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***Official JN Jay Cutler Talk - All Jay, All Day*** [Merged 49X]


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Do you want Cutler?  

22 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want Cutler?

    • Yes
      110
    • No
      47


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yup and that little KFFL blurb is really good news for the Jets IF we really are serious about trading for Cutler...who else is in the mix, Detroit?

The talk was Detriot, TB and NYJ.

Seems if one is out then the other 2 have a shot.

Make it happen Tanny!!!

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And you have a defensive minded coach who helped win a SB with Trent freakin Dilfer at QB.

What is more valuable to Rex Ryan? A shutdown corner or a QB?

You don't trade a player. You trade picks. You don't weaken one area to strengthen another. That defeats the purpose of making the trade.

Agree 100%. As Sperm said this will never happen anyways because of the 6M roster bonus, plus as Klecko said Rex is a Defensive guy so there's no way in the world he trades his best defensive player on the team. There's no need to keep bringing up this scenario.

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You're right, but those guys don't need to be mentioned. PICKS,man, these fools love PICKS,Picks and Clemens, done.Absolutely no need to throw Leon in there or Revis. Picks are more important to these guys. They want to "build their team" I'd give 5 picks for Cutler, but no # 1's. Then you throw in Clemens and you're down to 4. Grab Bey,Maclin, or whoever a RB and a blocking TE, call it a day.

Do you think Denver would take our 2,3,5.6 and Clemens, I say hellll yes!

We leave draft day with Cutler, a #17 WR, Our magic 4 at RB, and a 7 round blocking TE. Plus we still lurk around for UFA's and guy's getting cut.

BOOM< worst to First, just like that.

Everything you are saying is completely crazy. It's going to take two first rounders just to get ahead of Detroit's 20+33.

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That does nto matter... the point is 1st round QBs are risky...

Ryan Leaf had a ton of talent and couldnt get it done... should we exclude him because he was talented and it just didnt work out?

Michael Vick is a bust... he started 4 seasons worth of games... not what you want from a 1st round QB...

Oh I agree with you a 100% on the overall premise. I'd give up 2 first rounders for Cutler. I just don't agree with Vick being labeled a bust. 3 years is the average life span for an NFL Player and after 4 years teams lose a lot of good players due to FA. So the 4+ years on the team doesn't affect my judgement.

The "bust" label is very subjective. To me, a bust is somone that is unproductive and/or injury prone while with the team. You certainly can't say Vick was unproductive, and as you said started 67 games. I think people put too much emphasis on how high a player was picked. It seems that any player picked in the top 10 has to be a superstar or they are a bust. To me thats crazy. Look at our own Keyshawn Johnson. I don't think anyone here would call him a bust, but he certainly wasn't a superstar and IIRC was here only 4 years before being traded.

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Oh I agree with you a 100% on the overall premise. I'd give up 2 first rounders for Cutler. I just don't agree with Vick being labeled a bust. 3 years is the average life span for an NFL Player and after 4 years teams lose a lot of good players due to FA. So the 4+ years on the team doesn't affect my judgement.

The "bust" label is very subjective. To me, a bust is somone that is unproductive and/or injury prone while with the team. You certainly can't say Vick was unproductive, and as you said started 67 games. I think people put too much emphasis on how high a player was picked. It seems that any player picked in the top 10 has to be a superstar or they are a bust. To me thats crazy. Look at our own Keyshawn Johnson. I don't think anyone here would call him a bust, but he certainly wasn't a superstar and IIRC was here only 4 years before being traded.

Keyshawn was a top 10 WR in a league that had over 60 starting WR's. When you're a WR who's been in the league 4 years and you make the pro bowl in years 3 and 4, you're a superstar.

I generally agree with the rest of what you're saying, but consider that when you take a kid very high and he isn't all that, you've passed on a lot of others who turned into better players; and some of them were great players. High picks are also afforded more chances and benefits of the doubt. They can fail for a couple of years & still get chance after chance to start. Then on top of all that, he's getting paid like an established, above-average, NFL veteran. If you're drafted at the very top, you're instantly one of the highest-paid players in the NFL before you've attended your first NFL practice. In terms of other draftees and cap space, you've passed up on other players that would have helped your team.

By comparison, a 7th rounder won't make it that far; he'll just get cut. Plus there's that other thing: there really isn't much talent left to draft at that point anyway. They don't eat up any cap room if they're busts, and even if they stick around for a year, their salaries aren't preventing you from signing a bigger-name FA who is far better.

