job as a HC in this.

Absolutely. The bottom line is, there arent too many teams that have scene success when the HC and the franchise Qb are not seeing eye to eye.

The strange thing is, anyone with a somewhat open mind that understands loyality, can see why McD was trying to trade for his guy. I am sure Cutler could understand that reasoning and move forward.

[CTM]

I think he will be quite a bit better than most people think, and I've never been a Clemens supporter in even the remotest sense. Based on the 2008 PFP projections it really isn't even all that unlikely that he'd be an immediate improvement over the quarterback play we got last year.

A true FO man...

My issue with Clemens is the regression. I thought he was excellent against Washington (best QB play I've seen here since 2002) but he seems to have gone far down hill since then. By the Kansas City game he was just a diseaster..

[ZachEY]

By the Kansas City game he was just a diseaster..

In fairness, so was the talent around him.

[124]

In fairness, so was the talent around him.

Exactly. The Offensive Line play didn't get any better, it got worse.

He played excellently against Baltimore, Pittsburgh (#1 D in the NFL), Washington (where our D let up 295 yards on the ground alone and still got us into OT) and Miami. He **** the bed in the one nationally televised game of the year (Dallas on Thanksgiving) and ever since then the perception around the NFL is that he's a bum. Because, you know, so many QB's would've done better than 3-4 with that squad.

[dbatesman]

Clemens wont be on the field people.

Link?

[124]

Clemens wont be on the field people.

Then I guess Erik Ainge is going to win the job?

[ZachEY]

Exactly. The Offensive Line play didn't get any better, it got worse.

He played excellently against Baltimore, Pittsburgh (#1 D in the NFL), Washington (where our D let up 295 yards on the ground alone and still got us into OT) and Miami. He **** the bed in the one nationally televised game of the year (Dallas on Thanksgiving) and ever since then the perception around the NFL is that he's a bum. Because, you know, so many QB's would've done better than 3-4 with that squad.

None of my points are to argue that Clemens is good. Just that he's not as awful as he's made out to be and we simply don't know yet.

He had a great 4th against Baltimore, and solid games in the other two, obviously he beat the crap out of Miami.

I never held Dallas against him too much as literally, that team was better than us at every position on the field.

The same way I say you can't support Ratliff on anything but blind faith, you can't completely write off Clemens based on what you've seen at this point.

[villain_the_foe]

Then I guess Erik Ainge is going to win the job?

Over Clemens?? Probably so.

[#27TheDominator]

Exactly. The Offensive Line play didn't get any better, it got worse.

He played excellently against Baltimore, Pittsburgh (#1 D in the NFL), Washington (where our D let up 295 yards on the ground alone and still got us into OT) and Miami. He **** the bed in the one nationally televised game of the year (Dallas on Thanksgiving) and ever since then the perception around the NFL is that he's a bum. Because, you know, so many QB's would've done better than 3-4 with that squad.

Pittsburgh? Seriously? He ****ing sucked in that game. There are thousands of posts by you crucifying Pennington for having better games than that. He also sucked against the Ravens until they were down big. To his credit he got in a rythm and brought them back, but it was one quarter of good football. He may turn out to be good, but don't give me "excellently" against Pittsburgh or Baltimore in '07.

[124]

Over Clemens?? Probably so.

As long as Ratliff doesn't start, we'll win.

[aec4]

Anyone who watched Clemens play and the adjective "excellent" came to mind, except in the context, "Man, does he excellently suck" is just not paying attention.

I don't care if 5 orange pylons were his offensive line. He looked scared. I never ever want to see an athlete look scared, regardless of the situation. That's when I know he's defeated. Sure, an offensive line will make it better for him, but what happens if we're down 10 late in the 4th against the Pats in a game to decide the division? Is he going to be scared then? Prior history says yes.

Now this doesn't mean I think we should play Ratliff either! I think both are a huge risk with our win-now team. We need a QB who won't make mistakes. When the hell has Clemens shown you that? He hasn't. When the hell has Ratliff shown you anything in a meaningful spot?

