Aten Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Serviceable: 9) Olshansky 10) Keisel 11) Pryce 12) Coleman 13) Smith (AZ) 14) Dockery? Comments? Yes. I'm calling bull**** on Dockett. You don't really know how he plays and just defaulted him to serviceable. T/F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Yes. I'm calling bull**** on Dockett. You don't really know how he plays and just defaulted him to serviceable. T/F. A little of both - I think he's very good in their 4-3, but haven't seen him enough to judge in the 3-4. But what I did see, I didn't really like. Penetrates well but doesn't hold blockers, and their run defense seemed to suffer when they went 3-4. But again, I've only seen a little bit of him, so I could be completely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Starting 3-4 DEs NY: Ellis, Coleman NE: Seymour, Warren PIT: Smith, Keisel Balt: Ngata, Pryce CLE: Williams, Smith Denver: ??? Engleberger? McKinley? KC: ??? McBride/Hali/Dorsey?? SD: Olshansky, Castillo Dallas: [Canty][bowen], Spears AZ: flex 3-4/4-3. Smith, Dockery? Putting those into ranks/tiers, I'd say: Elite: 1) Ngata 2) Seymour 3) Warren 4) Smith (PIT) [if he was still a 3-4 end, Canty would slot in here] Very Good: 5) Castillo 6) Williams 7) Ellis 8) Spears Serviceable: 9) Olshansky 10) Keisel 11) Pryce 12) Coleman 13) Smith (AZ) 14) Dockery? In dire need of replacement: 15) Bowen 16) Smith (CLE) 17-20) The DEs for KC and Den. Comments? ok now give them a letter grade. then grade out the start NT of all 3-4 teams. then let's see our overall d-line's grade compared to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 Ok here we go... a list of current starting 3-4 DE's and their sack totals from last season... JETS Ellis (8 sacks) (3rd best in NFL among 3-4 DE's) Coleman (.5 sacks) Pats Ty Warren (2 sacks) Richard Seymour (8 sacks) Ravens Trevor Pryce (3 sacks) Justin Bannan (11 sacks) Dolphins Kendall Langford (2 sacks) Phillip Merling (2 sacks) Browns Corey Williams (.5 sacks) Shaun Smith (0 sacks) Steelers Aaron Smith (6 sacks) Brett Keisel (9 sacks) Chargers Igor Oshansky (7 sacks) Luis Castillo (2 sacks) Cowboys Marcus Spears (1 sack) Jason Hatcher (1 sack) 49ers Justin Smith (7 sacks) Ray McDonald (1 sack) Packers - Switching to 3-4 now... not sure if Campman will be the De still at only 265lbs... Aaron Kampman (9.5 sacks) Mike MOntgomery (2.5 sacks) Cheifs - Switching to 3-4 now... Turk McBride (0 sacks) Tamba Hali (3 sacks) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 ok now give them a letter grade. then grade out the start NT of all 3-4 teams. then let's see our overall d-line's grade compared to others. Thats a lot of work! Someone beat me to the list... damn it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I'd take Castillo over everyone on that list sans the top 3. Nice to see Igor getting some love though, I've always liked his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 Ok here we go... a list of current starting 3-4 DE's and their sack totals from last season... JETS Ellis (8 sacks) (3rd best in NFL among 3-4 DE's) Coleman (.5 sacks) Pats Ty Warren (2 sacks) Richard Seymour (8 sacks) Ravens Trevor Pryce (3 sacks) Justin Bannan (11 sacks) Dolphins Kendall Langford (2 sacks) Phillip Merling (2 sacks) Browns Corey Williams (.5 sacks) Shaun Smith (0 sacks) Steelers Aaron Smith (6 sacks) Brett Keisel (9 sacks) Chargers Igor Oshansky (7 sacks) Luis Castillo (2 sacks) Cowboys Marcus Spears (1 sack) Jason Hatcher (1 sack) 49ers Justin Smith (7 sacks) Ray McDonald (1 sack) Packers - Switching to 3-4 now... not sure if Campman will be the De still at only 265lbs... Aaron Kampman (9.5 sacks) Mike MOntgomery (2.5 sacks) Cheifs - Switching to 3-4 now... Turk McBride (0 sacks) Tamba Hali (3 sacks) I added the cheifs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 as Barton said the other day; "Our D-line still sucks" Ellis and Coleman are way below average these days Ellis is above average and Coleman is slightly below average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Thats a lot of work! Someone beat me to the list... damn it! come on.....you don't have anhything els eto do right now anyway. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Pats; Ty Warren, Richard Seymour Dallas; Cris Canty, Marcus Spears Giants; Justin Tuck, Osi U 49ers; Justin Smith Ravens; Trevor Pryce, H. Nagata Steelers; Aaron Smith, there's 10 3/4 DE's who are better than or at least as good AS our DE's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 Pats; Ty Warren, Richard Seymour Dallas; Cris Canty, Marcus Spears Giants; Justin Tuck, Osi U 49ers; Justin Smith Ravens; Trevor Pryce, H. Nagata Steelers; Aaron Smith, there's 10 3/4 DE's who are better than or at least as good AS our DE's Giants dont run a 3-4 So thats 8 according to you that are better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bergen Jet Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Giants dont run a 3-4 So thats 8 according to you that are better... 