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Oh I agree with you a 100% on the overall premise. I'd give up 2 first rounders for Cutler. I just don't agree with Vick being labeled a bust. 3 years is the average life span for an NFL Player and after 4 years teams lose a lot of good players due to FA. So the 4+ years on the team doesn't affect my judgement.

The "bust" label is very subjective. To me, a bust is somone that is unproductive and/or injury prone while with the team. You certainly can't say Vick was unproductive, and as you said started 67 games. I think people put too much emphasis on how high a player was picked. It seems that any player picked in the top 10 has to be a superstar or they are a bust. To me thats crazy. Look at our own Keyshawn Johnson. I don't think anyone here would call him a bust, but he certainly wasn't a superstar and IIRC was here only 4 years before being traded.

Vick is a bust.. he was a VERy highly drafted QB that never won a SB with the team... only started 4 seasons worth of games and that team has now spend another VERY high #1 pick on another QB...

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Vick is a bust.. he was a VERy highly drafted QB that never won a SB with the team... only started 4 seasons worth of games and that team has now spend another VERY high #1 pick on another QB...

so by your definition

a QB could get drafted in 1st rd, get killed in a car wreck and be labeled

a bust

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Buccaneers | Cutler likely out of team's reach

Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:30:38 -0700

Rick Stroud, of the St. Petersburg Times, reports Denver Broncos QB Jay Cutler may be out of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers' reach. Buccaneers general manager Mark Dominik has not talked to Denver since the failed attempt to execute a three-way deal. It is believed it will take a first-round pick in the 2009 NFL Draft to land Cutler. The Buccaneers have the No. 19 overall pick in the draft, but they do not have a second-round pick.

If I were Denver I'd want a viable QB in return. That's why I think Cleveland would be in any mix.

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Vick is a bust.. he was a VERy highly drafted QB that never won a SB with the team... only started 4 seasons worth of games and that team has now spend another VERY high #1 pick on another QB...

I was never a fan of Vick's as a QB. But Vick was a bust as a pending FA who was extended. He was not a bust as a draft pick.

A bust of a draft pick never really pans out. Or maybe they pan out for a very brief period of time & then go back to sucking again (like Bryan Thomas). Vick panned out well enough for Atlanta to give him a 10-year $130M contract after 4 years on the team.

It is not the responsibility of one player to win the superbowl. If it was, Ben Roethlisberger would have no superbowl rings.

Edited by Sperm Edwards
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so by your definition

a QB could get drafted in 1st rd, get killed in a car wreck and be labeled

a bust

For the sake of arguing that Cutler is worth 2 #1's, yes.

My point is that taking a QB in the 1st round is very risky and fails more often than it works...

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so by your definition

a QB could get drafted in 1st rd, get killed in a car wreck and be labeled

a bust

Is KiJana Carter a bust?

Besides, as Sperm Edwards said, Vick was not a bust as a draft pick. But he was most definately a free agent signing bust.

Edited by SMC
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Is KiJana Carter a bust?

Besides, as Sperm Edwards said, Vick was not a bust as a draft pick. But he was most definately a free agent signing bust.

He was a bust of a draft pick...

Where he was drafted for a QB... you are expecting a decade of good service from that QB... not to have to spend another pick on a QB...

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Yes. He went to Penn State so he wasn't going to be good anyway. He was either going to be a sucky RB or a team cancer. It is preordained destiny.

Does that make Curt Warner the exception that proves the rule. He was pretty damn good with the Seahawks and was a freakin' rampaging beast in Tecmo Bowl!

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Vick is a bust.. he was a VERy highly drafted QB that never won a SB with the team... only started 4 seasons worth of games and that team has now spend another VERY high #1 pick on another QB...

Well you proved my point about people putting to much emphasis on how high a player is picked and needing be a superstar, or they are a bust. Sperms post hit the nail on the head.

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Keyshawn was a top 10 WR in a league that had over 60 starting WR's. When you're a WR who's been in the league 4 years and you make the pro bowl in years 3 and 4, you're a superstar.

I generally agree with the rest of what you're saying, but consider that when you take a kid very high and he isn't all that, you've passed on a lot of others who turned into better players; and some of them were great players. High picks are also afforded more chances and benefits of the doubt. They can fail for a couple of years & still get chance after chance to start. Then on top of all that, he's getting paid like an established, above-average, NFL veteran. If you're drafted at the very top, you're instantly one of the highest-paid players in the NFL before you've attended your first NFL practice. In terms of other draftees and cap space, you've passed up on other players that would have helped your team.