Maybe that's who we have to go to battle with, I don't know, but I'd explore EVERY SINGLE opportunity.

[SMC]

None of my points are to argue that Clemens is good.

And mine won't either, but people miss some key facts when criticizing Clemens play in 2007.

Mangini did Clemens no favor that year. In his 1st regular season game as a pro against the Ravens, Mangini had Clemens split 1st team snaps with Chad (although Chad was in no condition to play) and didn't tell Clemens he was starting until the pre-game warmups on the field.

After Buffalo wips Chad, the game is out of hand, and the Bills defenders have their ears pinned back ready to blitz, Mangini puts Clemens into the game and he throws a couple of picks.

My biggest issue with Clemens is not 2007, but his failure to capilatize on his golden opportunity in the 2008 OTAs, training camp, & preseason.

I firmly believe that if Clemens had lit it up during that time the Jets would not have traded for Favre and would be set at QB right now.

[ZachEY]

My biggest issue with Clemens is not 2007, but his failure to capilatize on his golden opportunity in the 2008 OTAs, training camp, & preseason.

This is true. There's really no defense for this at all.

I firmly believe that if Clemens had lit it up during that time the Jets would not have traded for Favre and would be set at QB right now.

I can't completely agree here. I think that move was made in large part for the publicity and money it brought in, as well as the hopes of PSL sales, which the economy and ultimate failure of the team undid.

[CTM]

Anyone who watched Clemens play and the adjective "excellent" came to mind, except in the context, "Man, does he excellently suck" is just not paying attention.

I don't care if 5 orange pylons were his offensive line. He looked scared. I never ever want to see an athlete look scared, regardless of the situation. That's when I know he's defeated. Sure, an offensive line will make it better for him, but what happens if we're down 10 late in the 4th against the Pats in a game to decide the division? Is he going to be scared then? Prior history says yes.

Now this doesn't mean I think we should play Ratliff either! I think both are a huge risk with our win-now team. We need a QB who won't make mistakes. When the hell has Clemens shown you that? He hasn't. When the hell has Ratliff shown you anything in a meaningful spot?

Maybe that's who we have to go to battle with, I don't know, but I'd explore EVERY SINGLE opportunity.

Bull crap.. Watch the Washington game again. He was excellent, better then Chad ever was as against that kind of pass rush a matter of fact. Excellant

[dbatesman]

Bull crap.. Watch the Washington game again. He was excellent, better then Chad ever was as against that kind of pass rush a matter of fact. Excellant

+1

Where you been, Chan? We need more rationality around here.

[CTM]

+1

Where you been, Chan? We need more rationality around here.

New job. I work for a living again

[johnny green balls]

You failed to mention his 57 TD's in his first 37 games, but that's understandable. He's way off the mark from crappola Peyton Manning, who had 57 TD's in his first 36 games.

Manning, by the way, started out 3-13 with an NFL-leading 28 interceptions in his first 16 games. The Colts were fools to not cut bait at that time. Fools, I tell you.

Troy Aikman's first 3 seasons (38 games):

31 TD's

46 interceptions (that's 9 more than Cutler despite attempting 165 fewer passes)

14-24 record

Clearly, Dallas should have gone with Steve Walsh.

Steve Young's first couple of seasons with Tampa Bay (19 games):

11 TD's

21 INT"s

3-16 record

The Bucs were right to get rid of him. Vinny was simply the awesomist after they traded Young away.

If Cutler is available to us (which he probably isn't), we go get him. Our next two firsts and any QB's they want from our roster - I would do that in my sleep.

I simply do not understand your disdain for this player. We don't even have to go through those first 2-3 years' growing pains with a new NFL QB. Denver already took care of that. He's not the best QB in the NFL. But he's plenty good & is a sure thing who is likely only going to get better. Right now we have two enormous question-marks and people want to draft another one even rawer the two we have.

