JN Mafia Game 2: Dawn of The Dead Edition

[war ensemble]

Well, this is certainly interesting.

[JustInFudge]

Not necessarily. If that scenario plays out, its just as likely that it points towards more experienced players as Zombies. They'd know it would be a wasted opportunity to go after him as he assuredly have doc protection, whereas inexperienced undead players could be ambitious enough to risk going for him in the hopes the Dr. doesn't protect anyone/vicious/exist.

It was an unnecessary role reveal, but I don't see what the zombies would have to gain from it as like you said there was little to no heat on him when he did reveal. Maybe I'm just being naive, but I believe in Harvey Den - Er, Vicious.

Good point on hoping that he doesnt protect, but who is going to be that stupid? Vic already told us he was a detective.

So if Vic survives the night, he has to be a target for lynch IMO. And say he investigates an innocent, then what is he going to do to save himself? He cant guarantee us a successful lynch.

In a way he almost becomes more dangerous as the game goes on...

[Vicious89x]

Here's the deal. If you're the doctor, protect. If you dont' believe me dont'. Then EY can tell you "You killed the detective dummies" and then you guys are out an investigator. I've said my piece and I'm gonna focus with the game at hand now.

Unvote: Norway

Vote: Woody

[Vicious89x]

Yeah, but its like I said in my other post.

Because it so obvious that he needs to be protected, the mafia might not want to waste a NK on someone they know is being protected.

So then lets say an innocent or worse a doctor turns up dead. Everyone is going to pile on Vic claiming liar and then if he is telling the truth, they would have the town do their dirty work by chopping the head off a detective.

Vic really ****ed us and he isnt that dumb of a guy. He knows this would **** us. Why do I feel like he is lying and how can we find out? Do any of the department store carry lie-detectors?

I appreciate the sentiment JiF. But we all have stupid moments in life, and mine happened to be in this game.

Like I said. I think this conversation is over, believe me or don't. We need to focus on a lynch here. I like your points on Woody and CTM's on Norway. I made my decision on that front

[Vicious89x]

Anyways, I'm out boys. I'm heading to the gym then home. Dont' forget I'm on PST so I might not be on till later.

[shutout]

Good point on hoping that he doesnt protect, but who is going to be that stupid? Vic already told us he was a detective.

So if Vic survives the night, he has to be a target for lynch IMO. And say he investigates an innocent, then what is he going to do to save himself? He cant guarantee us a successful lynch.

In a way he almost becomes more dangerous as the game goes on...

Who's to say we even have a doctor? Or what if its one of the uninvolved players like last game with RJF not protecting JVOR first night?

I wouldn't necessarily use the word stupid, but I could see Irish, WE, or even maybe JVOR overthinking everything.

"They know we know Vic is the detective. They'll definitely be protecting him, lets kill (insert name here)"

"But they'll be expecting us to not try and kill Vic, so they won't protect him, they'll protect Shutout!"

"Yeah, they're not gonna protect Vic cause they assume we assume he'll be protected. Lets take out there detective!"

I wouldn't rule out someone who's never been mafia following that dizzying, too thought out logic.

[shutout]

At this point, regardless of reasoning, we can't focus on why Vicious revealed himself. We can't risk calling him a liar and voting him off in case he's telling the truth, so right now we can only move on and focus on where we're at. We seem to have a consensus top 2 suspects in Woody and Norway. We need to bring the dialogue back to those 2.

BTW still nothing from Woody, and that invitation from Norway to be investigated seemed a bit too brash to me.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

IMO there aren't many ways to confirm Vicious as cop. Role reveal as the cop was the worst scenario for us since he could easily be trying to get the real cop to show face. The other scenarios didn't entail that kind of benefit for the mafia.

1) Even if Vicious gives us good information on a mafia member someone could be sacrificing themselves to make Vicious look clean.