7... Canty isn't a 3-4 DE anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 idk why you guys are so down on ellis. the guy has been one of the better de's in the league. and he's been playing next to dt's who weren't so great. ellis is, imo, one of the better 3-4 de's in the league. coleman is average but that's ok...you can't have a pro-bowler at every damn position. jenkins was one of the best nt's last year also. our line is in the top half of 3-4 line sin the league. and i have to say the our lb'ers are now look to be one the best. our secondary is largely improved with sheppard and moving lowery to nickel. leonhar dis an upgrade also. couple that with the fact that we "should" be getting alot more pressure on the qb with the new scheme....and we should have a defense that looks alot more dominating this year. and last year we were pretty good at stopping the run until the second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bergen Jet Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Giants dont run a 3-4 So thats 8 according to you that are better... Oh and another thing... most of the list are tandems. How would Ellis look opposite or Ngata? How would Ngata look opposite Coleman? Ngata would still be a beast but you could absolutely 100% scheme against him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 7... Canty isn't a 3-4 DE anymore. Ellis is looking better and better... and your right he would look fantastic with a playmaker on the other side... heck even a decent OLB on the other side would help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Pats; Ty Warren, Richard Seymour Dallas; Cris Canty, Marcus Spears Giants; Justin Tuck, Osi U 49ers; Justin Smith Ravens; Trevor Pryce, H. Nagata Steelers; Aaron Smith, there's 10 3/4 DE's who are better than or at least as good AS our DE's Giants: Do not run a 3/4 Cowboys: Chris Canty is no longer on the team Ravens: Haloti Ngata is a NT, Justin Bannan is the other DE 49ers: Justin Smith? Bwahahahahahhahaha Lets just look at the 2008 Ravens DE's (Pryce & Bannan) to the Jets' (Ellis & Coleman). I'll take the Jets pair anyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 Giants: Do not run a 3/4 Cowboys: Chris Canty is no longer on the team Ravens: Haloti Ngata is a NT, Justin Bannan is the other DE 49ers: Justin Smith? Bwahahahahahhahaha Lets just look at the 2008 Ravens DE's (Pryce & Bannan) to the Jets' (Ellis & Coleman). I'll take the Jets pair anyday. Make that 5... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 The starting DLine is not the problem. I disagree with the notion that Ellis & Coleman are below average. They can and do get the job done. The problem is the lack of depth at NT. When Jenkins was out or got hurt, the line fell apart for the most part. Also, when he got hurt and Mangini decided to have the LBs in coverage and Rhodes blitz from 20 yards out, that was also a problem. Getting depth on the DLine will serve the Jets well. There's no one out there quality wise that would be an upgrade over Coleman and Ellis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 The starting DLine is not the problem. I disagree with the notion that Ellis & Coleman are below average. They can and do get the job done. The problem is the lack of depth at NT. When Jenkins was out or got hurt, the line fell apart for the most part. Also, when he got hurt and Mangini decided to have the LBs in coverage and Rhodes blitz from 20 yards out, that was also a problem. Getting depth on the DLine will serve the Jets well. There's no one out there quality wise that would be an upgrade over Coleman and Ellis. There is this FA named CJ Mosley that would be a great backup NT addition... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 The starting DLine is not the problem. I disagree with the notion that Ellis & Coleman are below average. They can and do get the job done. The problem is the lack of depth at NT. When Jenkins was out or got hurt, the line fell apart for the most part. Also, when he got hurt and Mangini decided to have the LBs in coverage and Rhodes blitz from 20 yards out, that was also a problem. Getting depth on the DLine will serve the Jets well. There's no one out there quality wise that would be an upgrade over Coleman and Ellis. Oh and I have a hunch Rex might just scheme differently with Jenkins out... run a 4-3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I like Shawn Ellis and I believe as Ellis goes so goes the Jets-my only problem with him is he has been disappearing for chunks of the last few seasons-look at what he did and didn't do from the 2st half of last season to the 2nd half... http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=2143 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 There is this FA named CJ Mosley that would be a great backup NT addition... Its going to be interesting to see how Rex goes after a back-up NT for Kris, most likely I'd say he will find one via the draft, but whom? And I wouldn't think they'd use anything earlier than a 4th on one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bergen Jet Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Ravens: Haloti Ngata is a NT, Justin Bannan is the other DE Leave it to my nephew to make me look stupid. How did I not only miss that the first time but ran with Ngata in my next post. Teach me to post with a 102 fever while fighting the flu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Leave it to my nephew to make me look stupid. How did I not only miss that the first time but ran with Ngata in my next post. Teach me to post with a 102 fever while fighting the flu. Go to bed Uncle. BTW, here are the Top 10 NT's in the Draft: B.J. Raji, Boston College (6-1, 325) Ron Brace, Boston College (6-3, 326) Dorell Scott, Clemson (6-3, 310) Sammie Lee Hill, Stillman (6-4, 331) Myron Pryor, Kentucky (6-0, 310) Terrance Taylor, Michigan (6-0, 306) Chris Baker, Hampton (6-2, 326) Terrance Knighton, Temple (6-3, 324) Roy Miller, Texas (6-1, 310) Antonio Dixon, Miami (6-3, 324) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 I like Shawn Ellis and I believe as Ellis goes so goes the Jets-my only problem with him is he has been disappearing for chunks of the last few seasons-look at what he did and didn't do from the 2st half of last season to the 2nd half... http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=2143 The whole defense did... the rest of the teams we played figured out the scheme and Mangini never adjusted... then with 3 or 4 weeks left he completely changed the entire defense and really screwed things up... Stop using that silly argument.. I posted in a thread about a month ago breaking down Ellis in December and historically its one of his best months... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdropOFvenom Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 7... Canty isn't a 3-4 DE anymore. Neither is Ngata. He's a NT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 BTW, here are the Top 10 NT's in the Draft: B.J. Raji, Boston College (6-1, 325) Ron Brace, Boston College (6-3, 326) Dorell Scott, Clemson (6-3, 310) Sammie Lee Hill, Stillman (6-4, 331) Myron Pryor, Kentucky (6-0, 310) Terrance Taylor, Michigan (6-0, 306) Chris Baker, Hampton (6-2, 326) Terrance Knighton, Temple (6-3, 324) Roy Miller, Texas (6-1, 310) Antonio Dixon, Miami (6-3, 324) Wow. It's been a while since so many DLine prospects had such prototypical NT measurements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 That did not take long... Both HC and DC from the Ravens... Leonhard Rhodes Sheppard Revis Thomas/anyone other than Gholston /Scott Harris Pace Coleman Jenkins Ellis Lookin good so far... lookin good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 Out of 22 total 3-4 DE starters in the NFL... (including Ellis and Coleman) Better than Ellis... Richard Seymour (8 sacks) Justin Bannan (11 sacks) Brett Keisel (9 sacks) Igor Oshansky (7 sacks) Better than Coleman Ty Warren (2 sacks) Richard Seymour (8 sacks) Trevor Pryce (3 sacks) Justin Bannan (11 sacks) Kendall Langford (2 sacks) Aaron Smith (6 sacks) Brett Keisel (9 sacks) Igor Oshansky (7 sacks) Justin Smith (7 sacks) Aaron Kampman (9.5 sacks) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 1 sack in the 2nd half of 2008-7 the first half Call me crazy but Ellis is one of my favorite Jets. Sure, he's hot and cold sometimes but bottom line in terms of production I'm more than happy with 60 tackles, 8 sacks, 2 FF, 1 TD from my 3-4 DE. He practically won a game for us last year (vs. Bills) and another the year before (vs. Pittsburgh). Did he slide in the second half of last year? Sure, but take that in context. Our ENTIRE defense collapsed ala New York Mets in the second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I'd take Castillo over everyone on that list sans the top 3. Nice to see Igor getting some love though, I've always liked his game. So . . . you're saying I should move him up 1 spot, ahead of Aaron Smith? That's a lot of words for that little point And I think Smith is vastly underrated - I'd take him over Castillo, for just next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Leave it to my nephew to make me look stupid. How did I not only miss that the first time but ran with Ngata in my next post. Teach me to post with a 102 fever while fighting the flu. Except you were right and your nephew was wrong. Ngata plays DE. Kelly Gregg is Balt's NT. Justin Bannan only started due to injury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 Except you were right and your nephew was wrong. Ngata plays DE. Kelly Gregg is Balt's NT. Justin Bannan only started due to injury Dude Ngata is a 345lb NT... he is NOT a DE... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Dude Ngata is a 345lb NT... he is NOT a DE... Dude, watch Baltimore play. Kelly Gregg is Baltimore's starting NT when healthy. He was injured last season, so Ngata shifted inside and Bannan took Ngata's spot at DE. You really can't just look at the player's weight to determine position. BTW, here's a 2008 Ravens season preview - check the depth chart and descriptions out: . . . Defense LDE: Trevor Pryce Two years removed from a 13-sack campaign, but at 33 (in August), must prove he can stay healthy and energized. NT: Kelly Gregg Not a traditional NT. Plays more of an agility-oriented game where his lateral quickness makes him a terrific run stopper. RDE: Haloti Ngata Excellent leverage and improvements in explosiveness have made him a standout blocker-eater. Not a playmaker, though his range is increasing. . . . Although the Ravens use a three-man front, ends Trevor Pryce and Haloti Ngata, as well as nose tackle Kelly Gregg, are more than just blocker-gobblers. When he plays with strength, Pryce can be a punishing pass-rusher. He Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Dude Ngata is a 345lb NT... he is NOT a DE... He's right. When they had their starting lineup in healthy, Ngata plays DE chiefly. He lines up at 0 sometimes, but usually Gregg is their NT when they go to a 3-man line without injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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