Frankly, we should have taken him when we had the chance. Now that we (potentially) get a 2nd chance on an error in drafting judgment people are advocating keeping Kellen Clemens, Brett Ratliff, Erik Ainge and/or drafting Mark Sanchez who (with some luck) is 3 years away from being a solid NFL starter?

Young, NFL-ready franchise QB's don't grow on trees. Suddenly, one actually is. And people are still saying, "Meh. No thanks."

POTY.

Two rules:

(1) If someone asks you if you are a God, you say yes!

(2) If a franchise QB is on the block, you get him.

[afosomf]

POTY.

Two rules:

(1) If someone asks you if you are a God, you say yes!

(2) If a franchise QB is on the block, you get him.

pat fans fear we get him...the div is ours..i believe it

Do it nowTanny

[SMC]

I can't completely agree here. I think that move was made in large part for the publicity and money it brought in, as well as the hopes of PSL sales, which the economy and ultimate failure of the team undid.

Publicity? Likely

Money brought in and PSL sales? A myth.

The NFL is a communist country. All those extra No. 4 merchandizing was money that went to the entire NFL with the Jets only getting back it's alotted percentage. The PSLs were 2 years away with the acquisition of a QB turning 39. Even with a booming economy the Jets would be hard pressed to claim Favre as a PSL selling point where even under the best case scenario Favre would not be playing in the new stadium.

Woody got enamored with the thought of Brett Favre on the team, the new face of the franchise. But Chad winning the starting job was likely something that Tannenbaum didn't want. Tannenbaum would look good if Clemens had become the unquestioned starter in 2008 by winning the job. He failed to do that.

[aec4]

Bull crap.. Watch the Washington game again. He was excellent, better then Chad ever was as against that kind of pass rush a matter of fact. Excellant

OK, this just devalued your opinion in my eyes. 23-42 for 226 is EXCELLENT?!? I remember watching the game and thinking.. my god, is this guy bad.

[Garb]

pat fans fear we get him...the div is ours..i believe it

Do it nowTanny

I'm scared out of my mind. Yup, because if you beleive it - darn, it has to be true. Your track record is impeccable. I'm just waiting on the perverbial "final nail in the coffin" - the famous tick!

[JustInFudge]

Exactly. The Offensive Line play didn't get any better, it got worse.

He played excellently against Baltimore, Pittsburgh (#1 D in the NFL), Washington (where our D let up 295 yards on the ground alone and still got us into OT) and Miami. He **** the bed in the one nationally televised game of the year (Dallas on Thanksgiving) and ever since then the perception around the NFL is that he's a bum. Because, you know, so many QB's would've done better than 3-4 with that squad.

I would also like to point out that Schotty and Mangini had Clemens handcuffed like I have never seen before.

There games plans were so retardedly vanilla and predictable that it was nearly impossible for him to succeed.

I can remember watching those games and yelling at the TV for them to just let him air it out. He has this big arm and they refused to let him open things up. We had him throwing every short ****ty route in the book. Our coaching staff didnt nothing to help him out and make him feel comfortable.

[CTM]

OK, this just devalued your opinion in my eyes. 23-42 for 226 is EXCELLENT?!? I remember watching the game and thinking.. my god, is this guy bad.

Then you don't have a clue as to what you were watching. Quoting stats is simplistic and not really worthy of further discussion, but you must forget the relentless pass rush, the sure fire long TD that leon dropped, the amount of yards and first downs Kellen picked up with his feet, the standing strong in the pocket only to get clobbered several times.

In fact, he was the top QB of that week by FO's measurement, which didn't even account for dropped passes..

[afosomf]

I'm scared out of my mind. Yup, because if you beleive it - darn, it has to be true. Your track record is impeccable. I'm just waiting on the perverbial "final nail in the coffin" - the famous tick!

the tick will come when trade is made

I predicted in may08 both the janks and Mess would be watching from outside

and would not make playoffs...use the $55 search feature;)

you should be scared, jets getting a real pro bowl QB. will make jets AFC East

champs in 2009

i trust you will pray that Cutler becomes a jet.