2) Someone counter claims. That muddies the waters, but the benefit is that it gives us a confirmed mafia member one way or the other. A townie should never falsely counter claim because it's sabotage. Therefore a counter claimant is either mafia themselves or Vicious is mafia. We have a lead. The downside is that we run the risk of lynching a cop and the doctor can't protect two people at night, so either way one of them is going to die. The mafia member is taking some risk though as it gives us info on them and maybe their partners. They also sacrifice a member either way.

[JustInFudge]

I appreciate the sentiment JiF. But we all have stupid moments in life, and mine happened to be in this game.

Like I said. I think this conversation is over, believe me or don't. We need to focus on a lynch here. I like your points on Woody and CTM's on Norway. I made my decision on that front

No need to get all sensative, its just a game. Im just having fun and busting chops.

I obviously cant vote you and I still feel good about Woody, but I dont think I buy it, thats all. No big deal. You sensative right now. that why your revealed so early for no reason.

Who's to say we even have a doctor? Or what if its one of the uninvolved players like last game with RJF not protecting JVOR first night?

I wouldn't necessarily use the word stupid, but I could see Irish, WE, or even maybe JVOR overthinking everything.

"They know we know Vic is the detective. They'll definitely be protecting him, lets kill (insert name here)"

"But they'll be expecting us to not try and kill Vic, so they won't protect him, they'll protect Shutout!"

"Yeah, they're not gonna protect Vic cause they assume we assume he'll be protected. Lets take out there detective!"

I wouldn't rule out someone who's never been mafia following that dizzying, too thought out logic.

I hear ya. Im dizzy.

Anyway, we have to go along with it for now.

[CTM]

agreed with the above few posts.. No votes on vicious for now, lets see what happens..

Focus on Woody/Norway imo.. I'm ok with either but I don't think we should lynch Woody till he shows up and gets a chance to defend..

Does anyone else have a third candidate?

[shutout]

No need to get all sensative, its just a game. Im just having fun and busting chops.

I obviously cant vote you and I still feel good about Woody, but I dont think I buy it, thats all. No big deal. You sensative right now. that why your revealed so early for no reason.

I hear ya. Im dizzy.

Anyway, we have to go along with it for now.

Agreed. I think Woody's trying to cover himself up now by disappearing. This way he can call his earlier post (the one almost immediately after you accused him) of being coincidence since he's been so busy he's barely had time to get involved in the game.

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

Good point on hoping that he doesnt protect, but who is going to be that stupid? Vic already told us he was a detective.

So if Vic survives the night, he has to be a target for lynch IMO. And say he investigates an innocent, then what is he going to do to save himself? He cant guarantee us a successful lynch.

In a way he almost becomes more dangerous as the game goes on...

Why? That just means he was doc protected, other than being scum. We won't know anything more than we do now.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

agreed with the above few posts.. No votes on vicious for now, lets see what happens..

Focus on Woody/Norway imo.. I'm ok with either but I don't think we should lynch Woody till he shows up and gets a chance to defend..

Does anyone else have a third candidate?

What i'm finding effective is determining who I'm having a tough time getting reads for. What are your thoughts on Thor and War Ensemble?

[Norway'sWaddlingMarmaloof]

At this point, regardless of reasoning, we can't focus on why Vicious revealed himself. We can't risk calling him a liar and voting him off in case he's telling the truth, so right now we can only move on and focus on where we're at. We seem to have a consensus top 2 suspects in Woody and Norway. We need to bring the dialogue back to those 2.

BTW still nothing from Woody, and that invitation from Norway to be investigated seemed a bit too brash to me.

Well, I have nothing to hide is all. I'm all townie. But I see the points made about not calling to be investiagted, even if you are innocent, as it doesn't help us all that much.

How about some of the other less active players? Where you be at?

[CTM]

What i'm finding effective is determining who I'm having a tough time getting reads for. What are your thoughts on Thor and War Ensemble?

My thoughts on them is that aren't contributing and should be looked into if we don't get a hit soon..

[CTM]

^^^ they aren't

[JustInFudge]

Why? That just means he was doc protected, other than being scum. We won't know anything more than we do now.

Thats a valid point.

If there isnt a kill, we know he was telling the truth and we have a doctor.