By comparison, a 7th rounder won't make it that far; he'll just get cut. Plus there's that other thing: there really isn't much talent left to draft at that point anyway. They don't eat up any cap room if they're busts, and even if they stick around for a year, their salaries aren't preventing you from signing a bigger-name FA who is far better.

I never considered KJ a superstar - rather in the Very Good category. Similarly, I considered Klecko a superstar while many considered him Very Good. To me a superstar is one who causes opposing teams to game plan for; a true master at the position. KJ didn't strike me as such a player, but maybe some of that is due to my acrimonity towards him. As far as the Pro Bowl is concerned, that means zilch. The Pro Bowl is a popularity contest, it certainly does not mean you are the best at your position or are a superstar.

I agree with alot of what you said about being a top pick. However, the draft is a complete crapshoot. There are many superstars that were picked out of the top 10, round 2 and lower. Does that mean that the teams who passed on the player made a big mistake not selecting him earlier? That's why I always judge by their productivity and not where they were selected.

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I never considered KJ a superstar - rather in the Very Good category. Similarly, I considered Klecko a superstar while many considered him Very Good. To me a superstar is one who causes opposing teams to game plan for; a true master at the position. KJ didn't strike me as such a player, but maybe some of that is due to my acrimonity towards him. As far as the Pro Bowl is concerned, that means zilch. The Pro Bowl is a popularity contest, it certainly does not mean you are the best at your position or are a superstar.

I agree with alot of what you said about being a top pick. However, the draft is a complete crapshoot. There are many superstars that were picked out of the top 10, round 2 and lower. Does that mean that the teams who passed on the player made a big mistake not selecting him earlier? That's why I always judge by their productivity and not where they were selected.

The draft isn't a complete crapshoot. The last 2-3 rounds are a complete crapshoot. Round 1 picks are scrutinized over & over & you're in a better position to "guess right" there than elsewhere in the draft.

If they were all equal crapshoots, then the blunders of trade-downs that Parcells made in '98 would be the smart move every time.

Or just look at any draft. You're going to find more good players in rounds 1 & 2 than in rounds 6 & 7 every year (even though, with compensatory selections, there are many more picks being made in those later rounds).

But any part of the draft is more of a crapshoot than acquiring an established player. In many cases, you take your chances because those draft picks (outside the top 10) are way less $ on the cap. Sometimes you make a move for an established player & pay them big money, particularly if it's a position where the likely dropoff is so great. Like from Kris Jenkins to Pouha or a rookie, or Jay Cutler to Kellen Clemens/Brett Ratliff or a rookie.

The lesser player on your roster, or the rookie you draft, may be better than that player. But the likelihood of that is small. And if you're running a 3-4 defense you need a real NT. If you're running any kind of offense, you need a good QB no matter how many times someone shouts out the name "Trent Dilfer" at you.

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The draft isn't a complete crapshoot. The last 2-3 rounds are a complete crapshoot. Round 1 picks are scrutinized over & over & you're in a better position to "guess right" there than elsewhere in the draft.

If they were all equal crapshoots, then the blunders of trade-downs that Parcells made in '98 would be the smart move every time.

Or just look at any draft. You're going to find more good players in rounds 1 & 2 than in rounds 6 & 7 every year (even though, with compensatory selections, there are many more picks being made in those later rounds).

But any part of the draft is more of a crapshoot than acquiring an established player. In many cases, you take your chances because those draft picks (outside the top 10) are way less $ on the cap. Sometimes you make a move for an established player & pay them big money, particularly if it's a position where the likely dropoff is so great. Like from Kris Jenkins to Pouha or a rookie, or Jay Cutler to Kellen Clemens/Brett Ratliff or a rookie.

The lesser player on your roster, or the rookie you draft, may be better than that player. But the likelihood of that is small. And if you're running a 3-4 defense you need a real NT. If you're running any kind of offense, you need a good QB no matter how many times someone shouts out the name "Trent Dilfer" at you.

+100

that is why i send a boatload of draftpicks for JC

the question i keep getting is Does Rex want a gunslinger as his QB?

to beat the pats we need one IMO

the ravens model only worked once as they won the only SB they made

that D was very special. Can REX make the Jets D that good, time will tell.

I think JC and REX would bring us a SB within 3 years

then i can die

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