If he survives, I still think he becomes a suspect by default.

[shutout]

Well, I have nothing to hide is all. I'm all townie. But I see the points made about not calling to be investiagted, even if you are innocent, as it doesn't help us all that much.

How about some of the other less active players? Where you be at?

I've voted for woody. I think he shot himself in the foot by responding so quickly to JiF and has headed for the hills.

I don't trust Thor, but he did this in the last game too. Same with Irish, who also conveniently lives on the other side of the Atlantic and subsequently has a time zone based excuse.

Doggin mentioned he wasn't gonna be around today and I don't know where the Crusher has gone all of a sudden. War I assume had school and will be getting more active into this evening. If not, he may be our next best suspect

[Irish Jet]

Who's to say we even have a doctor? Or what if its one of the uninvolved players like last game with RJF not protecting JVOR first night?

I wouldn't necessarily use the word stupid, but I could see Irish, WE, or even maybe JVOR overthinking everything.

"They know we know Vic is the detective. They'll definitely be protecting him, lets kill (insert name here)"

"But they'll be expecting us to not try and kill Vic, so they won't protect him, they'll protect Shutout!"

"Yeah, they're not gonna protect Vic cause they assume we assume he'll be protected. Lets take out there detective!"

I wouldn't rule out someone who's never been mafia following that dizzying, too thought out logic.

Thanks for that. LOL

It's a very confusing situation but on the plus side, it affects both the Mafia and the town. Basically it's up to the Mafia to see if they want to call what could be a huge bluff from a doctor.

I actually do trust Vic in what he is saying. The move was retarded regardless but I can't see a Mafia player trying to pull a stunt quite like that.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Thanks for that. LOL

It's a very confusing situation but on the plus side, it affects both the Mafia and the town. Basically it's up to the Mafia to see if they want to call what could be a huge bluff from a doctor.

I actually do trust Vic in what he is saying. The move was retarded regardless but I can't see a Mafia player trying to pull a stunt quite like that.

That's what I thought originally, but like I stated, if Vicious was mafia his alignment was going to be found out in the night phase. By doing this, he actually has the chance to buy some time.

[shutout]

Thanks for that. LOL

It's a very confusing situation but on the plus side, it affects both the Mafia and the town. Basically it's up to the Mafia to see if they want to call what could be a huge bluff from a doctor.

I actually do trust Vic in what he is saying. The move was retarded regardless but I can't see a Mafia player trying to pull a stunt quite like that.

Hey it was a compliment. I said you're hypothetically too smart for your own good.

Plus you're the same guy who began his work in this thread by saying Shaun of the Dead is better than both Dawn of the Dead and Hot Fuzz. You're clearly a person of interest and highly suspicious based on those statements alone

[Bleedin Green]

Good point on hoping that he doesnt protect, but who is going to be that stupid? Vic already told us he was a detective.

So if Vic survives the night, he has to be a target for lynch IMO. And say he investigates an innocent, then what is he going to do to save himself? He cant guarantee us a successful lynch.

In a way he almost becomes more dangerous as the game goes on...

I seem to be missing something here. If another player turns up dead, why would that make Vicious a liar and/or a target for lynch?

[JustInFudge]

I seem to be missing something here. If another player turns up dead, why would that make Vicious a liar and/or a target for lynch?

I dont konw if I am explaining myself properly.

If he doesnt turn up dead, why didnt the mafia NK him? Maybe because he is one of their own?

Or is that just stupid logic? Im just thinking out loud here.

[Bleedin Green]

I dont konw if I am explaining myself properly.

If he doesnt turn up dead, why didnt the mafia NK him? Maybe because he is one of their own?

Or is that just stupid logic? Im just thinking out loud here.

I suppose that is one possibility, but I think its dangerous to make that assumption. Its just as likely (if not moreso) that if he stays alive it means the mafia is playing conservative and trying to go for a "sure thing" kill of someone else rather than lose a nightkill on the risk that he could be protected by the doctor. More than anything, I think we'll have to make our judgment on Vicious based on how his info works out for us.

Even if he is mafia, its not like he's the only one, so we have the benefit of being able to go after others and giving him time to prove himself truthful. Maybe if a few days from now he hasn't provided us with any useful info or worse yet, gave us something that was proven to be false, then it will be time to reevaluate that stance.

[shutout]

I dont konw if I am explaining myself properly.

If he doesnt turn up dead, why didnt the mafia NK him? Maybe because he is one of their own?

Or is that just stupid logic? Im just thinking out loud here.

But its like you said earlier, if he really is the cop why would the mafia try to NK him?

Pretty much the only ways we'll know for sure is if he finds a zombie and we behead them at his insistence, or we call his bluff and do the deed ourselves. Personally I don't think we can afford to gamble that he is lying now

[Jets Voice of Reason]

I dont konw if I am explaining myself properly.

If he doesnt turn up dead, why didnt the mafia NK him? Maybe because he is one of their own?

Or is that just stupid logic? Im just thinking out loud here.

It's wine in front of me (WIFOM) if i'm not mistaken. But I'm actually expecting Vicious to survive the night. If he's mafia he obviously won't be NKed. If he's innocent, he's got the doctor's protection. I don't want to get more into what should happen in the night phase though. Let the mafia figure it out themselves.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

But its like you said earlier, if he really is the cop why would the mafia try to NK him?

Pretty much the only ways we'll know for sure is if he finds a zombie and we behead them at his insistence, or we call his bluff and do the deed ourselves. Personally I don't think we can afford to gamble that he is lying now

Even if he gives us one member, that doesn't automatically prove his innocence. He's capable of playing a deep game.

[ZachEY]

Norway (3) - CTM, Thor99, JVOR

WoodyPaige (4) - JiF, Irish Jet, shutout, Vicious98x

Vicious89x (1) - Crusher

Thor99 (1) - Norway

With 14 players remaining, it takes 8 to behead.

[shutout]

Even if he gives us one member, that doesn't automatically prove his innocence. He's capable of playing a deep game.

Good point.

I don't want us to get stuck on Vicious right now. Even if we don't all believe him, right now we can't vote for him, its too risky. We're wasting valuable time which we should be using to discuss our other suspects.

Whats your take on Woody JVOR?

[JustInFudge]

Agreed with all the talk that has taken place since my last post. I was just thinking out loud.

We need to get some heat on some folks that arent talking.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Veteran move, and not because it looks like a "rookie mistake". Night Killing inactive players is a classic mafia move - power roles often try to stay under the radar, and at worst you ensure that the kill doesn't provide excess information to the town (why was X killed, who was he pushing for, who was he supporting, etc.).

Got a brief due today and a jewish holiday coming up, so I may be a bit scarce. I've got some nebulous thoughts, though - so try not to lynch anyone til I get back.

Hope Doggin posts soon. I want to see his thoughts on the matter.

[The Crusher]

Isn't this nice. Vic is scummy, but I have to agree that we have no good way to do this until he has a chance to prove himself. unvote; vic for now, but not feeling good about it.

[Vicious89x]

Now I know why JB voted for herself. I'm fed up with this. Everyone vote for me cause I ain't gonna spend the entirety of the gaming defending myself.

[Bleedin Green]

Well I'm glad you see it that way. How do you guys feel about WP? Shutout made a good point and ever since JiF's claim he's basically completely disappeared.

Just caught that I missed this from earlier. As far as WP, the original point had merit and its only gotten more interesting from there. After the back and forth with JiF, he threw another few posts out and then once the topic successfully shifted off of him, that was it. I think he needs to feel the pressure so that at the very least he addresses this whole situation.

Vote: WP

[Vicious89x]

I still say we focus on WP. He's probably giddy as hell with all the distraction this has brought on. If we're not gonna focus on anyone, kill me off, lose your investigator and move on with the show. Otherwise you're gonna have to trust me. With so many players left in the game I'm bound to find innocents. If you keep me in this game it's only to the townies advantage. That's the last defense of myself. I got nothing else to say on the matter.